Master Burn-In/IR/Break In Thread Part II: All Posts Here Only - Page 179 - AVS Forum
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post #5341 of 5361 Old 09-26-2014, 07:52 PM
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How do I know the difference between Burn in and IR?

I've got a beautiful HUD from Destiny on PS4 showing on light screens in the bottom left of my Panasonic TCP60VT60.

It's covered by my extended warranty but I'd prefer if I could just get it out as I love this TV and there's nothing on the market that looks worthwhile replacing it with with the exchange I'll get.
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post #5342 of 5361 Old 09-27-2014, 12:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpacedDuck View Post
How do I know the difference between Burn in and IR?

I've got a beautiful HUD from Destiny on PS4 showing on light screens in the bottom left of my Panasonic TCP60VT60.

It's covered by my extended warranty but I'd prefer if I could just get it out as I love this TV and there's nothing on the market that looks worthwhile replacing it with with the exchange I'll get.
If the warranty is through panny, personally, if check with them regarding what you'd get. Don't know the fine print so I'd be careful with what details are given. Don't know about what would happen with your warranty if something is reported but you decline.

Anyway, you never know what's tucked away in the warehouse. You could end up with a zt60 for paying a couple hundred bucks, or free if no vt60's are around, or a brand new vt60, or or a new vt60 panel swapped in for yours, etc.

As to your question, your set just has IR, characterized by the HUD only being v visible on light screens. IR goes away, burn in doesn't. Of you had burn in that HUD would be jumping out at you all the time, regardless of what your watching. Also, with today's tech, it's practically impossible to j get to burn in. You'd need a static image that was VERY likely to cause IR quickly and leave it on for days if not weeks, and this is after defeating the sets protections of turning off or going to a screensaver after X minutes, same with the turning off after Y minutes of not receiving a command, the pixel orbiter's, etc.

Basically you need to actively TRY to get burn in to actually have a chance of getting it.

Beyond trying to get ZT from the warehouse like I talked about above, running a pixel flipper like what is found on the Disney wow disk or what a member here created, or tossing up a 80-90-100 ire greyscale calibration screen (your choice on the IRE level, and this method came straight from the ISF when I took the calibration class ~2006, before pixel flippers) and the IR should fade away to unnoticeable pretty quickly.

May want to save the warranty until it's almost up because who knows what you'd get then. Same reasoning is used to go for the warranty now because I'm sure there is stuff in the warehouse just for these circumstances.

Regards,
Steve
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Regards, (for the vast majority of people :-p)

Steve
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post #5343 of 5361 Old 09-28-2014, 06:01 AM
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Setting up a USED Panansonic 65ZT60, WOW Disc, Calibration etc

Ok, couple of questions, I will be hopefully buying a used 65ZT60 in the coming weeks.

About the TV: The set has about 3800hrs~(pic was sent to me), it was a display model. The sales manger was very sincere in helping me answer questions, the location of the tv in the store was not in hands reach where customers could touch the TV (he sent me pics, on a shelf higher up), he explained they never get the same image on the screens, was running normal TV content and rotating the channels.(non-stationary content).

Here are my questions:
1. Should I leave it off for a couple of days? (since its been on in the store for some time)

2. Should I run color slides to maybe reset the plasma cells to get them all even again? (not sure if that makes sense)

3. And what is the WOW disc from Disney? (would that be important?)

4. Basically what I am asking if I can do a "TUNE UP" to the TV as you would do to a car.(change oil, change the brakes, lubricate etc)

5.And I also would be getting the 1 year warranty from Panasonic. (anything to know about this?

6. Can I still get this TV professionally calibrated?

7. Any other suggestions? I will use this TV mostly for movies and sports, minor gaming on Xbox.

Thanks for the help and suggestions.
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post #5344 of 5361 Old 09-28-2014, 08:20 AM
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Are you buying it without personally inspecting it? I would say the odds of the television having IR and/or potentially permanent burn in are close to 100%. Based upon my experience, IR does not show up very well in photographs. Is this one of the ABC Warehouse display sets?
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post #5345 of 5361 Old 09-30-2014, 06:10 PM
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Need help. 1st time owner plasma here. Just bought vt60 used floor model. And it has some IR or burn in on the screen. Any idea which settings or way i need to run to eliminate those logos? Thanks.
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post #5346 of 5361 Old 10-01-2014, 11:22 PM
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So I'm basically really happy with my Samsung F5300 50" PDP, but after reading certain forum comments I've become a bit worried about IR/burn in again. I've been using it pretty normally for months now, running the screen wipe if there's any temporary IR. All IR goes away pretty quickly with either that or Disney's pixel flipper (I could faintly see the PS3s "pause" icon for awhile so I ran it).

I saw a thread online that stated that burn-in is cumulative, in response to someone who had watched a channel with a logo, not for hours at a time necessarily, but fairly regularly for a number of years, and said he had a logo burned in. Is that true?

