Master Burn-In/IR/Break In Thread Part II: All Posts Here Only - Page 22 - AVS Forum
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post #631 of 5254 Old 07-04-2008, 09:32 PM
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So, here's a question for folks. Take a look at the attached picture.

The Jackasses at Channel 2 want to be sure you remember who is providing live coverage of the local fireworks so were kind enough to include this torch bright logo on their screen.

I was outside going... "Ooooo....ahhhhh" while this thing played inside for about an hour.

Afterwards, I saw my first IR ever. I could see the image of that "2" on both solid black and solid white backgrounds, but not during normal viewing. The image faded gradually over about 5 minutes until it was completely gone.

The question is, how does that fare....average...better...worse than others experiences...

Here's the pic...
LL
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post #632 of 5254 Old 07-04-2008, 10:38 PM
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I hate TV station logos. I can understand why they use them, but I still hate them because they are distracting to me... None of our channels are that obvious, though.

"Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read." - Groucho Marx
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post #633 of 5254 Old 07-07-2008, 04:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Aetherhole View Post

I hate TV station logos. I can understand why they use them, but I still hate them because they are distracting to me... None of our channels are that obvious, though.

i think i got BI :-(

how long should i run signal pattern before called BI?
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post #634 of 5254 Old 07-08-2008, 08:37 AM
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Originally Posted by booker21 View Post

i think i got BI :-(

how long should i run signal pattern before called BI?

Uh oh...what Display do you have and what caused the, let's be optimistic for now, IR?

According to my MFR, 40 minutes of whitewash should remove anything, YMMV. So far the longest its taken is 5, but I'd really need to hear your situation to know if it was similar.
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post #635 of 5254 Old 07-08-2008, 08:44 AM
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Originally Posted by rwr1776 View Post

Uh oh...what Display do you have and what caused the, let's be optimistic for now, IR?

According to my MFR, 40 minutes of whitewash should remove anything, YMMV. So far the longest its taken is 5, but I'd really need to hear your situation to know if it was similar.

i have a samsung hp4254. I played MGS4, i can still see the life hud and the lower bottom gun hud.

i left the scrolling signal for around 5hs yesterday, maybe more, while it´s still there, it´s fading away. I will keep using it 3-4hs today and tomorrow, if is IR it should go away by then. if not i guess i got BI.

i game 3-4hs on this set, i did the break in period, 100hs. What it´s funny is i played many games after the break in period, and the only Hud visible is MGS4. I even played and finished Battlefield, which has WHITE Hud and even that faded away.
i´m using really low contrast setting, 65%. while i saw many with 80% or more.

weird.

i didn`t use scrolling feature that much before yesterday, maybe that was my mistake. This is why i want to completely erease any kind of IR. This way from now on, after any long gaming session i´ll leave scrolling feature running for 90 min. But before i need to clear the MGS4 IR(hopefully).
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post #636 of 5254 Old 07-08-2008, 08:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rwr1776 View Post

So, here's a question for folks. Take a look at the attached picture.

The Jackasses at Channel 2 want to be sure you remember who is providing live coverage of the local fireworks so were kind enough to include this torch bright logo on their screen.

I was outside going... "Ooooo....ahhhhh" while this thing played inside for about an hour.

Afterwards, I saw my first IR ever. I could see the image of that "2" on both solid black and solid white backgrounds, but not during normal viewing. The image faded gradually over about 5 minutes until it was completely gone.

The question is, how does that fare....average...better...worse than others experiences...

Here's the pic...

It looks like you have the same TV as me. I have a 50PG20... I know you have an LG for sure.

Anyway, I am still working at getting rid of the history channel logo burn-in, IR, whatever the hell you want to call it. Pretty upset, because the History Channel HD only gets about 20% of my viewing, yet that is the only logo that I can see on a completely dark or white background.

There is nothing wrong with the TV, either, the problem is these stations keeping on a solid, non transparent logo that gives uneven phospher wear. Basically, once I get this fixed (if I get it fixed) there will be no more History Channel HD until they change their damn logo. It is frustrating because they are one of the few stations that have sold a bold logo that stays on nearly the entire time.

