Master Burn-In/IR/Break In Thread Part II: All Posts Here Only - Page 176 - AVS Forum
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post #5251 of 5267 Old 07-11-2014, 08:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Chise View Post
To be honest Steve I did not believe this myself till one of my friends did a demo. over my house, I was shock, So I got dedicated 20 amp line with Furutech power outlets with in 4 weeks my burn-ins went away on my screen I have a clear crisp picture now, this is step 2 and I have 4 more to go anything else I pm you.
I am an electrical engineer,

Changing the power lines have nothing to do with quality of electricity unless you want to minimize power losses and voltage drop across high current long lines.
This of course depends on the load current which comes nowhere near enough to heavily load the line in a domestic appliances environment.
Low line voltage may fluctuate depends on the time of the day, but that also does not matter anymore because of switching power supplies.

These have absolutely nothing to do with plasma's uneven phosphor decay.
Don't get me started on Audiophiles... their "theories" are a joke.

So forget the whole "clean electricity" rubbish about TV picture quality (and audio) unless your TV is against a wall and is VERY susceptible to magnetic field of a fully loaded line in the wall or of an extension cord lying near the screen.


Trust in pixel flipper!

Last edited by James Freeman; 07-11-2014 at 08:31 PM.
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post #5252 of 5267 Old 07-11-2014, 10:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James Freeman View Post
I am an electrical engineer,

Changing the power lines have nothing to do with quality of electricity unless you want to minimize power losses and voltage drop across high current long lines.
This of course depends on the load current which comes nowhere near enough to heavily load the line in a domestic appliances environment.
Low line voltage may fluctuate depends on the time of the day, but that also does not matter anymore because of switching power supplies.

These have absolutely nothing to do with plasma's uneven phosphor decay.
Don't get me started on Audiophiles... their "theories" are a joke.

So forget the whole "clean electricity" rubbish about TV picture quality (and audio) unless your TV is against a wall and is VERY susceptible to magnetic field of a fully loaded line in the wall or of an extension cord lying near the screen.


Trust in pixel flipper!
Can't poorly designed power supplies in various consumer devices impart some ripple in the circuit they are connected to? Unfortunately I don't have 100x probe for my scope of I'd just check it myself. Not saying it makes a difference, a well designed circuit is going to be pretty well regulated on the DC side, but I thought any ripple going into the transformer that feeds any outputs like in an amplifier could make difference, even if it's small.

I know switch mode puts out some nasty RF that can really mess with stuff. But anyone designing a switcher in audio products should be able pick the switching frequency that least affects anything else in the product.

Just learning here.

Regards,
Steve

Regards, (for the vast majority of people :-p)

Steve
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post #5253 of 5267 Old 07-11-2014, 11:05 PM
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You could scope the dc rail but I doubt you'd see anything but a flat line,
unless you bought the PSU (any chinese kind) on ebay for 3.99$.

I agree that poorly designed switcher can wreak havoc in audio equipment (RF, harmonics, oscillation, ripple, etc...).
Although I trust electronic engineers whom by now should have perfected the art of switching.

Definitely closer to the heart of the beast, but still nothing to do with phosphor decay and IR once again...
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post #5254 of 5267 Old Yesterday, 06:37 AM
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Originally Posted by James Freeman View Post
I am an electrical engineer,

Changing the power lines have nothing to do with quality of electricity unless you want to minimize power losses and voltage drop across high current long lines.
This of course depends on the load current which comes nowhere near enough to heavily load the line in a domestic appliances environment.
Low line voltage may fluctuate depends on the time of the day, but that also does not matter anymore because of switching power supplies.

These have absolutely nothing to do with plasma's uneven phosphor decay.
Don't get me started on Audiophiles... their "theories" are a joke.

So forget the whole "clean electricity" rubbish about TV picture quality (and audio) unless your TV is against a wall and is VERY susceptible to magnetic field of a fully loaded line in the wall or of an extension cord lying near the screen.


