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post #1 of 14 Old 03-19-2012, 01:11 PM - Thread Starter
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I should have sought help here weeks ago, but didn't think about it until now.

I have a 24g HDMI Blue Jeans cable running 40 feet from components to projector. My AVP has two DVI inputs and one out (Outlaw 990). I asked the Outlaw folks if I might have a problem with such a long run, and they said yes, perhaps I should go directly from media player (Oppo 95) to PJ?

The direct connection works fine, but I would like to use the switching in the AVP because I want to use the HDMI-1 input on the PJ for both video sources (cable box and media player).

When I first connected both sources through the DVI inputs (via mechanical adapters), the cable box signal made it to the PJ fine, but the media player could not maintain the connection. I concluded that I needed more signal strength for the media player, and bought the Monoprice splitter/amplifier.

Here's the curious part of my story: When I first inserted the splitter/amp before the long cable run, it seemed to fix my problem. However when I tried again the next day, I would get a quick look at the player's splash screen before the picture went dark. I guessed that even more signal strength was needed and installed a second Monoprice splitter/amp at the PJ end of the cable run. Again it worked initially, but not the next day! This makes no sense to me, but many it will to someone else.

For now I have ordered a different HDMI booster/extender and will try it instead of the Monoprice splitter/amps. I probably bought the wrong gizmo for boosting the signal, as I don't need the splitter function.

My audio switching is done using optical connections, so the DVI/HDMI is just for video. I have no interest in 3D if anyone wonders.

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post #2 of 14 Old 03-19-2012, 03:25 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sodbuster View Post

I should have sought help here weeks ago, but didn't think about it until now.

I have a 24g HDMI Blue Jeans cable running 40 feet from components to projector. My AVP has two DVI inputs and one out (Outlaw 990). I asked the Outlaw folks if I might have a problem with such a long run, and they said yes, perhaps I should go directly from media player (Oppo 95) to PJ?

The direct connection works fine, but I would like to use the switching in the AVP because I want to use the HDMI-1 input on the PJ for both video sources (cable box and media player).

When I first connected both sources through the DVI inputs (via mechanical adapters), the cable box signal made it to the PJ fine, but the media player could not maintain the connection. I concluded that I needed more signal strength for the media player, and bought the Monoprice splitter/amplifier.

Here's the curious part of my story: When I first inserted the splitter/amp before the long cable run, it seemed to fix my problem. However when I tried again the next day, I would get a quick look at the player's splash screen before the picture went dark. I guessed that even more signal strength was needed and installed a second Monoprice splitter/amp at the PJ end of the cable run. Again it worked initially, but not the next day! This makes no sense to me, but many it will to someone else.

For now I have ordered a different HDMI booster/extender and will try it instead of the Monoprice splitter/amps. I probably bought the wrong gizmo for boosting the signal, as I don't need the splitter function.

My audio switching is done using optical connections, so the DVI/HDMI is just for video. I have no interest in 3D if anyone wonders.

You can order all of the HDMI boosters that are made and they won't help you. An extender that converts to/from Cat 6 will help as will a properly designed active HDMI cable.

Try making sure both components (OPPO and cable) are outputting at 1080i (not 1080p) and that the Outlaw is set to passthrough the video untouched. In other words make sure the Outlaw doesn't try to change the video to 1080p.

What is probably happening is that you are exceeding the bandwidth that the 40' BJ cable can handle. Going to 1080i will lower the bandwidth and that will be a big clue as to what is happening. Also remove all of your amplifiers. This isn't analog audio, it's a digital signal where you are just making things worse with the amplifiers. A cable equalizer when tuned to the cable you have will improved things, as well.

Finally, many of us can send 1080p over HDMI at greater than 50'. However, that's straight HDMI. I'm not sure what effect an older DVI output (and possibly the DVI --> HDMI converter) does to cable length. I'd bet there is no cable equalization provided by the DVI output.

For many people who have expensive AVRs/AVPs that don't "do" HDMI, the solution has been to get a matrix switcher instead. Use your universal remote to change the inputs along with the receiver inputs.
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post #3 of 14 Old 03-19-2012, 03:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Andy-

Thanks for explaining the realities to me. I would use my remote to switch inputs on the projector, but it has seven inputs and the remote merely cycles through them. Panasonic tells me there are no discrete IR codes to select an input.

So just what is the "amp" part of the Monoprice device doing?

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post #4 of 14 Old 03-19-2012, 04:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Sodbuster View Post

Andy-

Thanks for explaining the realities to me. I would use my remote to switch inputs on the projector, but it has seven inputs and the remote merely cycles through them. Panasonic tells me there are no discrete IR codes to select an input.

So just what is the "amp" part of the Monoprice device doing?

Oops, I realize you are referring to switching a matrix switcher when you say select the input via my universal remote.

You are right on about 1080i vs1080p. The cable box outputing i and the Oppo was set to 1080p....changed that and removed the Monoptice gizmos and now the DVI switching in theAVP works as it should.

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post #5 of 14 Old 03-19-2012, 08:44 PM
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Couple of thoughts!

AVP - it may be its only rated for 1080i not 1080p! You may get better results by bypassing it and use an external Switch that's rated for 1080p!

Projector - being DVI its unlikely to be HDMI 1.3 or 1.4 so relies on the Source (and Cable) to be on voltage in terms of the HDMI signal level!

Projector - whilst you may lack discrete IR codes you may find you can set the unit to 'skip' unused Inputs and reduce your 'toggles' to just the two DVI ports, have a look in the setup menu!

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post #6 of 14 Old 03-19-2012, 09:21 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sodbuster View Post

Oops, I realize you are referring to switching a matrix switcher when you say select the input via my universal remote.

