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post #1 of 43 Old 12-16-2007, 06:03 PM - Thread Starter
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So I bought a pioneer 5010 and am awaiting delivery. After closing the deal, i was online searching some more for 5010 and found that Consumer Reports just published a rating. I checked several times before closing teh deal and they didn't have anything. They rated it someone low in my mind. Every other report showed the pioneer 5010 well ahead of the pack. CNET, magazines, etc. I did my homework and felt comfortalbe in my purchase. This forum even held it in the highest regard. Waht would you think of the Consumer Report rating. They have not published a review yet...I'm waiting to see why they gave it what they did. Any thougths? Should I cancel the order and go with teh panny they rank the hightest and save $!000?
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post #2 of 43 Old 12-16-2007, 06:09 PM
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DO NOT listen to CS on this matter. Most beleive they rated it so low because price was a factor, which of course it shoud not be in a performance review. The 5010 is almost indesputably the finest 50in consumer plasma on the market today. Enjoy your purchase. I am envious of you.
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post #3 of 43 Old 12-16-2007, 06:14 PM
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In addition, I've spent hours comparing the 5010 and panasonic's pz700u (CR's best rated set) and while the panny is a very impressive tv, It's no 5010fd. The pioneer is superior in just about every aspect (even if only a little in certain areas) except price. You have obviously already decided to spend the extra money, and for me, that was the correct decision. Do what you want but I would definately NOT cancel the order based on the Consumer Reports review.
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post #4 of 43 Old 12-16-2007, 06:16 PM - Thread Starter
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i appreciate your feedback and support. i've debate for quite some time about what to buy and was down to the panny 500u and the 5010. I spent countless hours online reearching and basically everything I found said the same thing you did...that the 5010 is the bomb, but then just today the CR thing came up...wow. Sort of a kick in the gut. I just can't wait to see why they ranked it so low. The only negative I've ever heard about the 5010 was the green levels from CNET.
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post #5 of 43 Old 12-16-2007, 06:22 PM
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To my knowlege, the only sub $4000 plasma that has entirley acurate color accross the board is the NEC. Ive, read the same thing about the pioneer, and for that matter the panasonic and the samsung, but I'm pretty sure that as long as the tv is not set up in front of an actuall field of grass or a forest, then the baseball field or forest or whatever green thing being displayed will look just fine.
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post #6 of 43 Old 12-16-2007, 07:56 PM
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For what it's worth CR rated my dish washer quite high and it's been nothing but a piece of crap.
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post #7 of 43 Old 12-16-2007, 08:01 PM
 
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Originally Posted by brentsg View Post

For what it's worth CR rated my dish washer quite high and it's been nothing but a piece of crap.

My rule is that you should never base your opinion on CR
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post #8 of 43 Old 12-17-2007, 06:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks again for the feedback. Makes me feel better...and Roman, I think you are sending me my TV. I have my fingers crossed that it gets here this week and i can watch the holiday festivities on it. Thanks again for all the feedback. I hope the 5010 lives up to it. Merry Christmas everyone
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post #9 of 43 Old 12-17-2007, 02:58 PM
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CR, have no idea what they talk about and every time I read their review, I wonder who they hire for reviewers. They are completely off the mark on everything that they review, from a IRON to the cars! I don't trust them at all! They are much like the ZAGAT GUIDE, which is also so off the mark at rating restaurants! The 5010 is a fantastic Plasma, one of the better ones, and a great value for money, even if it is on the higher end of plasmas.
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post #10 of 43 Old 12-17-2007, 03:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RomanInvision View Post

My rule is that you should never base your opinion on CR

unless it is with cars... sometimes

What is dead can never die. Long live my 151!
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post #11 of 43 Old 12-17-2007, 03:28 PM
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CR, Is Okay for the average consumer, because most of the stuff they do is average at best. When you get to our level of electronics they can't do evaluations because thay have no expertise at this level. I also bought a recommended Washing Machine what a piece of crap. Sears Suckers.

