Master Burn-In/IR/Break In Thread Part II: All Posts Here Only - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 5306 Old 01-16-2008, 04:27 PM
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I keep hearing people talk about breaking in the plasma for IR (infrared?). What exactly is it that makes it bad and does all plasmas have it because I also see where people are saying they can view almost out of the box.
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post #32 of 5306 Old 01-16-2008, 04:38 PM
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After reading this I am now scrared to death about fudging up my plasma.

Limit gaming to 10% of total viewing for the first 1,000 hours? Are you kidding me?
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post #33 of 5306 Old 01-17-2008, 11:35 AM
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I am using the burn-in dvd on my Panasonic TH-42PX75U. I have noticed that on light colored screens there is a thin green line on the right edge of the screen and one purple line on the left edge of the screen. This appears to go away on darker colored screens. I have the TV in zoom mode. Further increasing the zoom with the dvd player doesn't eliminate the colored lines so I don't think it's an aspect issue. Using a different dvd player didn't change it so it must be the TV.

Does anyone else notice these lines on their screen during break-in? Is there any possible remedy? I'm concerned that the uneven aging of the phosphors on the edges will lead to lines there permanently.
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post #34 of 5306 Old 01-18-2008, 09:37 AM
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mn ,.
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post #35 of 5306 Old 01-18-2008, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hunter111 View Post

I am using the burn-in dvd on my Panasonic TH-42PX75U. I have noticed that on light colored screens there is a thin green line on the right edge of the screen and one purple line on the left edge of the screen. This appears to go away on darker colored screens. I have the TV in zoom mode. Further increasing the zoom with the dvd player doesn't eliminate the colored lines so I don't think it's an aspect issue. Using a different dvd player didn't change it so it must be the TV.

Does anyone else notice these lines on their screen during break-in? Is there any possible remedy? I'm concerned that the uneven aging of the phosphors on the edges will lead to lines there permanently.

I'd worry too ...

Just as an experiment, try changing cables between your DVD player and TV. For example, if you're using HDMI now, try switching to component or even S-video connections. Also, if your TV has more than one of a given input (component, for example), try switching to a different input. If there's a problem anywhere between your DVD player and your TV, maybe this will isolate it ...
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post #36 of 5306 Old 01-21-2008, 06:12 PM
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Hi everyone...new to the forum but a long time reader.

Unfortunately, as my screen name indicates, I did not read enough because I missed the 3 simple rules for plasma tv break-in;
1 - Limit watching programs in 4:3
2 - Set the side bars to grey for instances when you do watch 4:3 programming
3 - Decrease the brightness/contrast settings

The end result is that I have noticable screen burn-in during wide screen HD programming. I am really frustrated because this is a brand new (3 weeks old) Samsung FP-T5884 and I already have burn-in. So now...the questions;

1 - I have read quite a bit and there seems to be no 'solid' way of rectifying this. I have seen folks talk about running the screen wipe and white screen tools for hours at a time as well as an idea to produce a reverse image (white bars on the outside and black within) however, the latter seems risky regarding duration, alignment, etc. Has anyone had success with a particular method? I did see a product out there called JScreenFix - anyone have experience with it?

2 - In an effort to reduce the effect, is it best to change my side bars to grey for 4:3 viewing or use the stretch feature or will neither do the trick?

3 - As I am about 150 hours in, do I need to still reduce my contrast/brightness settings? If so, will this decrease my chances of making it fade by utilizing either of the methods above?

4 - Best Buy has a 30 day return policy. I realize that burn-in is not a warranty issue however, all of research beforehand spoke about how plasma technology has evolved and burn-in instances are minimal. If I simp,y tell Best Buy that I am not happy with it and want a replacement, will this fly?

Sorry for the long post and questions however, I am really frustrated and can use some sound advice....
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post #37 of 5306 Old 01-21-2008, 09:18 PM
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Run the scrolling white bar screen b/c it's prob just image retention.
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post #38 of 5306 Old 01-22-2008, 04:38 AM
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Thanks brentsg.

The tools I have are a static white screen or a screen wipe which is a cycle of blacks->greys->whites that moves right to left. In the Samsung manual, it claims that the wipe is more effective than the static white. For the past 2 nights, I have turned this on and then set the tv sleep timer for 2 hours. So far, I have seen very little improvement. Is 2 hours long enough or do I need to keep doing this for a few more days?
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post #39 of 5306 Old 01-22-2008, 06:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by burnbitten View Post

The tools I have are a static white screen or a screen wipe which is a cycle of blacks->greys->whites that moves right to left. In the Samsung manual, it claims that the wipe is more effective than the static white. For the past 2 nights, I have turned this on and then set the tv sleep timer for 2 hours. So far, I have seen very little improvement. Is 2 hours long enough or do I need to keep doing this for a few more days?