This has been a eye-opener for me. While there is very little real world problems with what I am experiencing, it does bother me to know that I have the image in the screen. If I were to say, watch a dark movie, or a scene that gets all white (flash bang, or something) you would see it. Again, real world scenario isn't serious. But it is still frustrating.

This also isn't just 'IR' as other forms of IR pretty much are gone in seconds. Hell, even when I play super nintendo, Super Mario World for like 2 hours straight (static images all over) the IR clears up fast... But not the History Channel! Nope, that bitch of a logo wants to remain there and go with you wherever you go! Ok, done with my rant...

Edit ** Just wanted to state that I believe station logos are more harmful to your plasma than playing video games. Why? Well, most video games you play and you beat. Ok, so 40 hours broken up over several sessions and then you are done with that game. Since every game has a different place for these static images, you can be relatively sure it won't cause any long term problems. But a station logo! Yes, a station logo will get many more hours depending on your viewing habits. Like to watch iceroad truckers? Or Axemen? Or Universe? Or all the great programs that the history channel has to offer? Well, you will rack up, far far far more than 40 hours and that bold bitch of a logo is going to keep burning away the life of those phosphers. Yep, I strongly believe that bold non-transparent station logos are more harmful that video games on a Plasma TV.
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post #637 of 5254 Old 07-08-2008, 09:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by booker21 View Post

i have a samsung hp4254. I played MGS4, i can still see the life hud and the lower bottom gun hud.

i left the scrolling signal for around 5hs yesterday, maybe more, while it´s still there, it´s fading away. I will keep using it 3-4hs today and tomorrow, if is IR it should go away by then. if not i guess i got BI.

i game 3-4hs on this set, i did the break in period, 100hs. What it´s funny is i played many games after the break in period, and the only Hud visible is MGS4. I even played and finished Battlefield, which has WHITE Hud and even that faded away.
i´m using really low contrast setting, 65%. while i saw many with 80% or more.

weird.

i didn`t use scrolling feature that much before yesterday, maybe that was my mistake. This is why i want to completely erease any kind of IR. This way from now on, after any long gaming session i´ll leave scrolling feature running for 90 min. But before i need to clear the MGS4 IR(hopefully).

i´m happy to announce, after 3hs of Signal pattern, today the hud faded away 90% yupi !
It was IR after all.
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post #638 of 5254 Old 07-08-2008, 09:13 PM
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IR goes away... it's called Image Retention, because it retains it for a short period... Burn-in is what you have...

~
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post #639 of 5254 Old 07-08-2008, 09:21 PM
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Originally Posted by ArchAngelGabriel View Post

Anyway, I am still working at getting rid of the history channel logo burn-in, IR, whatever the hell you want to call it. Pretty upset, because the History Channel HD only gets about 20% of my viewing, yet that is the only logo that I can see on a completely dark or white background.

I hope that you write a complaint letter to the History Channel. If enough people let them know that they are ruining TVs, they might listen.
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post #640 of 5254 Old 07-08-2008, 09:42 PM
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I have a question regarding breaking in a plasma: if you are using the break in disc intermittently between movie and TV watching, should you count the time you spend watching movies and TV as part of the 150 hour break in if you are only going to be watching full screen content? Or should only the time that the disc is playing count towards the 150 hours?

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post #641 of 5254 Old 07-08-2008, 09:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by booker21 View Post

i´m happy to announce, after 3hs of Signal pattern, today the hud faded away 90% yupi !
It was IR after all.

You'd think with more than half the game being cinematics, MGS4 would burn in the mission briefing screen rather than the HUD.

It isn't the size of the disk that counts, but how you use it.