Does this mean it's inevitable? Will I eventually have the pause button icon burned in? The 4:3 frame, the black bars from Scope movies?

Panasonic apparently recommends that only 20% (or some number) of your viewing be non-16:9. Samsung's manual says only 5%!

Surely one isn't expected to simply watch TV on a plasma - shows and the odd movie in 1.78:1. Who would buy the TV technology with the best PQ for just that? I mean, I'd expect a plasma to be a movie fan's pick, if anything. I chose a plasma because I'm a big movie fan and want to watch them in the best quality I can at home. That means black bars, and lots of them. Half the movies I watch are 2.35:1 with larger black bars, most of the rest 1.85:1 with smaller, and there are too many great older shows at 1.33:1 to not watch. I don't know if just running screen wipe or viewing full screen content after a movie is enough - it makes the imprint of the bars disappear, but will they eventually show permanently, having been aged less? I do try to watch fullscreen stuff if I feel I've had too many black bars on lately, but it seems kinda nutty to be consciousy worrying about this ratio hundreds of hours into the TV's life.

It just seems that there's so much conflicting info out there.

Thanks for any information.
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post #5347 of 5361 Old 10-02-2014, 09:15 AM
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where can i find the test slides to calibrate or check for ir?

-Mike
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post #5348 of 5361 Old 10-02-2014, 10:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anastasios T Geivelis View Post
Ok, couple of questions, I will be hopefully buying a used 65ZT60 in the coming weeks.

About the TV: The set has about 3800hrs~(pic was sent to me), it was a display model. The sales manger was very sincere in helping me answer questions, the location of the tv in the store was not in hands reach where customers could touch the TV (he sent me pics, on a shelf higher up), he explained they never get the same image on the screens, was running normal TV content and rotating the channels.(non-stationary content).

Here are my questions:
1. Should I leave it off for a couple of days? (since its been on in the store for some time)

2. Should I run color slides to maybe reset the plasma cells to get them all even again? (not sure if that makes sense)

3. And what is the WOW disc from Disney? (would that be important?)

4. Basically what I am asking if I can do a "TUNE UP" to the TV as you would do to a car.(change oil, change the brakes, lubricate etc)

5.And I also would be getting the 1 year warranty from Panasonic. (anything to know about this?

6. Can I still get this TV professionally calibrated?

7. Any other suggestions? I will use this TV mostly for movies and sports, minor gaming on Xbox.

Thanks for the help and suggestions.
At this point there is nothing color slides will do but expose any IR issues you may have. If you have IR, you can run the WoW pixel flipper for a few days to reduce it or just run full screen logo free programming for the same amount of time. And yes, if I were you, I would have the panel professionally calibrated.
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post #5349 of 5361 Old 10-02-2014, 10:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caloyzki View Post
Need help. 1st time owner plasma here. Just bought vt60 used floor model. And it has some IR or burn in on the screen. Any idea which settings or way i need to run to eliminate those logos? Thanks.
You can just watch as much full screen logo free content as possible and it should clear up on its own.
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post #5350 of 5361 Old 10-02-2014, 10:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JarvisKong View Post
Surely one isn't expected to simply watch TV on a plasma - shows and the odd movie in 1.78:1. Who would buy the TV technology with the best PQ for just that? I mean, I'd expect a plasma to be a movie fan's pick, if anything. I chose a plasma because I'm a big movie fan and want to watch them in the best quality I can at home. That means black bars, and lots of them. Half the movies I watch are 2.35:1 with larger black bars, most of the rest 1.85:1 with smaller, and there are too many great older shows at 1.33:1 to not watch. I don't know if just running screen wipe or viewing full screen content after a movie is enough - it makes the imprint of the bars disappear, but will they eventually show permanently, having been aged less? I do try to watch fullscreen stuff if I feel I've had too many black bars on lately, but it seems kinda nutty to be consciousy worrying about this ratio hundreds of hours into the TV's life.
I think your panel will likely be ok. You can always run the screen wipe or Disney WoW pixel flipper after a heavy movie day.
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post #5351 of 5361 Old 10-02-2014, 11:28 AM
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You can just watch as much full screen logo free content as possible and it should clear up on its own.
thanks. but i think but not sure, maybe the burn in is already permanent . but how often i need to run the screen wipe?hours? thanks

