Need Schematic Review, HDMI with ARC - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 23 Old 05-01-2013, 03:05 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Grayleaf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Maryland
Posts: 29
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
I summon the vast knowledge of AVS to help me implement this configuration...

Synopsis: TV and Soundbar connected to an HDMI switch. The audio needs to be passed to a wireless headset when the soundbar is turned off. The TV has built-in applications such as Netflix, which should work simultaneously for the headset and soundbar. The soundbar and headset won't be used simultaneously.

Sharp 60" (847) TV

Sharp Soundbar

Octava HD41-ARC 4x1 HDMI Switch with ARC and Optical Audio Output

Connection Concept:

AV Devices (Apple TV, PS3, etc.) connect to the Octava HDMI Inputs.
Octava HDMI Out to TV HDMI input 1 (see manual p. 12 and 57-58)
The Octava Toslink output is split with one PCM stream going to the soundbar, while the other is converted to analog audio and passed to the headphones.

I'm not concerned about Dolby Digital in this setup, just clear PCM audio getting where it needs to go.

I expect it might be possible to chain ARC (Octava, to Soundbar, to TV), but then I would need to have the speaker on for this to work and it seems best just to go directly to the TV from the HDMI switch.

Please let me know what your thoughts are on the above.

Thanks.
Grayleaf is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 23 Old 05-01-2013, 09:18 PM
 
alk3997's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 3,722
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grayleaf View Post

...

Octava HD41-ARC 4x1 HDMI Switch with ARC and Optical Audio Output

Connection Concept:

AV Devices (Apple TV, PS3, etc.) connect to the Octava HDMI Inputs.
Octava HDMI Out to TV HDMI input 1 (see manual p. 12 and 57-58)
The Octava Toslink output is split with one PCM stream going to the soundbar, while the other is converted to analog audio and passed to the headphones.

...

I expect it might be possible to chain ARC (Octava, to Soundbar, to TV), but then I would need to have the speaker on for this to work and it seems best just to go directly to the TV from the HDMI switch.

Please let me know what your thoughts are on the above.

Thanks.

This is definitely a Joe question...
alk3997 is offline  
post #3 of 23 Old 05-02-2013, 01:20 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Joe Fernand's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Scotland, UK
Posts: 1,120
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Liked: 61
Your wiring plan will work as required – we have a couple of customers doing exactly as you are planning by combining our HD41-ARC with our Toslink12 (optical splitter) and TS-A11 (DAC) into headphone Amps.

The idea to daisy chain ARC won’t work as the Soundbar has x1 ARC enabled HDMI port - better to stick with your plan and bypass the Soundbar in terms of HDMI and use its Optical Input.

Joe

If I've helped 'Like' me on Facebook - www.facebook.com/Octavainc

Joe Fernand is offline  
post #4 of 23 Old 05-02-2013, 06:25 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Grayleaf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Maryland
Posts: 29
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Thanks. Since I will be running the system on backup power, I shouldn't see issues with signal interruptions.

The other ARC compatible switch I was considering was DVDO Quick.

The thing I don't like about Octava is the membrane remote. I do like the auto-sensing, so if Tivo is on all the time and a PS3 is turned on, it will switch. The issue is that an apple TV is always on as well, hence the remote. I suppose a little extra pressure is worth $150, but my wife has rhematoid arthritis. Do you know of a really simple 4 button remote that could be used to learn/replace the Octava remote? Thanks
Grayleaf is offline  
post #5 of 23 Old 05-02-2013, 02:34 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Joe Fernand's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Scotland, UK
Posts: 1,120
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Liked: 61
A combination of our SMART Scan and CEC may be enough for you to get by using the TV remote to control the switch!

Joe

If I've helped 'Like' me on Facebook - www.facebook.com/Octavainc

Joe Fernand is offline  
post #6 of 23 Old 05-02-2013, 02:51 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Grayleaf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Maryland
Posts: 29
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Apple TV apparently doesn't support HDMI CEC, although the PS3 apparently does.

It's not that big a deal to have to manually switch to the Apple TV.

Thanks
Grayleaf is offline  
post #7 of 23 Old 05-07-2013, 10:13 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Grayleaf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Maryland
Posts: 29
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Joe,

I have an HD41-ARC arriving later today and the setup is similar to the below. I wanted to get your advice on optimal connectivity.

This is a new system consisting of:

Sharp 60" 3D TV (model 847u with ARC)

Panasonic BDT-320 3D Blu-Ray Player

Sharp Soundbar

Headphones

PS3 Slim

Apple TV (current model)

Tivo Premiere XL4


In my case, the soundbar has dolby digital decoding with 2.1 speakers. I will simultaneously be using the above wireless headphones which use analog audio.

