Panasonic Released 2008 info on 80 and 85 series [NO PRICE TALK PLEASE] - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 269 Old 02-14-2008, 09:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Just went to panny's website and they have pricing for the PZ80's and PZ85's


http://www2.panasonic.com/consumer-e...00000000005702

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post #2 of 269 Old 02-14-2008, 09:32 PM
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That 50PZ85 may very well be my future TV. Very curious to see how much the PZ800 will go for above the 85. Seems like it will come down to a premium for an all-in-one glass design. Certainly a good price but not the huge "shock/surprise" that other forum members said it would be.
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post #3 of 269 Old 02-14-2008, 09:47 PM
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Shock and surprise? Please. What are Panasonic's managers smoking? They think they're going to compete with LCDs when the 50PZ80U, third tier from the top of their consumer line, is $2500? There better be room for some serious discounting or their market share is going bye bye. Especially if brightness is not significantly improved from last year (and it appears from their website that it isn't).
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post #4 of 269 Old 02-14-2008, 09:54 PM
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I was kind of surprised to see that the pricing of the two 1080p 50" models was not more aggressive given that they have 2 higher tier 50" models still to price. However, Panasonic is good for a few MSRP cuts throughout the year. Plus, they may not want to price them too far below the current models yet until they can flush out the existing stock. Wonder if the pioneer PDP-5020FD (9th gen 50" 1080p kuro) will actually come in at the rumored "targeted" MSRP of $3500... will be interesting...
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post #5 of 269 Old 02-15-2008, 04:11 AM
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Those prices don't really mean much to me...I suppose they are probably a guideline for sellers to start with, but "market" prices don't take long to fall below that....especially considering the overall state of the economy right now.

They still have the 50PZ700U listed at 3K on the website...

I did think the pricing might be a little bit better out of the gate...but I guess they figured they'll start higher and work downward. Plus, once the 800/850 series hits stores, it'll probably push down the prices of the 80/85 series.

By next Thanksgiving, the 50PZ85U will probably be selling for $1,999.
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post #6 of 269 Old 02-15-2008, 05:44 AM
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Whoa! Power consumption on the 46" TH-46PZ85U = 628W. No mention of the 50". That's a heater. I was expecting Panasonic to bring down power consumption on plasma range.
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post #7 of 269 Old 02-15-2008, 06:27 AM
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These prices don't represent much of a shocking revelation. Panasonic, in a rather axiomatic way, has declared:
Last year's Tier 2 with a 10 to 20% discount=This year's Tier 3.

I'll have to wait till they are out to evaluate that claim.

I was hoping for:
(Last year's Tier 2)*80%=This year's Tier 2


I'll be holding off till later in the year.
Still its nice they released them so early. Pioneer.
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post #8 of 269 Old 02-15-2008, 07:47 AM
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Quote:


24p Cinematic Playback
24p Playback(2:3)

Both the 50" 85 and 80 have one and not the other (and have the opposites). Is the cinematic playback the one with refresh rates at multiples of 24? Why would the 80 have it and not the 85?
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post #9 of 269 Old 02-15-2008, 08:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnylighton View Post

Shock and surprise? Please. What are Panasonic's managers smoking? They think they're going to compete with LCDs when the 50PZ80U, third tier from the top of their consumer line, is $2500? There better be room for some serious discounting or their market share is going bye bye. Especially if brightness is not significantly improved from last year (and it appears from their website that it isn't).

You're kidding right? Those are the just the MSRP's and they are very competitive. If you purchase from a certified online vendor, you'll get a discount. There's nothing wrong with those prices if their new panels will compete better with Pioneer's. If not, well...


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post #10 of 269 Old 02-15-2008, 10:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuance View Post

You're kidding right? Those are the just the MSRP's and they are very competitive. If you purchase from a certified online vendor, you'll get a discount. There's nothing wrong with those prices if their new panels will compete better with Pioneer's. If not, well...