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post #5352 of 5361 Old 10-02-2014, 12:40 PM
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thanks. but i think but not sure, maybe the burn in is already permanent . but how often i need to run the screen wipe?hours? thanks
If you think you have burn-in use as much full screen content as possible or run the Disney WoW pixel flipper over night. If the IR is less, it is not burn in and you can continue with the pixel flipper or full screen content until it clears.
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post #5353 of 5361 Old 10-02-2014, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Cuda1169 View Post
If you think you have burn-in use as much full screen content as possible or run the Disney WoW pixel flipper over night. If the IR is less, it is not burn in and you can continue with the pixel flipper or full screen content until it clears.
Thanks. So all cable channels i watch movies and games i just used full screen with them? And also the wow disc where i cam get them? Dvd or bluray? Which on the settings are full screen? Is it the full or just? Thanks
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post #5354 of 5361 Old 10-02-2014, 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted by caloyzki View Post
Thanks. So all cable channels i watch movies and games i just used full screen with them? And also the wow disc where i cam get them? Dvd or bluray? Which on the settings are full screen? Is it the full or just? Thanks
Sure you can expand you screen to fill the entire screen w/o logos. You can order the Disney WoW bluray at Amazon. I don't recall which setting overscans the screen but its something you can see right away. Good luck and enjoy your panel.
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post #5355 of 5361 Old 10-16-2014, 06:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Iceberg86300 View Post
If the warranty is through panny, personally, if check with them regarding what you'd get. Don't know the fine print so I'd be careful with what details are given. Don't know about what would happen with your warranty if something is reported but you decline.

Anyway, you never know what's tucked away in the warehouse. You could end up with a zt60 for paying a couple hundred bucks, or free if no vt60's are around, or a brand new vt60, or or a new vt60 panel swapped in for yours, etc.

As to your question, your set just has IR, characterized by the HUD only being v visible on light screens. IR goes away, burn in doesn't. Of you had burn in that HUD would be jumping out at you all the time, regardless of what your watching. Also, with today's tech, it's practically impossible to j get to burn in. You'd need a static image that was VERY likely to cause IR quickly and leave it on for days if not weeks, and this is after defeating the sets protections of turning off or going to a screensaver after X minutes, same with the turning off after Y minutes of not receiving a command, the pixel orbiter's, etc.

Basically you need to actively TRY to get burn in to actually have a chance of getting it.

Beyond trying to get ZT from the warehouse like I talked about above, running a pixel flipper like what is found on the Disney wow disk or what a member here created, or tossing up a 80-90-100 ire greyscale calibration screen (your choice on the IRE level, and this method came straight from the ISF when I took the calibration class ~2006, before pixel flippers) and the IR should fade away to unnoticeable pretty quickly.

May want to save the warranty until it's almost up because who knows what you'd get then. Same reasoning is used to go for the warranty now because I'm sure there is stuff in the warehouse just for these circumstances.

Regards,
Steve
I got the same thing from playing Destiny!!!! In total I have logged about 36 hours on the game in the past month but have probably watched other content equal to it at a 2:1 ratio. In a typical play session I will play about 2 hours at a time although there will be loading screens in between matches. See the pic below as to an example of the Destiny Heads up display. On solid light colored screens i see a dark horizontal bar (almost like a shadow) right where that yellow meter is on the bottom left. Since I noticed it I have played full screen content amounting to at least 15 hours and have played the Disney Wow pixel flipper for at least 3 hours as well as running the ZT60 screen wipe for 1-2 hours. The bar is less pronounced but I still see it. I have not had a HUD issue in any other game but for some reason this really stands out. The problem is exacerbated by the fact that you cannot turn off the HUD in the game.

I'm very hesitant about playing the game in the future and can't believe how much I have to baby the ZT60 relative to an older panny plasma and Kuro set that I have. I'm almost wondering if I should just get the IR even more pronounced, call up best buy and use my protection plan and use a credit for a UHD set so I just don't have to worry about IR issues (I've been very resistant to the thought of switching to LCD/LED due to motion/black levels/viewing angles). Thoughts?

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post #5356 of 5361 Old 10-17-2014, 07:57 AM
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Very helpful, thanks.
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post #5357 of 5361 Old 10-21-2014, 10:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Priestley View Post
I got the same thing from playing Destiny!!!! In total I have logged about 36 hours on the game in the past month but have probably watched other content equal to it at a 2:1 ratio. In a typical play session I will play about 2 hours at a time although there will be loading screens in between matches. See the pic below as to an example of the Destiny Heads up display. On solid light colored screens i see a dark horizontal bar (almost like a shadow) right where that yellow meter is on the bottom left. Since I noticed it I have played full screen content amounting to at least 15 hours and have played the Disney Wow pixel flipper for at least 3 hours as well as running the ZT60 screen wipe for 1-2 hours. The bar is less pronounced but I still see it. I have not had a HUD issue in any other game but for some reason this really stands out. The problem is exacerbated by the fact that you cannot turn off the HUD in the game.

I'm very hesitant about playing the game in the future and can't believe how much I have to baby the ZT60 relative to an older panny plasma and Kuro set that I have. I'm almost wondering if I should just get the IR even more pronounced, call up best buy and use my protection plan and use a credit for a UHD set so I just don't have to worry about IR issues (I've been very resistant to the thought of switching to LCD/LED due to motion/black levels/viewing angles). Thoughts?

