Issues with Nad 747 and different HDMI sources - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 15 Old 08-21-2012, 02:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Current setup

Nad 747 (philips version) - 10 meter wiretek shielded cable - Optoma HD600X-LV

Before this i was using an Onkyo TX-NR509 + cheap 10 meter HDMI cable. This cable didn't work with the NAD reciever so i swapped it to the wiretek cable - a lot thicker/more shielding.

What works

NAD 747 OSD + upscaling - i can use any of the composite/s-video/component inputs without any issues.
Our cabletv box - works fine every time.

What works 50% of the time

Xbox 360
PS3

These do not always work - swapping to these inputs result in the projector looking for an input forever 50% of the times.

Other display device

I connected the cable to my iiyama pc monitor - this worked every time! Makes me think that it's not the fault of the reciever. I did try the old cheap HDMI cable but this also failed on my iiyama monitor.

Solutions?

HDMI repeater on the 10 meter cable? Maybe the Optoma is very sensitive?

However i'm a bit confused on why this would work with the iiyama and not my projector - the reciever has a build-in upscaler which you can't disable - it always modifies the signal and outputs it - why does it always work with my cablebox then? (i tried swapping cables inputs etc - no go.
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post #2 of 15 Old 08-21-2012, 09:14 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FragZero View Post

Current setup
Nad 747 (philips version) - 10 meter wiretek shielded cable - Optoma HD600X-LV
Before this i was using an Onkyo TX-NR509 + cheap 10 meter HDMI cable. This cable didn't work with the NAD reciever so i swapped it to the wiretek cable - a lot thicker/more shielding.
What works
NAD 747 OSD + upscaling - i can use any of the composite/s-video/component inputs without any issues.
Our cabletv box - works fine every time.
What works 50% of the time
Xbox 360
PS3
These do not always work - swapping to these inputs result in the projector looking for an input forever 50% of the times.
Other display device
I connected the cable to my iiyama pc monitor - this worked every time! Makes me think that it's not the fault of the reciever. I did try the old cheap HDMI cable but this also failed on my iiyama monitor.
Solutions?
HDMI repeater on the 10 meter cable? Maybe the Optoma is very sensitive?
However i'm a bit confused on why this would work with the iiyama and not my projector - the reciever has a build-in upscaler which you can't disable - it always modifies the signal and outputs it - why does it always work with my cablebox then? (i tried swapping cables inputs etc - no go.

First, 10 meters / 32 feet is outside of what is normally a certifyable HDMI High Speed cable. High Speed cables are certified to be able to carry the maximum HDMI bandwidth.

Below that are HDMI Standard Speed cables. Those cables can carry something lower than High Speed. How much lower depends upon the equipment and the environment. Both High Speed and Standard Speed cables have the same pin-outs.

What I suspect is happening in your case is that your cable is right on the fringe of working at the bitrate required for your HDMI signal. The Optoma is not more sensitive. It just happens to have a better match for the cable's characteristics. You'll see a number of boxes (particularly HDMI matrix switchers) that advertise that they have active cable equalization. This is an attempt to more closely match the output of the box to the cable being used.

You really have two choices. Choice one is the lower the bitrate going out through your HDMI cable. That means a lower capability cable will work. One way to do this is to use 1080i/720p, but you already said the NAD automatically converts to 1080p, so that isn't an option. A second way would be to disable "Deep Color" in all of your components. Deep color doesn't provide much (if any) benefit and it eats up bandwidth. Your second choice would be to get a true HDMI High Speed cable. Unfortunately the max I know of is around 25 feet for High Speed. If that isn't long enough, then getting a good quality (good gauge) Standard Speed cable might also solve your problem. That your cable box works over HDMI (lower speed output) says lowering the bitrate on the rest of the devices will also help.

Another possibility is that this is a firmware problem when the NAD tries to read the Optima's EDID. Make sure the NAD and Optima firmware are both update to date.
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post #3 of 15 Old 08-21-2012, 09:47 AM - Thread Starter
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The cable i'm using is a High speed cable from Wiretek - got it from a nearby sony center and they said they use it with sony equippement without any problem. ( 3x as thick as my cheap cable - seems decent shielded).

I think you misunderstood - the iiyama monitor works flawless, it's the optoma which gives issues smile.gif.

After work i got myself a konig HDMI repeater - a powered one. No change in the situation.

And i run the cable box through my reciever - the reciever upscales everything to 1080p 50 or 60 hz. I can't change this - it's the philips model which has less options - but the nad version can't do it either or i'd go 720p (max projector).

I'm just very confused why the cablebox works flawless - upscaled from 720p to 1080p.
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post #4 of 15 Old 08-21-2012, 11:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Some additional testing!

PS3 - 720P or 1080P - works fine without reciever

Xbox 360 - 720P or 1080P - works fine without reciever

Maybe i should get a HDMI switch/splitter? Feed 1 port to my projector and the other to the reciever?
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post #5 of 15 Old 08-21-2012, 11:30 AM
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I think you should do what Andy suggested and turn off DeepColor before trying anything else.
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post #6 of 15 Old 08-21-2012, 11:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colm View Post

I think you should do what Andy suggested and turn off DeepColor before trying anything else.

Checked the PS3

DeepColor wasn't on.