My point is that prices have to come down significantly or they will continue lose market share to LCDs. In the vast majority of stores, a Samsung 4671 and a Sony XBR4 will SMOKE a Panasonic 700U as far as perceived quality. So will a Samsung 4665 for that matter. Most plasmas look fuzzy and dim in comparison. Of course, a good high-end dealer will set them up right and then you can tell that Kuro is the best. But it's also the most expensive. So Panny has to look to compete, not with Kuro, but with LCDs. That means they have to either be capable of being brighter in the store, or else cheaper. Otherwise people will walk right by. AND they hear talk about burn in, power consumption/heat, weight, etc.

The only thing I can think of about these prices is that Panny knows that the '09 models *will* be competitive in the stores, thus they don't want to establish a cheaper pricing structure for '08 only to want to raise it in '09.
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post #11 of 269 Old 02-15-2008, 10:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnylighton View Post

My point is that prices have to come down significantly or they will continue lose market share to LCDs. In the vast majority of stores, a Samsung 4671 and a Sony XBR4 will SMOKE a Panasonic 700U as far as perceived quality. So will a Samsung 4665 for that matter. Most plasmas look fuzzy and dim in comparison. Of course, a good high-end dealer will set them up right and then you can tell that Kuro is the best. But it's also the most expensive. So Panny has to look to compete, not with Kuro, but with LCDs. That means they have to either be capable of being brighter in the store, or else cheaper. Otherwise people will walk right by. AND they hear talk about burn in, power consumption/heat, weight, etc.

The only thing I can think of about these prices is that Panny knows that the '09 models *will* be competitive in the stores, thus they don't want to establish a cheaper pricing structure for '08 only to want to raise it in '09.

Last time I checked, LCD's at a comparable performance and size to a plasma cost more than plasma's. Where are you getting your #'s?

And no, an XBR4 will not smoke a plasma. They are riddled with issues and aren't as realistic looking as a plasma. Most people are used to overly bright blueish whites and gray blacks, but its not accurate/correct. No plasma I have seen looks "fuzzy" in comparison with an LCD. Dull, sure, but not fuzzy (you have to adjust them. They are in "torch" mode at the stores). But as I said earlier, they look dull to those who don't know what an image is truly suppose to look like. LCD's are way too bright and oversaturate colors. Just my opinion, of course.


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post #12 of 269 Old 02-15-2008, 10:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuance View Post

Last time I checked, LCD's at a comparable performance and size to a Plasma cost more than plasma's. Where are you getting your #'s?

I can't say for sure my numbers are right. In my mind, I was going on what I saw the plasmas going for at Circuit City and Best Buy, compared to what I could get the LCDs for on Amazon. So obviously that's not a fair comparison. But here are the Amazon numbers as of today:

MODS: This is a thread on how the lines are priced, so hopefully the below numbers will be taken in that regard. If this violates the rules, please leave the rest of my post and edit out the numbers.


So the current Panasonic 50" 1080p costs less than the 71 Sammys but more than the 65 Sammys, and the same as the 46XBR4, which displays much, much better in the stores despite the screen size difference. Any consumer worth his or her salt and who has a decent set of eyes would pick the 46XBR4 over the 50PZ700U BASED ON how the sets look in Circuit City or Best Buy and with the feeds they are receiving. Of course, when you get the set home, take it out of torch mode, and live with it, the 700U will be nicer to most of us. But Panasonic's goal has to be to get it purchased in the first place.

So I'm distinguishing here between typical consumers and enthusiasts. The one thing plasma has going for it with typical consumers is that CR encourages people to buy plasma and rates the Panny 700U as their top set.
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post #13 of 269 Old 02-15-2008, 11:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnylighton View Post

I can't say for sure my numbers are right. In my mind, I was going on what I saw the plasmas going for at Circuit City and Best Buy, compared to what I could get the LCDs for on Amazon. So obviously that's not a fair comparison. But here are the Amazon numbers as of today:

MODS: This is a thread on how the lines are priced, so hopefully the below numbers will be taken in that regard. If this violates the rules, please leave the rest of my post and edit out the numbers.