Have you calibrated your panel? Proper calibration can help reduce stubborn IR in the future. Continuing with the pixel flipper and full screen content is your best bet to help get rid of the IR. I game on my ST50 regularly and it accounts for 15%-20% of my panel’s usage. I do watch a lot of full screen content and I think that helps. I also let me panel warm up for 30-60 minutes before any gaming. Good Luck.
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post #5358 of 5361 Old 10-21-2014, 10:01 PM
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I have not gotten this TV calibrated. What would that actually do from an IR perspective? I did wait about 250 hours before any gaming. My gaming is about 1/3 of usage. Never saw IR (that would last more than a few seconds) with any other game. I have noticed that after watching a lot of full screen content that the band is diminished but still noticeable (went about a week). Then I played the game again and the IR returned again. I also typically watch 30-60 minutes before playing and try to watch some full screen content after I'm done gaming. I don't know. Perhaps I'll just have to stop playing destiny and move onto another game.

I had read others post on the ZT60 thread that their IR became more noticeable and more stubborn after 1500-2000 hours of owning the TV. Its disappointing because when I put on a blu-ray this television is truly gorgeous.
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post #5359 of 5361 Old 10-22-2014, 08:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Jason Priestley View Post
I have not gotten this TV calibrated. What would that actually do from an IR perspective? I did wait about 250 hours before any gaming. My gaming is about 1/3 of usage. Never saw IR (that would last more than a few seconds) with any other game. I have noticed that after watching a lot of full screen content that the band is diminished but still noticeable (went about a week). Then I played the game again and the IR returned again. I also typically watch 30-60 minutes before playing and try to watch some full screen content after I'm done gaming. I don't know. Perhaps I'll just have to stop playing destiny and move onto another game.

I had read others post on the ZT60 thread that their IR became more noticeable and more stubborn after 1500-2000 hours of owning the TV. Its disappointing because when I put on a blu-ray this television is truly gorgeous.
Certainly calibration always helps. Unfortunately the newer Panasonics seem susceptible to IR. Greater care may have to be taken which sadly takes more time. You can try running the pixel flipper overnight a few times per week and running as much full screen content as possible even when you are not watching the panel. Good Luck.
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post #5360 of 5361 Old 10-22-2014, 10:52 AM
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The apparent IR susceptibility of the VT60 & ZT60 is certainly disappointing. I can't help but feel like it defines/modifies/impacts my viewing habits.

I'm trying like hell to baby my "new" VT60. I had my first real IR encounter after watching Monday Night Football this week, and they actually seem to do a decent job of not displaying an overwhelming amount of static content. I also have a 55" VT60 that might have a permanent case of mild IR/burn, so I'm very careful with the 65" to change channels every so often etc. if what I'm watching contains any static content.

I'm confident that this is temporary, but I can't help but wonder how easy it would be to permanently burn/damage the panel.

Having said that, these televisions produce an amazing image.
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post #5361 of 5361 Old Yesterday, 11:06 AM
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Hi All,

Firstly, just to make things clear, I am an idiot & take full responsibility for what I have done so feel free to berate me as you deem fit!.

I have a 51" Samsung Plasma (PS51E6500) that has been in use now for about 2 years. It was broken in for about 400 hours with reduced settings to age the panel in evenly & help with things like IR & BI as per forum recommendations. The various screen burn protection features were also employed from the outset & then left alone to ensure they were always active.

About 6 months after purchase, I added a Set Top Box which allowed me to set a letterbox viewing option which I selected as I preferred this image look & scale of things on the picture - it just looked more normal & natural to me. Not all channels would display in letterbox - some broadcast so the whole screen was showing a picture so I have been watching a mix of both.

I very recently signed up to a satellite TV provider here in the UK called Sky TV & now have a new satellite box from them which is mandatory to use in order to view all channels. The Sky TV does not offer an option to view in letterbox format so everything is full screen.

Problem is that I have now noticed a quite dark main viewing area (grey with a pink overtone) with two distinct lighter bands at the top & bottom of the screen. Is this IR, BI & can it be removed or have I permanently damaged my Plasma?

I had read that the PSE6500 was pretty immune to IR/BI but even then, I made sure that the screen protection was always employed & took great care in the beginning.

AVS Member mailing has kindly suggested trying the Disney WOW Pixel Orbiter but I would have to import this from the USA so may do so soon but would also like to explore other options in addition. I have run some IR/Burn In video's downloaded from Youtube as well as the "IR Removal Video" posted by James Freeman a couple pages back but it has not made any difference so far.

Any help & advice you guys can give on how to remedy this issue would be very much appreciated - I feel really bad about my ignorance & stupidity at allowing this to happen.

Many Kind Thanks,
Bazzy!
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