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post #642 of 5254 Old 07-08-2008, 09:50 PM
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Originally Posted by KillerSpaz View Post

IR goes away... it's called Image Retention, because it retains it for a short period... Burn-in is what you have...

you are wrong.
BI don´t go away...
IR there are short IR and Long IR.. i had a very long one.
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post #643 of 5254 Old 07-08-2008, 09:52 PM
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Originally Posted by 30XS955 User View Post

You'd think with more than half the game being cinematics, MGS4 would burn in the mission briefing screen rather than the HUD.

yeah, if there was one game i would think it would be safe to play was MGS4,i mean, with all cinematics, etc...

on the other hand i played battlefield and finished, white hud.. and that went away pretty fast.
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post #644 of 5254 Old 07-09-2008, 01:49 AM
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Oh I wish i had found this place sooner. Already learned a whole lot more i didn't know about burn in and image retention.

I just got (as in not even 12 hours ago) a Samsung PN50A550 which after way too much research and staring at all the tvs in many a different store, i found was the best for the size i was after and for the price i was hoping to pay. I got it home and of course went right to enjoying HD for the first time. I have had the same 27inch CRT for going on 8 years now, and before that it was an even smaller one, this is a really big upgrade for me.

Anyways, getting side tracked. I knew about IR and BI and knew about some of the tools built in the tv to help fight it. I thought that was all i needed, of course i was wrong. I played Battlefield: Bad Company for about 2 hours with the settings pretty high (oh yea, i was stupid... i guess i hadnt done enough research) and i took a break, and was going to put it on the white screen to make sure there was no IR. And low and behold there was. it went away in under a minute, and now there is no trace of it.

Now to my question after what ended up being a short story. Should i worry about that bit of stupidity i did at the start? Ive already lowered the contrast, and am watching HBO for the rest of the night since theres no logos for the most part and it fills perfectly at 16:9. I was also wondering if i should use that break in DVD i found a link to.

I have read some of the thread, and probably should read more, but right now im half awake and am slowly getting tempted to just take this one back and get an LCD im also looking at that would save me $200 even thought its 4inches smaller. Anyways XD Thanks for any help and advice before hand in case i forget later
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post #645 of 5254 Old 07-09-2008, 06:21 AM
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Originally Posted by EvansLight View Post

Oh I wish i had found this place sooner. Already learned a whole lot more i didn't know about burn in and image retention.

I just got (as in not even 12 hours ago) a Samsung PN50A550 which after way too much research and staring at all the tvs in many a different store, i found was the best for the size i was after and for the price i was hoping to pay. I got it home and of course went right to enjoying HD for the first time. I have had the same 27inch CRT for going on 8 years now, and before that it was an even smaller one, this is a really big upgrade for me.

Anyways, getting side tracked. I knew about IR and BI and knew about some of the tools built in the tv to help fight it. I thought that was all i needed, of course i was wrong. I played Battlefield: Bad Company for about 2 hours with the settings pretty high (oh yea, i was stupid... i guess i hadnt done enough research) and i took a break, and was going to put it on the white screen to make sure there was no IR. And low and behold there was. it went away in under a minute, and now there is no trace of it.

Now to my question after what ended up being a short story. Should i worry about that bit of stupidity i did at the start? Ive already lowered the contrast, and am watching HBO for the rest of the night since theres no logos for the most part and it fills perfectly at 16:9. I was also wondering if i should use that break in DVD i found a link to.

I have read some of the thread, and probably should read more, but right now im half awake and am slowly getting tempted to just take this one back and get an LCD im also looking at that would save me $200 even thought its 4inches smaller. Anyways XD Thanks for any help and advice before hand in case i forget later

As long as you are mindful of what you are watching or doing, burn-in won't be an issue. I mean after the break in period, you just can't keep a static image on the screen for more than a few hours. Its pretty simple.

Got Plasma?!?! Crush the LCD propaganda!!

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post #646 of 5254 Old 07-09-2008, 10:08 AM
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Originally Posted by chwisch87 View Post

As long as you are mindful of what you are watching or doing, burn-in won't be an issue. I mean after the break in period, you just can't keep a static image on the screen for more than a few hours. Its pretty simple.

