Master Burn-In/IR/Break In Thread Part II: All Posts Here Only - Page 183 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #5461 of 5480 Old 01-14-2015, 05:51 PM
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^ I'm going to do this starting right now! That's just more reason for me to start watching Archer.

Anyhow, thanks for the reassuring advice. Hopefully this isn't permanent. When in using the Sammy grey scroll, the IR I'm seeing is faint white if near the edges of the screen, while any IR in the center is a faint/light pink or very light brown. I thought the latter colors might be an indication of burn-in, but I'll give it a month or so before I make that conclusion.

I just bought my father an LG 60PB6650 plasma, but I'll be sure to take every precaution with the settings on that TV to avoid this crap mine is having.
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post #5462 of 5480 Old 01-14-2015, 06:15 PM
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^In additon to that, don't use Dynamic mode for normal viewing - this will cause image retention with almost anything. Standard mode should be plenty bright at it's normal settings to suffice any room.

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post #5463 of 5480 Old 01-16-2015, 02:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Tom Riddle View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vandy58 View Post
Well I started a new thread on this from my phone without seeing this sticky. So I have a ST60 that I primarily use for gaming. I have had it for a year and a half and never did a break in on it. I have probably only put 100 hours into it up until Monday when I noticed that one of the games I play decided to retain the hub into the TV as this hub does not go away. I have run the screen wipe and I think it dimmed it but only just a little. I purchased the WOW disc and ran the pixel tool for 11 hours over night, I am not sure if it really did anything. I have also kept it on playing nothing but movies for 15 hours a day for the past couple of days. When playing the movies should I bump the contrast up? When the IR happened the contrast was set at 44. Anything else I should be doing? Tonight I did the wow disc for about two hours and now it is playing non stop HD Encore. The IR is only visible one a light back screen not on a dark screen.
Put that puppy in vivid and load up some fullscreen content - and make sure it's truly fullscreen. It will go away with some time, don't worry about it. Stay away from the game until it dissappears.
Thanks! I actually just looked at my timer and I have 1159 hours into the panel which is more than I thought. Hopefully with time it goes away
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post #5464 of 5480 Old 01-16-2015, 06:59 AM
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Well running pixel flipper on vivid now. Should be home around 6, hopefully it will help!
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post #5465 of 5480 Old 02-05-2015, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom Riddle View Post
The F8500 is prone to IR from the letterbox bars, but it dissapers in a very short amount of time after switching to fullscreen. Not an issue in my opinion. I wouldnt worry about using pixel flippers or anything, just vary your content.
I agree--I think it gets a little lesser with age, but my set is a sub 200 hours and they do show up, if the movie is 90 minutes or 2 hours it takes about 10 minutes of other content to remove them.

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post #5466 of 5480 Old 02-15-2015, 04:19 PM
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Headaches

I am replacing an 8 year old Sony SXRD rear projector. I tried a P Series Visio 4K and got headaches even after 3 weeks. Friday I set up an LG 50 6650, and am doing the break in with AVS slides and zoomed stuff etc. The eyestrain/headaches are not as bad as the LCD but still there to some extent. I have the WOW and SP 2nd editions and wonder if the pixel flipping or anything else can help resolve this problem. I really do not want to invest in repairing the Sony, I would like to keep the Plasma. Any advice appreciated. Thanks ron
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post #5467 of 5480 Old 02-17-2015, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by ronton3 View Post
I am replacing an 8 year old Sony SXRD rear projector. I tried a P Series Visio 4K and got headaches even after 3 weeks. Friday I set up an LG 50 6650, and am doing the break in with AVS slides and zoomed stuff etc. The eyestrain/headaches are not as bad as the LCD but still there to some extent. I have the WOW and SP 2nd editions and wonder if the pixel flipping or anything else can help resolve this problem. I really do not want to invest in repairing the Sony, I would like to keep the Plasma. Any advice appreciated. Thanks ron
Can you better describe your viewing environment as eyestrain can be the result of many things? Sitting too close to a screen as well as watching TV in total darkness w/o ambient light can both cause eyestrain. When I went from my 47” panel to 60” I suffered from eyestrain. I moved my viewing area back to 10 and a half feet and adding proper ambient lighting and couldn't be happier. Good luck.
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post #5468 of 5480 Old 02-19-2015, 07:25 AM
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Thanks