Trust in pixel flipper!
Slim I don't give dam if don't believe it and big **** you have degree wow I'm really scared.
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post #5255 of 5267 Old Yesterday, 09:49 AM
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Originally Posted by James Freeman View Post
You could scope the dc rail but I doubt you'd see anything but a flat line,
unless you bought the PSU (any chinese kind) on ebay for 3.99$.

I agree that poorly designed switcher can wreak havoc in audio equipment (RF, harmonics, oscillation, ripple, etc...).
Although I trust electronic engineers whom by now should have perfected the art of switching.

Definitely closer to the heart of the beast, but still nothing to do with phosphor decay and IR once again...
Yeah, I'm a mechanical engineer with a concentration in Mechatronics, I don't usually deal with any AC. Pretty much all DC low voltage unless I need "fake" AC low voltage for something. Only thing I've needed that for was measuring the resistance of a wide band O2 sensor element temperature control.

I need an isolator for my scope as well before I do any thing with AC line voltage. I use an old monster of a BK precision switching lab supply. The floating ground is great for hooking up my RC computerized charger to the computer for logging. Great charger but they didn't do anything for the ground loop created when a power supply and computer share the same ground. Without a usb isolator, PS with floating ground (or negative I guess is more appropriate, but I hardly ever use the feature for its intended function), hacking a BT module into the charger, or using a laptop on battery or powering the charger with a battery, they like to fry the usb-serial board in the charger. If you're lucky anyway, as theoretically it could pull charging current ~20 amps through usb, letting all the magic smoke out.

Anyway, when I finally buy a house I'll still have a dedicated circuit for AV gear, with some quality receptacles / power cords. Definitely won't be using any exotic metal plated stuff though. I use all Signal Cable interconnects/cables/power. About the same cost as Monster stuff, but instead of buying a name I'm buying quality custom cables.

Regards,
Steve

Regards, (for the vast majority of people :-p)

Steve
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post #5256 of 5267 Old Yesterday, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Chise View Post
To be honest Steve I did not believe this myself till one of my friends did a demo. over my house, I was shock, So I got dedicated 20 amp line with Furutech power outlets with in 4 weeks my burn-ins went away on my screen I have a clear crisp picture now, this is step 2 and I have 4 more to go anything else I pm you.
AA Step 2:

Quote:
"Came to believe that a power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity."

I assume you have a very well lubricated Serpent too...
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post #5257 of 5267 Old Yesterday, 12:33 PM
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AA Step 2:




I assume you have a very well lubricated Serpent too...
Well they way I look at this folks on AVS just don't know and they never tried it, and for me, it did not cost me a lot money plus my gear is running fine, do you hear me complaining burn- ins anymore and finally I have not brought a new TV in three years.
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Originally Posted by Chise View Post
Well they way I look at this folks on AVS just don't know and they never tried it, and for me, it did not cost me a lot money plus my gear is running fine, do you hear me complaining burn- ins anymore and finally I have not brought a new TV in three years.
Well to me the 'S' in AVS supposedly stands for 'Science' and when people report remarkable and immaculate cures I must call BS. I don't doubt you have made your personal peace with IR BUT expensive overpriced power cords and such had nothing to do with it.
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post #5259 of 5267 Old Yesterday, 04:28 PM
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Originally Posted by olyteddy View Post
Well to me the 'S' in AVS supposedly stands for 'Science' and when people report remarkable and immaculate cures I must call BS. I don't doubt you have made your personal peace with IR BUT expensive overpriced power cords and such had nothing to do with it.
I don't think so either, but who knows? I sure am not going to install any crazy expensive stuff without proof, nor would I recommend it to anyone, but I can't say it's impossible. Being an engineer and grounded in science and logic I can get pretty close though.

