Master Burn-In/IR/Break In Thread Part II: All Posts Here Only - Page 19 - AVS Forum
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post #541 of 5249 Old 06-16-2008, 05:38 PM
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here's the directions to see the hours.

Pioneer service menu (how to check for hours on your panel)

To check the hours on your plasma, go into the Service Menu

Start with the plasma turned OFF
Make sure you point the remote directly at the IR sensor in the tv

Press DISPLAY on the remote (just press, do not hold)
Wait 3 seconds
Press LEFT, UP, LEFT, RIGHT then POWER

If done correctly, the plasma turns on and the INFORMATION page is displayed

Then use the down arrow to page through to page 5
PANEL = the time the set has been on
MTB = the time the set has been plugged in

When you finish press the HOME MENU button

BE CAREFUL NOT TO CHANGE ANY SETTINGS! JUST LOOK!
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post #542 of 5249 Old 06-16-2008, 05:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RYU583 View Post

hello...maybe someone could help me

i downloaded the break in file...when i burnt it on the dvd......the colors only lasted for a flash...

it cycles through the colors at blazing speed lol

any idea on how the fix this?

thanks

.. download the .iso version of 'break-in DVD' & ImgBurn, a free program and worth holding on to. Load Imgburn program, then unzip break-in DVD .. double-click on MDS File (5kb). Should initiate Imgburn program & load .iso file (transparently); click-on top/left guide of ImgBurn to next screen. load DVD-R and then click botton 'large arrow right' at bottom. program will do its work to burn DVD.

add: http://www.imgburn.com/index.php?act=download
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post #543 of 5249 Old 06-17-2008, 08:30 PM
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Just got a 46pz85u and will run the break-in dvd but i am wondering, what should i put for my contrast and brightness? or anything else i need to do?
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post #544 of 5249 Old 06-18-2008, 04:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by t1no View Post

Just got a 46pz85u and will run the break-in dvd but i am wondering, what should i put for my contrast and brightness? or anything else i need to do?

I believe on the new Panasonics the settings range from 0-100 right? If so, switch the set into "Standard" mode (it may be in Vivid from the factory) and turn contrast/picture to something like 30-40. Brightness should be fine at 50.

Also set your source (DirecTV, cable box, etc) to grey side bars on SD channels, and set the TV to do the same.

If you watch an SD or 4:3 show, use the stretch or zoom features to fill in the screen. Same goes for widescreen movies with letterboxing, zoom those in to fill the screen.

Take it easy on the set for a few weeks, then change the settings to your liking and enjoy it.

jeff
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post #545 of 5249 Old 06-18-2008, 05:04 AM
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Just got a PX80u 2 weeks ago. I've been following the rules of break-in - full screen, decreased levels using Standard, no logos, no CNN scrolls etc.

Apparently, my hdbox had been set for 4:3. Yesterday The Cable Guy (kinda like Jim Carrey) came in and "fixed" the settings to 16:9, after I old him I wanted it at 4:3 until I broke it in. Actually, I've had more than 100 hours on it.

He kept fiddlin around with the settings, and told me to use the cable settings for zoom etc. rather than the tvs.

Wake up this morning for my usual full-screen HBO break-in and what do I see...One vertical black bar about 2 inches think on left side of tv (none on right).

After all this time, I'm really annoyed that this should happen. Not noticeable in darkened room at night, but in daytime - It's there. It was NOT there yesterday. Makes me think - LCD - except PQ is excellent for HD (some noise for SD).

I'm thinking of returning this tv. I have about 1 day left before it's mine for good. I got it at Sears, extended warranty.

Any suggestions, similar experience?:
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post #546 of 5249 Old 06-18-2008, 05:31 AM
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I'm totally confused re. the cable box, 16:9 vs 4:3, etc. You told the cable guy you wanted it at 4:3?

