Possible HDMI Handshake Problem? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 9 Old 04-12-2013, 07:00 AM - Thread Starter
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Apologies for cross posting, but it was suggested to me in the HDTV Technical thread that someone here named Andy may be able to help? Here's my original post there and my follow up info. Thanks!

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1467798/possible-hdmi-handshake-problem

Pulling my hair out trying to figure this out. I had my PS3, Blu Ray (LG), and cable box (Samsung/Cablevision) all running to my TV (LG) and everything was working great. I had the TV wall mounted last week and the HDMI cables for all run in the wall. The cable box and the PS3 work beautifully, no matter what port I hook them up to. The Blu Ray though gives me a "no signal" message on 99% of my hook up attempts. The other 1% is does me the home screen but there is a tremendous amount of picture noise. I grabbed my Sony Blu Ray from another room and it works ago, but there is a decent amount of noise/random "snow" on that too, both regardless of what port I use.

I'm assuming that it's not the wiring since the PS3 and cable box work ok, but can't figure out wht else it could be. The only other thing I could find by searching was a potential HDMI handshake issue, but I'm not sure how to fix this. Anyone encounter this/know what to do?

I am using slim redmere HDMI that are going from the TV to HDMI wall plates, connected via in wall rated HDMI to lower wall plates and from there to the components (all from monoprice). Like I said though, other components seem to work ok on all ports, and I also traded different cables.

----


So after posting here, on another forum, talking to LG and to Monoprice, I tested a couple of things out tonight.

The blu ray player works fine when it is connected:
- directly to the TV using component cables
- directly to the TV using standard HDMI cable
- directly to the TV using the redmere HDMI cable
- connected to the wall plate via standard hdmi to in wall standard hdmi to hdmi wall plate to redmere to TV
- connected to the wall plate via standard hdmi to in wall standard hdmi to hdmi wall plate to standard hdmi to TV
- connected to the wall plate via redmere to in wall standard hdmi to hdmi wall plate to standard hdmi to TV

The only time is does not work is when I do the routing that monoprice told me is appropriate (and is the way that my ps3 and cable box are working), which is:
- connected to the wall plate via redmere to in wall standard hdmi to hdmi wall plate to redmere to TV
- it also doesn't work if I pull the wall plate from the wall and do redmere to wall plate to redmere to tv, so apparently having redmere at both ends is an issue for this player

I'm not sure why, and obviously from the list above I have plenty of ways that do work, but its driving me nuts why it wouldn't work the way it is supposed to. I'm going to reach out to Monoprice tech support again tomorrow, but if anyone has any ideas, I'd appreciate it, especially if I go with another HTIB in the future.

Thanks.
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post #2 of 9 Old 04-12-2013, 08:26 AM
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Andy should be along shortly. wink.gif
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post #3 of 9 Old 04-12-2013, 08:47 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daledoback View Post

Apologies for cross posting, but it was suggested to me in the HDTV Technical thread that someone here named Andy may be able to help? Here's my original post there and my follow up info. Thanks!

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1467798/possible-hdmi-handshake-problem

...
Thanks.

Could you explain the snow or noise more. I think that is a clue but I'd like to understand is it blocks of noise or is it lines or sparkles? A picture would be great but not necessary. More of a description would help.

Does the noise occur before you put a disc into the Blu-Ray player (such as when a menu is up)? And (sorry to ask the simple question), does this occur on multiple discs?

Let me explain what I'm getting at. HDMI is an uncompressed transmission system. So if you are seeing MPEG-2/h.264-type block noise, that would eliminate the HDMI connection. However, if you are seeing lines or sparkles then it is probably something in the HDMI transmission. Sparkles are a sign of a bandwidth issue and would possibly be because one of the redmeres is not working as your testing seemed to suggest.

If you can write a description of the noise, that would go a long way towards figuring out the problem. Also, do you get any audio on the TV?
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post #4 of 9 Old 04-12-2013, 08:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi - I can take a picture when I get home tonight, but to describe the noise I would say that it is sparkles that flicker randomly. It does it before I put a disc in and intermittently when viewing a disc (because it is noticeable on blacks, but not other colors). It does with multiple discs. I would almost describe it as random blinking of very small spots. What I thought was a bit weird is that it does this with the Sony blu ray, but the LG one gives no signal at all. I do get full audio on the TV when using the Sony blu ray.

I thought it may be a redmere not working properly, but couldn't figure out why the same cable and connection sequence worked flawlessly on the PS3 and the cable box.

i just saw this reviews pop up on monoprice, after I bought and hooked up the cables:

Tried to run a 6 ft ultra slim redmere from a sat receiver to a keystone to a monoprice 25 foot high speed hdmi with ethernet to another keystone to a 3 ft ultraslim redmere to a tv. (running through walls to tv). The picture was super snowy and no sound.

Replaced the 6 ft ultra slim with a cheapo hdmi cable and it works perfect. I guess the two redmere chips interfere.

---

Monoprice tech this morning suggested replacing the in wall hdmi with in wall redmere and replacing the wall plates with couplers, or buying a new blu ray, or just leaving as is (with a standard hdmi starting the wiring sequence).
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post #5 of 9 Old 04-12-2013, 01:24 PM
 
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This is supposed to be from the Redmere documentation:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redmere Documenation - Page 6 
With this limitation in mind, power can be harvested from the sink device, e.g. TV or monitor, through the output driver of the equalizer circuit. This power supply is then used to supply the equalizer and subsequent circuits needed to drive the data through the output driver. Another aid in dealing with low power is to use small circuit devices. The usual limitation with this approach is that matching in these small devices deteriorates, which in itself would severely limit the performance of the channel. This problem is removed however with advanced silicon design techniques in the design of these circuits. With these power-related additions, no external power supply is required for the equalization and the 5mA HDMI limit is adhered to with the active equalizer. This ensures that the approach does not violate the standards compliance requirements of the HDMI standard.

So, the question when you add two Redmere's into a cable chain is whether there is sufficient power supplied by the sink (not the source) for both Redmeres? On second thought maybe it's just that the Sony Blu Ray matching equalization is different than a PS3 and two Redmeres can't provide that equalization.

It's not so much that the Redmeres interfere with each other as it is that one Redmere is either stealing all of the power or is making it more difficult to equalize for the cable properties properly.

Either way I think the answer is if you remove *either* Redmere every thing will work correctly, as you already know. I certainly would not remove the in-wall Redmere when the other Redmere is much easier to replace.
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post #6 of 9 Old 04-12-2013, 01:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks! The in wall is actual a standard in wall hdmi, the redmeres are actually just on each end if the chain. I will continue to just replace one of those with a standard one. I just wanted to make sure nothing was "wrong".

Thanks a lot!
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post #7 of 9 Old 04-12-2013, 01:55 PM
 
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One good thing about HDMI is that you'll know if you have problems. Those sparkles you saw were a sign of problems. When they go away (and you don't get blank screens or other obvious artifacts) then the signal is a good as it is going to get.
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post #8 of 9 Old 04-13-2013, 12:23 PM
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'Tried to run a 6 ft ultra slim redmere' - I dont get why folk are installing these cables?

RedMere power 'scavenging' may have a place on relativley long cable runs but cant see the point on short cable runs!

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post #9 of 9 Old 04-13-2013, 12:33 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Fernand View Post

'Tried to run a 6 ft ultra slim redmere' - I dont get why folk are installing these cables?

RedMere power 'scavenging' may have a place on relativley long cable runs but cant see the point on short cable runs!

Joe

I suspect it is purely for size (thickness) and flexibility. They cost more than Monoprice's other cables so that can't be the reason.
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