Do I need an optical splitter (see below) and this product from Octava so I can take the HDMI output from the Octava switch, and extract the L/R analog (for the analog headphones) and then pass the video to the TV? Would this break the 3D signal? Would it break ARC? Will it cause delays resulting in lip sync issues?

Is there any meaningful difference between Octava's optical splitter and this one by Gefen and this one by SiiG?

Thanks





Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Fernand;18058327 
You could utilise one of our Octava HD41-ARC 4x1 HDMI + Optical ARC enabled Switch’s to get 3D & 2D Video into the TV via one of the installed HDMI cables plus DD/DTS via Optical into the AVR and leave the Audio Only HDMI signal from the BD into the AVR.

Connectivity would be:

Apple TV
HDMI to Octava HD41-ARC
Optical to Octava HD41-ARC

BD
HDMI (A) to Octava HD41-ARC
HDMI (B) to AVR (audio only)

PS3
HDMI to Octava HD41-ARC
Optical to Octava HD41-ARC

SKY+ HD
HDMI to Octava HD41-ARC
Optical to Octava HD41-ARC

Octava HD41-ARC
HDMI to 3D enabled TV
Optical to AVR

If your TV has an ARC enabled HDMI socket this will also allow you to get the TV tuner audio into the AVR via the Optical Out on the Octava HD41-ARC.

Media Factory - Octava HD41-ARC-UK, HDMI + Optical + ARC switch

Joe
Grayleaf is offline  
post #8 of 23 Old 05-08-2013, 06:35 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Joe Fernand's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Scotland, UK
Posts: 1,120
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Liked: 61
Hello Grayleaf

There are a couple of ways to wire this one - Slightly different suggestion:

Sources
HDMI (Video + 2.0) from each Source to the HD41-ARC.
Optical (DD/DTS 5.1) from each Source to the HD41-ARC.

HD41-ARC
HDMI to HDMI stereo audio processor!
Optical to Soundbar.

TV
HDMI (ARC) to Soundbar HDMI (ARC)

HDMI audio processor (I take it you have this in place)
2RCA to Headphone amp.

Joe

If I've helped 'Like' me on Facebook - www.facebook.com/Octavainc

Joe Fernand is offline  
post #9 of 23 Old 05-08-2013, 09:32 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Grayleaf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Maryland
Posts: 29
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Joe, I'm not sure why you're recommending multiple optical connections if they can be avoided.

Please take a look at the two connection approaches below and let me know your thoughts.

PDF Schematic

Source Visio

I am seeking a solution that:

(A) Enables analog wireless headphones to work when the Soundbar is powered off.
(B) Provides multichannel DTS and DD5.1 to the soundbar while simultaneously providing a conversion to analog (preserving all the channel sounds) to RCA L/R for the wireless headphones.
(C) Allows ARC multichannel ARC audio to reach the switch (and thus headphones/soundbar).

Hopefully it's not problematic for you to consider multiple brands in this.

Thanks
Grayleaf is offline  
post #10 of 23 Old 05-09-2013, 07:16 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Joe Fernand's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Scotland, UK
Posts: 1,120
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Liked: 61
Hello Grayleaf

Octava HDDA12A-UK – is not ARC enabled and is not an audio ‘down converter’ from 5.1 to 2.0.

Need to go over the Soundbar powered Off requirement to ensure the TV ARC audio can reach the headphones – back to you in a bit!

Joe

If I've helped 'Like' me on Facebook - www.facebook.com/Octavainc

Joe Fernand is offline  
post #11 of 23 Old 05-09-2013, 07:45 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Joe Fernand's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Scotland, UK
Posts: 1,120
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Liked: 61
Assuming all of your Sources deliver 5.1 DD over HDMI you can do away with the Optical connections between the Sources and the HD14-ARC Switch – though you will require something along the lines of the Gefen GTV-DD-2-AA Optical In > 2RCA Out with DD to Stereo audio processing plus a 1x2 Optical splitter!

http://www.gefen.com/kvm/gtv-dd-2-aa.jsp?prod_id=5980

Connectivity would then be:

TV
HDMI (ARC) to HD41-ARC HDMI (ARC)

Sources
HDMI (Video + up to DD 5.1) from each Source to the HD41-ARC.

HD41-ARC
HDMI to TV ARC!
Optical to 1x2 Optical Splitter.

Toslink12 (1x2 Optical Splitter)
Optical A to Gefen Optical audio processor.
Optical B to Soundbar.

Gefen Optical audio processor
2RCA to Headphone amp.