Anyway let's think about what you're seeing. There's a 2" wide vertical bar on the left side of the screen. You describe it as "black". Is it literally black, as in no image at all? Or is it displaying the picture, just a shade darker than the rest of the screen?

If it's the latter, how could it have gotten there? You say you've been watching full screen content exclusively, so no pillar box bars right?

If that is the case, then it can't be IR or burn in, because the set hasn't displayed anything with that pattern that would cause it. It's not like a station logo, or the 4:3 pillar box bar pattern.

So what else could it be? Possibly a random failure in the panel, I don't know anything about how they work that would explain what you see, but it could be something goofy like that.

The other possibility is that it's a shadow. On my set, when the recessed lighting in the room is bright, the bezel casts a well defined shadow across the top ~1" of the screen, making it appear darker than the rest. Do you have a window or bright light to the left of the set?

jeff
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post #547 of 5249 Old 06-18-2008, 06:27 AM
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shoreflor before you take it back mess with the zoom settings a little bit. Sometimes you can get it set to where the image is not filling the side of the screen. So maybe the cable guy messed something up there. So try different settings and maybe even sources and see if you can get it to fill the rest of the screen.
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post #548 of 5249 Old 06-18-2008, 09:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Siryak View Post

shoreflor before you take it back mess with the zoom settings a little bit. Sometimes you can get it set to where the image is not filling the side of the screen. So maybe the cable guy messed something up there. So try different settings and maybe even sources and see if you can get it to fill the rest of the screen.

Yep..this sounds screwy.

Also try playing a DVD or, even better, a break-in disc. The solid color will show of that black bar if its there. Try it at night and if you don't see a problem then at least its not your panel.

Could be a bad signal from you cable box or some other odd setting.

Your cable box should be set to 16:9 with, ideally, gray as a default for letter/pillar box. You mentioned that you asked to cable guy to set it to 4:3, but that seems wrong, so hopefully you meant the opposite.

I would also use the Displays aspect controls exclusively rather than that of your cable or dvr.

Keep us apprised of how things go...
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post #549 of 5249 Old 06-18-2008, 05:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JCBoomer View Post

That's really disappointing to read. I've stated before (maybe on this thread?) that I feel uneven wear from 4:3 material is still the biggest danger in regards to burn-in. I assumed the gray bars would eliminate this risk, but I guess not. I doubt Panny would cover that, but it won't hurt to ask.

You may search through the Burn-in thread on the CRT Projection TV's. It seems like I read on there at one time about someone making a static image where the static was just on the sides of the 4:3 that they would run over night with the contrast turned up to even the wear out. What you are going to have to do is display an image on the edges where the bars were, and not in the middle. Maybe a calibrator or someone with more technical knowledge than I will chime in.

im in the exact same boat as you brother....just noticed it on my 14 month old 50 inch panny. dang side bars are lighter and show up on light colord back grounds , skys etc....been running the break in dvd for a few days and it seems to be just a tad better....maybe..
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post #550 of 5249 Old 06-19-2008, 04:48 AM
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Thank you all for your feedback. here's the latest.

1. It's morning. and black bar is visible on left side only. It's visible even when I use zoom.
2. Turned off tv last night. I know I had heard the tv go "click" and saw no red light. Noticed tv was on this morning. Cable box was off, but tv was on! Could this have caused it even without a signal?
3. Tried running scrolling bar. No change. Do not want to use it too much because it can affect image (even Panasonic tech says that -note it's not in service manual). Read about burn-in dvd - next step to get it or return tv- two days left until 1 month is up.
4. I think it is the panel itself, although cable guy did screw up settings. Note that at night I still get great PQ (saw Gladiator and could see beads of sweat on Maximus' face). Bar not visible.
5. Moved tv to different angle to test for shadows. Bar still there.

By the way, if I see any black bars on sides or top/bottom, it's zoom time.
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post #551 of 5249 Old 06-19-2008, 09:02 AM
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Daniel Son

works perfect now


THANK YOU!
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post #552 of 5249 Old 06-19-2008, 09:36 AM
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Hi there!

