Will Belden HDMI by Blue Jeans Resolve A/V Drops? - AVS Forum
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HDMI Q&A - The One Connector World > Will Belden HDMI by Blue Jeans Resolve A/V Drops?
mifronte's Avatar mifronte 02:09 PM 12-17-2008
I am experiencing random intermittent video and/or audio HDMI drop outs. It appears that the drop outs occurs more frequently if I am running 1080p vs. 1080i.

As a software developer, the frequency of the drop outs appears to be like a memory bug that occurs at no pattern except the longer you go without an event, the more likely the event will occur. On average, it occurs once per movie playback. At most 3 times and at minimum every 3-5 movies (when I am lucky). If I am sending audio and video by HDMI from the sources to the AVR, then I will lose both audio and video. If I am sending audio via coax and video by component to the AVR, then I will lose only video when a drop occurs.

I have a Denon DVD 2910 and Sony DVPCX995V DVD Changer connected via Monoprice 1.5ft HDMI 1.3a cables to a Denon AVR3808ci. The Denon AVR3808ci is connected to a Sony 52" XBR4 via HDMI using either the Monoprice 15ft CL2 24AWG HDMI cable (purchased June 2007) or the Blue Jeans 15ft Series-2 24AWG HDMI cable (purchased June 2007).

Note, the two 15ft HDMI cables by Monoprice and Blue Jeans Cable looks exactly identical with the exception that the Monoprice cable has a net jacket. Both are Chinese made which was a real sore point for me that gave me the impression that Blue Jeans Cable was just another "Monster" selling snake oil because at the time of purchase, Blue Jeans Cable had not disclosed that their HDMI cables were from China and yet they were selling at a premium compared to Monoprice.

Anyway, I have posted in both the AVR3808ci and Sony XBR4 forums where other users are experiencing the same problem. So now that I see Blue Jeans Cable is offering the Belden HDMI cables, I was wondering if it would be worth it to invest in these cables to see if they would solve by HDMI drop out problems? This would be my first purchase from BJC since feeling like I had been snake oiled.

Hopefully cable experts can chime in to see if cabling is the most likely problem.

EDIT:
Video only drop outs last 1-2 seconds. Audio and video drop outs last 3-5 seconds since the AVR has to re-establish handshake with the source device.

crutschow's Avatar crutschow 03:36 PM 12-17-2008
From your description the dropout is apparently an issue between the TV and the Denon since you experience both video and audio dropping, and you get video dropping even when you use component input to the Denon. There could be some sort of handshake issue between the TV and the Denon.

I doubt that the 15ft HDMI cable is a problem. That's a reasonable distance for HDMI. Cable problems usually give sparkles, or other artifacts in the picture, not very infrequent dropouts. I assume your picture is okay otherwise.

If you connect the DVD directly to the TV with the 15 foot HDMI cable and run the audio via coax to the AVR, I assume you would have no problem.

How do you generate the 1080p signal?
mifronte's Avatar mifronte 03:52 PM 12-17-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by crutschow View Post

From your description the dropout is apparently an issue between the TV and the Denon since you experience both video and audio dropping, and you get video dropping even when you use component input to the Denon. There could be some sort of handshake issue between the TV and the Denon.

I doubt that the 15ft HDMI cable is a problem. That's a reasonable distance for HDMI. Cable problems usually give sparkles, or other artifacts in the picture, not very infrequent dropouts. I assume your picture is okay otherwise.

If you connect the DVD directly to the TV with the 15 foot HDMI cable and run the audio via coax to the AVR, I assume you would have no problem.

How do you generate the 1080p signal?

Other than the drop outs, the picture is absolutely great. The Denon AVR3808ci is scaling the 480p signal from my sources to 1080p.

I have been hesitant to by-pass the Denon AVR for video since the Faroudja DCDi Video Processing and Scaling FLI2310 of the AVR does a better job then the internal video processing of the Sony XBR4. But that is one of the scenario I have on my list to try so that I can isolate this drop out issue further.
KurtBJC's Avatar KurtBJC 07:37 PM 12-17-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by mifronte View Post

As a software developer, the frequency of the drop outs appears to be like a memory bug that occurs at no pattern except the longer you go without an event, the more likely the event will occur.

