Hdmi denon 3311 lg tv flickering help! - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 20 Old 01-28-2013, 04:44 PM - Thread Starter
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I had a sharp lcd 1080p tv i just replaced with a LG 55lm4600. my receiver is a denon 3311, never had any issues with. after buying the lg the denon and the lg are not cooperating together getting the flickering like everyone seems to be getting. I was on the phone with denon and lg and problem is still not solved. went to best buy bought more high speed cables and nothing changes. the only way for the screen to stop flickering and going in and out is to take the 1080p off. works perfect in 720p or 1080i. im on my second lg same model. any ideas whats causing this? i tried unplugging everything from wall also nothing changes. any helpful tips please.
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post #2 of 20 Old 01-28-2013, 06:29 PM
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how long is the cable in question???
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post #3 of 20 Old 01-28-2013, 06:30 PM - Thread Starter
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6.5ft
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post #4 of 20 Old 01-28-2013, 08:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mgmustang1 View Post

I had a sharp lcd 1080p tv i just replaced with a LG 55lm4600. my receiver is a denon 3311, never had any issues with. after buying the lg the denon and the lg are not cooperating together getting the flickering like everyone seems to be getting. I was on the phone with denon and lg and problem is still not solved. went to best buy bought more high speed cables and nothing changes. the only way for the screen to stop flickering and going in and out is to take the 1080p off. works perfect in 720p or 1080i. im on my second lg same model. any ideas whats causing this? i tried unplugging everything from wall also nothing changes. any helpful tips please.

sometimes two HDMI devices don't work well together (possibly related to HDCP in some cases) and if that's the case, the HDMI cable might have nothing to do with it

I had a issue with a 2008 panny plasma connected to a Sony HT-SS2300 HTIB a while back, where the colors would be inverted and when I connected that HTIB to another TV, the issue was gone.
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post #5 of 20 Old 01-29-2013, 10:09 AM
 
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Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

sometimes two HDMI devices don't work well together (possibly related to HDCP in some cases) and if that's the case, the HDMI cable might have nothing to do with it

I had a issue with a 2008 panny plasma connected to a Sony HT-SS2300 HTIB a while back, where the colors would be inverted and when I connected that HTIB to another TV, the issue was gone.

Interface problems are some of the hardest things to track down.

You'll find that what many people think is an HDCP problem is actually an EDID problem. HDCP's solution to pretty much any issue is no picture and no audio. Basically HDCP "feels" that any issue must be someone trying to steal the signal and therefore no signal should be available.

EDID problems can lead to strange images and audio. Of course, bit errors can also generate some strangeness, as well.
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post #6 of 20 Old 01-29-2013, 01:26 PM - Thread Starter
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can anyone tell me why the tv and denon work fine up to 1080i but once i start the 1080p the picture goes in and out and the sound also?
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post #7 of 20 Old 01-29-2013, 01:34 PM
 
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That's what we're trying to figure out.

What brand of 6.5 foot High Speed HDMI cable did you purchase and have you tried a different HDMI cable from a different vendor (not Best Buy)?

Also please tell us you didn't spend over $15 for the 6.5 foot cable.

Basically that 1080i/720p works points towards bit errors at higher speeds (1080p). Most of the time these are caused by the cable not being designed for higher speeds. It could also be caused by damage in the cable or the connectors. Trying a completely different cable (different manufacturer) would help to rule out some of that.

Also have you updated the Denon and the LG firmware to their latest level? I'm not aware of any Denon firmware issues that could cause this but I don't know about the LG.

I know the Denon only has one HDMI output but have you tried different LG HDMI inputs? This is unlikely to help since you already tried two different LGs. Can you try the Sharp again to rule out a Denon connector problem? If the Sharp works, that would seem to point towards an LG or cable problem. The LG could be a generic problem. I assume you checked the owner's thread under "flat panels" in the AVSForum to see if anyone else has had this problem?

...and do exactly what Budwich has said below. (must be slipping that I didn't mention disabling Deep Color in this thread already)
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post #8 of 20 Old 01-29-2013, 01:35 PM
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The data rates are higher and something in your setup does not / can not accommodate the higher rate. Surprised that Andy has suggested to you to turn off all "deep color" features EVERYWHERE and see if that helps. Further, turn off "auto" anything to do with hdmi "stuff" and set a specific value... thing slike color space, etc. and see if that helps.
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post #9 of 20 Old 01-29-2013, 02:50 PM - Thread Starter
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i have hdmi control off on denon. ps3 took all deep color, and 1080p 24hz off. still nothing. so far for cables i tried omnimount high speed cables, and yesterday bought cables from bestbuy made by forest. yes the cables were 6ft and 39.99 but i am returning because it didnt solve the problem. i just ordered monster cable 1000hd so i guess will see how that goes.

i appreciate the help anymore ideas? oh and the forest cables gave off this beeping sound and no signal for picture. im not liking hdmi right now!

all firmware was already updated.

i tried all 3 hdmi outputs on the tv. the denon had 2 monitors and 6 hdmi outs. same result for all. monitor 2 seems a little better than monitor 1 on the denon but still blacks out. most of the time now im getting no signal showing up on the screen. i tried cables from sears, and bestbuy same results, some worse than others.
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post #10 of 20 Old 01-29-2013, 02:58 PM
 
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Sharp available? Beeping sound is not usually an HDMI problem. So any more information or description of the sound would be helpful.

Monster is not a good choice. Try Monoprice.

