Master Burn-In/IR/Break In Thread Part II: All Posts Here Only - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 5436 Old 12-03-2007, 07:16 AM - Thread Starter
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This thread is for all discussion related to burn in, IR, and break in questions/concerns/info on flat panel TVs. Please post all discussions on this topic in this thread.

With today's new technologies (2007 and beyond) burn in is nearly non-existence if users use common sense. While still possible, it is highly unlikely if common care is used. A lot of newer TV's (i.e. Pioneer's 8th gen sets) have new technologies that help to also prevent IR. Combined with break in and common care/use, IR can be dramatically reduced if not even eliminated completely.

This thread is for the Plasma and LCD Flat Panel Displays Forum: there is a SEPARATE thread for RPTV


Download Break In DVD (SVCD)
 

New information added on 12/6/12:

 

This was from 2007.

 

"THE REALIZATION of high-quality plasma display panels (PDPs) requires an urgent solution to the image sticking or image retention problems induced in PDP cells after strong sus-tain discharges have been repeatedly produced during a sustain period [1]–[9]. Image retention means temporal image sticking that is easily recoverable through minor treatment, whereas image sticking is permanent and not recoverable even with severe treatment."

As you see, they talk about Image Retention (as we know it) and that is "temporal image sticking" whereas "image sticking" (without a qualifier) is what we here term Burn-in. Now if you read the fix was 100 hours of full white but at a level much higher than we can generate with our TVs. However, what they threw at the tv to get the alleged permanent image sticking (and in the abstract they generated what they believed was permanent image sticking) was 500 hours continuously at an insanely high level (far higher levels than any current plasma can reach even with the smallest of windows). So while a full white screen can get nowhere near the levels what they used for the "fix" by the same token what they used to generate the alleged permanent image sticking is also at a far higher level attainable with our TVs (and this was essentially 3 weeks continuous of the same image (abuse which we could not remotely duplicate in terms of brightness level).
 

http://pde.knu.ac.kr/publication/recovery%20of%20boundary%20image%20sticking%20using%20aging%20discharge%20in%20AC%20plasma%20display%20panel.pdf
 


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post #2 of 5436 Old 12-03-2007, 07:42 AM
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This is Part II of this subject: the original thread, started in 2004, is here: http://avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=608677

Many things have changed with regard to this topic: please post your questions and comments here

Thanks to WilliamR for volunteering to maintain this new sticky

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post #3 of 5436 Old 12-04-2007, 06:43 PM
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Does anybody know if the traditional break-in procedure is still neccessary for the Samsung 4254? I see that Sammy says that it's not.

I just purchased this set yesterday and haven't yet seen even the slightest trace of IR. I played Uncharted on PS3 with the ammo guage in the top left corner and watched a couple flicks with the black letterbox bars (albeit with the display settings dialed way down). Haven't seen anything to warrant a fright. I've been mighty careful, though, employing the screen wipe feature rather frequently.
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post #4 of 5436 Old 12-05-2007, 08:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bonzo341 View Post

Does anybody know if the traditional break-in procedure is still neccessary for the Samsung 4254? I see that Sammy says that it's not.

I just purchased this set yesterday and haven't yet seen even the slightest trace of IR. I played Uncharted on PS3 with the ammo guage in the top left corner and watched a couple flicks with the black letterbox bars (albeit with the display settings dialed way down). Haven't seen anything to warrant a fright. I've been mighty careful, though, employing the screen wipe feature rather frequently.

Its not that any particular TV needs the break in DVD, but if you are using a Plasma TV its a good idea to break it in first. The plasma's cells need some time to "break in" and it helps them to prevent IR because they have been used for awhile and not as prone to IR.

How are you checking for IR? You need to turn the TV to an input that has no signal coming to it, stand close to the TV and have no lights on, that is the best way to see any IR. Its not normal viewing but it will help.

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post #5 of 5436 Old 12-05-2007, 06:43 PM
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Thanks for the response, William. I was actually doing exactly the opposite: setting the screen to white and scoping it out up close. Shows what I know . . .

EDIT: Following your method, I still see no trace of IR. But I'll be cautious for the first couple hundred hours, nonetheless.

Off-topic: This machine is eff'n beautiful!
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post #6 of 5436 Old 12-10-2007, 07:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bonzo341 View Post

Thanks for the response, William. I was actually doing exactly the opposite: setting the screen to white and scoping it out up close. Shows what I know . . .

EDIT: Following your method, I still see no trace of IR. But I'll be cautious for the first couple hundred hours, nonetheless.

