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post #1 of 42 Old 04-20-2013, 12:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Hello,

Hoping someone can help me. I just finished an extensive renovation on my place. Made a critical error and ran an HDMI cable through the wall from my media cabinet termination point to the back of my TV. I didn't realize this was a cable with redmere technology and I ran it backwards. The source end is at the TV and the TV end is at the source. There is no way for me to reverse the cable at this point. No conduit. What are my options at this point? If i cut the ends off the cable on each side, can the connectors be flipped? Any help is much appreciated!

thanks!
F
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post #2 of 42 Old 04-20-2013, 12:55 PM
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It's unfortunate that you didn't check your cable connection before you sealed the wall. Did you use conduit for your in-wall cabling? It's a hassle but you could pull new (or the same cable) thru and reverse it. Someone else will have to chime in on cutting the cable but it seems to me that it would be difficult to do because the wires are so small etc.
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post #3 of 42 Old 04-20-2013, 01:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi,

Unfortunately running a new cable isn't an option for me, I'll spare you the boring details but it just can't be done. There is no conduit. Cutting my wall open isn't an option either as I've taken great effort to sound proof the room with Green Glue, quiet rock, and multiple layers of drywall. Cutting any sort of hole would require hundreds of dollars in repairs if not more and lots of effort.

The cable is 40 ft long (http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10255&cs_id=1025506&p_id=9431&seq=1&format=2). I am wondering if I simply cut both ends and have it re-crimped as a passive cable if that will solve my problem.

Thanks!
F
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post #4 of 42 Old 04-20-2013, 02:31 PM
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I feel for ya with your cable situation frown.gif. 40' is too long for a passive HDMI cable, especially with the small gauge wires of the Redmere's. High Speed HDMI cables are usually certified up to 25'. There are a couple of major contributor's to this forum who have a wealth of knowledge between them. Hopefully they will pick up this thread and come up with a workable solution for you. Hang in there.
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post #5 of 42 Old 04-20-2013, 04:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks! My only solution might be to reverse the ends, but I have no idea how I can safely accomplish this. With a Redmere cable, is the chip only on the source end?
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post #6 of 42 Old 04-20-2013, 06:02 PM
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Even if you managed to reterminate the cable succesfully as a passive HDMI cable, it wouldn't work well, if at all. According to your link, your cable is 28 AWG. The best 28 AWG passive HDMI cables are certified category 2 (high speed) up to about 15', and category 1 (standard) up to about 25'. At 40', it is unlikely your cable would successfully transmit 720p or 1080i, let alone higher resolutions.

Swapping ends while theoretically possible is probaby unfeasible. It would involve unsoldering 19 tiny connections on each end without damaging connectors, chips, and wire, and then resoldering with the same concerns. And even then, there is the problem that the chips are programmed for the specific cable as built, which you will not have when you get done.

If the cable is not tightly fastened to the structure, you might be able to cut the ends off and use it to pull a Category 6 cable and use a HDBaseT-based extender. It is worth a try. Your current cable is useless as it is.
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post #7 of 42 Old 04-20-2013, 06:11 PM
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I believe the chipset is at the sync end (labeled TV on my Redmere cable) not the source end.

Oops. I see Colm answered your question. Sounds like attempting a cable pull is your only option.
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post #8 of 42 Old 04-21-2013, 07:17 AM
 
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Colm's advice is very good and spot-on (as usual). You really are stuck with a non-working cable no matter what you do.

So, your only option is to figure out the least painful way of replacing it. I suspect you've used the Green Glue throughout the wall, which will probably eliminate any chance of pulling a new cable through. That leaves cutting out the cable or hiding the replacement HDMI cable outside of the wall as your only alternatives.

Unfortunately once there is no way to use the current Redmere cable, you are left with your only alternative being to install a replacement. Hiding in the ceiling or along floorboards might provide a way around cutting into the wall. If outside-of-wall doesn't work, that would leave opening up the wall as the only thing left to do since for something you spent this much time/money on, wireless would not be a good choice.
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post #9 of 42 Old 04-21-2013, 08:04 AM - Thread Starter
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Hey guys thanks for all the good information. Guess it's time to cut my losses here and move on. Today I'm going to look into a route to pull a cat 6 cable. Any recommendations for an HDBase-t extender?

Thanks!
F
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post #10 of 42 Old 04-21-2013, 12:31 PM
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Otto and Andy are spot on – and it looks like you are ready to swallow the bitter pill of installing a new cable, ouch!

I hope running the CAT6 cable is not too onerous!

http://www.octavainc.com/HDMI_extender_HD70STPEX.html

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post #11 of 42 Old 04-21-2013, 02:19 PM
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I've been pleased with equipment made by Atlona. Their stuff is pricey, but tends to be at the higher end of performance/durability. Many of their products include a three year warranty.

A link to their collection of extenders:

http://www.atlona.com/621-HDMI

In some cases, the products displayed on this web page are transmitters or receivers, designed to work together. In other cases, these are receivers designed to work with specific HDMI/HDBaseT matrix switchers (the switcher has the transmitter built-in.