What happens with PS3 direct to LG?
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post #11 of 20 Old 01-29-2013, 03:06 PM - Thread Starter
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ps3 direct to lg is perfect.


the sharp is not available but i did hook up my 24" playstation 3d tv and worked perfect no problems.
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post #12 of 20 Old 01-29-2013, 03:10 PM
 
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Sharp available for testing?
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post #13 of 20 Old 01-29-2013, 03:14 PM - Thread Starter
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the sharp is not available but i did hook up my 24" playstation 3d tv and worked perfect no problems.


the beeping sound came from the forest hdmi cables, but with the other cables there is popping sounds along with the video.
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post #14 of 20 Old 01-29-2013, 03:26 PM
 
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Popping sounds can indicate bit errors. But they can also occur when the stream gets interrupted due to a handshake / firmware problem.

I think you are down to two possibilties. Either bit error caused by a cable or connector or firmware incompatibility in the LG that can't talk with the Denon.

Have you checked the owner's forum for the LG to see if anyone else has reported this problem?
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post #15 of 20 Old 01-29-2013, 04:01 PM - Thread Starter
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got a break through in hdmi settings. was playing around with turning on upscaling and changing the 1080p/24hz format. seems to be working but when in menus is seems like picture studders and not smooth as it should look.
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post #16 of 20 Old 01-29-2013, 04:22 PM
 
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If you are seeing jagged edges (not as smooth) then that could be from outputting a different resolution than the panel's native resolution (720p going to a 1080p display, for instance).
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post #17 of 20 Old 01-29-2013, 04:26 PM
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that's because menus aren't usually generated as 24fps. At least you are making some progress. Based on my experience, it is likely that you have a "marginal" component that has some issues with 1080p/60. Without a "full scale" analyser, it is hard to isolate where the issue might be.... :-( I would contiue to look at option settings as potential for success.
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post #18 of 20 Old 01-29-2013, 05:16 PM - Thread Starter
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so i tried everything i could so far. the resolution has to be set on 1080p:24hz setting or tv gets no signal. so this looks like it rules out the denon completely and now is something with the tv and combatabilty with the denon. correct? the way i found this out is in the denon manual. when i play a game i dont see jagged edges but its not as smooth as it should be. can someone tell me what 1080p;24hz means?
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post #19 of 20 Old 01-30-2013, 07:31 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mgmustang1 View Post

so i tried everything i could so far. the resolution has to be set on 1080p:24hz setting or tv gets no signal. so this looks like it rules out the denon completely and now is something with the tv and combatabilty with the denon. correct? the way i found this out is in the denon manual. when i play a game i dont see jagged edges but its not as smooth as it should be. can someone tell me what 1080p;24hz means?

I probably should give you three answers to your question of 'what 1080p:24hz means?'

Let start with the technical answer - Any time you see Hz, that is an abrievation for Hertz. Mr. Hertz's name is used to indicate cycles per second. In terms of video that means the number of video refreshes per second. In the old standard definition days, half of the screen (alternating lines) would be updated at 1/60th of a second in the U.S. since that was the frequency used in your house's AC power. In Europe it was 50Hz since the AC power freqency is 50 times a second (50Hz). High Definition has the ability to update a full screen at 60Hz. Movie projectors have almost always shown frames of the motion picture at 24Hz, since the early projectors couldn't spool film any faster.

For Blu-Ray, a standard was adopted that allows a Blu-Ray disc to output frames at 24Hz to match the original motion picture update rate. That is what you are forcing by going to 1080p/24Hz. So any motion sports should look jumpy or unusual since you are essentially removing 36 of the 60 update frames you would normally get when watching TV. Not a good trade. 1080p means that there are 1,080 lines in the picture and the 'p' means 'progressive' so that all of the lines are updated with each refresh. So, that is answer 1.

Answer 2 is that it means you still either have a firmware issue, and the handshake is working at 24Hz, or you have bit errors because 1080p/24Hz uses less bits per second than 1080p/60 which is the refresh rate causing you the errors. So this really hasn't ruled anything out. If you want to rule out bit errors, take the TV (I know it can be tough to move the TV) closer to your Denon and connect with a 3 or 6' cable without any wall plugs or anything but the cable between the TV and the Denon. That would eliminate any bit errors. Pretty much any non-damaged 6' HDMI cable should be able to pass 1080p/60. Also remember to return any of the Denon settings to their default that you changed during previous troubleshooting (including 24Hz).

Answer 3 is the toughest because I don't want this to sound like anything but intended good advice. If you are asking what 1080p/24Hz is, then you don't have the knowledge necessary to debug a firmware problem. It's very much like opening the hood to a car and saying you'll troubleshoot the engine and then asking what does "cylinder" mean. Firmware errors are not easy for experienced engineers to debug since only the manufacturer has the data necessary to debug and they don't share that data. It also ususally involves bus snoopers (or computer equivalents) that can look at the signals and attempt to determine if the correct bits are being sent out by the TV to the AVR and then to the source components.

If it were me, I'd try the bit error test in answer #2. If that works out, then it's likely a firmware problem. At that point if there is a way to take this LG model back to the store and get a different model (even a significantly different LG model), I'd do that. If you can't take the TV back, then you're going to have to convince LG they have a problem (good luck). In my experience, if you haven't bypassed a firmware problem in a day, it isn't possible to bypass it - it needs reprogramming.

I hope it turns out to be bit errors, since at least that is fixable. But, without a lot of learning and luck, I don't think you're going to be able to do anything with a firmware issue. Sorry to be more blunt about this than I'd like to be.
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post #20 of 20 Old 01-30-2013, 12:36 PM
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one other thing.... on my 4308 denon, there is an info status screen that tells you what the receiver thinks the tv / hdmi output can handle... hopefully the 3313 has a similar feature, check it and see.

further I see that there is a potential for "3d stuff" being involved with the components listed... make sure you things set up correctly and in particular try to remove those aspects to get to a simple 1080p/60 2d setup.
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