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post #181 of 209 Old 04-18-2014, 07:55 AM
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Joe, thanks for your help.
I didnt know the major problem it will be dhcp. So if i use any 5x1 switch at any matrix input, should work? I will have any edid problem or dhcp?
I got a quote to buy a SnapAV binary 4x4 matrix with 4 receivers ...$3200. I liked the ip control and compatibility with my control4 system. But i also dont know how it will be to use a hdmi switch over it. so i can increase my number of inputs.

My major problem now is my ps4 and ps3 that cant work with my crappy monoprice matrix. It seems that my problem is my receivers ( marantz nr1604, 8801 and a denon 3313)
When i connect directly at my TV from monoprice matrix. Everything works fine. But when the signal needs to pass over the receivers... i dont have image, blank issues, blinking , handshake problems, etc...

How does hdbaset matrix works at this scenario?
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post #182 of 209 Old 04-18-2014, 11:33 AM
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‘So if i use any 5x1 switch at any matrix input, should work?’ – I’m not promising that wink.gif, we can make it work but within limits of which Switch/Matrix work together.

IP control (we have – basic at present), Control4 – we have an RS232 port so not a problem to get our kit to work with any control system.

‘How does hdbaset matrix works at this scenario?’ – again it’s not HDBaseT alone which will dictate how your system handles working via AVR’s and multiple layers of kit.

We work hard on how we handle and cope with EDID and HDCP to try and ensure your system is stable – USB is a life saver in terms of being able to quickly upload firmware to the Matrix as and when you hit a problem.

Joe

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post #183 of 209 Old 04-23-2014, 08:43 PM
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Is there a complete list of devices that implement the HDBase-T standard? I see the first two posts have a few devices, but that was a few years ago. Perhaps having a master list would help with research when buying.
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post #184 of 209 Old 04-23-2014, 09:24 PM
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There are hundreds, if not thousands of products out there that are now using HDBT. The real issue is not with HDBT, but with the implementation of the backbone of the system which drives it. Some have poor power supplies, some implement power on one end for the units, the matrices are ALL over the place with almost zero reviews out there.

I think the extenders are all pretty solid, but I would love to see some solid reviews of the different matrices out there as they really carry a hefty price tag and don't seem to have any really solid reviews and feature sets written up about them, even from major manufacturers such as AMX, Extron, and Crestron.

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post #185 of 209 Old 04-24-2014, 05:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AV_Integrated View Post

There are hundreds, if not thousands of products out there that are now using HDBT. The real issue is not with HDBT, but with the implementation of the backbone of the system which drives it. Some have poor power supplies, some implement power on one end for the units, the matrices are ALL over the place with almost zero reviews out there.

I think the extenders are all pretty solid, but I would love to see some solid reviews of the different matrices out there as they really carry a hefty price tag and don't seem to have any really solid reviews and feature sets written up about them, even from major manufacturers such as AMX, Extron, and Crestron.

No reviews is the biggest problem. That's the problem I am getting into now trying to research these things before I buy.
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post #186 of 209 Old 05-07-2014, 06:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockstar0215 View Post

No reviews is the biggest problem. That's the problem I am getting into now trying to research these things before I buy.


MY Review of Monoprice 4 by 4 HDBaseT Matrix

Pros: Excellent performance as a 4x4 HDBaseT Matrix switch.
Very good proactive Support from Monoprice Techs.
Meets all my requirements for the matrix


Cons: Proper use of the IR transmitters can be a bit confusing. This is a possible user shortfall and not a problem/defect with the switch.