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Originally Posted by Cuda1169 View Post
Can you better describe your viewing environment as eyestrain can be the result of many things? Sitting too close to a screen as well as watching TV in total darkness w/o ambient light can both cause eyestrain. When I went from my 47” panel to 60” I suffered from eyestrain. I moved my viewing area back to 10 and a half feet and adding proper ambient lighting and couldn't be happier. Good luck.
I moved back to 9 feet 50inch screen, I was at 6, and I am using a brighter backlight, it does seem to help. I have also put the tv in PC mode(reducing its processing) and run everything through an OPPO 103, this seems to help. I keep trying different things and it seems better. Thanks ron
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post #5469 of 5480 Old 02-19-2015, 09:22 PM
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A bit of full spectrum 6500k light behind the TV can work wonders if you can find any dimmable bulbs that don't cost a fortune. Sadly, I haven't found any that won't hurt your wallet. You want ~90% of the spectrum or better and most CFL's rated at 6500k put out harsh blue.

Also try to tune the TV and your regular lighting for different amounts of ambient light. Wall color can make a huge difference as well, but more for picture quality, so you don't need adjustments and the TV looking like a sun on the wall.

Of you have to, jump out PC mode and set up 2-3 modes exactly the same but with different backlight settings. Too much backlight can kill your eyes/head depending on the ambient light. So you want more during the day, and less at night. You also don't want a bunch of light sources on in evening, creating too much artificial light and requiring more backlight. You'll have to play around a bit, possibly at the expense of your SO. For example, when going from RP to LCD my mom LOVED (S) torch mode. My dad and I can't stand it. I turned on expert mode in the service menu to get cal day and cal night modes. Your LG should have ISFccc day and night modes. LG is great in that respect, one of the few main stream brands that has that feature. You obviously can't get identical pictures 24 hours a day, and the difference between settings turns a lot of people off on changing between them, but it is a really a great benefit.

If you have it calibrated much more than backlight will be different between modes, so if you have a test disk you can really benefit from setting the backlight to where y you think might want it and then setting brightness/contrast, all 3 adjustments affect each other, but for each backlight you try it only takes ~5 minutes for brightness and contrast. You can then pass the preferred backlight to the calibrator. I'd recommend doing the above regardless of your intent of calibration just because the 3 adjustments are so intertwined.

Regards,
Steve
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Regards, (for the vast majority of people :-p)

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post #5470 of 5480 Old 02-19-2015, 11:28 PM
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just hooked up an HTPC, what's the best win 8.1 theme/desktop background to reduce IR/BI?

Already set to turn signal off after 1 min of inactivity...perhaps I should use a screen saver instead?

I chose pure black background because it uses the least cell light i presume?

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post #5471 of 5480 Old 02-20-2015, 09:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ronton3 View Post
I moved back to 9 feet 50inch screen, I was at 6, and I am using a brighter backlight, it does seem to help. I have also put the tv in PC mode(reducing its processing) and run everything through an OPPO 103, this seems to help. I keep trying different things and it seems better. Thanks ron
I second what Iceberg86300 said. I have used the following 6500k light behind my panel and it worked well. It does not have a dim feature though.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
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post #5472 of 5480 Old 02-20-2015, 10:21 AM
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Thanks for the light recommendation, I have one coming from Amazon. ron
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post #5473 of 5480 Old 02-24-2015, 07:01 PM
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I seem to get very bad IR on 64" F8500 out of the box, I'm talking literally within minutes. I get paranoid just going to the washroom when my video is paused. It doesn't appear to be permanent because after watching other content it goes away immediately after.
We're talking static images in the smart hub menu, but even the dynamic 'No signal sign' that moves up and down!
Not even crazy cell light or anything...on the dim Movie mode. Burn-in protection/pixel shift is on too.

I'm getting a new panel soon so I dont care about the existing one...is this normal for even out of the box? Will slides/calibration help for my new panel?