So the current Panasonic 50" 1080p costs less than the 71 Sammys but more than the 65 Sammys, and the same as the 46XBR4, which displays much, much better in the stores despite the screen size difference. Any consumer worth his or her salt and who has a decent set of eyes would pick the 46XBR4 over the 50PZ700U BASED ON how the sets look in Circuit City or Best Buy and with the feeds they are receiving. Of course, when you get the set home, take it out of torch mode, and live with it, the 700U will be nicer to most of us. But Panasonic's goal has to be to get it purchased in the first place.

So I'm distinguishing here between typical consumers and enthusiasts. The one thing plasma has going for it with typical consumers is that CR encourages people to buy plasma and rates the Panny 700U as their top set.

Thanks for the prices. I did, however, say that they had to be equal in performance. I guess that choice is up to the individual, but the only one of those I'd consider equal in performance to the Pioneer 5080HD that I have is the XBR4, but even that doesn't compare because of the issues it has. Hopefully the newer Panasonic's will change that!

Also, I can find all of the plasma models cheaper. You just have to know where to look, which is something most consumers don't know.

I agree about the typical consumer and the enthusiast. It's took bad the typical consumer gets swindled so often.

In the end, I feel plasma is a more accurate portrayal of what you would see if you were really there. It's like looking out of a window instead of looking at a painting. YMMV


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post #14 of 269 Old 02-15-2008, 11:19 AM
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does anyone know if Panasonic is coming out with a 46" 720p plasma or are they only making a 1080p 46". I cant afford the 1080p but want a panasonic so bad, so bad. I cant get a 50" 720p because i sit like 6 ft away and dont want a 42" cause its too small. anybody know?
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post #15 of 269 Old 02-15-2008, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by EazyduzIt View Post

Whoa! Power consumption on the 46" TH-46PZ85U = 628W. No mention of the 50". That's a heater. I was expecting Panasonic to bring down power consumption on plasma range.

How many watts would it be if the brightness was turned down? This seem outragous. 6 cents an hour to run.
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post #16 of 269 Old 02-15-2008, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by ashikojim View Post

does anyone know if Panasonic is coming out with a 46" 720p plasma or are they only making a 1080p 46". I cant afford the 1080p but want a panasonic so bad, so bad. I cant get a 50" 720p because i sit like 6 ft away and dont want a 42" cause its too small. anybody know?

It looks like they are only making 46" 1080P panels.

Here is a link to all the new sets.


http://www2.panasonic.com/consumer-e...00000000005702
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post #17 of 269 Old 02-15-2008, 11:30 AM
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Yup, that's correct greenland. 1080p is just standard now I guess.


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post #18 of 269 Old 02-15-2008, 11:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuance View Post

In the end, I feel plasma is a more accurate portrayal of what you would see if you were really there. It's like looking out of a window instead of looking at a painting. YMMV

Paintings can be pretty, but I'll take the window, thank you very much. We are on the same page here.

I was really taking issue with the "shock and surprise" at the new prices prediction. It's hard to adjust to what may be fair pricing after salivating at the idea of groundbreaking pricing.
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post #19 of 269 Old 02-15-2008, 12:03 PM
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Mid to late april....

Moving Picture Resolution 900 lines or more

i know lcd is 300 to 600ish but how does that stack up to other plasmas?
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post #20 of 269 Old 02-15-2008, 12:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnylighton View Post

Shock and surprise? Please. What are Panasonic's managers smoking? They think they're going to compete with LCDs when the 50PZ80U, third tier from the top of their consumer line, is $2500? There better be room for some serious discounting or their market share is going bye bye. Especially if brightness is not significantly improved from last year (and it appears from their website that it isn't).

In my opinion it is such a huge shame that people even consider lcd's as contenders to plasma at this time.
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post #21 of 269 Old 02-15-2008, 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by K9feces View Post

How many watts would it be if the brightness was turned down? This seem outragous. 6 cents an hour to run.