Joe

If I've helped 'Like' me on Facebook - www.facebook.com/Octavainc

Joe Fernand is offline  
post #12 of 23 Old 05-09-2013, 07:47 AM
Advanced Member
 
Phil17108's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Orange County California
Posts: 927
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 53
There is an AVR surround setup in play in the system. Does it have HDMI switching and is it 3D compliant. I'll assume it is. If you do not have one yet take a look at http://www.accessories4less.com.
I have been setting up and using wireless headphones for ten years. Have added soundbars to 2 of the sets.
My experiences tells me to use the KISS system arrangement, keep it simple stuppppid. Wife does not like to much to remember.
What I would do is use the HDMI switch as a switch only form sources to display and have AVR between switch and display on pass through so its only used when you like. Or better yet, put the switch back in box and us AVR HDMI switching instead, getting the ARC to the right place in the first place.
As for the soundbar I would take the optical out from the TV running to the bar, use the PCM set point. Next I would set up the wireless headphones of the TV RCA audio outputs. That way the signal on the screen and the audio out put to bar or phones is the same, and phones and bar work independent of each other. If and this is a very small one at that, the Sharp does not have RCA analog audio out you can get an optical splitter from Monoprice.com along with a DAC, (digital to analog converter) powered from a USB port on TV for under 30 bucks for both.
I have my living room H.T. set up just this way AVR 7.1 when I wish and wireless headphones most of the time. The speakers in the 65 inch 3D panel work to so then my wife can use the regular TV volume control.

If the AVR is not 3D compatible, use the switch and just the optical out from it to AVR and use the RCA audio outs on the Sharp for headphones. For the internal tuners and streaming use optical out to AVR with the splitter to a deferent optical input than is used for the switch. Some set have optical and digital coax out and if that the case with your set you can run an RCA cable to the AVR instead, and no optical splitter.
As for ARC & CEC I do not use them, there is just to many bugs, what works with what?
Phil17108 is offline  
post #13 of 23 Old 05-09-2013, 01:56 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Grayleaf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Maryland
Posts: 29
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Phil,

What I'm trying to avoid is an AVR. I just finished dismantling my large AV system and this time I want to keep it simple and uncluttered. Links to the items and my ideas for connecting this are located in the thread above.

Joe,

I've used Gefen product$ in the past and that was the precise part I was looking at, but I've seen some good things about this product that also does DTS conversion. Not that it makes that big a deal to disable DTS in my source output and go only with DD, but why not. It also appears to be a couple years newer than the Gefen product.

OREI DA34
http://orei.com/index.php/electronics/audio-converters/orei-da34-optical-spdif-coaxial-digital-to-rca-l-r-analog-audio-converter.html

I'm thinking about using the Octava HD41-ARC for my loft system and use the DVDO Quick6 for my wife's system (the one I detailed). The benefit of the Quick6 is that I could output its HDMI auxillary to the soundbar and simultaneously (no splitter required) use the Quick6's coaxial digital output to the OREI DA34 (connected to the Sennheiser RS 180 inputs).

Have you heard anything about the OREI DA34? Thanks
Grayleaf is offline  
post #14 of 23 Old 05-09-2013, 02:35 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Joe Fernand's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Scotland, UK
Posts: 1,120
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Liked: 61
OREI – not a brand I’ve had a chance to try out, looks interesting though!

DVDO Quick6 – have you confirmed it will pass all Sources (Inc ARC) via the AUX HDMI port plus Digital Audio ports simultaneously!

Joe

If I've helped 'Like' me on Facebook - www.facebook.com/Octavainc

Joe Fernand is offline  
post #15 of 23 Old 05-09-2013, 05:38 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Grayleaf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Maryland
Posts: 29
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Trying to get confirmed answers on these topics:

Does the Quick6 pass multichannel audio to the HDMI, coaxial audio, and optical ports simultaneously?

Does Quick6 pass ARC audio from primary HDMI output to the auxiliary HDMI output *and* the coaxial audio and optical ports--simultaneously?


The manual isn't definitive in my opinion.
Grayleaf is offline  
post #16 of 23 Old 05-10-2013, 12:22 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Joe Fernand's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Scotland, UK
Posts: 1,120
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Liked: 61
'The manual isn't definitive in my opinion.' - agreed smile.gif

Joe

If I've helped 'Like' me on Facebook - www.facebook.com/Octavainc

Joe Fernand is offline  
post #17 of 23 Old 05-10-2013, 03:20 AM
Advanced Member
 
Phil17108's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Orange County California
Posts: 927
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 53
O. K. now I got it and why the soundbar. I guess you will have to get the quick6 to find the answers. Lets us know. I would not spent that kind of money when Monprice has one that is not as nice looking as the Quick6 but does that same thing. There ID # 7974. I also have in use right now a FiiO D3 Digital to Analog Audio Converter - 192kHz/24bit Optical and Coaxial from amazon for a set of wireless headphones. It can run on USB power and has the cable in the box.
Phil17108 is offline  
post #18 of 23 Old 05-10-2013, 06:30 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Grayleaf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Maryland
Posts: 29
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
I spoke with Ken Nguyen of DVDO today by phone.

