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Old 10-23-2012, 04:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Of course I know the issue with Cables and choices... $1 - 9k cables !!! Yes. How far do you want to go, and why, etc.. So intelligently, I don't need ridiculously expensive cables for several reason, mainly being, with a digital signal, I am unsure if there is even such a thing as getting 0's and 1's any better or worse across a cable.... PLUS, my equipment is not the extreme boutiquey audiophile level either.... BUT at the same time I just don't want the cable to be my weakest link in my path, cause as we all know, your path is only as good as your weakest link. And my equipment is of decent standards IMO.

So with that said, I just bought a new 55" Sony XBR950 series TV and a Oppo BDP93 Blu-Ray player. I also have a XBox 360 Slim. What HDMI cable is up to par with that level of equipment/signal path ? Also, I want to make sure to get the latest protocol in the cable, so where is that now ? 1.4 ? 2.0 ? I will need about 4 HDMI cables 6ft in length max.

Thanks in advance -
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Old 10-23-2012, 04:46 PM
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^^^

plain jane high speed cables from monoprice/tartan will be fine...

either the cable works, or it doesn't... so it can't be the "weakest link"... it is either "a working link" or a "broken/non-working link"... there's no in between....l

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Old 10-23-2012, 05:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

^^^

plain jane high speed cables from monoprice/tartan will be fine...

either the cable works, or it doesn't... so it can't be the "weakest link"... it is either "a working link" or a "broken/non-working link"... there's no in between....l

Ahhhh yes, as I figured. This is because it is digital I guess, right ? Because I know for sure analog cables passing analog signal do indeed make differences in quality of sound vs price, etc..

Now, 1 thing I do imagine makes a difference though, is how soon the cable would break, or how well the end connectors are made for a good fit, etc.. And now this I wouldn't want to spend a lot on, but would be willing to spend a touch more to get a well crafted one.

I heard something about BJC HDMI cables are a good middle ground for this. Is this correct ? Or do you feel the absolute cheapest HDMI cable is best ?

Also, but is there any protocol number I should make sure to get ? Or certification ? etc ?? Like 2.0 "High Speed" certified ? Or something like that ? Could you please tell me the newest latest version HDMI is up to now ? Thanks !
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Old 10-23-2012, 05:39 PM - Thread Starter
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What I'm getting at, is I also want to make sure these HDMI cables are future proof. If I buy a 4k TV down the road, will it work properly ? Also want to make sure it complies with absolutely all possible features HDMI offers. This is what I mean by "version" or "protocol" number, etc..
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Old 10-23-2012, 05:56 PM
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The latest version of HDMi is 1.4b released a year ago. I don't see much talk about it though. Ppl still usually refer to 1.4 or 1.4a. By the end of 2012, there is suppose to be HDMI 2.0. If it gets released, it'll likely happen soon, otherwise it'll happen early next year.
You likely will always want a high speed version, it's what most ppl sell these days as the standard version isnt sold much in stores, mainly only see it online. The next techonlogy will likely be 4k displays and OLEDs. Both are still a couple more years away from being affordable for mainstream.
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Old 10-23-2012, 06:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by texasrattler View Post

The latest version of HDMi is 1.4b released a year ago. I don't see much talk about it though. Ppl still usually refer to 1.4 or 1.4a. By the end of 2012, there is suppose to be HDMI 2.0. If it gets released, it'll likely happen soon, otherwise it'll happen early next year.
You likely will always want a high speed version, it's what most ppl sell these days as the standard version isnt sold much in stores, mainly only see it online. The next techonlogy will likely be 4k displays and OLEDs. Both are still a couple more years away from being affordable for mainstream.