I want to let you know that I am very profoundly deaf. I can't hear anythings. but My eyes can read everything as A TO Z or One to Zillions.. ha.. anyway, I purchased the VIZIO Plasma HDTV 42in on 6-12-2008. I watch VPHDTV42 for a week. You know that I am very demand the Closed Caption on TV all times.

I admit you that I recently research and resource it on internet. I actually read all posts of page 1 thru 19. This is interesting indeed! that there and this are hardly evidence of documents about severe burn-in permanently.

Wait, wait a minute..ACTUALLY I just find the true evidence what I saw it with my own eyes right now. I just want my plasma tv to clean a ghost/ faint images by Image Cleaner. Anyhow I immediately notify some multi red/ vinyl squares as something wrong on white screen (for image cleaner). I walked close plasma screen to see it, I am like "thats good sufficient of evidence" and in my mind: I knew this is offically SCREEN BURN-IN permanent for lifetime.

look some pictures of below:












So Now I know what different between IR and Screen Burn-IN.

Sorry my english is bad, due I am deaf and using the fluent ASL. However You using your own logic and commonsene.
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post #553 of 5249 Old 06-20-2008, 12:37 AM
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Thanks, daniel'son. I was lost without you. 9G Kuro coming tomorrow, and now i have my break in DVD ready!!!!
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post #554 of 5249 Old 06-20-2008, 11:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FARBES View Post

Hi there!

I want to let you know that I am very profoundly deaf. I can't hear anythings. but My eyes can read everything as A TO Z or One to Zillions.. ha.. anyway, I purchased the VIZIO Plasma HDTV 42in on 6-12-2008. I watch VPHDTV42 for a week. You know that I am very demand the Closed Caption on TV all times.

I admit you that I recently research and resource it on internet. I actually read all posts of page 1 thru 19. This is interesting indeed! that there and this are hardly evidence of documents about severe burn-in permanently.

Wait, wait a minute..ACTUALLY I just find the true evidence what I saw it with my own eyes right now. I just want my plasma tv to clean a ghost/ faint images by Image Cleaner. Anyhow I immediately notify some multi red/ vinyl squares as something wrong on white screen (for image cleaner). I walked close plasma screen to see it, I am like "thats good sufficient of evidence" and in my mind: I knew this is offically SCREEN BURN-IN permanent for lifetime.

So Now I know what different between IR and Screen Burn-IN.

Sorry my english is bad, due I am deaf and using the fluent ASL. However You using your own logic and commonsene.

I'm sorry for your troubles. If you purchased your Vizio from a retail store, I certainly would suggest you return it. Even if the images you posted end up being IR and eventually fade, I'm not sure Plasma is the best choice for you. IMO, a reputable dealer would have steered you towards a DLP or LCD solution since you will be using CC all the time. The high contrast between black background and white letters along with the ever present black box will spell nothing but trouble for even the most IR resistent Plasma displays.
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post #555 of 5249 Old 06-20-2008, 11:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skyroach View Post

Thanks, daniel'son. I was lost without you. 9G Kuro coming tomorrow, and now i have my break in DVD ready!!!!

FYI, you probably don't need it.
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post #556 of 5249 Old 06-20-2008, 10:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Razman View Post

Add me to the list. I have a 5010 and i have seen it on a all white screen. I do not notice it in regular viewing.

I have a Panny 42PZ80u, and I notice this as well. Actually, the saga went like this:

I got the TV and noticed the slight "banding", so I assumed something was wrong. I called Panasonic and had them send someone out to take a look. They said they'd switch the panel, which took about a week, but all that resulted in, on top of not fixing the faint cloudiness, was a host of dead and stuck pixel problems (I have a feeling they weren't careful when they placed the new panel in -- either that, or they swapped in a dud). After that, I got Amazon (where I originally purchased from) to just send me a new set. It came today, and I turned it on to find a few very slight spots of banding and uneven picture (only 1 stuck pixel though!).