Let me begin by noting that my installation is quite complex. My four sources include:
1. A Motorola based Comcast HD Set Top Box
2. An HDMI Output from a Denon AVR-3312CI, which has first been relayed through a Monoprice 1X4 w Cat5 out Splitter. This run brings the Denon output to my Node Zero Utility Room where the switch is located. Denon's attached sources include a Sony BluRay player, Sony 995 400 disc DVD changer, Vintage Pioneer laser Disc player and a Mitsubishi VCR. Too, the Denon's sources include the HDMI output from an Onkyo NR 626, the output of which, has been fed to the Denon though a Monoprice 2X4 Switch from another room.
3. A Samsung Ipolis Surveillance DVR output is connected after having its VGA output Scaled to 1080P
4. Finally an Apple TV device is connected to the fourth port.
All of this works flawlessly with excellent sparkle free 1080P performance at my four sink locations.
A word about my run lengths is in order here, I happen to own a Time Domain Reflectometer(TDR) with which I was able measure the lengths of each of my Cat5e cable runs. These turned out to be between 90 to 130 feet. And my in house cable plant is wired with 568A throughout. Note that all manufacturers of HDBaseT recommend 568B cable plants and that it is claimed that there is a length penalty for using 568A. It's therefore good to have an idea of your distances and wiring format.
Now regarding IR, I had some initial difficulties which turned out to be due to my lack of understanding of just how the IR TX/RX's worked. After some false starts and some further understanding, I am happy to report that all my sources are being suitably IR controlled.
Let me point out that three of my sources are Network devices(Denon AVR-3312, Onkyo 626 and AppleTV) As such, these devices can be controlled by Ipad/Iphone Apps, in addition to IR.
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post #187 of 209 Old 05-07-2014, 07:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by john stephens View Post

...all manufacturers of HDBaseT recommend 568B cable plants...
No, I have seen some that specify 568A. And I have it direct from Valens that it doesn't matter either way. Manufacturers specify 568A or 568B so the average consumer actually has a chance of making the gear work. There are other ways of terminating the cables that will work as well. Both ends of the cable just have to be terminated the same way and each TMDS pair needs to use a single pair in the cable.
Quote:
...it is claimed that there is a length penalty for using 568A.
I have never seen that claim, but regardless, it is no more true for HDBaseT than for 10GBaseT Ethernet with which it shares a lot of technology.
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post #188 of 209 Old 05-08-2014, 04:51 AM
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Hi Colm,

I am not trying to drive that claim. My point here is that my own installation is 568A based and it DOES work. As to the distance penalty, I have seen it made many times with explanations based on the twist rate differences of the O/OW pair compared to the G/GW pair. Indeed I have seen references to as much as 30% penalty. But, again, my point here is that the proof is in the pudding, If your plant works, it works. Mine works perfectly with 568A.
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post #189 of 209 Old 05-08-2014, 08:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by john stephens View Post

...I have seen it made many times with explanations based on the twist rate differences of the O/OW pair compared to the G/GW pair. Indeed I have seen references to as much as 30% penalty.
Yeah, if it is on the internet, it must be true, right? You need to vet your sources so you don't pass on BS like that. Are you sure they were referring to at 30% difference between types of cable?
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post #190 of 209 Old 05-08-2014, 10:02 AM
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Look, I am not pining for a huge debate on this. Indeed, I have heard it even from Crestron. In writing. It's also in the Monoprice docs on their matrix. Now, you tell me one matrix manufacture that claims to reach 330ft using 568A based wiring. And we are both on the internet; making claims at that.
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post #191 of 209 Old 05-08-2014, 06:51 PM
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Here is what the HDBaseT Alliance has to say about the matter.

Would you please post a link to the text that says T568A will give you 30% less distance for HDBaseT than T568A. I would like to read it for myself.

Your use of monoprice as a reference made me laugh...
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post #192 of 209 Old 05-09-2014, 07:41 AM
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I've searched and looked at diagrams but if you want to watch different TV shows you would have to have multiple DVR's, connected to the main HDBaseT,correct? Thanks
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post #193 of 209 Old 05-09-2014, 12:35 PM
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I don't see what this has to do with HDBaseT. Maybe another forum? Or at least more information?
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post #194 of 209 Old 05-11-2014, 02:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colm View Post

Here is what the HDBaseT Alliance has to say about the matter.

Would you please post a link to the text that says T568A will give you 30% less distance for HDBaseT than T568A. I would like to read it for myself.

Your use of monoprice as a reference made me laugh...