Got it, ok - Thanks !
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Old 10-23-2012, 06:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoelxD View Post

What I'm getting at, is I also want to make sure these HDMI cables are future proof. If I buy a 4k TV down the road, will it work properly ? Also want to make sure it complies with absolutely all possible features HDMI offers. This is what I mean by "version" or "protocol" number, etc..

there is no such thing as "future proof", sadly...

also, there are no longer hdmi versions associated with cables... there is no such thing as a "hdmi 1.4 cable"...

if it will make you feel better, buy the "with ethernet" ones... i seriously doubt they'll actually ever have any use, but that would "complete" the spec, as far as the cable is concerned...

really, the "cable" doesn't "care" what version of hdmi you are using (it is passive, it simply carries data)... with a short enough run, even an "older" cable will work, however, new ones are cheap enough... to be honest, i've got a box full of "newies", and whenever i make a system change, i generally just use a new cable that is the "correct" length (i've never actually "broken" one, and i've used hdmi since day 1)... again, they are cheap...

i have all monoprice/tartan cables in my system (personally, i prefer the tartans), other than 1 40' bjc series-1 cable that i used when i had my pj ceiling mounted... i also have a couple of their 25' f2 cables lying around from when i had to pull a few (the f2's are MUCH easier to pull)...

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Old 10-23-2012, 08:30 PM
 
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Originally Posted by JoelxD View Post

Ahhhh yes, as I figured. This is because it is digital I guess, right ? Because I know for sure analog cables passing analog signal do indeed make differences in quality of sound vs price, etc..
Now, 1 thing I do imagine makes a difference though, is how soon the cable would break, or how well the end connectors are made for a good fit, etc.. And now this I wouldn't want to spend a lot on, but would be willing to spend a touch more to get a well crafted one.
I heard something about BJC HDMI cables are a good middle ground for this. Is this correct ? Or do you feel the absolute cheapest HDMI cable is best ?
Also, but is there any protocol number I should make sure to get ? Or certification ? etc ?? Like 2.0 "High Speed" certified ? Or something like that ? Could you please tell me the newest latest version HDMI is up to now ? Thanks !

Read through this very recent thread. Don't stop at the first append but read the explanations below.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/961849/hdmi-cable-facts-and-myths

Remember no HDMI version number with cables (and eventually with all components) - just High Speed and Standard Speed.
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Old 10-23-2012, 08:38 PM
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Originally Posted by JoelxD View Post

I heard something about BJC HDMI cables are a good middle ground...
In terms of performance, the BJC Series 1 is about as good as it gets at any price, primarily because of the proprietary Belden bonded-pair cable.

Frankly, you are worrying too much. At 6' any HDMI cable should work just fine for you. If you don''t get sparkles or worse, the cable is giving you as good a picture as any cable can.
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Old 10-23-2012, 08:50 PM
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...and eventually with all components...
I believe eventually has arrived.
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Old 10-24-2012, 02:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Wow ! Thanks so much for the help guys. Seems straight forward enough. I go to Amazon, and buy a few freakin HDMI cables that are cheap, and call it quits !!! I like it :-D

Hey, one more question. Someone told me that Optical Digital Audio cable/protocol/path actually compresses the sound, and is not the best way to get surround sound to and fro things. But that HDMI carries surround sound audio completely uncompressed AND a much better quality therefore.

Number 1 - Is this true ?

and if so:

Number 2 - Can I pass surround sound audio ONLY (no video) through a HDMI cable ?

Cause here is what I was thinking of doing. Instead of having signals go everywhere they don't need to go (Video and Audio to my receiver [through HDMI], then to the TV [through HDMI], or vice versa Signal to my TV [HDMI] then to the receiver), it would be best to have each thing (Video and Audio) go directly to their final destination opposed to pass through things.... Example (for BluRay Player) - VIDEO ONLY going directly to the TV from the BluRay Player (via HDMI). And then AUDIO ONLY going directly to the Receiver from the BluRay player (via HDMI).

Now I know both signals will pass through the cable anyway, but I'd turn the speaker on the TV to off, so won't make a sound. Then the Receiver gets the Audio directly from the BluRay player and then plays it through my surround speakers in the room, and even though its also getting a video signal, it just has no where to output it (cause I wont finish that path back to the TV)...