Here's a whole thread devoted to the JScreenFix utility:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=966195

This is certainly worth a try. You can either play this utility from a computer, or go to their "screen fixing videos" link and download a DVD image file and burn it to a disc. Try this for a few hours with your TV set at one of the higher brightness & contrast presets (such as "dynamic"). Make sure you're "zoomed" to fill the screen! See if it helps; if so, continue ....

Good luck!
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post #40 of 5306 Old 01-22-2008, 09:02 AM
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All (almost all, maybe) phosphors age. This means that the brightness per drive voltage will decrease in the begining of the use of the phosphor. There is a quick drop of the brightness/voltage curve and then it settles out for the long run. The idea in all of this break-in is to prevent any set of phosphors to be used longer than the rest. If an image (especially in white) is left on longer than the rest of the display, somewhere between hour 1 and hour 1000, the brightness can/will drop when compared to the rest of the display. Despite all the new technologies the plasma mfgs are using (lower drive levels, better phosphors, etc) this aging or phosphor settling is something to watch for.

There is nothing run with plasma sets, once one understands the physics, you can relax. Remember the CRT is as, if not more susceptable to burn-in than other technologies and we have been living with them for years.
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post #41 of 5306 Old 01-22-2008, 10:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DBLASS View Post

All (almost all, maybe) phosphors age. This means that the brightness per drive voltage will decrease in the begining of the use of the phosphor. There is a quick drop of the brightness/voltage curve and then it settles out for the long run. The idea in all of this break-in is to prevent any set of phosphors to be used longer than the rest. If an image (especially in white) is left on longer than the rest of the display, somewhere between hour 1 and hour 1000, the brightness can/will drop when compared to the rest of the display. Despite all the new technologies the plasma mfgs are using (lower drive levels, better phosphors, etc) this aging or phosphor settling is something to watch for.

There is nothing run with plasma sets, once one understands the physics, you can relax. Remember the CRT is as, if not more susceptable to burn-in than other technologies and we have been living with them for years.

As far, as I know, phosphors of CRTs are actually much less susceptible to IR or burn-in, because cathod rays are much gentler to them than ultraviolet light, emitted from gas in every micro cell of the display in PDP.
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post #42 of 5306 Old 01-22-2008, 11:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DBLASS View Post

All (almost all, maybe) phosphors age. This means that the brightness per drive voltage will decrease in the begining of the use of the phosphor. There is a quick drop of the brightness/voltage curve and then it settles out for the long run. Despite all the new technologies the plasma mfgs are using (lower drive levels, better phosphors, etc) this aging or phosphor settling is something to watch for.

There is nothing run with plasma sets, once one understands the physics, you can relax. Remember the CRT is as, if not more susceptable to burn-in than other technologies and we have been living with them for years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fogey View Post

As far, as I know, phosphors of CRTs are actually much less susceptible to IR or burn-in, because cathod rays are much gentler to them than ultraviolet light, emitted from gas in every micro cell of the display in PDP.

The IR and BI issue regarding PDP is rather controversial in my mind. I personally have developed some controversial beliefs in this matter based on scientific data. I also try to not push these beliefs too hard on others as the masses can get angry

But, in the name of science, I'll just provide some counterpoints.

1 - PDP phosphors are pre-baked in the manufacturing plant and this baking effectively pre-ages the phosphor (decreases luminence) which is supposed to eliminate the initial steep aging period.

2 - Actual lilfetime plots on PDPs or their individual phosphors are hard to find (especially recent data), but there is data showing that the initial steep phosphor aging may be a thing of the past.

http://www.displayconsultants.com/presentation/spie.swf

High Xenon content PDPs generate lower energy photons that do not degrade the phosphor very quickly and thus lead to much longer life expectancy.

3 - IR is temporary and thus logically suggests that phosphor aging is not the cause. If so how can it be temporary?

4 - IR is explained in science journals as being related to wall charge accumulation and MgO vapor deposition. Both are reversible.

Over thinking, over analyzing separates the body from the mind
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post #43 of 5306 Old 01-23-2008, 03:48 AM
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If the Plasma has been run in for around 100+ hours and a DVD title menu is left on for an hour or 2 hours and the plasma goes into dim mode will there still be burn in? The TV is Panasonic 42 PZ700 and its settining were 35-40% contrast and similar for brightness and on top of that the TV goes into Dim mode i.e. automatically lowers the brightness after a static image has been displayed.


Do Panasonic run in there TV sets at the factory stage for 100 hours?

Lets say that there is no burn in but would leaving a static image on in the break in period for a duration result in making the set more susceptible to retain images in the future?