Like I said before, I give all my cable money to signal cable. Very good quality, and last time I checked you could even get silver cables for around 200 bucks. Only problem I had were the interconnects I bought around 2003, the RCAs were super tight, and I ended up slipping the termination wrap on the plug body. Well that and I specified the wrong speaker termination on the amp side of the speaker cables I bought at the same time. But that's totally my fault.

Bought some interconnects a few years ago (cheaper versions from what I had) for a birthday present, and they worked out great for my buddy. I highly recommend them. No frills website or marketing, quality vs price speaks for themselves. Plus you can call and he'll make you just about anything you want.

Also, like I said, I'm not going to hesitate to put my gear on 1 or 2 dedicated circuits, with quality outlets and maybe some kind of extra protection on those circuits just to keep the expensive gear somewhat isolated from the rest of the house/any surge sources.

But quality stuff doesn't mean exotic materials and $$$$$$$$ for me. I have very good hearing, but in a blind test I picked the $200 cables over the multi thousand dollar ones. Someone that can afford that stuff, and buys it, will almost always say it sounds better/looks better. How could you not when you drop a couple grand on a cable like HDMI that only carries digital? Digital is digital, as long as the terminations and the contacts are good I don't care if the cable is made up of rhodium plated solid gold strands all encased in 2 inch lead with liquid nitrogen cores with each piece of lead encased with 4 inch (insert some crazy exotic dielectric / shielding here, I've run out of crazy stuff to say lol). Yes that was supposed to sound like I am off my rocker! If what you're connecting has good contacts and terminations in the devices, and the HDMI signal produced from a source plays nice with the sink, then a $5 cable from Fry's (be sure to buy in the computer department because the cables there are way cheaper than the same exact cable being sold under a different SKU in the HT dept) will perform perfectly well as long as the standard you need is met or exceeded.

Same with coax digital and optical. Optical COULD be tricky as there are different types such as single or multi mode, but I've only seen that kind of designation for fibre networks. I don't think you can buy the "wrong cable" for HT, it's either a standard or started as a gentlemen agreement that no one in their right minds w would go against now.

The only things I would consider paying a bit more for are analogue interconnects and speaker cables. Purely for shielding purposes. But you could spend a grand on some well shielded interconnects and make render ask that extra cash useless by having a gang of cabling, or bundling interconnects with speaker cables. I have seen this done more than a few times, by integrators no less. Calibrating or recalibrating someone's display / audio that was installed by a custom installer/integrator. Basically getting the same sound out of thousand dollar cables that you would get out of a run of the mill shielded cable at a 10th of the price if they are installed correctly. Quite unbelievable.

Regards,
Steve

Regards, (for the vast majority of people :-p)

Steve
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post #5260 of 5267 Old Yesterday, 05:07 PM
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I don't think so either, but who knows? I sure am not going to install any crazy expensive stuff without proof, nor would I recommend it to anyone, but I can't say it's impossible. Being an engineer and grounded in science and logic I can get pretty close though.

Like I said before, I give all my cable money to signal cable. Very good quality, and last time I checked you could even get silver cables for around 200 bucks. Only problem I had were the interconnects I bought around 2003, the RCAs were super tight, and I ended up slipping the termination wrap on the plug body. Well that and I specified the wrong speaker termination on the amp side of the speaker cables I bought at the same time. But that's totally my fault.

Bought some interconnects a few years ago (cheaper versions from what I had) for a birthday present, and they worked out great for my buddy. I highly recommend them. No frills website or marketing, quality vs price speaks for themselves. Plus you can call and he'll make you just about anything you want.

Also, like I said, I'm not going to hesitate to put my gear on 1 or 2 dedicated circuits, with quality outlets and maybe some kind of extra protection on those circuits just to keep the expensive gear somewhat isolated from the rest of the house/any surge sources.