Nothing's Perfect So Stop Expecting It ! Glenee

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post #12 of 43 Old 12-17-2007, 03:37 PM
 
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CR, does a fairly good job or rating cars and canned soup. Trust your own eyes, AVS Forum members and specialized a/v publications when it comes advanced technology bleeding edge products. Trust specialized experts on this subject.

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post #13 of 43 Old 12-17-2007, 05:28 PM
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Consumer reports Blows!! Not much of an authority on anything-maybe garbage disposals! Wonder how they are still in business
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post #14 of 43 Old 12-17-2007, 06:36 PM
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I just received my subscription copy of Sound and Vision Magazine for January 2008. They put together five recommended systems for every budget. Their top of the line system ($9,819) includes the Pioneer Kuro 5010, KEF Series Q speakers, Toshiba HD-A35 HD DVD, High Def Tivo, Onkyo TX-SR875 AV Receiver and a Furman Elite-15DM i power conditioner.

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post #15 of 43 Old 12-17-2007, 06:53 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seabreeze82 View Post

CR, have no idea what they talk about and every time I read their review, I wonder who they hire for reviewers. They are completely off the mark on everything that they review, from a IRON to the cars! I don't trust them at all! They are much like the ZAGAT GUIDE, which is also so off the mark at rating restaurants! The 5010 is a fantastic Plasma, one of the better ones, and a great value for money, even if it is on the higher end of plasmas.

I'm not sure why you (OP) panic'd so much anyway...their review was only 6 points off the top rated Panny TH-50PZ700U ...they found the picture to be "Excellent", DVD image "Very Good" and SD programming "Very Good"..the only thing they thought was "Good" was the remote control and On Screen Menu....nothing much to worry about there now was there???

As for the lame CR comments:

They are one of the best, most unbiased source of reviews and info out there IMO...I trust many many of their in depth reviews....have you read about how they test things? As opposed to some dweed on a blog who does a "review" or a mag/website that gets paid by company who's product they review...I trust a group like CR WAY more than some of the junk "reviews" I've seen online etc.

CR accepts no advertsing, buys their products from regular stores and tests them with very precise equipment, much moreso than other sites/magazines.

Sure they aren't spot on every single time/review, nobody ever is, but being unbiased, they do a pretty good job doing real world reviews IMO.

As for you TV, I wouldn't worry too much, I'm sure you'll enjoy it.

On a side note,
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post #16 of 43 Old 12-18-2007, 04:23 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by klh92 View Post

Consumer Reports & 5010

Consumer Reports also reviews washing machines, tires & hair dryers; CR is the "jack of all product reviews, master of none."
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post #17 of 43 Old 12-18-2007, 05:53 AM - Thread Starter
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I did see the ratings. The only "real" area that ranked lower than the panny was the DVD quality. I hope they don't put pq on the same level ranking as they do remote ease of use. I panic'd because I just paid $1000 more for the pioneer that got ranked lower by CR. Was the only time I saw anything like that in my research and only found it after I closed the deal. The group has renewed my excitement and while I won't get rid of the butterflys until I actually get the unit here, I'm better. I'll post back after I get the unit setup (should be end of this week).

btw, I think buying a new TV is harder than buying a new car....thanks again for all the feedback and advice.
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post #18 of 43 Old 12-18-2007, 06:28 AM
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It's as if consumer reports doesnt take black level performance into consideration anymore .. Whats weird is they actually used to.. there used to be a separate "black level" column in there results but for some reason they stopped using it.

Anyhow I cant imagine anyone being disappointed with a 5010, I have the lowest Kuro model (4280HD) and even it makes my previous Panny PZ77U look bad in every category.
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post #19 of 43 Old 12-18-2007, 05:04 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamese777 View Post

I just received my subscription copy of Sound and Vision Magazine for January 2008. They put together five recommended systems for every budget. Their top of the line system ($9,819) includes the Pioneer Kuro 5010, KEF Series Q speakers, Toshiba HD-A35 HD DVD, High Def Tivo, Onkyo TX-SR875 AV Receiver and a Furman Elite-15DM i power conditioner.

I agree with this list 100%.