What you're describing here sounds more like some sort of device interface issue than a cable issue; it could be something like an occasional failure to connect on an HDCP handshake, or something like that. It's not the sort of thing that cable ordinarily can cause, so I would be surprised if a cable swap would fix it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mifronte View Post

Note, the two 15ft HDMI cables by Monoprice and Blue Jeans Cable looks exactly identical with the exception that the Monoprice cable has a net jacket. Both are Chinese made which was a real sore point for me that gave me the impression that Blue Jeans Cable was just another "Monster" selling snake oil because at the time of purchase, Blue Jeans Cable had not disclosed that their HDMI cables were from China and yet they were selling at a premium compared to Monoprice.

I think you and I may have discussed this in another thread at some point. I would like to make a few things clear:

First, I do not know whether Monoprice has used the same Copartner stock in any of its cables that we used in the Series-2. I do know, however, that Copartner makes a wide variety of HDMI cable stocks, most of them round-jacketed. The fact that both cables were round-jacketed Copartner stocks does not mean that they were the same cable, and in fact, I think that the cable from Monoprice which you are talking about was a tin-plated, rather than a silver-plated, version. I am reasonably sure, from what I know of the assembly houses involved, that they were not assembled in the same plant where the Monoprice cables were being assembled.

Second, we actually did discuss the Chinese origin of the Series-2 cable on our site. At no time did we state, or imply, that we ourselves manufactured the Series-2 cable. When we introduced the Series-2 we had the Belden HDMI in development, and at that time or shortly thereafter, we brought that development project up in articles on our site. We pointed out that we were routinely asked by customers why we simply rebranded a Chinese HDMI cable rather than making our own, and we explained that, in fact, ALL sellers of HDMI cable at that time simply rebranded Chinese cables because there were no manufacturers of HDMI cable outside of China. As we explained, we hoped to change that, and eventually we did. Today, our Belden HDMI cables are the ONLY HDMI cable stocks not made in China (although--as we also make clear on the site--they are terminated there).

It certainly was my impression at the time that it was common knowledge among our customers that our HDMI cable, and all competing products, were Chinese-made. I was asked by customers on the telephone, dozens of times, why we would outsource this supply rather than manufacture these cables in-house.

Our cable was more expensive, at the time, than the lowest-priced Monoprice products. However, those lowest-priced Monoprice products generally used a tin-plated copper 24 AWG stock from Copartner, while the Series-2 used a costlier silver-plated copper stock. The cable cost more at retail simply because it cost more to make. While prices both on our site and at Monoprice fluctuated over time, to the best of my recollection our prices on cables made using 24 AWG silver-plated Copartner stock were usually lower than Monoprice's pricing on cables made using 24 AWG silver-plated Copartner stock. Whether those stocks were in fact the same I cannot say for certain; but our pricing was always competitive, and we never misrepresented the origin of the goods to anyone.

Kurt
Blue Jeans Cable
mifronte's Avatar mifronte 08:37 PM 12-17-2008
Thanks Kurt for the opinion that the problem may not be cable related. Also thank you for explaining the difference in HDMI cable quality.

FWIW, here is the description on the Monoprice order:

Product 2282 HDMI to HDMI CL2 Rated Cable (24AWG) w/net jacket-15ft (Gold Plated). Would this mean it is still tin-plated?

I cannot locate my Blue Jeans Cable receipt back in mid-2007 to determine the actual description of the cable that I had purchased. However, the print on the actual cable said Series 2 24AWG SPC Style 20276.