Your application might call for a AT-HDTX-IR transmitter at one end of the CAT6 cable and a AT-HDRX-IR receiver at the other end. Atlona also make a less expensive version which does not support bidirectional IR.

Many of the Atlona extenders are true HDBaseT in that Atlona is licensed to use HDBaseT technology and the equipment is certified through independent testing to perform to HDBaseT standards/requirements.

I also know of installations which use SNAP-AV equipment with good results.

Good luck.
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post #12 of 42 Old 04-21-2013, 10:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks again, everyone! Will this do the job for me?

http://item.mobileweb.ebay.ca/viewitem?index=0&sbk=1&nav=SEARCH&itemId=200847667639

F
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post #13 of 42 Old 04-21-2013, 11:25 PM
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Atlona is fine. You will need both a transmitter and a receiver. Have you noted the shipping cost on your link? FWIW there are HDBaseT products available from places like monoprice that will do the job as well for the length you have for about half the price.
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post #14 of 42 Old 04-22-2013, 05:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi Colm,

Thank you for the reply. I definitely don't want to break the bank here as I've already blown my budget on this work. A cheaper solution from Monoprice would make more sense. I found two listing's on monoprice, this being the cheaper of the two: http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=109&cp_id=10110&cs_id=1011012&p_id=8122&seq=1&format=2

will this solve my problem? Will I require any more hardware?

thanks!
F
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post #15 of 42 Old 04-22-2013, 07:35 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by halteh View Post

Hi Colm,

Thank you for the reply. I definitely don't want to break the bank here as I've already blown my budget on this work. A cheaper solution from Monoprice would make more sense. I found two listing's on monoprice, this being the cheaper of the two: http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=109&cp_id=10110&cs_id=1011012&p_id=8122&seq=1&format=2

will this solve my problem? Will I require any more hardware?

thanks!
F

Have to throw my 2 cents here - You've spent a "boatload" of money on this room if you've insulated with quiet rock and Green Glue and I suspect non-touching double walls. For whatever reason, the Redmere got installed backwards and is unusuable. But, now is not the time to "save money" and sacrifice your room's planned capabilities. Quite the opposite. It's time to make sure you get something that will be as reliable and useful as the originally planned cable. Otherwise all of that money already spent is wasted.

I have to be careful with that argument since that's the same argument some BB salesmen use to sell overly expensive HDMI cables. This is not that case. HDBaseT has some advantages.

Colm can provide more info but you should also make sure that whatever solution will be comparable to the Redmere in capability.
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post #16 of 42 Old 04-22-2013, 08:23 AM - Thread Starter
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Thank you! I am just trying to get a workable solution here that will offer the same quality as the cable I had originally run. I am planing to eventually put a Panasonic plasma on the wall and the HDMI will run from a Yamaha Aventage 3020 receiver. I'm new in the space of HDBaseT and just need a solution that will solve my screw up.

I currently have 2 category 6 cables running to the back wall. I hope to use one for TV (ethernet ready) and the other for the HDMI (HDBaseT). Just looking for a solution that will work and isn't overkill. The Ethernet cable I ran is very, very high quality cable at exactly 40 ft length. The monoprice solution seems to offer what I'd need, but again this is new to me. I'm willing to just blindly accept someone's opinion who knows more than me and can offer a solution that is cost effective.

If I can avoid dropping $300-400 on this mistake that would be ideal.

thanks!
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post #17 of 42 Old 04-22-2013, 10:50 AM
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My 2p worth smile.gif

The Octava solution I linked to earlier is HDBaseT-lite so will deliver HDMI + IR out to 60m with no loss in video or audio quality and if it is a consideration being PoH only requires a PSU at the Transmitter - we have an add on module in the Transmitter circuitry to allow us to power the Receiver over the CAT cable.

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post #18 of 42 Old 04-22-2013, 11:29 AM
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Octava is fine, too. The main reason I suggested monoprice is that their products are cheaper. All HDBaseT products use the same chipsets from Valens. The differences between products are in the details, like how well they maintain the characteristic impedance of the cable on the traces on the PC board leading to the chip. These differences can certainly make a difference in performance at long distances, but at 40' aren't very important. HDBaseT products seem to be have very solid performance. The cheapest seem to perform as well as the most expensive, except under the most extreme conditions. The other reason is that monoprice has a good return policy. If it doesn't work out, you can easily return the product and move up to something else.
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post #19 of 42 Old 04-22-2013, 01:16 PM
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I asked about this in another thread, but did not see a reply..

Is Octava licensed to use HDBaseT technology? Are these Octava product independently tested/certified to meet HDBaseT performance/requirements as called out in the HDBaseT licensing?

I don't see any HDBaseT claims on the Octava product web page and Octava is not listed on the HDBaseT org web site as a licensee?

Also the specs at the back of the pdf user's manual on the product you linked to above says good to 40 meters yet your post says 60? The spec also says CAT6a (as in _shielded_) is recommended for 1080p.