-Robert
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post #20 of 43 Old 12-18-2007, 05:09 PM
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I agree with the poster who said Zagat is often off (oh boy).
And with the person who said it's harder buying this HD plasma than a car - absolutely!

I just bought the 60 inch version of the 5010 and it's great. Enjoy your new 5010.
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post #21 of 43 Old 12-18-2007, 05:19 PM
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Dude, customer reports places Vizio far above Samsung, VIZIO. Don't trust that site. The 5010 is an outstanding set; I doubt you'll find anything better unless it's the larger model, or a Fujitsu.
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post #22 of 43 Old 12-18-2007, 05:46 PM
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I have the 5010 and the PZ750U sitting right in front of me, and I can tell you that CR's ratings are exactly correct.

Just kidding. I'm buying the Panny. If I had the money, I'd buy the Kuro. Isn't that what it comes down to?
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post #23 of 43 Old 12-18-2007, 06:26 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by REDEYEDSHOOTER View Post

Dude, customer reports places Vizio far above Samsung, VIZIO. Don't trust that site. The 5010 is an outstanding set; I doubt you'll find anything better unless it's the larger model, or a Fujitsu.




What version of CR are YOU reading....??

Vizio is ranked 5-6 steps BELOW the 5010 and 2-3 steps below the Samsungs on the 58"+ list of TV's...

PLEASE get your facts straight (easy to check)before you spout off nonsense..thanks.
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post #24 of 43 Old 12-18-2007, 06:29 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnylighton View Post

I have the 5010 and the PZ750U sitting right in front of me, and I can tell you that CR's ratings are exactly correct.

Just kidding. I'm buying the Panny. If I had the money, I'd buy the Kuro. Isn't that what it comes down to?

Too bad you were "kidding"...they rated the Panny PZ750 two steps higher than the Samsung...not by much though..2 points seperated them...both did "Excellent" on many things.
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post #25 of 43 Old 12-27-2007, 10:03 AM - Thread Starter
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I now have my 5010...love it. And, if you are looking, Invision Displays was simply phenomenal to buy from.....they were there step by step and showcase what customer service truly shoudl be. I've never experienced anything like it.

Now onto the 5010. This is my first "real" set so I don't have much to compare to.....but what I've seen so far, I love. I haven't hooked up to Blue ray yet, but DVDs look great. My HD is installing in a few days so I'll post back again. We've played the Wii on it and Tiger woods golf is phenomenal (as good as the Wii graphics can get.

Only had one hitch on the mount. Peerless doesn't send the right bolts with it for the Pio.....supposed to get them today.

If I can help anyone with real world 5010 info, just let me know.
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post #26 of 43 Old 12-27-2007, 10:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathesar View Post

It's as if consumer reports doesnt take black level performance into consideration anymore .. Whats weird is they actually used to.. there used to be a separate "black level" column in there results but for some reason they stopped using it.

They had this to say about the 5080:
"...its black levels set a standard for plasmas. "

It's not like either the 5010 or 5080 got a low rating, they were both solidly in the "Very Good" category not far behind the leaders. All you need to do is to see the Kuro next to the top rated Panasonic or other plasmas in a showroom to see the difference in picture quality. Adjust the settings all you like, the Kuro has significantly better blacks with ambient room lighting and that makes everything look better, at least to me. Other people have different preferences, of course.

In a very dark viewing room, you may not see much difference with black levels and the Panasonic may well have done better overall on their measurements. If you only watch in a dark room, perhaps the higher rated models are indeed a bit better overall as the measurements suggest. If you watch with ambient room lighting as well, just go compare in a showroom and you may wonder what CR was thinking.
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post #27 of 43 Old 12-27-2007, 11:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordon Shumway View Post

CR accepts no advertsing, buys their products from regular stores and tests them with very precise equipment, much moreso than other sites/magazines.

Sure they aren't spot on every single time/review, nobody ever is, but being unbiased, they do a pretty good job doing real world reviews IMO.

As for you TV, I wouldn't worry too much, I'm sure you'll enjoy it.

