Does anyone know if HDCP compliant HDMI cables are a myth? - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 50 Old 08-17-2011, 10:33 AM - Thread Starter
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I believe the WDTV is designed to work this way, as it has before.

As otto stated before,
quote "The plus sounds like an upgrade for the 2 so it makes no sense that they would "down engineer" it."

This is in fact true the WDTV Live plus HD media player is a newer player, it makes no sense whatsoever to reduce functionality, but rather increase functionality.

I'm going to actually test this to prove more TV's can do this than one thinks, I bet most of the TVs with digital optical outs can do this, probably over 75% of them. IT does not make any sense to put an digital optical/coaxial out if you cannot use it for pass-through. Why put stereo outs (White/Red RCA) and a optical out at the same time, if they do the same thing?????

I will be testing with the Generation 2 WDTV of course, then for TV that are successful with the digital pass-through, I will test with the live and watch them likely fail.
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post #32 of 50 Old 08-17-2011, 11:29 AM
 
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[quote=johncccccc;20833483]I believe the WDTV is designed to work this way, as it has before.

...

I'm going to actually test this to prove more TV's can do this than one thinks, I bet most of the TVs with digital optical outs can do this, probably over 75% of them. IT does not make any sense to put an digital optical/coaxial out if you cannot use it for pass-through. Why put stereo outs (White/Red RCA) and a optical out at the same time, if they do the same thing?????

...QUOTE]

Don't quote numbers if you can't back them up. Where did 3/4s come from?

It does make sense to those people who want HDMI to be a completely closed digital transmission method. Allowing HDMI digital audio output to be repeated in digital form over a separate audio path allows for a hole in their paranoid closed system. HDMI was designed for point-to-point only. RCA stereo outs are, by definition, analog and 2-channel. They have less paranoia over analog audio outputs (although they are trying to close off Blu-Ray's analog video outputs as we speak). Don't ever underestimate the HDMI Org's unwillingness to let someone "see" any part of the HDMI digital signal (encrypted or unencrypted) even after being converted and shipped off to a Toslink output.
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post #33 of 50 Old 08-17-2011, 11:44 AM - Thread Starter
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[quote=alk3997;20833751]
Quote:
Originally Posted by johncccccc View Post

I believe the WDTV is designed to work this way, as it has before.

...

I'm going to actually test this to prove more TV's can do this than one thinks, I bet most of the TVs with digital optical outs can do this, probably over 75% of them. IT does not make any sense to put an digital optical/coaxial out if you cannot use it for pass-through. Why put stereo outs (White/Red RCA) and a optical out at the same time, if they do the same thing?????

...QUOTE]

Don't quote numbers if you can't back them up. Where did 3/4s come from?

It does make sense to those people who want HDMI to be a completely closed digital transmission method. Allowing HDMI digital audio output to be repeated in digital form over a separate audio path allows for a hole in their paranoid closed system. HDMI was designed for point-to-point only. RCA stereo outs are, by definition, analog and 2-channel. They have less paranoia over analog audio outputs (although they are trying to close off Blu-Ray's analog video outputs as we speak). Don't ever underestimate the HDMI Org's unwillingness to let someone "see" any part of the HDMI digital signal (encrypted or unencrypted) even after being converted and shipped off to a Toslink output.

3/4s --- What do you mean?

I simply quoted otto so +1 that there is no sense in downgrading a feature, like DST pass-through.

About the closed signal, whats the benefit in that, I see none, but I am an HDMI n00b.
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post #34 of 50 Old 08-17-2011, 01:04 PM
 
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[quote=johncccccc;20833834]
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Originally Posted by alk3997 View Post


3/4s --- What do you mean?

I simply quoted otto so +1 that there is no sense in downgrading a feature, like DST pass-through.

About the closed signal, whats the benefit in that, I see none, but I am an HDMI n00b.

Closed system supposed means that people can't "steal" the data.

Your said 75% of TVs will work. I was wondering where that number came from?
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post #35 of 50 Old 08-17-2011, 01:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Oh that lol, I was assuming my future results
"I bet most of the TVs with digital optical outs can do this, probably over 75% of them"

Steal data, I really do not understand this, if I have a; lets say "open" system, however that may be, how does that make it easy for people to steal data?