However, if I had to do it again today, I would not hesitate to order the Belden HDMI cable from Blue Jeans Cable and in a way, I was hoping that the Belden cable might solve my pesty HDMI drop out problems. I guess I am not so lucky.
KurtBJC's Avatar KurtBJC 08:56 PM 12-17-2008
Yes, I'm pretty sure that's the tin-plated HDMI stock from Monoprice. I'm not sure whether they still carry the same exact product today, as their product line has shifted around somewhat, but it used to be that all of their net-jacket offerings were tin-plated. The reference in the description to the gold plating is to the connector and not the cable (cables are, for all practical purposes, never gold-plated, while connectors frequently are), so doesn't provide any further info on the point.

The SPC on the jacket would mean "silver-plated copper"--I hadn't recalled, actually, that we ever had that on the jacket, but it would be a reasonable thing to have put there. The 20276 is the AWM style; I don't recall exactly what that means, but all or nearly all HDMI cables will carry that AWM style if they have any AWM style marking at all.

While there is some possibility that a cable swap might fix the problem--stranger things have happened where HDMI is concerned, certainly--my guess is that it would not. It is always possible that something funny is happening on the DDC line because of something like cable capacitance, and that a different cable would fix it, but I'd say the far likelier scenario is that it wouldn't. If you do want to try a swap-out, though, bear in mind that we do take anything back for ANY reason within 30 days--so if you want to try it, the only cost if you returned it would be that we don't refund shipping (and your return shipping cost, of course).

Kurt
Blue Jeans Cable
ChrisWiggles's Avatar ChrisWiggles 10:16 AM 12-20-2008
I would tend to agree with Kurt that it sounds less like a cabling issue, however I absolutely would still test this theory by replacing the cabling to troubleshoot, or move the devices right next to each other and use a very short cable (where you are extremely unlikely to encounter HDMI cabling issues at all).

I have seen some very strange things with HDMI cabling, and it wouldn't necessarily surprise me.

The strangest thing I ever saw was some minor sparklies at distance which, about 2 minutes later after swapping to that new cable, began to worsen significantly, then full-blown snow began at the top of the picture, and over the course of about 30 seconds worsened and crept down the image until it was all snow. Can't explain that one. Heat? HDMI connector shifting in the socket? Cable bending? Who knows. HDMI oftentimes feels more like using a divining rod than science... :-/
tokerblue's Avatar tokerblue 08:45 AM 12-21-2008
I have a Denon 3808ci and I have seen numerous threads concerning handshaking issues between it and the Sony LCD's. I would double check in the receiver section for more information.
bpate's Avatar bpate 11:12 PM 12-23-2008
I am having a similar problem to what you have describe and while I have a Sony 52XBR4 all of the rest of my equipment is different.

I use a PS3 as my only HDMI source and it is connected to a Marantz SR6003 receiver which is then connected to my 52XBR4.

I experience random drops of 1-2 seconds during which time the receiver displays "no data" and I lose picture and sound. Prior to my purchase of the Marantz 6003 receiver I had the PS3 connected directly to my 52XBR4 without any probems.


I have tried every thing I could think of so far, but I still experience the problems.

-I tried changing cables
-I tried different settings on my PS3, receiver and TV
-I tried a different PS3
-I changed my power configuration
-I added cooling
-I swapped out Marantz SR6003s


After seeing this thread, I am wondering if the problem might be between the XBR and the Marantz. The fact that we have the same TV and same receiver company (Marantz = Denon, right?) and are experiencing the same problem makes me wonder.


-Bryan
DMD123's Avatar DMD123 10:20 AM 12-24-2008
The other thing not mentioned yet is firmware updates. Are all your units running the latest firmware? Check to see if new updates are available on the receiver, source and TV.
bpate's Avatar bpate 01:36 PM 12-25-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by DMD123 View Post

The other thing not mentioned yet is firmware updates. Are all your units running the latest firmware? Check to see if new updates are available on the receiver, source and TV.

I have been trying to get support from Marantz and I have asked them about firmware upgrades, but they won't answer this specific question. As for my Sony, I have submitted a request for an upgrade, but who knows when I will get it...
bpate's Avatar bpate 03:01 PM 12-26-2008
I just thought I would provide an update...

I notice that the receiver loses all HDMI whenever my XBR4 is turned on or off.