Off-topic: This machine is eff'n beautiful!

Excellent!

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post #7 of 5436 Old 12-12-2007, 08:45 PM
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Thanks for restarting the thread. I searched the old one but I didn't find any settings for my situation. I have a 24 hour old Pio 110 FD . I want to break this thing in gently, because I will be watching alot of ESPN, football, gaming etc (I have stayed away from ESPN so far and no games).

Does anyone have any advice? Thanks.
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post #8 of 5436 Old 12-12-2007, 11:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flagyl View Post

Thanks for restarting the thread. I searched the old one but I didn't find any settings for my situation. I have a 24 hour old Pio 110 FD . I want to break this thing in gently, because I will be watching alot of ESPN, football, gaming etc (I have stayed away from ESPN so far and no games).

Does anyone have any advice? Thanks.

Check out the Pioneer Kuro Settings/Issues thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=858851

Lots of guidance (and suggested settings ...) for break-in.
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post #9 of 5436 Old 12-21-2007, 12:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by do not freeze View Post

i've had a panny th50px75 for about 100 hours and didn't run the break-in dvd. Now, if I run it a few times for a few hours every now and then, will it help to even the phosphor aging from 4:3 and non-zoomed watching on the TV. Or is it going to make matter worse? Screen uniformity looks perfect to me, but I don't wanna take any risk since my family has a hard time pressing on the button to switch aspect ratios on the TV.

Bottom line, is it good to run the break-in dvd after the first 100 hours up to the next 200 hours?

I would Like to know this too. Is it useful to run the breakin DVD overnight every once in awhile, say once or twice a month to make sure everything is wearing evenly?
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post #10 of 5436 Old 12-21-2007, 02:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikecoscia View Post

I would Like to know this too. Is it useful to run the breakin DVD overnight every once in awhile, say once or twice a month to make sure everything is wearing evenly?

The break in DVD will help remove IR as well since it displays a full screen image. Once your set is broken in I, personally, do not believe that running it will break it in even more. The phospors have calmed down after a certain point and its ready to go.

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post #11 of 5436 Old 12-23-2007, 08:18 AM
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Okay have another question, is it okay to keep the TV running nonstop for the roughly 4 days it takes for the 100 hours of breaking in? I want to get it over with fast so I can start really watching movies and playing video games most of all. I just don't want to cook my set by leaving it on that long. I have it and my PS3 with the breakin DVD running almost 24 hours now as it is.
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post #12 of 5436 Old 12-25-2007, 01:22 PM
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Okay, I'm confused. I've heard many say that burn in is not an issue with plasma's as it was before. So if this is true, is the break-in period still a concern? Do the manufacturers recommend breaking in the panel? If not, why are we doing it? I would actually think that the manufacturers would already break the plasmas in before shipping them out, no?

I'm wondering if this is similar to ones who say to break in a new car gently or drive it hard, like you stole it. I personally was one that drove my car like I stole it! I NEVER had any issues with it either and the engine was VERY strong! So is breaking in a plasma just a bunch of hype?
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post #13 of 5436 Old 12-27-2007, 12:10 PM
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next week I will be getting the samsung 5884. is the break in still important for the newer modes?
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post #14 of 5436 Old 12-27-2007, 12:10 PM
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I've had my TH-42PH9UK for over a year now with more than 1500 hours, mostly DVDs full screen no sidebars. I run break-in DVD for first 100 hours as well. Few days ago I connected Xbox 360 and played a game with static image (Assassin Creed) for about 4 houses. I am not sure if I have IR or Burn-in, how long would IR stay? I can see image only on the white background - watching regular TV content or DVDs I can't see anything. Xbox is connected via VGA, if that matters. Also, I have all my settings in negative range - sensitive eyes
Do I have burn-in only after 4 hours? Should I run my break-in DVD?
Any comments?
Thanks.
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post #15 of 5436 Old 12-27-2007, 12:18 PM
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new to plasama. what does IR mean?
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post #16 of 5436 Old 12-27-2007, 02:06 PM
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Image Retention
"Image retention occurs when the ghost of an image appears on the screen. Displaying an image in the exact same position for long periods can cause image retention. Static images can cause image retention."
And as far as I understand IR is not permanent - goes away, burn-in doesn't.
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post #17 of 5436 Old 12-31-2007, 06:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tlak View Post

I've had my TH-42PH9UK for over a year now with more than 1500 hours, mostly DVDs full screen no sidebars. I run break-in DVD for first 100 hours as well. Few days ago I connected Xbox 360 and played a game with static image (Assassin Creed) for about 4 houses. I am not sure if I have IR or Burn-in, how long would IR stay? I can see image only on the white background - watching regular TV content or DVDs I can't see anything. Xbox is connected via VGA, if that matters. Also, I have all my settings in negative range - sensitive eyes
Do I have burn-in only after 4 hours? Should I run my break-in DVD?
Any comments?
Thanks.