Does this work ? Or will a HDMI Cable recognize something is not getting signal pass, and then stop the whole thing from working ?
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Old 10-24-2012, 09:38 AM
 
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Originally Posted by JoelxD View Post

Wow ! Thanks so much for the help guys. Seems straight forward enough. I go to Amazon, and buy a few freakin HDMI cables that are cheap, and call it quits !!! I like it :-D
Hey, one more question. Someone told me that Optical Digital Audio cable/protocol/path actually compresses the sound, and is not the best way to get surround sound to and fro things. But that HDMI carries surround sound audio completely uncompressed AND a much better quality therefore.
Number 1 - Is this true ?
and if so:
Number 2 - Can I pass surround sound audio ONLY (no video) through a HDMI cable ?
Cause here is what I was thinking of doing. Instead of having signals go everywhere they don't need to go (Video and Audio to my receiver [through HDMI], then to the TV [through HDMI], or vice versa Signal to my TV [HDMI] then to the receiver), it would be best to have each thing (Video and Audio) go directly to their final destination opposed to pass through things.... Example (for BluRay Player) - VIDEO ONLY going directly to the TV from the BluRay Player (via HDMI). And then AUDIO ONLY going directly to the Receiver from the BluRay player (via HDMI).
Now I know both signals will pass through the cable anyway, but I'd turn the speaker on the TV to off, so won't make a sound. Then the Receiver gets the Audio directly from the BluRay player and then plays it through my surround speakers in the room, and even though its also getting a video signal, it just has no where to output it (cause I wont finish that path back to the TV)...
Does this work ? Or will a HDMI Cable recognize something is not getting signal pass, and then stop the whole thing from working ?

Joel, many questions, many answers. Let's start with S/PDIF (digital audio over either Toslink optical or coax). S/PDIF was invented in the mid-1980s as a way to send out digital audio from a CD player (remember those?) to a receiver without going through the player's D/A converter. So, it was initially limited to CD-quality 2-channel sound (44.1kHz, 16-bit). The bandwidth was sufficient to handle DVD's 2-channel 48kHz, 16-bit audio, as well. So, for stereo sound, nothing is compressed. It is all the original bits, which the record companies didn't really like when they realized, after the fact, the can of worms that had been opened.

For 5.1-channel audio, there is not enough bandwidth (think of it as the amount of bits the cable can have in it at any time) for uncompressed 5.1-channel sound. However, the DVD (and a few other formats) also didn't have enough margins for uncompressed 5.1-channel audio *and* the video for a movie. So for a DVD, DTS 5.1-channel compressed sound is sized to fit in approximately the same space as 2-channel audio and Dolby Digital is sized to fit in approximately the space of 1-channel of audio. Both of these formats can be sent over S/PDIF without altering the compressed audio originally in the DVD.

With DVD-Audio, SACD and Blu-Ray, uncompressed 5.1-channel (and 7.1-channel and beyond for Blu-Ray) are beyond the capabilities of S/PDIF. A Dolby Digital and/or DTS output can still be carried by S/PDIF but not the uncompressed version of the audio. Only HDMI offers a digital method of sending the uncompressed audio. Of course many Blu-Ray players output 7.1-channel analog audio. All this means is that the D/A conversion is done in the player and then sent to the receiver. If done properly this can sound the same as HDMI audio decoding in the receiver. If done properly...

Now the record and movie industry tried to learn from their S/PDIF mistake and copy protected everything about Blu-Ray. The disc is copy protected and certainly the HDMI link is copy protected. One of the methods for that is to limit what conversions can take place. So, there is no mechanism that is available (that I know of) that would convert uncompressed audio to a different format, except for some switchers that will convert the uncompressed audio to analog (like many Blu-Ray players do).

The HDMI signal is a digital stream so there isn't a separate audio line and a separate video line. So, whether you have video included or not, the bits are still included for video. If you set your receiver to "passthrough" (or "passthru") where the resolution (and other parameters) are not changed, then your receiver will not alter the bits in the HDMI stream going to your TV. That is why it is OK to send the video through your receiver to the TV.

Bottom line is if your receiver has an HDMI input then use it for both video and audio. If not, then the next best thing is to send 7.1-channel analog audio out of the Blu-Ray player to your receiver and the video to your TV over HDMI. Make sure all bass management is done in the receiver and none is done in the Blu-Ray player. Basically in the Blu-Ray player, set all speakers to large at 0dB levels, with no delay. In the receiver set the speakers correctly for size, levels and delay.