Regarding the post above about phosper aging, as the DVD title menu was mostly white would the phospers that make the colour white have aged significantly more than the rest and is 2 hours of playing just one colour enougth to age it more so than others?


I have seen the posts of some very experienced posters like xrox and Randy and many more and would appreciate your opinion, and would like to hear from users who have left a static image on for a duration and had it cleared after normal viewing? Bare in mind i mean if a static image is left on during the break in period.



thanks
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post #44 of 5306 Old 01-23-2008, 11:42 AM
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I know it's probably redundant, but I'm looking at the Kuro PRO-150FD as a replacement for my blooming Mits DLP. However, I am a pretty big gamer and that's where my concern with burn-in lies.

On a given week, my family and I probably put 20 hours of gaming (PS3 and 360), six hours of ultra widescreen movies, and maybe 10 hours of stretched SD or HD broadcasts...more during football season.

While I don't game for extremely long periods, I do frequently play for three hours or so at a time (the length of a good movie).

I know that plasma technology has improved, and to my eyes the Kuro is the best display I've ever seen. However, the whole burn-in issue is the big sticking point. We'll run the break-in DVD for a 100 hours or so, we keep our settings "correct", but I'm clueless about the orbiter (what does this do?) and whether my gaming will kill this display. I play several types of games, from sports and shooters to story based RPG's and Lego games with my son.

HELP!
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post #45 of 5306 Old 01-29-2008, 09:02 AM
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I'm coming up on the end of my 30 day "no questions" asked return period with BB.

I want to make sure I have NO dead pixels on my 42PZ700. Having searched this thread on a number of key words, it appears the only way to test for this is Evangelo2's Break In DVD. Is this correct? I tried to burn the Break In DVD last night on a friend's computer and it failed.

Does AVIA provide a similar capability with their calibration disk?

Thanks in advance for your responses

Cheers,

- Alan
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post #46 of 5306 Old 01-29-2008, 11:40 AM
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Tooalan: The Avia Disc has some color screens that you can use for checking dead pixels or stuck on ones... I


All: I just picked up a 5080 and is there a test disc to use for this? I only have watched a few movies some in widescreen mode. I have put the TV on auto enlarge, and it seems to work very well on cable etc. I just popped in a movie for my Son who is home "Open Season" and it says aspect ration is 1:85 and my BD player is set to 16:9 or 16:9 Full and it still seems like the screen size is off a tad, seems more of a movie issue or Blu-Ray/TV settings. I also noticed a slight border of pixels that are black around the TV, is this the way the Pioneer is made? Thanks....
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post #47 of 5306 Old 01-29-2008, 12:12 PM
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dumb question: When watching a movie, blue ray what have you, and the widescreen bars fill it up, one on the top and one on the bottom, does that lead to burn in?

So do i have to zoom in on all films that have this?
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post #48 of 5306 Old 01-29-2008, 08:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lice View Post

dumb question: When watching a movie, blue ray what have you, and the widescreen bars fill it up, one on the top and one on the bottom, does that lead to burn in?

So do i have to zoom in on all films that have this?

Its recommended that you watch full screen no borders for the first few houndred hours as some people have complained that they can see the lines of where the borders were. From what i have read to age the phospers evenly it should be full screen.
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post #49 of 5306 Old 01-30-2008, 04:06 PM
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I have a Panasonic 58" plasma (its the 600u). My son played his Xbox 360 on it for a couple of months. There is one spot that has either IR or burn in Iam not sure which. I can only see it when there is a light color on the TV. I have disconected the Xbox 360 from the TV for about 2 weeks but the problem is still there. Does this sound like burn in or can it be fixed? Thanks in advance for any help.
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post #50 of 5306 Old 01-31-2008, 05:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rams219 View Post

I have a Panasonic 58" plasma (its the 600u). My son played his Xbox 360 on it for a couple of months. There is one spot that has either IR or burn in Iam not sure which. I can only see it when there is a light color on the TV. I have disconected the Xbox 360 from the TV for about 2 weeks but the problem is still there. Does this sound like burn in or can it be fixed? Thanks in advance for any help.

Did he play the same thing on the 360 for months or did he mix his games up? Was the TV used for anything else other then 360 games? Movies, TV shows? If he played one game for months without changing it up any, it could be burn in. If he mixed it up, played various games, watched a movie, watched TV, etc. then it is IR and can go away.

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post #51 of 5306 Old 01-31-2008, 02:41 PM
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He played the one game a lot but we did watch TV and played some other games. What can I do to try to get rid of it?
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post #52 of 5306 Old 02-03-2008, 08:49 PM
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Okay first of all, great info in this and the other thread (although I cant read all 100 pages of it prior to getting my tv).