Couldn't be burn in after just a few hours. It is IR. Run the break in DVD or full screen, HD content from something like Discovery HD or a movie and it should eventually go away.

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post #18 of 5436 Old 12-31-2007, 06:41 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nickerz View Post

Okay, I'm confused. I've heard many say that burn in is not an issue with plasma's as it was before. So if this is true, is the break-in period still a concern? Do the manufacturers recommend breaking in the panel? If not, why are we doing it? I would actually think that the manufacturers would already break the plasmas in before shipping them out, no?

I'm wondering if this is similar to ones who say to break in a new car gently or drive it hard, like you stole it. I personally was one that drove my car like I stole it! I NEVER had any issues with it either and the engine was VERY strong! So is breaking in a plasma just a bunch of hype?

Break in is still important as it gives the panel time to settle in. Plasma's seem to be more prone to IR in the first few hundreds hours of use until it gets some use. People also seem to report that their picture quality improves after being used for awhile. I can testify to that. I had shimmering pixels at first and thought my set was going to need to be returned. After about 150 hours the shimmering vanished completely. I was told it was because the set needed time to settle in.

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post #19 of 5436 Old 01-04-2008, 03:13 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tlak View Post

I've had my TH-42PH9UK for over a year now with more than 1500 hours, mostly DVDs full screen no sidebars. I run break-in DVD for first 100 hours as well. Few days ago I connected Xbox 360 and played a game with static image (Assassin Creed) for about 4 houses. I am not sure if I have IR or Burn-in, how long would IR stay? I can see image only on the white background - watching regular TV content or DVDs I can't see anything. Xbox is connected via VGA, if that matters. Also, I have all my settings in negative range - sensitive eyes
Do I have burn-in only after 4 hours? Should I run my break-in DVD?
Any comments?
Thanks.

No, but you do have a "nasty" case of temporary IR; which will require many hours of watching only full screen content to eliminate. If you follow my recommendations and check your panel periodically, eventually you will see the IR is gone.
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post #20 of 5436 Old 01-04-2008, 06:02 PM
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Been running the break-in DVD (thanks Evangelo2!) for 36 hours on my new Panny 50PX75U with a standard DVD player, full screen, and it seems to be going well.

Question is, do I really need to do this for 2 more days? Wouldn't a movie (w/no bars) accomplish the same thing? I won't be watching any broadcast programming or playing video games on this set so I'd imagine with a movie the scenes change quickly and often enough to avoid any burn-in.

Just curious...I want to watch something on this puppy!
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post #21 of 5436 Old 01-05-2008, 05:38 AM
 
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Originally Posted by paulsoaresjr View Post

Been running the break-in DVD (thanks Evangelo2!) for 36 hours on my new Panny 50PX75U with a standard DVD player, full screen, and it seems to be going well.

Question is, do I really need to do this for 2 more days? Wouldn't a movie (w/no bars) accomplish the same thing?

Yes. IMO... the break in DVD is one of those great urban myths that for some insane reason most everyone in the AV (not so) S Forum have bought in to.

Plasma Facts and Myths Panasonic Presents Advice From the Video Purist Perspective
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post #22 of 5436 Old 01-06-2008, 07:57 PM
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After viewing four hours of 2.35:1 material last night, I noticed that I had some IR from the black bars on my 110 hour panny th-42pz77u. It took another one to one-and-a-half hours of viewing 16x9 material before I could no longer see the black bars. The black bar IR wasn't noticeable in the viewing material but definitely noticeable on a no-signal screen. I have done a complete break-in of the set and waited until after the 100-hour mark to view 2.35 material. I have a unique question regarding IR that I have not seen addressed previously:

If there is any IR after viewing, should it be wiped-away immediately by viewing other material or can the set be turned off and the IR wiped away at a later time. In effect, are there any adverse consequences to turning off the tv with visible IR?