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My 2p worth smile.gif

The Octava solution I linked to earlier is HDBaseT-lite so will deliver HDMI + IR out to 60m with no loss in video or audio quality and if it is a consideration being PoH only requires a PSU at the Transmitter - we have an add on module in the Transmitter circuitry to allow us to power the Receiver over the CAT cable.

Joe
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post #20 of 42 Old 04-22-2013, 01:28 PM
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Hello tomanjudy (where has Jerry gone?)

It’s a bit of a slow process – which requires a fair few hoops to be gone through in small steps. Certain claims/logos etc. will follow soon!!! 

http://octavainc.com/blog-hdmi-switch-extender/?p=408

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PS I spotted the 40m typo yesterday then lost it – will have it sorted later today, cheers.

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post #21 of 42 Old 04-22-2013, 01:54 PM
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I'm no expert. I do not work in the industry. I don't sell anything. But, I do provide volunteer support to some organizations that use extenders and switches and cable. I have some experience with some brands of switches and extenders and cables. The organizations I support are financially constrained. We always try to spend as little as possible.

Having struggled to use some of the low end and mid-range equipment from different manufacturers, I can say with certainty:

> All brands are not the same in functionality, performance and reliability.
> Some equipment is very poorly designed.
> Getting some of these products to work consistently (at any range) can be an exercise in futility. Even if it does initially work AS EXPECTED, some months later it dies.

Good luck, and please do keep us updated.
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post #22 of 42 Old 04-22-2013, 07:24 PM
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How about opening the opposite side of the wall to correct the cable?
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post #23 of 42 Old 04-23-2013, 12:35 AM
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Jkxmir – ‘How about opening the opposite side of the wall to correct the cable?’ – good luck with that plan eek.gif

The conductors are advertised as 36 AWG – hand soldering a standard HDMI connector to such a thin cable will be quite a trick.

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post #24 of 42 Old 04-23-2013, 12:41 AM
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tomanyjudy – interesting that you (like us all) substitute brands/manufacturers. There are lots of ‘brands’ with no design or manufacturing capacity in the HDMI world. Our products are designed and manufactured ‘in-house’ at our plant in Taipei.

If we can help out on any projects please do shout.

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post #25 of 42 Old 04-23-2013, 09:37 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkxmlr View Post

How about opening the opposite side of the wall to correct the cable?

If by "correcting the cable" you mean reversing it, that would mean removing a lot of his in-wall insulation work.

If by "correcting the cable" you mean splicing another connector, that is a bad bad idea. Here is an example of what HDMI can do when incorrectly wired. This is from an earlier thread.
Quote:
I have an acer desktop computer. I have one hdmi port. When I try to plug the hdmi cord in both the pc and tv spark. The first time I tried, it blew up my television. I have since purchased an new 58 inch samsumg plasma tv. I went and spent 80.00 on a new hdmi cord. This time I made sure all power was off on both tv and pc. When plugging hdmi cord into pc, it sparked again. I mean alot of sparks. I thinkl the hdmi cord it now shot. It's all black. Fortunaltly my pc is still working. What is causing this to happen? I can't afford to lose my pc or tv.

Any attempt to splice a new end usually results in the cable not working at all or just working over short distances. In worse case you'll end up damaging equipment.

I used the above quote not because it involved a cable repair but to show that there is enough power in an HDMI connection to cause sparks.
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post #26 of 42 Old 04-23-2013, 02:23 PM
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Thanks for the offer, Joe. We're quite satisfied with Atlona, but if that ever changes, I will contact you.
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...If we can help out on any projects please do shout.

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post #27 of 42 Old 04-23-2013, 08:15 PM
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I suppose to better explain what is meant, he has multiple layers of drywall on the "room" side of the wall. If the other side of that wall is accessible, opening it up to gain access to the cable, removing the cable and replacing it in the proper orientation, then repairing the drywall would have less trauma the "room". Of course, insulation may be disturbed. Was only offering another option.
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post #28 of 42 Old 04-24-2013, 09:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkxmlr View Post

How about opening the opposite side of the wall to correct the cable?
The other side of the wall is my neighbour. I live in a semi-detached town-home. That's mostly why sound was a big concern for me. Also the cable runs through the wall and through a bulkhead in the ceiling to the back of the room. Cutting any of this would be a disaster as far as sound goes.
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post #29 of 42 Old 04-24-2013, 09:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Jkxmir – ‘How about opening the opposite side of the wall to correct the cable?’ – good luck with that plan eek.gif

The conductors are advertised as 36 AWG – hand soldering a standard HDMI connector to such a thin cable will be quite a trick.

Joe
I actually attempted to do this. I figured hell i have nothing to lose, the cables useless to me. It almost worked lol! The image and sound works, except there's a static line in the image that I can't seem to correct. My guess it's because of crosstalk on the wire. I didn't fully expect this to work, but had to at least try before I gave up.
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post #30 of 42 Old 04-25-2013, 03:12 AM
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‘It almost worked lol!’ – you have more skill/patience than me if you got as close as just one problem eek.gif

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