No reason for insults here. Indeed, as I pointed out, I didn't intend to start a debate. But you still did not list a matrix manufacturer which claimed to reach the 330' using 568 A. And your quote from the Alliance was omitted from your reply.
Now there are plausible technical reasons why a particular cat5,cat6X pair might be specified for this application. First, unlike Ethernet, HDBaseT is a dramatically asymmetric technology. Means that the data rates from source to sink are many times faster than those from sink to source. With your boastfulness, I am sure you know that this implies much higher signal to noise requirements in the forward direction than in the reverse. Too, you will know, hopefully that the pair twist rate is the main weapon theses pairs have against noise. That the green pair has a 16% greater twist rate than the orange pair. hence data transmitted on the green pair would be expected to have less externally induced noise. hence higher signal to noise ratio. Any engineer worth his salt would not fail know these simple facts.
As for Valens, surely they would do everything possible to make sure that various vendors were not using arbitrary p airs to transmit their forward data signals. Indeed, that's the main reason for standards on HDBaseT. BTW, how much Digital Signal Process Theory do you know?
Finally,, an admonition for potential consumers; the matrices are expensive and can't be casually deployed with arbitrary cable installs. The most likely weak link is the set of generally unknown cables behind the walls of our homes. It's prudent to find out as much as possible about that infrastructure, to include cable type, punch down, type, cable length and even cable bundling. All of this, because noise mitigation is absolutely necessary to transmit these multi Gbit/sec signals reliably.
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post #195 of 209 Old 05-19-2014, 08:16 AM
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Here is a bit of information theory to better explain why/how two similar twisted pairs might differ dramatically. Back in 1949, C. E. Shannon derived a fundamental theory to express the maximum rate of digital data transmission through a medium of bandwidth B. Thus:

Maximum bits/sec = bandwidth*Log2(1 +S/N) where S is the signal level and N is the externally induced noise.
Shannon showed clearly that no matte how clever you encode your data, you can never exceed this performance. Too, that if you increase bit rate throughput by, say, M-mary encoding, you do so at the expense of increased signal to noise requirements.
If we apply this theory to our two twisted pairs which are similar in all respects except each has different susceptibility to induced noise, we can write for each pair:

C/B = Log2(1 + S1/N1) and

C/B = Log2(1 + S2/N2) , where we are injecting identical data streams into each of these two pairs.

It follows from these two equations that

1 + S1/N1 =1 + S2/N2 or S1/S2 = N1/N2

We all know that the Signals decrease exponentially with distance through the cable, with S1 = S0 Exp(-a(f)*L1 etc. and similarly for pair 2

We seek the transmission length advantage, (L1 - L2) that pair 1 has over pair 2. Evidently:

Exp(a*(L2 - L1)) = N1/N2, which, upon taking the natural log of both sides, yields

a*(L2 - L1) = Ln(N1/N2), where, by way of reminder, N1 and N2 are the generally different levels of induced noise.

With all this, the statement that there is a possible 30% penalty for transmitting on the orange pair instead of the green pair, amounts to, L2 = 0.7*L1, so that

0.3a*L1 =Ln(N2/N1)

And all of this is quite rigorous and all that's required here is to input a reasonable value for the cable attenuation at 100 MHz to calculate the ratio of induced noise.

So the claim of such a difference is not as far fetched as it might seem to some folks.
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post #196 of 209 Old 05-24-2014, 07:07 AM
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Hey guys,

 

Thanks for all of the information.  I am sort of stuck at a crossroads as what to do.  I have a run from my closet that is nearing 50 cable feet to my AVR and cannot decide which way to go.  (as crow flies, it is like 10', but up 12, down 12, plus device loops...grr)

 

I have 2" conduits, so that isn't the issue, but I am going to want to get up in my attic once.

 

I cannot decide whether I should buy a "decent" large monoprice HDMI, a blue jeans HDMI (more pricey), or a bunch of redmere HDMIs (and run 1 spare each way, I'm terrified of active failures...).  I hate to spend an extra 200-400 bucks on a HDBaseT solution if I don't have to.

 

Either way I will be running (4) cat 6 as well just in case, and the builder already has 2 cat5e.

 

I read earlier on that if it is 50-75', just run a solid HDMI.  I think that is true for most cases unless it is to a notoriously finnicky projector or something...is that your experience?  And then of course, what is "solid?"

 

I was also toying with inserting a matrix switcher in the closet and putting as much stuff in there as possible.  But I was thinking it may be best to use my main receiver for that and not have another device in the chain causing EDID issues, etc.  The picture below shows sort of the "ideal" scenario", whereas I am mostly considering putting the BluRay and Game in the family room.  So really I may only need one HDMI each way..but if I run redmere, I would run spare each way.  

 

I plan on getting a Denon X4000 and using the zone 2 for whole house audio and Zone 3 for Master Bedroom.  Any help is appreciated.  AVS Forum is awesome!