After seeing this, and seeing how easily IR appears (IR was even left from my computer's boot-up screen while it was detecting IDE drives, man of 10 seconds; albeit the tv had very few hours on it at the time and now I've noticed that there is no IR during the same procedure), I think I would have bought LCD instead but that is not an option now.
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post #23 of 5436 Old 01-07-2008, 10:47 AM
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If there is any IR after viewing, should it be wiped-away immediately by viewing other material or can the set be turned off and the IR wiped away at a later time. In effect, are there any adverse consequences to turning off the tv with visible IR?

I was curious about this as well. My Hitachi P42H401 has about 500 hrs on it and I still get the occasional IR.

As well, I would like to know when exactly does IR turn into permanent burn-in. I've owned two RPTV CRTS in the past (one SD and one HD), and have watched plenty of 2.35:1 content on them with no hint of burn-in. I know that you have to be careful with plasmas, but I don't want to be worried that by watching say Lord of the Rings, I'm potentially creating long term damage. I have my contrast setting below 50%, and have all picture enhancing options turned off, but hearing some horror stories of plasma owners having burn-in of station logos and such from minimal viewing time is worrisome.
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post #24 of 5436 Old 01-07-2008, 12:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by optivity View Post

Yes. IMO... the break in DVD is one of those great urban myths that for some insane reason most everyone in the AV (not so) S Forum have bought in to.

Plasma Facts and Myths Panasonic Presents Advice From the Video Purist Perspective

In your opinion...
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post #25 of 5436 Old 01-10-2008, 07:46 AM
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I have burned all 3 of the burn in dvd files, .nrg etc. I am just getting "root" on my samsung hd950. How do I play the dvd burn in sequence. When i select root it does nothing...
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post #26 of 5436 Old 01-10-2008, 11:41 PM
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Any answer to the question I asked about in my previous post? Anyone?
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post #27 of 5436 Old 01-11-2008, 12:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlasich View Post

After viewing four hours of 2.35:1 material last night, I noticed that I had some IR from the black bars on my 110 hour panny th-42pz77u. It took another one to one-and-a-half hours of viewing 16x9 material before I could no longer see the black bars. The black bar IR wasn't noticeable in the viewing material but definitely noticeable on a no-signal screen. I have done a complete break-in of the set and waited until after the 100-hour mark to view 2.35 material. I have a unique question regarding IR that I have not seen addressed previously:

If there is any IR after viewing, should it be wiped-away immediately by viewing other material or can the set be turned off and the IR wiped away at a later time. In effect, are there any adverse consequences to turning off the tv with visible IR?

After seeing this, and seeing how easily IR appears (IR was even left from my computer's boot-up screen while it was detecting IDE drives, man of 10 seconds; albeit the tv had very few hours on it at the time and now I've noticed that there is no IR during the same procedure), I think I would have bought LCD instead but that is not an option now.

Don't worry about it. You're not going to hurt it by turning it off when you're done. If you do buy into the break-in concept, I think 100 hours isn't that much time.
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post #28 of 5436 Old 01-12-2008, 10:46 AM
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Tace13: "Of course, I woke up this morning to find the screen lit up bright green and the dvd player frozen. It had been frozen there for 6 hours. Pretty happy about that."

If it was stuck on pure green for a long time that means your green phosphors got a nice workout and are now a bit weaker than your blue and red ones. So everything might look a bit more magenta (blue + red = magenta) than usual for a while until it evens out.

-The Jerm
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post #29 of 5436 Old 01-14-2008, 06:24 PM
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I just got my TH-42PZ700U set up but i cant burn a dvd right now due to the lack of empty disks. And i will not have my HD cable box until tomorrow. Is it ok if i watch tv with no static image in zoom mode so that there are no black bars? Would this be effective as a break in technique until i can get set it to Discovery HD for a few days?
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post #30 of 5436 Old 01-14-2008, 07:47 PM
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I understand from reading the threads here that I don't need to be overly concerned about IR as long as I take care and have broken the set in properly.

I've successfully completed the first 100 hours. What was surprising, though, was Panasonic recommending that for the next 900 hours, I limit letterbox movies to 15% of my viewing time. That figures to approximately one 2-hour movie per 13 hours of set use.

All I'm interested in watching is movies (which is why I insisted on best PQ), and most of those movies are letterboxed. (I'd like to watch the movies as intended, so stretching or zooming is not a good solution.)

Until I reach 1000 hours, I'm willing to run the break-in DVD all day after watching a movie to "make up" for watching it. However, will I need to continue this *forever*?

Did I make a bad call? I still have time to exchange for an LCD, but I LOVE the picture on my beautiful TH-50PX75U!

I'm hoping there's someone out there who watches primarily letterboxed movies and can tell me if this is really a concern. Thanks for bearing with me.
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