Yea i wouldn't have left one on anyways. I knew not to do that at least. I just didn't know about breaking it in at first, and was just hoping that i didn't do any damage running it full blast the first few hours without knowing about the need to break it in.
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post #647 of 5254 Old 07-09-2008, 09:37 PM
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Guys this may be a stupid question or it may have already been asked but I'm not going through 22 pages to find it. I have a 42PC5D plasma from LG that I really enjoy. I bought it in April and I have had it serviced once already for sparkles.

I started to watch the tv in low power mode because IR was horrid, but after watching it in normal power I notice the picture is alot better even with contrast at 70-75 but IR is still pretty bad.

I'm thinking maybe I'm expecting too much and the IR is normal, while watching a movie there was a scene where a lamp was static for a couple minutes on a black background and when the screen moved I could see the whole outline of the lamp, as long as the background was black but once color hit it was no longer visible. Does that seem excessive?
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post #648 of 5254 Old 07-10-2008, 06:09 AM
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An update for my situation. I have ran white wash for about 1 hour, RGB/B&W solid colors changing (via fade) every 15 seconds from my PC for about 4 hours and watched the HD Discovery Channel for about 6 hours. Unfortunately, the HISTORY.COM is still slightly visible when I strain for it. Really bothers me to be honest... Like I said, this isn't abuse and I think it is bull **** that the Plasma MFG's can sit there and say that burn-in doesn't exist. In fact, it does, they just rename it to IR and say it is the 'long' type of IR. Pfft, whatever.

I am also guessing that many other people do not see IR because, quite frankly, they don't look for it. I have to be honest, I would not see it either if I didn't know it was there. But that isn't the point, really. The fact is, my screen has already experienced burn-in, when it was broke in properly (contrast set to 45 and brightness set to 45). No abuse here, which makes me somewhat angry when I see people post that PDP burn-in is a non issue.

Now, lets say I just have a bad set - then why wouldn't the MFG (LG, in this case) take care of me? If they truly believe that burn-in is an issue of the past and only happens under abuse, I think they would have hard time arguing that watching HDTV, History Channel would be considered 'abuse'. Something's gotta give here and it seems that we have PDP fanboys saying the issue doesn't exist, and then other people saying it is worse than it is. I am just saying from my POV, the issue exists. I can live with it, but I don't particular care for the sensitivity of these displays, not when I take really good care of my electronics and still experience it. I may write a letter to LG and see what their response is.
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post #649 of 5254 Old 07-10-2008, 10:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArchAngelGabriel View Post

I may write a letter to LG and see what their response is.

At least see what they are willing to do.

Got Plasma?!?! Crush the LCD propaganda!!

current system setup
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post #650 of 5254 Old 07-10-2008, 10:26 AM
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It was suggested that when playing games on a plasma to take a five minute break every 30-60 minutes, switch the display over to a channel that fills the whole screen and let it run. This is probably being over protective, but it is not a bad idea. It is also good for your hand and eyes to take at least a 5-10 minute game rest/bathroom break at least once a hour.
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post #651 of 5254 Old 07-10-2008, 10:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArchAngelGabriel View Post

An update for my situation. I have ran white wash for about 1 hour, RGB/B&W solid colors changing (via fade) every 15 seconds from my PC for about 4 hours and watched the HD Discovery Channel for about 6 hours. Unfortunately, the HISTORY.COM is still slightly visible when I strain for it. Really bothers me to be honest... Like I said, this isn't abuse and I think it is bull **** that the Plasma MFG's can sit there and say that burn-in doesn't exist. In fact, it does, they just rename it to IR and say it is the 'long' type of IR. Pfft, whatever.

Actually, I agree with this. If you have a retained image on the screen, whatever the cause or terminology used to describe it, and you find it annoying, then you have every right to complain. Unfortunately, this is considered normal for PDP technology at the moment. The research being done on this problem suggests you are among many who complain.