 

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post #197 of 209 Old 05-24-2014, 04:24 PM
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All of this is so subjective and depends mainly on your own desires. I will, nonetheless, stat how I might organize this if I had the neat Denon AVR4000. First I'd take my main cherry picked HDMI sources(befitting) and mount them in the Family Room(Media Room) with the Denon. I'd run the Zone 2 output from the Denon to the closet for distribution for use at future locations around the home. For that run, I might explore the use of a 40-50- HDMI cable to save bucks. Before installing this cable, though, I would test it to see if it transmits my most demanding HD signal. Think 1080P or more and 3D etc. If this works, I would use that. This gets your Denon Audio and video out to the closet. In the closet I would use 4 by 4 HDBaseT Matrix for further distribution throughout. The Denon zone 2 output, of course, would be one of the sources. Pick three more sources for the switch and you are set to go. I am assuming, here that your whole house audio receiver will also be located in this closet. If the option is available, I would use Cat6 cables with the switch; else cat5e. This is just a sketch to get you started.
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post #198 of 209 Old 05-27-2014, 04:45 PM
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I'm just wondering whether there are others here that have a 4 by 4 or more, HDBaset matrix installed? If so, what brands and how would you rate your particular solution? Based on my review of the thread it's not clear to me how many actual users there are here.
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post #199 of 209 Old 05-28-2014, 01:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by john stephens View Post

I'm just wondering whether there are others here that have a 4 by 4 or more, HDBaset matrix installed? If so, what brands and how would you rate your particular solution? Based on my review of the thread it's not clear to me how many actual users there are here.
Installed? Not yet. I think most people get up to about a 4x4 setup and then disappear.

I've got the equipment for a 16x16 setup and will be using some of it to start off with. Actually, all my outputs are HDMI at this point, but the inputs are mostly HDBT. I will switch out cards as necessary. Since it is Crestron DM, I have all the flexibility in the world.

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post #200 of 209 Old 05-30-2014, 07:11 PM
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Installed? Not yet. I think most people get up to about a 4x4 setup and then disappear.

I've got the equipment for a 16x16 setup and will be using some of it to start off with. Actually, all my outputs are HDMI at this point, but the inputs are mostly HDBT. I will switch out cards as necessary. Since it is Crestron DM, I have all the flexibility in the world.

Yes! I am familiar with the DM box, outstanding stuff. Pricey, though. As I recall, that's the one where you can purchase a variety of input card types, with or without HDBT. But I thought the output slots were all HDBT. No?
Do you intend to use Crestron cables or to use it with your own pre installed?
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post #201 of 209 Old 06-01-2014, 06:17 PM
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Quote:
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Yes! I am familiar with the DM box, outstanding stuff. Pricey, though. As I recall, that's the one where you can purchase a variety of input card types, with or without HDBT. But I thought the output slots were all HDBT. No?
Do you intend to use Crestron cables or to use it with your own pre installed?
I have my own HDMI cables and HDMI extenders that I intend to use with it. I actually have HDMI cables throughout my home which have all been tested up to 75' in length without issue, but I do have cat cabling at those locations as well... You know, just in case.

Crestron DM has a variety of input cards which are available. Those cards are purchased by the input type. They have DM in copper and fiber versions as well as HDMI, component, DVI, and composite inputs, so you can mix things up. I think they also just added some streaming options as well (I haven't looked to closely at that yet, it may just be an output type). For outputs they have DM over copper and fiber (20 miles to your display? No problem!) as well as HDMI outputs. Their outputs are sold as 4 or 8 output cards, with matching pairs depending on the switcher. So, if you have a switcher that uses the 4 output card, then it could be 2 HDMI outputs and 2 DM copper outputs, but it can't be 3 DM copper outputs and 1 HDMI output. Actually, that's not quite true since their DM outputs have a mirrored HDMI output, but we'll call that a close enough example.

I got some very good pricing on everything, so my 16x16 was put together for under $4,000. I'm still going through and testing everything though. My DM input cards are all DSP models so I get analog stereo out of all my HDMI sources to feed my audio distribution system. It's going to be really nice when completed and has a fair bit of room for growth since I only have five TVs setup in the house right now. Plans are for around six or seven more TVs when I finish the basement... crazy fun stuff. But, I have almost a dozen video sources I already have to deal with, so the 16 inputs may still not be enough to make me happy. Meh, no more room in my rack! This is why HDBT needs to add ARC to the design.