Hopefully I hit all of your questions. The best way to learn is to try out some of what you wrote and let your ears be your guide.
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Old 10-24-2012, 10:17 AM
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^^^^^ very nice explanation. and to answer JoelxD's question about turning off the tv speakers, by all means, do turn them off. That's what I do. TV for us is OTA so I have an optical cable going from the tv to the avr so I can discrete 5.1 audio from the ATSC tuner. Other than that, all other audio (blu-ray player, AppleTV2) is played thru the avr via High Speed HDMI connections and the video is passed via HDMI to the tv.
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Old 10-24-2012, 10:53 AM
 
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Thanks, Otto!
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Old 10-24-2012, 01:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alk3997 View Post

~ see original post (Post #12) for full content ~

alk3997, thanks so much for this detailed answer. Yea, I learned a lot from your post/reply, and I got my answers from it. But as usual, it brought more questions - lol. Ok, so yes, the problem with me now is until I save up more, my current receiver doesn't have HDMI. (I mainly was asking the question above, for when I do get one, then how would I want to set it up, as I am a fan of super direct signals). Your explanation though, (by explaining "passthru") made me satisfied with just running a HDMI signal to and from my receiver (especially if it is new). SO that is/was that.

BUT now the new question arrises, is for now, I like the 7.1 analog out (I'm a 7.1 guy, so all this will always be about 7.1) of the BluRay Player, to me receiver and Video through HDMI to my TV. I want to ask though, is my BluRay player good enough to do that "properly" as you stated, AND how would I do it ? lol - First off, I have just bought the Oppo BDP-93, now is this a good enough BluRay to convert audio properly up to standards ? OR in my exact situation, would just accepting the Optical Out be better ? So I guess the real question is, on the Oppo BDP-93 is its D/A conversion better or worse than the compressed signal of a Optical protocol ?

Next question, How would I hook it up ? On the back of the BluRay, the only analog outs I see are RCA jacks labeled FL, FR, SL, SR, C, SW, and SBL. On my receiver, the only way analog IN for 8 channels is the Speaker Wire/Banana Plugs. Other than that, it is just Optical, Coaxial, and Source RCA Inputs. If indeed sound would be best allowing the BluRay to convert, then unless I am wrong, I will need some wires that go from RCA to Speaker Wire/Banana Plug ends. Is that possible ? And/or what do you recommend ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Otto Pylot View Post

^^^^^ very nice explanation. and to answer JoelxD's question about turning off the tv speakers, by all means, do turn them off. That's what I do. TV for us is OTA so I have an optical cable going from the tv to the avr so I can discrete 5.1 audio from the ATSC tuner. Other than that, all other audio (blu-ray player, AppleTV2) is played thru the avr via High Speed HDMI connections and the video is passed via HDMI to the tv.

Ok, that sounds like exactly what I will do once I get a HDMI receiver. And its pretty much exactly what I was getting at as far as, "would this work" or not. Thanks for the confirmation. Other than I admit, I was also asking about sending video directly to the TV via HDMI, ha ! But as alk3997 pointed out, I guess I don't need to go that far.
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Old 10-24-2012, 02:03 PM
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^^^

the speaker posts are "out", not "in"... as described, you can't hook up 7.1 analog to your avr, you don't have the correct inputs... you are going to have to hook up spdif...

the oppo 93 is a fine player, i use one myself... smile.gif

once you get the hdmi enabled avr, you will likely be best off just hooking up via hdmi to the avr and sending your audio that way... this will allow you to use the dsp of the avr (specifically bass management and room correction)...

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Old 10-24-2012, 02:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

^^^

the speaker posts are "out", not "in"... as described, you can't hook up 7.1 analog to your avr, you don't have the correct inputs... you are going to have to hook up spdif...

the oppo 93 is a fine player, i use one myself... smile.gif

once you get the hdmi enabled avr, you will likely be best off just hooking up via hdmi to the avr and sending your audio that way... this will allow you to use the dsp of the avr (specifically bass management and room correction)...

Ha ! Dang, your right, my bad, of course these are the outputs I was looking at on my receiver. Crap ! LOL, I actually knew that, but am a little distraught over looking at all this, then typing it back in here.

Anyway, you are right, best way for me now is simply going in Optical.

Thanks again for everyone's help ! :-)
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