But quality stuff doesn't mean exotic materials and $$$$$$$$ for me. I have very good hearing, but in a blind test I picked the $200 cables over the multi thousand dollar ones. Someone that can afford that stuff, and buys it, will almost always say it sounds better/looks better. How could you not when you drop a couple grand on a cable like HDMI that only carries digital? Digital is digital, as long as the terminations and the contacts are good I don't care if the cable is made up of rhodium plated solid gold strands all encased in 2 inch lead with liquid nitrogen cores with each piece of lead encased with 4 inch (insert some crazy exotic dielectric / shielding here, I've run out of crazy stuff to say lol). Yes that was supposed to sound like I am off my rocker! If what you're connecting has good contacts and terminations in the devices, and the HDMI signal produced from a source plays nice with the sink, then a $5 cable from Fry's (be sure to buy in the computer department because the cables there are way cheaper than the same exact cable being sold under a different SKU in the HT dept) will perform perfectly well as long as the standard you need is met or exceeded.

Same with coax digital and optical. Optical COULD be tricky as there are different types such as single or multi mode, but I've only seen that kind of designation for fibre networks. I don't think you can buy the "wrong cable" for HT, it's either a standard or started as a gentlemen agreement that no one in their right minds w would go against now.

The only things I would consider paying a bit more for are analogue interconnects and speaker cables. Purely for shielding purposes. But you could spend a grand on some well shielded interconnects and make render ask that extra cash useless by having a gang of cabling, or bundling interconnects with speaker cables. I have seen this done more than a few times, by integrators no less. Calibrating or recalibrating someone's display / audio that was installed by a custom installer/integrator. Basically getting the same sound out of thousand dollar cables that you would get out of a run of the mill shielded cable at a 10th of the price if they are installed correctly. Quite unbelievable.

Regards,
Steve
That's why you should have good friends not freeloaders.
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That's why you should have good friends not freeloaders.
???????? Who said I have freeloaders as friends and not good friends?

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Steve

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Will turning up the color setting on my plasma to get a more vibrant look hurt it in any way? Will it decrease lifespan or fade colors faster? thats if colors fade on plasma tvs? Im clueless about plasmas
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post #5263 of 5267 Old Today, 04:23 AM
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???????? Who said I have freeloaders as friends and not good friends?

Regards,
Steve
My point is I have few friends are electricians and some work HT.
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I'm getting ready to pull the trigger on the Disney WOW 2-disc blu-Ray set for the pixel flipper, and I'm adding the Spears & Munsil 2nd Edition so I can get free shipping. Do you need to know what you're doing, access to calibration tools & the service menu etc. to get benefits out of these calibration discs?
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post #5265 of 5267 Old Today, 09:38 AM
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Will turning up the color setting on my plasma to get a more vibrant look hurt it in any way? Will it decrease lifespan or fade colors faster? thats if colors fade on plasma tvs? Im clueless about plasmas
Ok, need some more info. Make and model of your set?

By color setting do you mean the COLOR setting (a single adjustment bar or value)? Or something deeper in the menu (usually) that is usually called color space but flipping to custom allows you to "turn up" or "turn down" at least your primaries, usually primaries and secondaries on newer sets. Pretty sure it's the first one.

On that point, what is your color space set to? Usually has auto, native, custom.

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My point is I have few friends are electricians and some work HT.
No reason to call my friends freeloaders man! Although, one is pretty damn cheap :rotf . But I was kinda the freeloader there. Helped the guy pay off his house for almost 10 years through renting a room. THAT PLACE would be the perfect A/B test for a dedicated circuit.

Is cool you know people that can and will give deals. But not everyone knows somebody. I can isf calibrate for friends, but that doesn't give them anything tangible.

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I'm getting ready to pull the trigger on the Disney WOW 2-disc blu-Ray set for the pixel flipper, and I'm adding the Spears & Munsil 2nd Edition so I can get free shipping. Do you need to know what you're doing, access to calibration tools & the service menu etc. to get benefits out of these calibration discs?
shouldn't need the service menu nowadays. Most adjustments can be made in the user menu.

The disc is very good at explaining things of you want to learn, and will walk you through a basic "front panel" calibration. Stuff like brightness, contrast, tint, etc.