I thought that perhaps there is a grounding issue (XBR4 uses grounded - 3 prong plug while the Marantz uses a 2 prong polarized plug) and I have tried running a grounding wire from the Marantz chassis to the TV chassis, but no change. However, perhaps the XBR4's chassis is isolated from the electrical ground? (It has been a while since I have messed with this sort of thing).

Anyone know if I should try connecting the Marantz chassis to the electrical ground (3rd prong)? It seems funny to me that the Marantz depends on either the chassis or the electrical neutral for grounding.

Any suggestions? I'm running out of time - I am very strongly considering returning the Marantz, but I'm not sure what receiver I would get that would work properly with my XBR4.


-Bryan
Beaker1024's Avatar Beaker1024 07:45 AM 12-27-2008
You're not alone. I have a Sony KDL-52XBR4 TV and got a Denon 2309ci AVR around Oct and just after a month of usage it has started doing the very same A/V dropouts EXACTLY as you describe. Completely random and not "triggered" in anyway.

I called Denon tech support on Dec 26th (yes they answered after 30 min, I was suprised they were open). I was told they never heard of any HDMI issues like this (only during powering up/down or input change). Go check the AVR Forum the Official Denon 3808ci thread and search it you'll find many have this same issue. I'm pretty sure Always with a Sony LCD TV (maybe even XBR4 specifically?).

BTW I've had enough of this issue and called Dec 26th because on Christmas day I had the droupout occur during a classic holiday family favorite DVD. Nothing like a sharp speaker pop and then black screen (no audio) to jar you out of the moment! I've gone into "fix it" rather than "deal with it" mode. And no I don't have a solution yet.
david515mi's Avatar david515mi 09:10 AM 12-27-2008
I've been dealing with the exact same problem for some time now. The TV is a Panasonic plasma, about 3 years old. There is only one HDMI input. I have tried various sources (a Marantz 9500 universal player, a new Panasonic 35 blu-ray disc player, and cable box). I've also tried 5 or 6 brands of HDMI cable (various lengths, from 1.5 to 15 ft.). The problem persists. By deduction, it appears likely that the problem may be in the TV, though I can't find evidence of a firmware upgrade. I've made arrangements for the TV to be taken in for service, but I'm wondering whether I should even bother. Maybe the solution is to settle for component (with which I never have a problem), and sacrifice dvd upscaling. What do you think?

David
Viking 29's Avatar Viking 29 10:45 AM 12-27-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beaker1024 View Post

You're not alone. I have a Sony KDL-52XBR4 TV and got a Denon 2309ci AVR around Oct and just after a month of usage it has started doing the very same A/V dropouts EXACTLY as you describe. Completely random and not "triggered" in anyway.

I called Denon tech support on Dec 26th (yes they answered after 30 min, I was suprised they were open). I was told they never heard of any HDMI issues like this (only during powering up/down or input change). Go check the AVR Forum the Official Denon 3808ci thread and search it you'll find many have this same issue. I'm pretty sure Always with a Sony LCD TV (maybe even XBR4 specifically?).

BTW I've had enough of this issue and called Dec 26th because on Christmas day I had the droupout occur during a classic holiday family favorite DVD. Nothing like a sharp speaker pop and then black screen (no audio) to jar you out of the moment! I've gone into "fix it" rather than "deal with it" mode. And no I don't have a solution yet.

My god this is ridiculous isn't it! I have that same annoying pop and lose audio and video for 2 seconds or so. I also have a Sony XBR4 and i happen to have a Denon 2809CI. I can't stand not knowing when its gonna happen again but it's really growing on me. I've swapped out my hdmi cables to no avail. I'm assuming that it's an issue between the receiver and TV at this point and now I don't know what to do about it. Keep me posted bro.
Beaker1024's Avatar Beaker1024 10:57 AM 12-27-2008
When I come to a solution I'll start another thread and post a link / pointer in this one to it.
Viking 29's Avatar Viking 29 11:02 AM 12-27-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beaker1024 View Post

When I come to a solution I'll start another thread and post a link / pointer in this one to it.