Since I've experienced this through three panels, I can only conclude that it's a normal occurrence with the technology. In addition, I was told from someone that it very well may fade as the panel ages.

In any case, I can't notice it 98% of the time while watching normal TV/movies/games, so I've decided not to let it bother me. I think we'd all do well to remember that with IR, too -- if you can only notice IR on your set by sticking your nose against the glass, it's not really a problem, is it?

One thing is for certain: none of the available TV technology is ideal for obsessive-compulsive owners. Buy the set that you are most comfortable with, and know that no display technology is without its flaws just yet.
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post #557 of 5249 Old 06-21-2008, 02:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rwr1776 View Post

I'm sorry for your troubles. If you purchased your Vizio from a retail store, I certainly would suggest you return it. Even if the images you posted end up being IR and eventually fade, I'm not sure Plasma is the best choice for you. IMO, a reputable dealer would have steered you towards a DLP or LCD solution since you will be using CC all the time. The high contrast between black background and white letters along with the ever present black box will spell nothing but trouble for even the most IR resistent Plasma displays.

rwr1776, Yes I am 100% agree with your post. thats what I did took it back and exchange it for LCD HDTV before you posted this, HA!. Now I am happy with LCD FHDTV! but thank you for feedback and suggest.

In case, If you had deaf friends who consider to get plasma TV, tell them don't get plasma and recommend them get DLP or LCD for using CC.
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post #558 of 5249 Old 06-22-2008, 06:54 AM
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I just bought a Samsung PN58A650. This is my first big screen and I went with plasma after reading various comments here. Several questions, We have been watching several movies this weekend and I noticed that most of them are in letter box format. Question: Since the set will be used mostly for movie viewing do I have to worry about IR and/or burn in? I've noticed that the Samsung has several features to either prevent or cleanup IR. Does anyone know if these really work? I guess I'm just freaking out about paying $3K+ for a TV and ruining it by using it for the purpose I bought it!!
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post #559 of 5249 Old 06-22-2008, 07:06 AM
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I have had my TH-42PX80U for about a two weeks now (still on break-in settings). I was watching an HD program that I had recorded on the state television (PBS like but not). They still use non-transparent logos ... like the only HD-channel that does lol. Anyway, the show had no commercials and the logo stayed put. After like 20 mins of programming i paused it to see what i could see with no signal running through the panel. You could see a ever so slight IR outline ... i mean slight to the point that my eyes could have been playing tricks on me. With commercials, it seems to me that logos really shouldn't be an issue. The IR wasn't even noticeable unless you put your face like a couple inches away from the screen too. The total run time was basically an hour on this logo at once spot and it went away within seconds of regular programing back on. Of course to even see it you had to be right up to the screen anyway.

I haven't really gotten back into gaming yet on the set (usually only like 20 to 30 mins burst at a time) and don't have any issues there yet.

On a side note. It used to be a couple years ago that all the plasma manufactures would say you needed a 1000 hour break-in time. Now that is down to 100 with samsung saying you don't really need it all. Do you think that plasma TV's have just gotten better ... i mean with the last few years we are now up to 60000+ hour panels ... or is this a reaction to LCD's continuing to increase their market share over plasmas?

I have no doubt that burn-in is pretty much impossible, but IR still is.

Got Plasma?!?! Crush the LCD propaganda!!

current system setup
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post #560 of 5249 Old 06-22-2008, 07:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkbb View Post

I just bought a Samsung PN58A650. This is my first big screen and I went with plasma after reading various comments here. Several questions, We have been watching several movies this weekend and I noticed that most of them are in letter box format. Question: Since the set will be used mostly for movie viewing do I have to worry about IR and/or burn in? I've noticed that the Samsung has several features to either prevent or cleanup IR. Does anyone know if these really work? I guess I'm just freaking out about paying $3K+ for a TV and ruining it by using it for the purpose I bought it!!

