Toshiba 65HDX82 DVI connection - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 20 Old 06-11-2013, 01:03 PM - Thread Starter
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I have had the above TV for a number of years and it works great. The s-video connection died some time ago, so I got cable that connected with the HDMI on my dish receiver and then to my DVI connection on the TV. I had to run separate RCA cables from the dish receiver audio channels to to the audio inputs on the TV, and it works great.

But now, I want to hook-up a MICAA Speck player to the TV. The MICAA player has only HDMI, or component outputs, and they can't be used at the same time. I temporarily connected just the HDMI cable, but I didn't even get video. The MICAA works fine using the component outputs. But I would like to use the HDMI so that I could use an HDMI switcher to connect various sources.

I have been looking for a cable or adapter to "break out" the audio signal from HDMI that could connect to the TV, to make it a true HDMI. Is there such a thing, or am I not understanding the whole thing?
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post #2 of 20 Old 06-11-2013, 03:11 PM
 
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Originally Posted by darth777 View Post

I have had the above TV for a number of years and it works great. The s-video connection died some time ago, so I got cable that connected with the HDMI on my dish receiver and then to my DVI connection on the TV. I had to run separate RCA cables from the dish receiver audio channels to to the audio inputs on the TV, and it works great.

But now, I want to hook-up a MICAA Speck player to the TV. The MICAA player has only HDMI, or component outputs, and they can't be used at the same time. I temporarily connected just the HDMI cable, but I didn't even get video. The MICAA works fine using the component outputs. But I would like to use the HDMI so that I could use an HDMI switcher to connect various sources.

I have been looking for a cable or adapter to "break out" the audio signal from HDMI that could connect to the TV, to make it a true HDMI. Is there such a thing, or am I not understanding the whole thing?

You're not understanding the whole thing. Audio and video are bits in HDMI. The bits run down the same wires whether they are audio or video. So, there are no wires to break out.

There are HDMI boxes that will split out the audio. They will all cost more than you probably paid for your MICAA MPLAY-HD box.

The 65HDX82 is a CRT-based rear projection unit. I suspect it can't take 1080p as an input. While the EDID should prevent the MPLAY-HD from sending 1080p, it can happen, particularly when interfacing with older equipment. Connect the MPLAY-HD to your TV with component video cables and then select only 1080i or 720p for output resolution. If that doesn't work, try the other resolution.

Also, reading the archives from 2003, the HDCP implementation on the Toshiba was not fully compatible with components back then (not an uncommon problem then). So, try powering the MICAA MPLAY before and then after the TV is powered-up. The start-up order can make a difference.

Thinking about this some more, why would you want to use HDMI? TVs of that era usually produced a better picture with component video than DVI/HDMI, as long as good quality component video cables were used. If it were me, I'd put one device on the DVI input and the other on the component video and simplify everything. Which device ended up where would depend upon whether you can get the MPLAY-HD to work with the DVI input on the TV.
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post #3 of 20 Old 06-12-2013, 09:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Maybe I can clarify a few points. My original set up which works perfectly is to use the HDMI output from my DISH receiver to an adapter cable to the DVI connector on the TV, and to use the audio output (L and R) from the receiver to the audio inputs on the TV. I receive HD (1080i) perfectly with this setup. Then I bought the MICAA mplay to play movies from a portable Hard Drive, which I now have to use the 3 outputs 2audio and 1video to the TV. This works fine, but I have to change the TV input from 6 (Satellite) to 3 (front input).

I am trying to simplify the hookup and provide more inputs from other devices (DVD player) etc.
I bought an inexpensive HDMI switcher, but I can't use it because there is no separate audio.

Somebody suggested another HDMI switcher that included audio out, but reading comments from other purchasers showed many had trouble with this device working.

Maybe a combination HDMI and (not with) separate audio switching??????
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post #4 of 20 Old 06-12-2013, 10:28 AM
 
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Originally Posted by darth777 View Post

Maybe I can clarify a few points. My original set up which works perfectly is to use the HDMI output from my DISH receiver to an adapter cable to the DVI connector on the TV, and to use the audio output (L and R) from the receiver to the audio inputs on the TV. I receive HD (1080i) perfectly with this setup. Then I bought the MICAA mplay to play movies from a portable Hard Drive, which I now have to use the 3 outputs 2audio and 1video to the TV. This works fine, but I have to change the TV input from 6 (Satellite) to 3 (front input).

I am trying to simplify the hookup and provide more inputs from other devices (DVD player) etc.
I bought an inexpensive HDMI switcher, but I can't use it because there is no separate audio.

Somebody suggested another HDMI switcher that included audio out, but reading comments from other purchasers showed many had trouble with this device working.

Maybe a combination HDMI and (not with) separate audio switching??????