Thanks man, i'll be checking id daily.
mifronte's Avatar mifronte 12:16 PM 12-27-2008
Anyone experiencing the HDMI drop outs using only Belden HDMI cable in the entire A/V chain?

I have tried every possible combination of HDMI settings on the Denon3808ci including video pass-through (I/P scaler off) and turning off Motion Enhancer and Cinemotion on the XBR4 with no success. Both my Denon AVR3808ci and Sony XBR4 has the lastest firmware. The AVR's firmware is 1.97 (just before the feature package upgrade) and the Sony is the Feb. 2008 firmware.

I also had the HDMI controller board on the XBR4 replaced in early Nov. 2008 for HDMI input 1 & 3 and again with no success.

I have two sources connected to the AVR, one via component and coaxial, and the other via HDMI. I only get video drops on the source connected via component and coaxial. I get both video and audio drops on the source connected via HDMI.

I am now going to try HDMI input 2 on the XBR 4. Since this input is on the side of the TV, it is a different controller board.

If this doesn't solve the problem, then I may spend the $50 to get all Belden HDMI cables just as a last desperation act. So far, all the HDMI cables (Monoprice, Blue Jeans Cable series 2, Impact Acoustics) I have tried are Chinese made.
DMD123's Avatar DMD123 03:27 PM 12-29-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by bpate View Post

I have been trying to get support from Marantz and I have asked them about firmware upgrades, but they won't answer this specific question. As for my Sony, I have submitted a request for an upgrade, but who knows when I will get it...

The Marantz SR6003 is still pretty new and may not have any new updates.

Its kind of funny but I have had similar problems with you guessed it a Sony TV and a Marantz receiver. I have an older 50SXRD XBR1 and a SR7002. I have posted my problem in the amp/receiver section.

My problem happens when I bitstream the new audio formats from my blu ray. It will not sync up with the TV until I unplug the receiver for 3 minutes and plug it back in. I have to do this each and every time I use it! It works fine if I do PCM, it just does not like bitstream. All this happened after a firmware update.

After 3 times in to Marantz for updating firmware and trouble shooting they are sending me a different unit. I have been without my receiver now for 2 1/2 months. Maybe its just my bad experience with Marantz that is making me say this, but if I had the chance I would drop Marantz in a heartbeat and get something else.
Beaker1024's Avatar Beaker1024 12:15 PM 01-01-2009
Update: I did a microprocessor reset (only suggestion Denon Tech support gave beyond bring into service center and I don't want to go through what DMD123 has reported) on Dec 26th. Today, Jan 1st I had my first dropout issue again. All I have done is run Audeseyy autosetup (6 positions) and assigned a few digital inputs correctly and that's it.

So as expected microprocessor reset = no fix. I don't get why tech support keeps saying they have never heard of this issue before! Wish I had gone with my gut and got the PioElite now!
Viking 29's Avatar Viking 29 10:38 AM 01-02-2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beaker1024 View Post

Update: I did a microprocessor reset (only suggestion Denon Tech support gave beyond bring into service center and I don't want to go through what DMD123 has reported) on Dec 26th. Today, Jan 1st I had my first dropout issue again. All I have done is run Audeseyy autosetup (6 positions) and assigned a few digital inputs correctly and that's it.

So as expected microprocessor reset = no fix. I don't get why tech support keeps saying they have never heard of this issue before! Wish I had gone with my gut and got the PioElite now!

Well that sucks Beaker, we all know that a reset isn't going to fix the issue. I hate tech support sometimes. I had dropouts last night while watching a movie and I am becoming more and more annoyed by it. Does this problem seem to be only with Sony TV's? I haven't heard anyone say another brand.
bpate's Avatar bpate 07:57 PM 01-07-2009
Well I bought some of the Belden cables from BlueJean Cables to see if there was any chance they might fix the problem, but I wasn't even able to connect them and now my receiver won't turn on. The standby light just blinks.

All other devices on this power source work just fine.