I have mostly been watching movies that are currently in the 1.85:1 format (or slightly less) almost exclusively until my panel is "hardened". I have read some issues of new panels having letter box issues so better safe than sorry.

Again that could also be coming from guys who have there settings too high for a new panel too soo who knows.

After 1000 hours, your phosphors will be hardened to the point that it shouldn't matter.

Got Plasma?!?! Crush the LCD propaganda!!

current system setup
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post #561 of 5249 Old 06-22-2008, 11:48 AM
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I've cross posted this in response to a brand specific question posited by someone else, but thought it belonged in this thread...so here you go.

I'm honestly curious, would you mind sharing what content you do watch and in what percentage.

I ask because it seems s that 80% of movies come "hardcoded" with black bars... thin ones for 1.85:1 moves and thick ones for 2.35:1 movies.

Now, according to my manufacturer, the display I purchased is extremely resistant to IR and uneven wear, however, the fine print in this (and every other) warranty also states that should the "impossible" occur and I end up with burn-in and/or uneven wear it's not covered.

Given that, I've been pretty gentle for the first three weeks with lower contrast settings and extremely low use of 2:35 films.

The cost for my prudence has not been trivial. My wife complains bitterly about my using the Zoom aspect during 2:35 films and makes statements like, "Why did we get this expensive Plasma if we are not going to see movies the "right" way." I tend to agree.

She understands we are in a break-in period, but if its the considered wisdom of folks who have used this technology, that watching letterboxed movies will trash my Display, then I'm in big trouble :-)

Left w/o constraints here's how I'd guess my family would use our Display.
  • 30% SD 4:3 Content stretched to 16:9 (no one seems to mind this)
  • 15% HD 16:9 Content (Hey, there just isn't that much available yet...whatcha gonna do)
  • 45% 2.35:1 Movies (The vast majority of films seem to be in this aspect)
  • 10% 1.85:1 Movies (Even these have a small bit of black bar, right?)

Thoughts....
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post #562 of 5249 Old 06-22-2008, 08:25 PM
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Got 4:3 burn-in due to a combination of my own lack of preparation, and mis-information.

After trying PixelProtector for a bit, it helped a little, but its still pretty obvious on white backgrounds or pure black (feels meaningless to have a plasma if you can see defects on black backgrounds).

So, I'm thinking of selling it at a significant loss, vs donating it to my local charity for tax-deduction. Its covered under Sears warranty, but I'm just about sure they won't replace a plasma just because it has burn-in. Any thoughts?
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post #563 of 5249 Old 06-23-2008, 10:43 AM
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How long does it takes for a IR to fade away?
I have some IR from MGS4 Hud. I only see it on black screen, totally dark and puting my nose on the display.
I tried break in dvd for around 40 min and is still there.

So my question is, how long i should wait until i can say my plasma has BI and not IR?
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post #564 of 5249 Old 06-23-2008, 12:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cvictori View Post

Got 4:3 burn-in due to a combination of my own lack of preparation, and mis-information.

After trying PixelProtector for a bit, it helped a little, but its still pretty obvious on white backgrounds or pure black (feels meaningless to have a plasma if you can see defects on black backgrounds).

So, I'm thinking of selling it at a significant loss, vs donating it to my local charity for tax-deduction. Its covered under Sears warranty, but I'm just about sure they won't replace a plasma just because it has burn-in. Any thoughts?

having the same issue as you due to 4:3 viewing, its only noticeable on very light screen such as a hockey game ect. blacks arent bad at all, i have been using pixel protector dvd also. very slight difference from it. how long have you been using it and which settings are you using on the dvd? i have been zooming all sd and even hd formats that have black bars. will phosfor wear even out eventually on its own as long as there is full screen viewing content?? anyone have any thoughts?
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post #565 of 5249 Old 06-23-2008, 02:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by booker21 View Post

How long does it takes for a IR to fade away?
I have some IR from MGS4 Hud. I only see it on black screen, totally dark and puting my nose on the display.
I tried break in dvd for around 40 min and is still there.