Quote:
I am also guessing that many other people do not see IR because, quite frankly, they don't look for it. I have to be honest, I would not see it either if I didn't know it was there. But that isn't the point, really. The fact is, my screen has already experienced burn-in, when it was broke in properly (contrast set to 45 and brightness set to 45). No abuse here, which makes me somewhat angry when I see people post that PDP burn-in is a non issue.

What these people you speak of are trying to say is that permanent damage is a non-issue. Temporary afterimages, however annoying, is still an issue. Especially long lasting ones like you have.

Over thinking, over analyzing separates the body from the mind
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post #652 of 5254 Old 07-10-2008, 10:16 PM
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Hello AVS. This is my first post. I don't have the break in DVD, so I figured I would go about breaking in my plasma in a different way. It should accomplish the task and also allow me to do something I like - listen to music. So, I using the music player on my Xbox360 I turn on the full screen visualizer. It displays a full screen image of varying patterns and colors in HD. I've also turned down the contrast and brightness. Then - I let it run while I listen to some tunes or an audiobook or whatever... Is this a good strategy or am I making some horrible mistake? Thanks!
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post #653 of 5254 Old 07-10-2008, 10:36 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Kaju View Post

Hello AVS. This is my first post. I don't have the break in DVD, so I figured I would go about breaking in my plasma in a different way. It should accomplish the task and also allow me to do something I like - listen to music. So, I using the music player on my Xbox360 I turn on the full screen visualizer. It displays a full screen image of varying patterns and colors in HD. I've also turned down the contrast and brightness. Then - I let it run while I listen to some tunes or an audiobook or whatever... Is this a good strategy or am I making some horrible mistake? Thanks!

Doesnt look bad to me
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post #654 of 5254 Old 07-10-2008, 11:50 PM
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Seriously, all you need to break it in is change the channel to an analog station and mess with the reception to make sure there is lots of snow.

It isn't the size of the disk that counts, but how you use it.

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post #655 of 5254 Old 07-11-2008, 04:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaju View Post

Hello AVS. This is my first post. I don't have the break in DVD, so I figured I would go about breaking in my plasma in a different way. It should accomplish the task and also allow me to do something I like - listen to music. So, I using the music player on my Xbox360 I turn on the full screen visualizer. It displays a full screen image of varying patterns and colors in HD. I've also turned down the contrast and brightness. Then - I let it run while I listen to some tunes or an audiobook or whatever... Is this a good strategy or am I making some horrible mistake? Thanks!

Should work fine
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post #656 of 5254 Old 07-11-2008, 08:13 AM
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Ok, so I was trying to get Evangelo's disc burned, but for the life of me, it wouldn't play properly. So I downloaded his slides and they were a bit off in color so I made my own.
Basically the same thing, 21 images of varying shades of gray a pure R G and B (@ various luminance levels). Same as Evangelo's slides but I ensured they were pure signals in Photoshop.

I have been using a USB key with the slides loaded directly playing on slideshow mode on my Pioneer 5020 and it works like a charm. So for those of you having issues with the disc, try this method. Additionally it saves your DVD player from having to run while your TV is breaking in. A win-win if you ask me.
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post #657 of 5254 Old 07-13-2008, 08:50 AM
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Ok here's a question for you guys.

I have an older DVD player that only displays up to 480P, does the Break-In DVD have to be played back at 720P or higher, do I need an up-converting DVD player?

Thanks for the info!
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post #658 of 5254 Old 07-13-2008, 09:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Gixxer1 View Post

Ok here's a question for you guys.

I have an older DVD player that only displays up to 480P, does the Break-In DVD have to be played back at 720P or higher, do I need an up-converting DVD player?

Thanks for the info!