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post #202 of 209 Old 06-02-2014, 01:14 PM
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I just bought this unit from Monoprice: PID #10224

http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=109&cp_id=10914&cs_id=1091401&p_id=10224&seq=1&format=2

I tested it with the shielded CAT6 I planned to run though the wall and it worked during my quick test. After I finished cutting a half dozen holes in the wall to run the wire from the TV mounting location to the basement I tested again to make sure the wire wasn't picking up any interference. Again, it worked fine with limited testing.

I proceeded to patch all the holes, then hooked it up again, and it lost link after a few minutes. Unplugging the receiver and plugging it back in restored the link, but that will be pretty much impossible to do once the TV is mounted. I was concerned, so I wanted to see if I could figure out if it could be caused by any type of interference. I left it plugged in to see if the link loss coincided with anything in the house. (Light switch, furnace coming on, etc)

The link held solid for 24 hours. I plugged in a source and a tv to play with it before mounting the TV permanently, and there was no picture. Reset the unit, still no picture. Swapped HDMI cables, no picture. Brought the extender unit up from the basement and connected the units together with a 6 foot CAT6 cable, no picture.

I tried everything I could think of, and despite showing a link and even HDCP connections, I couldn't get a picture. The network and IR functions seemed to work, so it was only the HDMI function that stopped working. I'm returning it and trying something else... Unfortunately this delays mounting my tv... I would suggest avoiding this particular device.

I had this problem multiple times with the 8122 and the 10225 recently. My first 8122 lasted 10 months before failing and that was the longest time with zero failure, the 10225 didn't even work out of the box. As far as these types of monoprice extenders, I am done buying them. I just ordered an Atlona HDBaseT extender to see if this will work and it seems this unit AT-HD4S140SR is a quality product and has adjustments to help the user get the full benefit of the device. Also monoprice 'tech support' is about as useful as a screen door on a submarine. Lesson learned for me and I am not cheaping out on these devices again.

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post #203 of 209 Old 06-04-2014, 07:45 PM
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Being that you are a Crestron guy, I am sure you can attest to the fact that they recommend and specify only 568B cabling for use with their HDBT boxes. Indeed, as I recall, their DM 8G cable is wired 568B and is robustly shielded Cat6x, Too, in many installs, the cabling is direct, with no punch down blocks or keystone jacks to present impedance mismatch reflections. Just TX to RX direct. Is that your experience?
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post #204 of 209 Old 06-04-2014, 10:37 PM
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I had this problem multiple times with the 8122 and the 10225 recently. My first 8122 lasted 10 months before failing and that was the longest time with zero failure, the 10225 didn't even work out of the box. As far as these types of monoprice extenders, I am done buying them. I just ordered an Atlona HDBaseT extender to see if this will work and it seems this unit AT-HD4S140SR is a quality product and has adjustments to help the user get the full benefit of the device. Also monoprice 'tech support' is about as useful as a screen door on a submarine. Lesson learned for me and I am not cheaping out on these devices again.

Just out of curiosity, I wonder if you terminated the shielded cat6 cables yourselves? Too, I wonder about the thermal environment behind the wall? Be advised, it is very difficult for an untrained professional installer to properly terminate a shielded cat 6 cable in the field. If there is a ground loop problem, you can get performance worse than unshielded cat5e. Just some thoughts.
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post #205 of 209 Old 06-05-2014, 05:15 AM
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Just out of curiosity, I wonder if you terminated the shielded cat6 cables yourselves? Too, I wonder about the thermal environment behind the wall? Be advised, it is very difficult for an untrained professional installer to properly terminate a shielded cat 6 cable in the field. If there is a ground loop problem, you can get performance worse than unshielded cat5e. Just some thoughts.

I asked my installer this a few years ago because they are the ones that ran the two runs of Cat5e wire. This problem has persisted since I have been using extenders, first it was the regular balun type (no picture, snow bad picture), then I upgraded to the monoprice 8122 which worked for about 10 months before going out. I have had about 6 units of the 8122 and one 10225 unit. The wire is installed in my basement ceiling which never gets over 73 degree F. I did noticed the 8122 receiver part get really warm at times, I usually unplugged it after watching a movie. But as the problem persisted the common denominator was these types of extenders. I will be getting my Atlona type extender tomorrow and I guess I will see what is up. At worse if it is a Cat wire issue I guess I will have to get it reinstalled with better wire. I know stuff happens with electronics but I really doubt it is the wire since I had a long period of zero performance issues.