This is the schematic of the system that I'm currently planning.

I learned two things today. First AVS has a sale on the DVDO Quick6 for $324. I spoke with Mike Garrett to place this order.

Second, the DVDO Quick6 "AVR Mode via SPDIF" (which is the mode I'm planning to use) will send ARC audio simultaneously to both the SPDIF outputs (toslink and coaxial). Hence, no splitter needed.

"AVR Mode via HDMI" will send ARC audio to the DVDO Auxiliary HDMI out.

Comment from Ken: "Currently, this is not stable but we plan to address it in future firmware soon."

What Ken has not yet confirmed (he's looking into it) is whether a DVDO Quick 6 in "AVR Mode via HDMI" will simultaneously send out multichannel audio (ARC or not) to the SPDIF outputs (toslink and coaxial). In such a scenario, unless otherwise constrained by the Quick6, there could potentially be uncompressed digital audio going to the HDMI Auxiliary and compressed audio going to the SPDIF outputs. This seems unlikely to me.

Comment from Ken: Without ARC (audio is from source devices), Quick6 will output the same audio format via HDMI Aux and S/PDIF simultaneously. What audio format depends on what AVR mode was selected in Quick6. If you select AVR via HDMI Aux mode then the audio EDID from the connected device on HDMI Aux is used. If you select AVR via S/PDIF mode then a predetermined audio EDID is used. And this audio EDID is limited up to Dolby Digital and dts.
With ARC, Quick6 can only output via S/PDIF. As mentioned above, audio from HDMI Aux (with ARC) is unstable.

Also, I found what appears to be a decent Digital DTS/DD/PCM to Analog Audio adapter from FiiO called the D07. This is superior to the older Gefen DAC in that it also converts DTS.

Ken also noted that a firmware update 1.02 for the Quick6 is expected next week or so.
Grayleaf is offline  
post #19 of 23 Old 05-10-2013, 07:39 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Grayleaf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Maryland
Posts: 29
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Phil, I also have a FiiO D03M digital to analog converter, one from Gefen, and possibly another. What I'm looking for from the FiiO D07 is the ability to convert PCM, DD, or DTS to the Sennheiser 180 wireless headphone base station.

By using SPDIF outputs from the DVDO Quick6, which is PCM, DD, or DTS, all the possibilities are covered.
Grayleaf is offline  
post #20 of 23 Old 05-11-2013, 08:25 AM
Advanced Member
 
Phil17108's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Orange County California
Posts: 927
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grayleaf View Post

Phil, I also have a FiiO D03M digital to analog converter, one from Gefen, and possibly another. What I'm looking for from the FiiO D07 is the ability to convert PCM, DD, or DTS to the Sennheiser 180 wireless headphone base station.

By using SPDIF outputs from the DVDO Quick6, which is PCM, DD, or DTS, all the possibilities are covered.


Garyleaf, you have all the bases covered, I think there is an opportunity for me to learn something here. Can't understand having other then a PCM signal for the headphone or a soundbar, unless the soundbar is a DD or a DTS devices, or are you looking to the future.
Phil17108 is offline  
post #21 of 23 Old 05-11-2013, 11:55 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Grayleaf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Maryland
Posts: 29
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
The HT-SB60 has simulated surround sound. I don't want to dumb-down the sound heading to the soundbar and lose some of the benefit of its decoding and surround simulation capabilities. At the same time, I want to make sure that I'm not losing any of the channels heading to the Sennheiser wireless speakers.

Granted, the HT-SB60 has nothing on my Yamaha YSP-4000 in terms of creating simulated surround soundfields, but if it has something, I want to retain the capability.
Grayleaf is offline  
post #22 of 23 Old 05-11-2013, 05:39 PM
Advanced Member
 
Phil17108's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Orange County California
Posts: 927
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 53
Grayleaf, thanks for the info, I have hearing damage from the 60's you may remember the old drugs sex and rock and roll. Thats the reason I use headphones, sony wireless, and a wife that hears everything.
Phil17108 is offline  
post #23 of 23 Old 05-11-2013, 11:56 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Grayleaf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Maryland
Posts: 29
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
No problem. In my case, the headphones (RS 180) are for my wife so she can hear what's going on around her (open design), do whatever she wants on her living room system, and not disturb anyone else. Some of her tastes can drive me up a wall (like Twilight). This system will let her turn off the sound bar and use the headphones or vice versa.
Grayleaf is offline  
Reply HDMI Q&A - The One Connector World

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off