Is there an issue with hanging the plasma on a wall bracket right out of the box? I read someones post in the other thread saying they were breaking it in on the tv stand prior to hanging it. Why? I will do this if it is recommended, but I would much rather hang it immediately.


Also, burn-in is obviously a huge concern. However, I would prefer to not mindlessly run the burn-in prevention dvd for 100 hrs or whatever if I don't have to. As long as I only watch full screen tv, I should be okay with burn in right?

So, you're saying there's a chance?
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post #53 of 5306 Old 02-04-2008, 05:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rams219 View Post

He played the one game a lot but we did watch TV and played some other games. What can I do to try to get rid of it?

Run the break in DVD or watch full screen HD content for a couple weeks.

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post #54 of 5306 Old 02-04-2008, 05:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muckrak3r View Post

Also, burn-in is obviously a huge concern. However, I would prefer to not mindlessly run the burn-in prevention dvd for 100 hrs or whatever if I don't have to. As long as I only watch full screen tv, I should be okay with burn in right?

As long as it doesn't have a static logo nad it is full screen HD content, yes, you should be fine.

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post #55 of 5306 Old 02-04-2008, 01:09 PM
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Quote:
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As long as it doesn't have a static logo nad it is full screen HD content, yes, you should be fine.

I have the Dish ViP 722. It will be HD content sent to this back room tv via coax. It will be downscaled to 480P, but will be full screen. Does it actually have to be full HD content? I can't imagine that would matter since it will be full screen.

edit: I don't care how big the tv is, I can't stand 4:3 content. It seems so odd.

So, you're saying there's a chance?
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post #56 of 5306 Old 02-18-2008, 06:00 AM
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I have a question. I am convinvced that I am going to buy a plasma yet last night while I was watching TV, I noticed that all of my local stations put a semi transparent station logo someplace on the viewing screen and they never move. NBC peacock was in the upper right corner, CBS was in the lower right corner, my local ABC station was in the lower left corner.

All of these are what I would call semi-transparent.

So my question is-what is the impact of these stationary logo's having a "burn in" effect with plasma's. If I watch NBC all night, am I going to have a NBC Peacock burn't in to the upper right part of the screen?

Thanks
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post #57 of 5306 Old 02-18-2008, 06:22 AM
 
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If I watch NBC all night, am I going to have a NBC Peacock burn't in to the upper right part of the screen?

No, with frequent commercial interruptions, station logos are not displayed long enough to generate IR, unless the only channel you watch happens to be NBC.

Vary your viewing habits & watch as much full screen content as possible to eliminate any risk of permanent (a.k.a. burn in) image retention.

Plasma Facts and Myths Panasonic Presents Advice From the Video Purist Perspective
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post #58 of 5306 Old 02-20-2008, 07:26 PM
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how low does the contrast and brightness has to be?
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post #59 of 5306 Old 02-22-2008, 08:35 AM
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I am still a little confused about things.
The main thing is watching standard TV in 4x3 or letterboxed movies.
If I watch an hour or two of TV a day at 4x3 or a few letterboxed movies a week (few=2 or 4) will I have IR problems? Will I have uneven wear on the phosphor or will it not be significant enough for say 5 years (the length of time I will probably have this set).

I've read all the things and even a new article that burn-in etc is not an issue any more and yet here is a page from Pioneer in with my set telling me to avoid running the TV in 4x3 or watching letterboxed movies. But I didn't really buy the TV to watch my movies all stretched out of shape.

And I never really see any figures of how long it would take before you will see IR or uneven wear.

I am not very worried but am certainly very confused.

Please un-confuse me!

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post #60 of 5306 Old 02-22-2008, 12:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schugh View Post

I am still a little confused about things.
The main thing is watching standard TV in 4x3 or letterboxed movies.
If I watch an hour or two of TV a day at 4x3 or a few letterboxed movies a week (few=2 or 4) will I have IR problems? Will I have uneven wear on the phosphor or will it not be significant enough for say 5 years (the length of time I will probably have this set).

I've read all the things and even a new article that burn-in etc is not an issue any more and yet here is a page from Pioneer in with my set telling me to avoid running the TV in 4x3 or watching letterboxed movies. But I didn't really buy the TV to watch my movies all stretched out of shape.

And I never really see any figures of how long it would take before you will see IR or uneven wear.

I am not very worried but am certainly very confused.

Please un-confuse me!

Overtime you will see uneven wear. Think about it, it really is straightforward. If the pixels at the top or sides are not displaying anything (they are black) but the rest of the TV has color then the areas not getting anything are going to wear different then the rest of the TV. Over time this will be come noticeable on an all black screen. Does it impact picture quality, I don't think so because these TV's display such a high brightness, color, etc. that you are not going to notice anything. If you do it extensively then over time you will notice it even on full screen, HD content, say like a white screen with ice/snow or something.

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