You have to be careful in reading the power consumption specs for plasmas. The spec is for the maximum power consumed if the screen is cranked to maximum brightness and showing a all white screen. Plasmas vary dynamically in power consumption related to the brightness of the displayed scene. A dark scene in a movie will use less power than a mostly white scene of snow or ice. LCD TVs with CCFLs are more constant in power as they block the back light, not dynamically vary it.

The rule of thumb is that in a typical home setting, the plasma TV will run at 40% to maybe 50% on average of the rated max spec power. For a 600 Watt spec, that would be in the ballpark of 240 to 300 Watts. You have to directly measure the power consumption over time, say several hours, to get a reliable average. I used a Kill-A-Watt meter (handy device) several times to measure the power consumption of my now older Panasonic 42PHD7UY commercial plasma at 140 Watts. The newer 1080p models use more power because of the greater number of pixel elements to drive, although I would have hoped they would have gotten the rated power consumption lower than 628 Watts.
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post #22 of 269 Old 02-15-2008, 12:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuance View Post

Yup, that's correct greenland. 1080p is just standard now I guess.

Except for this new 42inch 720P panel.

TH-42PX80U


NEW! 42" Class VIERA Plasma 720p HDTV with New Anti-Reflective Filter $1,199.95


Wisconsin is supposed to be getting hit with another big snow storm. Are you in the part of the state where it is supposed to hit?
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post #23 of 269 Old 02-15-2008, 12:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greenland View Post

Except for this new 42inch 720P panel.

TH-42PX80U




NEW! 42" Class VIERA Plasma 720p HDTV with New Anti-Reflective Filter $1,199.95


Wisconsin is supposed to be getting hit with another big snow storm. Are you in the part of the state where it is supposed to hit?

I stand corrected. Thanks for the update.

I'm just north of Milwaukee, so I think we're safe for today. We are suppose to get nailed again Sunday, though. It's really getting ridiculous. I believe we're just about at 80" of snow fall this year, and we're on pace to break the record (112 " I think). When will it end?


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post #24 of 269 Old 02-15-2008, 12:42 PM
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Uhm... what the Hell...??


They removed "24p Cinematic Playback" for the 85U and now it has "Yes" marked for 24p Playback(2:3)




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Quote:
Originally Posted by andywhoa View Post

Uhm... what the Hell...??


They removed "24p Cinematic Playback" for the 85U and now it has "Yes" marked for 24p Playback(2:3)

...


Can someone please explain to me what is the difference between "24p Cinematic Playback" and "24p Playback (2:3)"?

thanks,
Osho
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post #26 of 269 Old 02-15-2008, 12:49 PM
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A question about Pannasonic tiers: I understand that

85 - TIER 2
80 - TIER 3

Is this correct? What are the main differences between 85 and 80?

So, which are their 2008 TIER 1 models? Has anything been announced about them? What are the likely key differences between TIER 1 and TIER 2?

And, have the "Pro" models for any of the TIER announced? For which TIERs do they announce Pro model? And, what are the key differences between the Pro and non-Pro model likely to be in 2008 based on 2007 models?

Lot of questions but the Panny website is not really helpful in figuring out the differences between models.

thanks,
Osho
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post #27 of 269 Old 02-15-2008, 12:57 PM
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Early April now? What happened to the end of this month?
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post #28 of 269 Old 02-15-2008, 01:00 PM
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Originally Posted by osho_gg View Post

Lot of questions but the Panny website is not really helpful in figuring out the differences between models.

Besides the "Compare" checkboxes...
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post #29 of 269 Old 02-15-2008, 01:01 PM
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Heads up:

If you compare the 85 and 80 50" models, the "24p Cinematic Playback" spec IS there and it says "No" for both.
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post #30 of 269 Old 02-15-2008, 01:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by osho_gg View Post

A question about Pannasonic tiers: I understand that

85 - TIER 2
80 - TIER 3

Is this correct?

AFAIK tier 1 will be the 850 line and tier 2 will be the 800, then the 85 and 80 will be 3rd and 4th, respectively.
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