I just tried my own sanyo Z1 with this setup - works flaweless. For some reason the Optoma doesn't want to work frown.gif
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post #7 of 15 Old 08-21-2012, 12:56 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FragZero View Post

Checked the PS3
DeepColor wasn't on.
I just tried my own sanyo Z1 with this setup - works flaweless. For some reason the Optoma doesn't want to work frown.gif

Did you also check the receiver and the Optoma? Both of those can have Deep Color flags, as well. Since the problem seems to be between the NAD and the Optoma, I'd be more concerned about the Optoma to NAD interface than the PS3 to NAD.

Also check that you have the latest firmware in both the receiver and the Optoma.

If you get a switcher as you suggested, then you'll be limited to stereo output for audio unless you get a matrix switcher that can spoof the EDID information (as your receiver does now). HDMI has a number of "features" that attempt to make simple installation easier but make more-complex ones more difficult.

BTW, is this the cable you purchased?
http://wiretek.com.au/1-5m-hdmi-hdmi-cable-with-ethernet-m-m-3.html
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post #8 of 15 Old 08-21-2012, 01:04 PM - Thread Starter
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There is no such setting on the receiver or projector (budget projector and limited receiver).

Do you have any idea why the cable box at 720p works and the ps3 or xbox at the same resolution do not. All 3 being up scaled to 1080p.

And why all of this works fine with 2 different display devices?

And why everything worked fine with an onkyo 509 and a lot worse cable?

Is there a mono price equivalent for Europe?


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post #9 of 15 Old 08-21-2012, 01:30 PM
 
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Yes, but I can only narrow it down to two possibilities - - 1) Data errors due to cable defect or equalization differences when the NAD and Optima are connected. We know that the cable is outside the normal length of a High Speed cable, which makes me think bit errors are possible or 2) firmware in either the Optima or NAD have firmware issues and can't understand each other.

Unfortunately the nature of interface issues is that if you take away one or the other side of the interface and substitute it with something else the interface problem can be solved. It doesn't mean that the one thing that was taken away was the problem - just that the two that worked were compatible. That makes these types of issues difficult to troubleshoot and just takes time to figure out what is going on.

The other thing you can try (which should definitely rule out the cable) is to move you receiver temporarily closer to the projector and use a short (no more than 2m/6') High Speed cable. The shorter cable the better. If that doesn't work with the short cable, then you've ruled-out the long cable and it's probably a firmware issue. If the short cable works, then it's probably your long cable causing the issue. Cable issues are much easier to fix.
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post #10 of 15 Old 08-21-2012, 01:36 PM - Thread Starter
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I will try a shorter cable tomorrow,it's currently in use.

I have a short monster cable which a friend gave me, if that doesn't work it must be a firmware issue. (not that I believe in magic cables but it guarantees a decent cable)

Thanks for the support so far, let's hope I can get this going.

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post #11 of 15 Old 08-21-2012, 02:16 PM
 
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Yes. Only word of caution is that if it doesn't work, Monster doesn't guarantee good performance unfortunately. We had someone here use a Monster cable that wasn't a High Speed cable even though they spent a lot of money for it. However, as the cable gets shorter the less important High Speed versus Standard Speed becomes (even the Standard Speed cables can do full High Speed at short distances)
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post #12 of 15 Old 08-21-2012, 02:44 PM
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I think there should have been "another word of caution".... as we recently "saw" herein that some monster cables are "directional" so if that is the case, make sure that you set up your "test configuration" correctly so that perhaps your results will truly give you the appropriate insight.
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post #13 of 15 Old 08-21-2012, 04:02 PM - Thread Starter
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I just had the possibility to try the projector with a shorter cable. (its an older monster cable, works fine with the cable box - no direction as far as I can tell and less then a meter long)

Exactly the same. :-\

Tomorrow I'll check which video mode the receiver outputs with each source.

I think it's 1080p50 for my cable box. It might be 1080p60 with the other devices.

My housemate was using the projector /receiver just now with his pc and the cheap 10m hdmi cable I have. Worked fine. Can test some resolution and refresh rates.

Although the manual clearly states 1080p 24 50 60 supported!

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post #14 of 15 Old 08-21-2012, 04:25 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FragZero View Post

I just had the possibility to try the projector with a shorter cable. (its an older monster cable, works fine with the cable box - no direction as far as I can tell and less then a meter long)
Exactly the same. :-\
Tomorrow I'll check which video mode the receiver outputs with each source.
I think it's 1080p50 for my cable box. It might be 1080p60 with the other devices.
My housemate was using the projector /receiver just now with his pc and the cheap 10m hdmi cable I have. Worked fine. Can test some resolution and refresh rates.
Although the manual clearly states 1080p 24 50 60 supported!
Sent from my Optimus 2X using Tapatalk 2

Unfortunately at this point, I think the best bet is to talk with NAD and explain the situation. If you haven't already done so, check the AVSForum's Amplifier/Receiver section for the appropriate NAD 747 "owners" thread. There may be others who are having this problem and may have thought of a solution we haven't yet. But, it sure sounds like firmware to me (unfortunately).
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post #15 of 15 Old 08-22-2012, 12:57 AM - Thread Starter
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As far as i can tell these never was a firmware update for the nad 747, i have read the owners thread + i have the philips version which does not make things easier.

I send an email to optoma - maybe there is a firmware update for the projector or they can help me with these issues.

Think i'll start looking at alternatives - maybe an HDfury - this would be an easy but quite expensive fix. Or i could get another scaler which supports HDMI (currently using an iscan HD which only does 720p passthrough).

Edit:

Or maybe a Dr HDMI from HDFury? Seems to fake EDID - maybe it can fix the handshacking issues.
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