In other News:
Its been over 24 hours and no reply from WD support, I guess they are busy, I hope someone who actually knows something about the WDTV replies, not just someone who knows about their HDDs or something.
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post #36 of 50 Old 08-17-2011, 01:31 PM
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Just because the TV has some "design capability" built into it, doesn't mean the "upper layer protocols" allow them to be used for what ever reason (ie. legal, data "piracy", etc). Further, the toslink could be used for over the air broadcast reception by the TV (if capable) with the sound then being sent to your receiver in the format that was broadcast (ie.5.1 pcm or what ever).... I think that is a lot of its intension/purpose.
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post #37 of 50 Old 08-17-2011, 01:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by budwich View Post

Just because the TV has some "design capability" built into it, doesn't mean the "upper layer protocols" allow them to be used for what ever reason (ie. legal, data "piracy", etc). Further, the toslink could be used for over the air broadcast reception by the TV (if capable) with the sound then being sent to your receiver in the format that was broadcast (ie.5.1 pcm or what ever).... I think that is a lot of its intension/purpose.

See, but I would have to do that, somebody else could not, besides, the WDTV amongst many other devices have the optical out anyway, so are we not already open to that anyway, this would be assuming I wanted to broadcast myself and intentionally set something up that way.
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post #38 of 50 Old 08-17-2011, 02:32 PM
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I think you missed the point. You can have the wdtv box send its digital optical out to a "sink" device beit a receiver OR TV via the optical. What you can't "necessarily" do is have the HDMI data stream "decomposed" at a "sink" and then have that device "forward" the digital audio in "all its glory" (ie. 5.1) out of the forwarding device (ie. TV or even receiver... give it a try... doesn't work either) in most cases because of the reasons that have been mentioned.

In my opinion, your setup is "fallible" for basically this "problem" which is why a lot of people send "stuff" to their receivers directly.
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post #39 of 50 Old 08-17-2011, 02:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by budwich View Post

Further, the toslink could be used for over the air broadcast reception by the TV (if capable) with the sound then being sent to your receiver in the format that was broadcast (ie.5.1 pcm or what ever).... I think that is a lot of its intension/purpose.

That is exactly how I use the toslink cable. OTA ATSC/8VSB transmission allows for DTS 5.1 to be part of the 19Mbps MPEG-2 data stream. So when I have my roof top antenna connected to the tv (LG in my case), the audio passes thru to my HTS and plays perfect surround sound. If the WDTV has toslink out and some sort of audio/video signal coming in, then it should work the same way if it's connected directly to the receiver. Run the HDMI cable out from the WDTV directly to the tv for video and toslink to the receiver for audio. Turn off the tv speakers and there you are. Or toslink out from the tv to the receiver, but I've said that before.
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post #40 of 50 Old 08-17-2011, 03:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Otto Pylot View Post

That is exactly how I use the toslink cable. OTA ATSC/8VSB transmission allows for DTS 5.1 to be part of the 19Mbps MPEG-2 data stream. So when I have my roof top antenna connected to the tv (LG in my case), the audio passes thru to my HTS and plays perfect surround sound. If the WDTV has toslink out and some sort of audio/video signal coming in, then it should work the same way if it's connected directly to the receiver. Run the HDMI cable out from the WDTV directly to the tv for video and toslink to the receiver for audio. Turn off the tv speakers and there you are. Or toslink out from the tv to the receiver, but I've said that before.

That's how I have it set up when I'm using the WDTV. When its set up like this, My other TV inputs are not able to use the receiver. (unless I unplug the "delicate" optical cable from the WDTV and put it into my tv, which is mounted on the wall and a PITA to change this cable). Then when I'm done with it, unplug from the TV and back into the WDTV it goes. I have an Xbox360 and My PC input which uses this whole configuration to get the sound from these devices into my receiver, all with the touch of a button on the TV remote, you can see how frustrating this is just to use something other than the WDTV.

I want to concentrate on this error message anyway, "Not Supported by TV".

It does appear that the WDTV believes my TV is not supported, when it clearly is. I'm Googling at a mile a minute looking for similar situations which are resolved..

Check this Google search out " WDTV "Not supported by tv" " just quotes on not supported by tv part. So far the most useful information is indexed, shame we already know this... lol .

___________
Still no reply from WD support...
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post #41 of 50 Old 08-17-2011, 03:22 PM
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It sounds like maybe your "actual issue" is not having enough inputs on your receiver... :-( Common problem... your solution is an optical switch... :-)
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post #42 of 50 Old 08-17-2011, 03:33 PM - Thread Starter
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I bought this receiver because of the lack of ports, its a Sony Bravia 1000 watt, I got it for about $200, its sounds very nice, but lacks a few ports. I didn't care for this since I knew that I could simply plug the output of the TV into the surround, then place inputs on the TV, which worked well with the WDTV Gen2, which supposed to work for the WDTV Live plus.