So my question is, how long i should wait until i can say my plasma has BI and not IR?

It depends on many things: the hours you have on the TV, what brand it is and your settings. I have a Pioneer 4270 with maybe 2500 hours on it and I still get IR every time I game for a couple of hours. I put three hours on MGS4 just the other night and the IR from the Huds faded away after about 10 minutes. I could only slightly see it on a blank input with my face right up to the glass though, so I'm really not as concerned about it as I used to be. MGS4 should be one of the best games for not producing IR though. You game for 60 minutes and then watch a 15 minute cut scene. Watch something bright for a while and check it again.
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post #566 of 5249 Old 06-23-2008, 04:08 PM
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Hello folks. Just downloaded/ripped the break-in DVD, in anticipation of purchasing/installing the PRO-151FD. Many thanks to those who created & made it available to everyone.
My question is, should I use my PS3 or a regular DVD player to run this disk for the continuous 8-9 day period? I'm a little concerned about excessive wear (due to heat build-up) if I use my 40G PS3 and run it for 8-9 straight days. My PS3 sits in a very open area, so it's well ventilated. I really don't care about my regular DVD player, since I do not use it anymore.
Any suggestions?
Thanks.

Regards,
Pete
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post #567 of 5249 Old 06-23-2008, 07:46 PM
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Personally, I question the wisdom of running either of them for that length of time. There has been more than one occasion where the playback device failed resulting in irreparable problems.

Just two examples of several: first had someone's DVD player freeze on a single color frame, thus creating significant unequal phosphor wear for that particular color. Second had the playback device freezing with a high contrast error message displayed resulting, ironically, in the very situation the owner sought to prevent with the break-in disc.

Others may disagree, but if you plan to leave you Display on unattended, I'd suggest something like HDNet or Discover HD, both of which are well regarded for their display friendly bugs and content.
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post #568 of 5249 Old 06-23-2008, 09:37 PM
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Originally Posted by flip034 View Post

having the same issue as you due to 4:3 viewing, its only noticeable on very light screen such as a hockey game ect. blacks arent bad at all, i have been using pixel protector dvd also. very slight difference from it. how long have you been using it and which settings are you using on the dvd? i have been zooming all sd and even hd formats that have black bars. will phosfor wear even out eventually on its own as long as there is full screen viewing content?? anyone have any thoughts?

So, I ran the 'snow' screen about 5 or 6 times so far and left it on overnight. That helped a little. Then I tried the color wash for about 3 tries also overnight with a little relief. I used to believe that eventually the phosphors would even out eventually, but its still pretty noticeable. Even tried the white wash a couple of times. I've basically done all of the washes but have shot my brightness and picture up to >90% each. Also tried the route of using DiscoverHD channel and leaving it on all night a few times. That didn't do too much. Good luck with your TV though!
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post #569 of 5249 Old 06-24-2008, 05:46 AM
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Thanks, guys. I realize there is some inherent risk in running the break-in disk, especially if you experience some malfunction during unattended playback (which I just realize is only about 6 days instead of 8 days). I'm willing to take the risk that my equipment won't fail on me. However, I'll be buying the PRO-151 from BB/Magnolia. Therefore, in the unlikely event that something does go wrong, I will probably just return the set. One of the benefits of buying locally from a B&M with a 30-day satisfaction return policy.

Hope someone who has come across this same minor dilemma (using the PS3 vs a regular DVD player) will chime in.

Regards,
Pete
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post #570 of 5249 Old 06-24-2008, 06:17 AM
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Use the DVD player...less stuff to break.
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