You really need a meter to get accurate white balance and adjust the CMS, but the disk allows you to get pretty close. I would definitely recommend the purchase.

Regards,
Steve

Regards, (for the vast majority of people :-p)

Steve
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post #5266 of 5267 Old Today, 01:53 PM
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Ok, need some more info. Make and model of your set?

By color setting do you mean the COLOR setting (a single adjustment bar or value)? Or something deeper in the menu (usually) that is usually called color space but flipping to custom allows you to "turn up" or "turn down" at least your primaries, usually primaries and secondaries on newer sets. Pretty sure it's the first one.

On that point, what is your color space set to? Usually has auto, native, custom.



No reason to call my friends freeloaders man! Although, one is pretty damn cheap :rotf . But I was kinda the freeloader there. Helped the guy pay off his house for almost 10 years through renting a room. THAT PLACE would be the perfect A/B test for a dedicated circuit.

Is cool you know people that can and will give deals. But not everyone knows somebody. I can isf calibrate for friends, but that doesn't give them anything tangible.



shouldn't need the service menu nowadays. Most adjustments can be made in the user menu.

The disc is very good at explaining things of you want to learn, and will walk you through a basic "front panel" calibration. Stuff like brightness, contrast, tint, etc.

You really need a meter to get accurate white balance and adjust the CMS, but the disk allows you to get pretty close. I would definitely recommend the purchase.

Regards,
Steve
Samsung pn51f5300b , Im talking about the color setting slider, It was set to 50 on standard but I moved it to 54. Just wondering if it can hurt the set by have the colors burn too bright
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Samsung pn51f5300b , Im talking about the color setting slider, It was set to 50 on standard but I moved it to 54. Just wondering if it can hurt the set by have the colors burn too bright
Ah, 4 points is nothing. Worst you'll do is have over saturated colors. Best will be still under saturated colors if they were under in the first place, or close to perfect saturation.

Be sure the color space is set to auto. If it was on native drop the color back to 50 and check it out. Sammy usually does a decent job with auto. Not exactly sure how they set it, but you can get really good color on various material and have it off a bit on others. So plus 5 may make one thing look good, and over saturate the other stuff.

But again, 5 clicks is really small, 8% off center, 4% of full scale.

There is a monster/ISF calibration wizard DVD floating around that was given out at their classes, really basic guide that runs you through a quick front panel. It's really nice for color and tint. You don't get color bars, instead you get 3 girls, one with a ton of makeup that looks crazy over saturated, one is "normal," and the 3rd is made up to be way under saturated. With that screen up you adjust until to make the girl in the middle look human. This is mostly an FYI, as your TV has some nice features.

You should set the brightness, contrast, and color temp first. Test disc or slides would be ideal, the avs disc/materials are free, just need to figure out what format you need for your gear.

Second best would be the expert patterns built into the TV, one greyscale pattern for brightness/contrast, and one color pattern for setting color and tint. For color temp it is usually warm or warm 2. If you can find a review it should tell you what setting gets you close to D6500.

Now you'll use the RGB only setting on your TV. You either disable red and green, or select blue. SMPTE color bars are easier to work with if you can grab some slides from the forum, but the built in pattern will work, it's just a lot more busy and I'm not sure what the extra stuff is for.

For color you'll be looking at the blue/white rectangles/boxes, for tint you'll be looking at the aqua/purplish (actual color names are escaping me.)

When you flip into blue only you'll have the blue, and the white sections will turn blue, the aqua and purple will also turn blue, so be sure not to mix up what was what before flipping to blue only.

Now adjust the color until the original blue and white (which is now blue) match each other.

Go through the same process using tint for the original aqua/purple which are now blue.

These 2 adjustments are interactive, so you'll have to make it an iterative process until you get as close as possible on both.

Feel free to ask any questions.

Regards,
Steve

Regards, (for the vast majority of people :-p)

Steve
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