The idea was posted earlier to introduce a second optical cable which would be converted to a coaxial using a converter, price for all this is about $30 give or take, a new optical cable (nice) for about $5, a converter costs about $20 and a coaxial cable (nice) for about $5.

Plug the WD into the Coaxial in and the TV into the Optical in, or vica versa. They are both the same channel on the receiver, so it would not be an issue anymore.

Pros:
It solves the issue.

Cons:
Costs about $30.
More cables messing up my area.
Converter is a Powered device, another thing to plug in and turn off when done.

The cons outweigh the pros, a lot. If I become so desperate, then yes, I really just want it to work without all the mess, I guess I will have to wait and see what support say.
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post #43 of 50 Old 08-17-2011, 03:41 PM
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I don't know dude. It seems like you've created a whole lot of problems for yourself by buying a receiver that doesn't have enough, or any, HDMI inputs/output. Continually plugging cables in and out of inputs is not a good idea or jerry-rigging cables to match (optical to coax) is just plain crazy. Cable simplicity is the name of the game. Besides, it sounds like the WDTV has too many issues (customer support and otherwise) to be worth it. Just my $.02.
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post #44 of 50 Old 08-17-2011, 03:42 PM
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Not what I suggested... I said get an optical switch... not converting, more ports 3/4. with a remote... no turn off. Anyways, keep bumping along, you might find the "ultimately solution" somewhere. Good luck is your search.
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post #45 of 50 Old 08-17-2011, 03:52 PM - Thread Starter
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I know you suggested a switch, I just see them both connected at the same time more convenient, I guess a switch would be cheaper, still, its another thing I need to change every time, I like this ITEM however, pretty cheap too, just gotta buy 2 more optical cables, shorter ones

Either or would work, but the switch will keep it optical all the way, a convert may cause lag, I have no idea if it will, but if it does, its another problem. I guess the switch idea is better, I will probably do that if I cannot get this thing working the way it supposed to.

Still waiting on support to reply, I guess while were waiting, anyone got a suggestion for a good receiver. I heard Yamaha make really good ones with so may ports you can get lost, what you you all think?
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post #46 of 50 Old 08-17-2011, 07:08 PM - Thread Starter
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I decided to go ahead and buy the switch and 2 additional cables, got it all for under $11.

I think I fell in love right now, check it out

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16882115273

Does that have enough inputs and features
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post #47 of 50 Old 08-17-2011, 07:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johncccccc View Post

Still waiting on support to reply, I guess while were waiting, anyone got a suggestion for a good receiver. I heard Yamaha make really good ones with so may ports you can get lost, what you you all think?

My HTS is modest but I do have a Yamaha receiver (HTR-3064) that suits my needs, and budget, perfectly. 4 High Speed HDMI inputs and 1 High Speed HDMI output (ARC supported), plenty enough power for me, lossless audio, etc. I like my Yamaha. No problems what so ever (unlike some of the Onkyo folks).

Good luck with support but my guess is that they're going to give you the run around.
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post #48 of 50 Old 08-18-2011, 01:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Support have got back to me now, seems we're finally on the same page, support agrees that the wiring configuration should work and have actually listened to me about the WDTV Gen2 working.

That have asked for media info on the file that I have tested on both WDTV's, although none of my DTS videos work on WDTV Live plus and they ALL work on my WDTV Gen2, for the sake of complications, I have listed one file, the exact same file working on Gen2 but not on Live plus.

So I used a media info program (mediainfo) to get some information about the file so their engineers can look into it, I guess we may get somewhere here. They cannot say I have wired anything wrong, because I simply placed the WDTV live plus where the WDTV Gen2 used to be, also, Dolby Digital works, so there are no connection issues there.

John.
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post #49 of 50 Old 08-07-2012, 11:38 AM
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So I just spent an hour of my life reading through all your posts on this issue, and you left me hanging!

Did you ever get an informative response from customer support at WD?

I have the exact same problem you described, and I've seen it also referenced on other boards. My guess is that when WD went from the Gen 2 to the WDTV Live Plus, they were unable to secure whatever licensing rights they needed to send 5.1 data over the HDMI cable, and just abandoned it, including the menu option which now always erroneously reads "TV not supported" even though it's a meaningless message.

I did see a short post where someone was able to roll back their firmware on the Live Plus and got the HDMI working again, but that's about it. Everyone else just kinds of wanders around asking without any decent response.
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post #50 of 50 Old 08-07-2012, 02:26 PM
 
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Unfortunately, johncccccc's last post was the one above, which was posted almost a year ago. So, I wouldn't expect a response to your question.

If johncccccc returns, your best method might be to send him a PM (once you have enough appends) so he would see that on the off-chance he logs back in.
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