On a side note,

Consumer Reports may not accept advertising, but that doesn't mean they have no editorial biases. I'm not saying there is a bias present in this case, but everyone has preferences, even the people at CR.
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post #28 of 43 Old 12-27-2007, 11:35 AM
 
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CR also does a VALUE rating. Their editors do not believe the extra money for the Pio is worth the extra performance.
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post #29 of 43 Old 12-27-2007, 02:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Darren_C View Post


In a very dark viewing room, you may not see much difference with black levels and the Panasonic may well have done better overall on their measurements. If you only watch in a dark room, perhaps the higher rated models are indeed a bit better overall as the measurements suggest. If you watch with ambient room lighting as well, just go compare in a showroom and you may wonder what CR was thinking.

That's an interesting comment -- I was shopping around for my plasma over the summer and was debating between the Pio 5080, Samsung 5054, & Panasonic 50PX75U. After a few trips to local big box stores, I found that the 5080 looked absolutely mind-blowing and the 5054 looked very good -- and the Panasonic looked a little washed out.

I was leaning more towards the Samsung because it was $1k cheaper at that time, and then I went to a few upper-end retailers that only carried the more expensive models but had them in calibrated dark rooms. Their only two 50" plasmas on display were the 50" Kuro 1080p Elite and the Panasonic 50PZ750U. I was surprised at how much closer they were to one another when in a dark room and calibrated. The Elite certainly looked a little better, but nothing like the shocking difference present at big box stores in brighter conditions.

I assumed that the 75U and 5080 would just be slightly downgraded & 768p versions of their much more expensive siblings, and ended up buying the 75U for pricing reasons. Certainly the 5080 has other advantages (in addition to contrast and color saturation) in video processing, scaling, features, SD viewing PQ, and probably more, but I decided to save money and take the 75U plus an ISF calibration.
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post #30 of 43 Old 12-27-2007, 03:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zinthar View Post

That's an interesting comment -- I was shopping around for my plasma over the summer and was debating between the Pio 5080, Samsung 5054, & Panasonic 50PX75U. After a few trips to local big box stores, I found that the 5080 looked absolutely mind-blowing and the 5054 looked very good -- and the Panasonic looked a little washed out.

I was leaning more towards the Samsung because it was $1k cheaper at that time, and then I went to a few upper-end retailers that only carried the more expensive models but had them in calibrated dark rooms. Their only two 50" plasmas on display were the 50" Kuro 1080p Elite and the Panasonic 50PZ750U. I was surprised at how much closer they were to one another when in a dark room and calibrated. The Elite certainly looked a little better, but nothing like the shocking difference present at big box stores in brighter conditions.

I was >this< close to buying a Panasonic 50PE700U at Costco when they dropped their instant rebate. That's when I did some more shopping and research. I was really shocked that the Panasonic wasn't better, given all the great reviews it had. I was wondering why some LCD models not even touted for great black levels blew away the Panasonic, side by side on the same material, no matter how I adjusted the settings.

The short reason for the better black levels I noticed on the Kuro and some LCD models like the Samsung 5271 I considered is that the screen material itself is visibly darker. When there is ambient light, that makes the blacks signifcantly better and gives a much better overall picture quality for my preference. The Panasonic and most other plasmas were much lighter grey in a moderately lit showroom and looked washed out in comparison. This wasn't even a judgement call- it was obvious.

Now take the same sets in a very dark room. You're no longer seeing the light reflected off the screen material as the basis for black level, but rather the light emitted by the display itself. In this situation, LCDs tend to have much worse black levels because of the brighter backlight. The advantage of the Kuro is probably a lot less over other plasmas, if there is any at all. The typical measurement with a sensor suctioned to the front of a display also tends to eliminate the effect of reflected ambient lighting, so the numbers are usually only meaningful in a dark viewing room.

Just my take, anyway, and it seems to explain the differences I noticed. Of course, a darker screen material might mean less overall brightness or worse shadow detail if all else is equal. In the case of the Kuro, I haven't found this to be an issue so far, though.
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