I think I am really starting to regret this purchase. I have never had a piece of electronics like this that failed so much and also failed at its primary role (i.e. I'm not trying to do anything special with it).


Is Marantz just [expensive] crap or do I have a lemon?

-Bryan
mifronte's Avatar mifronte 02:16 PM 01-08-2009
Well, I am at my last resort in trying to solve the HDMI drop out issue between by Denon AVR3808ci and Sony XBR4. I just placed my order with Blue Jeans Cable for two Belden Series-F2 cables at 2 feet and one Belden Series-F2 cable at 12 feet.

Once I take delivery of the cables, all my devices will be exclusively connected using the Belden Series-F2 cables. This is a long shot, but at least I will have some piece of mind that I have done everything possible to resolve the HDMI drop out problem.

Too bad bpate couldn't test the Belden cables to save me some $$.
Viking 29's Avatar Viking 29 05:43 PM 01-08-2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by mifronte View Post

Well, I am at my last resort in trying to solve the HDMI drop out issue between by Denon AVR3808ci and Sony XBR4. I just placed my order with Blue Jeans Cable for two Belden Series-F2 cables at 2 feet and one Belden Series-F2 cable at 12 feet.

Once I take delivery of the cables, all my devices will be exclusively connected using the Belden Series-F2 cables. This is a long shot, but at least I will have some piece of mind that I have done everything possible to resolve the HDMI drop out problem.

Too bad bpate couldn't test the Belden cables to save me some $$.

Yeah, my buddy has a Denon 2309CI and a Sony XBR4 and he has the same problem as me. He also has monoprice cables and can't seem to get it to quit dropping out. Seems to me like one of these two companies needs to work out a fix on this issue. I don't get how something this stupid can be happening.
DMD123's Avatar DMD123 11:38 AM 01-09-2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by bpate View Post

Well I bought some of the Belden cables from BlueJean Cables to see if there was any chance they might fix the problem, but I wasn't even able to connect them and now my receiver won't turn on. The standby light just blinks.

All other devices on this power source work just fine.

I think I am really starting to regret this purchase. I have never had a piece of electronics like this that failed so much and also failed at its primary role (i.e. I'm not trying to do anything special with it).


Is Marantz just [expensive] crap or do I have a lemon?

-Bryan

Hey Bryan,

Sorry to hear about the problem.

With my Marantz SR7002 the problems occurred after a firmware update. After 2 1/2 months with no receiver, multiple e-mails and phone calls, and shipping the unit to Marantz 3 times, they replaced it. ( I had call tags sent out to me, so no money out of pocket on shipping) They let me upgrade to a SR8002. Everything works just fine now.

I think you may have got a lemon. Marantz usually is pretty good stuff. This receiver problem is the first Ive encountered with Marantz. And I have purchased quite a few products over the past couple of years from them with no issues (2 CD players, 2 HT Receivers, 1 Stereo Receiver, 1 DVD Player).

How new is the receiver? Can you return it to the dealer?
Beaker1024's Avatar Beaker1024 09:23 AM 01-12-2009
I haven't gotten around to drawing up a quick diagram but this isn't hard to visualize.

Assumptions:
1) You can't run multiple direct HDMI lines to your Sony TV.
2) The issue is between our Sony Bravia TV and the Denon AVR.
3) You have a universal remote that can be programmed to handle a HDMI switch.

Idea: Take the Denon AVR out of the HDMI "path" for your important (don't want to have any chance of dropout) video sources.

Setup: Get a HDMI switch and put it inline between the TV and have the AVR HDMI output goto one of the switch inputs. Hookup digital (Coax or toslink) connections from the source that is now bypassing the AVR to the AVR.

Problems:
1) High def audio formats from BluRay or HD-DVD sources. Idea: get a HDMI splitter (have one HDMI input and outputs simultaneously two HDMI outputs) and have one to the switch for Video to hit TV and one goto AVR for the audio. Just have to keep up with the source assignments on the AVR. [See Monoprice for HDMI splitter 1 to 2.]