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post #206 of 209 Old 06-05-2014, 10:01 PM
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Being that you are a Crestron guy, I am sure you can attest to the fact that they recommend and specify only 568B cabling for use with their HDBT boxes. Indeed, as I recall, their DM 8G cable is wired 568B and is robustly shielded Cat6x, Too, in many installs, the cabling is direct, with no punch down blocks or keystone jacks to present impedance mismatch reflections. Just TX to RX direct. Is that your experience?
We have run into a number of issues over the years with all HDBT solutions, including Crestron. We now have found that Crestron basically bankrolled Valens (HDBT manufacturer) for the first few years which is why Crestron is now about 7 generations deep on their solutions, while others are just playing catch up with them.

We do terminate HDBT, we have a Fluke $10,000 LAN tester which we use to verify cabling. We are now on our fourth or fifth iteration of cabling, and it's a good Cat-6 STP cable, with good ends which match and our technicians have become fairly proficient at terminations, but there is no doubt that never moving those cables after they are terminated really helps their long term reliability.

My more personal experience is that a connection which tests through fine has absolutely zero bearing on whether it will work with HDBT. I have simply reterminated cat-5e cables and they work perfectly, when two minutes before they couldn't push a signal through them at all. So, I've learned to keep bends in the cable to a minimum (sharp bends) and to put a nice solid connection in place.

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post #207 of 209 Old 06-06-2014, 09:13 AM
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BornslippyZ, I am intrigued by your problem since I have several of those same HDBT extenders which so far have worked perfectly. This leads m e to want to know more about your installation. For example, how long are your cat6 runs? Are you transmitting signals above 1080P? Are your cables shielded or UTP? Based on my experience, if there are infrastructure issues, all the money in the world will not solve your problems. Bounce back and there may be suggestions.
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post #208 of 209 Old 06-06-2014, 09:25 AM
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We have run into a number of issues over the years with all HDBT solutions, including Crestron. We now have found that Crestron basically bankrolled Valens (HDBT manufacturer) for the first few years which is why Crestron is now about 7 generations deep on their solutions, while others are just playing catch up with them.

We do terminate HDBT, we have a Fluke $10,000 LAN tester which we use to verify cabling. We are now on our fourth or fifth iteration of cabling, and it's a good Cat-6 STP cable, with good ends which match and our technicians have become fairly proficient at terminations, but there is no doubt that never moving those cables after they are terminated really helps their long term reliability.

My more personal experience is that a connection which tests through fine has absolutely zero bearing on whether it will work with HDBT. I have simply reterminated cat-5e cables and they work perfectly, when two minutes before they couldn't push a signal through them at all. So, I've learned to keep bends in the cable to a minimum (sharp bends) and to put a nice solid connection in place.

MY comments about difficulties in terminating shielded cables was not directed at professional installers. I do note in retrospect that my wording was somewhat garbled. I apologize for that snafu. My comments in that earlier post was directed at dyers who might try to do that termination.
Yes, I agree with you on all points wrt cable issues. I might diverge slightly on how much the HDBT boxes, themselves, are involved in many of these problems.
The situation is this: 10GB/sec is a lot of data to cram into these cables and transmit 330'. Everything has to be done right or there will be shortfalls, dropouts etc. The work starts in making sure your cables are fine as they lay. Then, as you say, don't disturb things.
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post #209 of 209 Old 06-06-2014, 04:02 PM
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BornslippyZ, I am intrigued by your problem since I have several of those same HDBT extenders which so far have worked perfectly. This leads m e to want to know more about your installation. For example, how long are your cat6 runs? Are you transmitting signals above 1080P? Are your cables shielded or UTP? Based on my experience, if there are infrastructure issues, all the money in the world will not solve your problems. Bounce back and there may be suggestions.

Thankfully the new Atlona HDBT extenders worked! I had to put it into the EDID learning mode but after that and putting my AVR into the automatic HDMI mode, the picture came on! I haven't watched a full movie yet but I will tonight!

I have two cat5e runs at 35-40 foot lengths and they are shielded. Funny thing was the 10225 from monoprice didn't even work when I just plugged my ps4 to the extender rather than running it through the avr. The techs were telling me that the blinking lights on the boxes meant that is was working. I don't really know what was up and it could be a wiring problem down the road, but these extenders are usually the culprit. When I upgrade my whole room, I will rip the dry wall all out and run a conduit so I can run wires whenever I need to. Plus I will get my local HT company to test the connections if I ever install my own cables. For now my friday is going good now.

Thanks for the help on this forum!

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