This has been answered many times. Please read a little before cluttering up the forum
The answer is: resolution does not matter.
So long as you fill up the screen with the images (no black or any other solid color bars - anywhere), you're fine with any resolution. Zoom if you need to to get rid of ALL bars. That's what I did.
And be sure to check in on things every now and then, just to ensure that:
(1) the DVD player is not stuck - and is now showing an error message or a single image forever - you can CAUSE burn-in if that were to happen and you didn't notice for hours.
(2) the DVD player IS continuously looping through all the images - this is so that the phosphors will age pretty evenly with all the different colors.
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post #659 of 5254 Old 07-14-2008, 05:32 AM
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Originally Posted by ArchAngelGabriel View Post

It looks like you have the same TV as me. I have a 50PG20... I know you have an LG for sure.

Anyway, I am still working at getting rid of the history channel logo burn-in, IR, whatever the hell you want to call it. Pretty upset, because the History Channel HD only gets about 20% of my viewing, yet that is the only logo that I can see on a completely dark or white background.

There is nothing wrong with the TV, either, the problem is these stations keeping on a solid, non transparent logo that gives uneven phospher wear. Basically, once I get this fixed (if I get it fixed) there will be no more History Channel HD until they change their damn logo. It is frustrating because they are one of the few stations that have sold a bold logo that stays on nearly the entire time.

This has been a eye-opener for me. While there is very little real world problems with what I am experiencing, it does bother me to know that I have the image in the screen. If I were to say, watch a dark movie, or a scene that gets all white (flash bang, or something) you would see it. Again, real world scenario isn't serious. But it is still frustrating.

This also isn't just 'IR' as other forms of IR pretty much are gone in seconds. Hell, even when I play super nintendo, Super Mario World for like 2 hours straight (static images all over) the IR clears up fast... But not the History Channel! Nope, that bitch of a logo wants to remain there and go with you wherever you go! Ok, done with my rant...

Edit ** Just wanted to state that I believe station logos are more harmful to your plasma than playing video games. Why? Well, most video games you play and you beat. Ok, so 40 hours broken up over several sessions and then you are done with that game. Since every game has a different place for these static images, you can be relatively sure it won't cause any long term problems. But a station logo! Yes, a station logo will get many more hours depending on your viewing habits. Like to watch iceroad truckers? Or Axemen? Or Universe? Or all the great programs that the history channel has to offer? Well, you will rack up, far far far more than 40 hours and that bold bitch of a logo is going to keep burning away the life of those phosphers. Yep, I strongly believe that bold non-transparent station logos are more harmful that video games on a Plasma TV.


I figure I would update everyone... I now have about 30-40 more hours on the set since finding my history channel burn-in. Unfortunately, it is still there. I have not turned to the channel since... When I use the white-wash function I can see the history.com and even the logo sightly.

Not the end of the world, as It would be difficult to see under normal viewing circumstances... Just a bit upset though, because the set has been taken care of, I have been careful with it. I limited the time it was on the channel in the first place, but I guess that isn't enough.

My only hope at this point is the run the 'inverted' option and watch the channel for a long time. But that might make it worse. Does anyone have experience with that? I assume invert was created for that reason, but whether or not it will fix the uneven phosper wear (burn-in) is just a guess on my part. I'd hate to make it worse.

So here you go... My new LG 50PG20 has burn-in. On a side note, I looked at my friends plasma (Panny 42" 07' and and Sammy 50" 06') and both of them have signs of burn-in. My Dad's Dell W4200 05' (sammy for the most part) was used as a computer monitor for about 2 years and has only a very slight burn-in where the task bar was. All in all, the Dell faired the best in regards to burn-in, IMO.

I think people just don't know how to look for burn-in, or have never watched anything static on their screen. Or, I just happen to have seen it on the 4 Plasmas that I mentioned... A little bit bummed, honestly.
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post #660 of 5254 Old 07-14-2008, 05:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Gixxer1 View Post

Ok here's a question for you guys.

I have an older DVD player that only displays up to 480P, does the Break-In DVD have to be played back at 720P or higher, do I need an up-converting DVD player?

Thanks for the info!

Your TV will always upconvert/downcovert everything received to display at its native resolution. So if you send it 480p and your TV is 1080p it will upconvert it and display it at 1080p.

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