2) To get non HDMI video to the TV the AVR still does the A-->D video conversion (I have upscaling off) so you'll still get dropouts for these sources.
mifronte's Avatar mifronte 05:22 PM 01-22-2009
Well, after purchasing the Belden 28AWG HDMI cables by Blue Jeans Cable (Series-F2) to connect my sources to the Denon AVR3808ci and the AVR to my Sony XBR4, the HDMI dropouts still occur.

I used 2 feet Belden 28AWG HDMI cables (Series-F2) to connect my sources to the Denon AVR3808ci. Then I connected the AVR to the Sony XBR4 using a 12 feet Belden 28AWG HDMI cable (Series-F2).

So the conclusion is that the problem is definitely not cable related and that one should not mix Denon and Sony products via HDMI.

The next step is to accept defeat and live with the problem
BuGsArEtAsTy's Avatar BuGsArEtAsTy 05:43 PM 01-22-2009
I had a horizontal green flash issue with a Sony BDP-S350 as the source and a Panasonic PT-AX200U LCD projector. I thought it might be the cable, because my cable was fairly long and not very thick and because someone else with the same issue solved it by putting in signal repeater in the chain, close to the projector. Also, similar flashes are known to occur with marginal cables.

However, I managed to fix it simply with a firmware update on the projector, so perhaps this is just an incompatibility issue. After the firmware update, it never happened again.

OTOH, it turns out that this line of cable was in actual fact marginal for my equipment. On another setup, this 25 foot long 26 AWG tinned Copartner cable was problematic with 1080p60. I would get bands of snow for a split second once in a while.

How does this apply to you? Maybe not at all, but the one point to note here is that guy who fixed his problem (without a firmware update) simply by adding an HDMI signal repeater. I'm stretching here, but perhaps that signal repeater between two components can somehow "hide" minor component incompatibilities between them, while at the same time repeating the signal with two shorter cables instead of one long one where signal degradation could be an issue. I am only mentioning this because it might represent a last ditch attempt to fix your problem, short of buying a new receiver or whatever.

P.S. For my 25' run I am now using Blue Jeans Series 2 (24 gauge silver). For my short runs (less than 10'), I use all sorts of stuff, including 28 gauge tinned Copartner / Tartan and sometimes 24 gauge (just because). If I had to go significantly longer than 25', I'd probably stick with maybe Blue Jeans Series 1 or perhaps some sort of 22 gauge cable.
Beaker1024's Avatar Beaker1024 10:16 AM 01-23-2009
I have a BlueJeans Series 1 (biggest/best they sell) for my 35ft run from AVR to TV. I"m 99.999% sure that the issue is not this cable but the seen by many (with shorter runs) Denon AVR & Sony LCD TV combo HDMI problem.

My Oppo HM-31 is in the mail as I type and I will try to put into place the plan I described a few posts above.
MMorrow's Avatar MMorrow 02:33 PM 02-28-2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by mifronte View Post

Well, ... (with the) Denon AVR3808ci and ... Sony XBR4, the HDMI dropouts still occur.
...

The next step is to accept defeat and live with the problem

I recently found Mifronte's posts and this thread, and I too have a 3808ci and XBR4 set that has this issue. I have been living with this waiting for a fix, but not happily, since when spending top $ on such equipment you expect better. When the problem occurs and the annoyance is fresh in my mind it is always off hours for Denon's support desk. Has anyone that has contacted Denon and/or Sony had them offer a solution other than a denial that such an issue exists? My gut tells me the Denon software has an issue that is causing a glitch which is only being picked up by the HDCP settings on the XBR4 set. Seems like either side could correct the problem, Denon by fixing the glitch or Sony be reducing the XBR's sensitivity to the glitch, but first we need them to care enough to look into the problem. I have no proof of the cause so it is hard to pin blame, but I for one will not be buying any future Denon or Sony products until something is done. I will leave them to determine if my future business is worth their effort. I doubt they spend much time reading the avsforum, so I will be sending them both a letter to document my dissatisfaction with their products and urge others to do the same.
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