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post #5474 of 5480 Old 02-25-2015, 01:12 AM
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Originally Posted by twitchyzero View Post
I seem to get very bad IR on 64" F8500 out of the box, I'm talking literally within minutes. I get paranoid just going to the washroom when my video is paused. It doesn't appear to be permanent because after watching other content it goes away immediately after.
We're talking static images in the smart hub menu, but even the dynamic 'No signal sign' that moves up and down!
Not even crazy cell light or anything...on the dim Movie mode. Burn-in protection/pixel shift is on too.

I'm getting a new panel soon so I dont care about the existing one...is this normal for even out of the box? Will slides/calibration help for my new panel?
Worrisome, but fairly normal on a brand new set. I don't know exactly why this is case technically as I'm an mech engineer not a physicist or chemist, but in general terms burn in is caused by uneven aging of the phosphor in a cell which reduces its intensity, and image retention like you're seeing is caused by a residual charge build up in the cells. The very basic chemistry explanation is that an element or molecule is in some way excited beyond its normal state, and then must get rid of this extra energy to return to its normal state. Because energy can not be created or destroyed, only converted, a form of electromagnetic radiation (photons) is released, in this case some of that lies within the visible spectrum.

In a plasma TV you have cells that are analogous to a florescent light or any other source that forms plasma gas when electricity is applied. In this case the cells are coated with a phosphor. Plasma releases a photon, photon strikes a molecule in the phosphor increasing its energy, phosphor releases a photon when it returns to its natural state.

Sorry about the technical stuff! Don't know why or how, but it all just came back to me.

So I don't why, but plasmas are more susceptible to burn in/image retention during the first ~200 hours or so. Something to do with the fact that they lose intensity/age quickly during this period. To me, this explains burn in more than image retention. You're definitely experiencing the latter given how quickly it disappears.

During my ISF cert class ages ago we were taught that a plasma should be “seasoned” during this period by displaying a 70-100 IRE pattern. This served two purposes, eliminating the possibility of burn in during the peribecause reducing the chance of burn in through its life as well as greatly reducing the incidents of IR. In fact, the seasoning process was directed almost entirely towards IR, because actual burn in was touted as a thing of the past.

After the seasoning if any IR was incurred then the remedy was to put up the same slide used for seasoning until it was gone. This was a “put up the slide when not using the display” type of thing. This was ~2006.

Nowadays it is generally accepted that using slide(s) only for ~200 hours is not required as long you are careful while your set is an infant. The MO is to turn down the intensity and contrast, and watch varying, full screen, and logo/ticker free content. Use zoom for any non full screen content, and also zoom any content with a logo so it isn't visible. Avoid static images and don't let the source turn off so you don't get the no signal box. When going through the menus or using the smart hub you REALLY want minimum cell light and the lowest contrast possible. If you pause a program on a DVR turn off the set.

Also, I have an ES6500 LCD and the smart hub is treated as its own input when it comes to the picture settings. So check that out to make sure the settings you want are in place.

Personally, if I was you I'd enjoy the TV but very much baby it. There's no need to cripple the tv with a slide for 200 hours, but I would put up a high IRE gray or white slide (0 IRE=black, 100 IRE=white, everything in between is gray) when not the TV is not in use so you get out of the “danger zone” more quickly. Use one of the default picture settings with the slide instead of “babying mode.” Just make sure the slide looks gray or white. You don't want a mode that is obviously skewing towards one color.

Lastly, if I picked up a plasma as a replacement for a TV that was still operational and in place, I would indeed set up the new plasma with a signal generator or test disc (I'm a calibrator) for about a week. That gets you ~175 hours.

Regards,
Steve

Regards, (for the vast majority of people :-p)

Steve
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post #5475 of 5480 Old 02-25-2015, 06:45 AM
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Originally Posted by twitchyzero View Post
I seem to get very bad IR on 64" F8500 out of the box, I'm talking literally within minutes. I get paranoid just going to the washroom when my video is paused. It doesn't appear to be permanent because after watching other content it goes away immediately after.
We're talking static images in the smart hub menu, but even the dynamic 'No signal sign' that moves up and down!
Not even crazy cell light or anything...on the dim Movie mode. Burn-in protection/pixel shift is on too.