You are right on about 1080i vs1080p. The cable box outputing i and the Oppo was set to 1080p....changed that and removed the Monoptice gizmos and now the DVI switching in theAVP works as it should.

If I were you, I'd just leave it at 1080i for a few days and see if you notice a difference (you can always hook the OPPO up directly for a comparison). Most people do not notice *unless* you tell them it's 1080i. Then they can "see" all sorts of things.

As Joe said, you may find you're not compatible on the DVI port with a true 1080p signal. Most cable boxes are 1080i/720p, so that won't matter. The OPPO you can try it at 1080i and see how much you like that. If not, we can do some more testing that would involve moving the Outlaw closer to the projector (temporarily) and seeing if 1080p works through the Outlaw with shorter cables.
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post #7 of 14 Old 03-19-2012, 10:38 PM - Thread Starter
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If I were you, I'd just leave it at 1080i for a few days and see if you notice a difference (you can always hook the OPPO up directly for a comparison). Most people do not notice *unless* you tell them it's 1080i. Then they can "see" all sorts of things.

As Joe said, you may find you're not compatible on the DVI port with a true 1080p signal. Most cable boxes are 1080i/720p, so that won't matter. The OPPO you can try it at 1080i and see how much you like that. If not, we can do some more testing that would involve moving the Outlaw closer to the projector (temporarily) and seeing if 1080p works through the Outlaw with shorter cables.

I'll do that. I've always thought that 720p was quite wonderful and I should be delighted with 1080i...but now that the player and projector can do 1080p I want it!

If it comes to.it, I will use component connections for the cable box (as I've been doing for a decade) and run the Oppo via the HDMI cable directly to the projector for 1080p. It would be very nice if the unused inputs onthe projector could be disabled.

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post #8 of 14 Old 03-20-2012, 12:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Where I am to date:

Blue jeans HDMI cable works to send 1080p to projector (40foot cable) if connected directly to Oppo 95 media player.

Connecting through the DVI switching on the Outlaw 990 (with HDMI connector adapters) works only with 1080i.

Blue Jeans says their cable isn't the problem.

Outlaw says the 990 has the bandwidth to handle 1080p.

"Extenders" from two different sources didn't help.

I learn here that using a matrix HDMI switch is the way to go and I will probably give that a try. In the meantime I am using component from the cable box, and HDMI 1080i for the Oppo 95....steep learning curve for me, but the helpful folks here on the forum will see me through to success! I still don't know where the bottleneck is.

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post #9 of 14 Old 03-20-2012, 12:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sodbuster View Post

Where I am to date:

Blue jeans HDMI cable works to send 1080p to projector (40foot cable) if connected directly to Oppo 95 media player.

Connecting through the DVI switching on the Outlaw 990 (with HDMI connector adapters) works only with 1080i.

Blue Jeans says their cable isn't the problem.

Outlaw says the 990 has the bandwidth to handle 1080p.

"Extenders" from two different sources didn't help.

I learn here that using a matrix HDMI switch is the way to go and I will probably give that a try. In the meantime I am using component from the cable box, and HDMI 1080i for the Oppo 95....steep learning curve for me, but the helpful folks here on the forum will see me through to success! I still don't know where the bottleneck is.

Correction: Using 1080p for Oppo with direct connection.

Bill Bunker
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post #10 of 14 Old 03-20-2012, 01:33 PM
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Is the Oppo trying to send 1080p60 or 1080p24 - whilst 24P is less bandwidth the AVP may not handle 24p and is 'limited' to 1080p60!

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post #11 of 14 Old 03-20-2012, 01:36 PM
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Also ensure you are powering Off (at the wall) all units when you are making HDMI connectivity changes - Hot Swapping (even in Standby) is not a great idea with HDMI; it can cause mechanical and logic problems.

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post #12 of 14 Old 03-20-2012, 02:50 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Fernand View Post

Is the Oppo trying to send 1080p60 or 1080p24 - whilst 24P is less bandwidth the AVP may not handle 24p and is 'limited' to 1080p60!

Joe

Good catch, Joe! Although the OPPO shouldn't allow a non-compatible source to get 24p, I think there is an override in the OPPO menu system.

Sod, the Outlaw 990 is a 2005 product (a good product, but still 7 years old). It came out just as manufacturers were transitioning from DVI to HDMI. So, you have a fairly old DVI spec that you're dealing with. The handshaking in those days wasn't particularly consistent.

I'm sticking with my advise to bypass the Outlaw entirely for HDMI and just use an HDMI matrix switcher, if the OPPO wasn't sending out 1080p/24.
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post #13 of 14 Old 03-28-2012, 06:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by alk3997 View Post


Good catch, Joe! Although the OPPO shouldn't allow a non-compatible source to get 24p, I think there is an override in the OPPO menu system.

Sod, the Outlaw 990 is a 2005 product (a good product, but still 7 years old). It came out just as manufacturers were transitioning from DVI to HDMI. So, you have a fairly old DVI spec that you're dealing with. The handshaking in those days wasn't particularly consistent.

I'm sticking with my advise to bypass the Outlaw entirely for HDMI and just use an HDMI matrix switcher, if the OPPO wasn't sending out 1080p/24.

I have taken your advice and installed a switch for my three HDMI sources, controlled with IR via Roomie....works like a charm.

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post #14 of 14 Old 03-29-2012, 05:13 AM
 
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I have taken your advice and installed a switch for my three HDMI sources, controlled with IR via Roomie....works like a charm.

Glad to hear your got a good working system now. Enjoy!
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