I'm getting a new panel soon so I dont care about the existing one...is this normal for even out of the box? Will slides/calibration help for my new panel?
Quite normal on newer panels, and will still persist some as the panel ages. As long as it disappears, then there are no worries. I have the same set and did no break-in, don't ever run pixel flippers or screen wipes and have no issues. I just make certain to vary my content and not abuse the panel. Also, you will notice the first few times you watch letterboxed content that the lines from the bars will persist after for about 10 minutes. Goes away as the panel ages.
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post #5476 of 5480 Old Yesterday, 04:29 AM
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I'm an European Panasonic ZT60 owner and i have some issues regarding IR, specifically at one part of the screen.
I have two stripes that appear to be magenta , these are on spot whith the place where the subtitles of the movies appear ( English is not my native language so i need subtitles when watching movies )

Please do take a look at the pictures posted, i would like to hear some info on this issue.

The bars were already much more visible, now they have faded to some extent, but they never have completly gone!
I have tried screen wipe and WOW pixel flipper for a couple of nights ( 8/10 hours straight ) but i just can't get rid of that.
The IR is there for 3 months already ... the panel has now 2800hrs ... the TV is 8 months old ..

Could it be a true Burn-in ?!

NOTE: The stripes are centered at the bottom of the screen ( if you can't see the bars, please take a step back from the monitor a try to look at the images again )

Thanks
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post #5477 of 5480 Old Yesterday, 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted by X-RaVer View Post
I'm an European Panasonic ZT60 owner and i have some issues regarding IR, specifically at one part of the screen.
I have two stripes that appear to be magenta , these are on spot whith the place where the subtitles of the movies appear ( English is not my native language so i need subtitles when watching movies )

Please do take a look at the pictures posted, i would like to hear some info on this issue.

The bars were already much more visible, now they have faded to some extent, but they never have completly gone!
I have tried screen wipe and WOW pixel flipper for a couple of nights ( 8/10 hours straight ) but i just can't get rid of that.
The IR is there for 3 months already ... the panel has now 2800hrs ... the TV is 8 months old ..

Could it be a true Burn-in ?!

NOTE: The stripes are centered at the bottom of the screen ( if you can't see the bars, please take a step back from the monitor a try to look at the images again )

Thanks
For the mean time, you can do a few things:
1.) set the Contrast and Brightness below 50 (I had them at 47-48 for the first 200 hours),
2.) watch something without subtitles,
3.) watch contents at full screen instead of letterbox
4.) put the 'screen wipe' on every now and then
5.) before turning your tv off, watch something full screen for a few minutes.
6) also, find a Cartoon channel and let it play at full screen while you're doing other chores,

This can take awhile for them to go away, especially for #2 if you don't lessen it.
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post #5478 of 5480 Old Yesterday, 10:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by X-RaVer View Post
I'm an European Panasonic ZT60 owner and i have some issues regarding IR, specifically at one part of the screen.
I have two stripes that appear to be magenta , these are on spot whith the place where the subtitles of the movies appear ( English is not my native language so i need subtitles when watching movies )

Please do take a look at the pictures posted, i would like to hear some info on this issue.

The bars were already much more visible, now they have faded to some extent, but they never have completly gone!
I have tried screen wipe and WOW pixel flipper for a couple of nights ( 8/10 hours straight ) but i just can't get rid of that.
The IR is there for 3 months already ... the panel has now 2800hrs ... the TV is 8 months old ..

Could it be a true Burn-in ?!

NOTE: The stripes are centered at the bottom of the screen ( if you can't see the bars, please take a step back from the monitor a try to look at the images again )

Thanks
Sounds like stubborn IR as true burn-in does not fade. It may take running the WoW disc several days to see further results, depending on the stubbornness of your IR. You can also just watch as much full screen, subtitle free and logo free content as possible and it will eventually fade. Once the IR is faded to your liking, I recommend you run the WoW flipper or watch full screen content after any viewing session with subtitles.
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post #5479 of 5480 Unread Today, 06:42 PM
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Does anyone have a reverse 4:3 image? With black in the middle and white on the sides? I've watched a lot of 4:3 content the last few weeks and I have some image retention now. I can see the border where the pillarboxing is located on either side.

I'd like to run the reverse image to see if I can even out the IR.
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post #5480 of 5480 Unread Today, 06:45 PM
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^^Just watch full-screen contents and zoom in all 4:3 materials for a few weeks. It should balance out and disappear.
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