Understood. Have you tried the following?

... Connect the MPLAY-HD to your TV with component video cables and then select only 1080i or 720p for output resolution. Then go back to DVI and see if that resolution works. If that doesn't work, go back to component video, try the other resolution and then go back to DVI. Once you get a resolution that works then you can stay on HDMI/DVI.

Also, reading the archives from 2003, the HDCP implementation on the Toshiba was not fully compatible with components back then (not an uncommon problem then). So, try powering the MICAA MPLAY before and then after the TV is powered-up. The start-up order can make a difference.
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post #5 of 20 Old 06-12-2013, 02:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by alk3997 View Post

Understood. Have you tried the following?

... Connect the MPLAY-HD to your TV with component video cables and then select only 1080i or 720p for output resolution. Then go back to DVI and see if that resolution works. If that doesn't work, go back to component video, try the other resolution and then go back to DVI. Once you get a resolution that works then you can stay on HDMI/DVI.

The MPLAY only allows settings of either PAL or NTSC video on composite, HDMI choices are 720p or i and 1080 p or i. and using the HDMI/DVI doesn't show any video.
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Also, reading the archives from 2003, the HDCP implementation on the Toshiba was not fully compatible with components back then (not an uncommon problem then). So, try powering the MICAA MPLAY before and then after the TV is powered-up. The start-up order can make a difference.

Didn't make any difference. Also note that HDMI/DVI works perfectly with the Dish player, using the extra audio cables.
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post #6 of 20 Old 06-12-2013, 03:18 PM
 
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The MPLAY only allows settings of either PAL or NTSC video on composite, HDMI choices are 720p or i and 1080 p or i. and using the HDMI/DVI doesn't show any video.
Didn't make any difference. Also note that HDMI/DVI works perfectly with the Dish player, using the extra audio cables.

When you had the HDMI choices menu up, did you select 720p or 1080i (only)? Are you sure 720i was an option since that is not a standard resolution value?
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post #7 of 20 Old 06-13-2013, 09:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by alk3997 View Post

When you had the HDMI choices menu up, did you select 720p or 1080i (only)? Are you sure 720i was an option since that is not a standard resolution value?

720p or 1080i (ONLY) wasn't an option, but I tried both 720p and 1080i, individually, and neither worked. Also, you were right, there was no 720i.
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post #8 of 20 Old 06-13-2013, 04:52 PM
 
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720p or 1080i (ONLY) wasn't an option, but I tried both 720p and 1080i, individually, and neither worked. Also, you were right, there was no 720i.

I fear that given the age of the TV and how early in the HDMI lifecycle that was (or DVI with HDCP lifecycle) that the TV may not be compatible with a Roku 3 and its later HDMI chipset. Unfortunately the early adopters of HDCP-compatible sets had these problems, particularly with DVI ports.

So, component video (not composite) may be your only choice for HD with the Roku 3 along with the analog audio outputs.
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post #9 of 20 Old 06-14-2013, 07:37 AM
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Why not use component video? Why not just get a component video switcher instead of a HDMI switcher?

Your TV is not a HDMI TV, trying to force it to work with something it wasn't actually designed to work with may cost you a great deal more time, headache, and frustration then simply working with component video.

To that point (the why) - Your TV is likely not capable of 1080p resolution, It probably does 1080i only (common with rear projection CRT), it may be able to do 720p, but 1080p wasn't out then, and wasn't supported. Component video 1080i is identical to HDMI video 1080i. It looks the same. identical. So, you don't gain quality or lose quality if you use HDMI or if you use component video. So, you will reduce your headaches, have a more stable video connection, and can buy less expensive gear that is more reliable with component video compared to HDMI.

I understand you want to... But, this seems like a battle against what you already own, and I wouldn't try to force you down that path since you have a much cleaner path already available to you.

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post #10 of 20 Old 06-14-2013, 11:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by AV_Integrated View Post

Why not use component video? Why not just get a component video switcher instead of a HDMI switcher?

Your TV is not a HDMI TV, trying to force it to work with something it wasn't actually designed to work with may cost you a great deal more time, headache, and frustration then simply working with component video.

To that point (the why) - Your TV is likely not capable of 1080p resolution, It probably does 1080i only (common with rear projection CRT), it may be able to do 720p, but 1080p wasn't out then, and wasn't supported. Component video 1080i is identical to HDMI video 1080i. It looks the same. identical. So, you don't gain quality or lose quality if you use HDMI or if you use component video. So, you will reduce your headaches, have a more stable video connection, and can buy less expensive gear that is more reliable with component video compared to HDMI.

I understand you want to... But, this seems like a battle against what you already own, and I wouldn't try to force you down that path since you have a much cleaner path already available to you.

I agree, the difficulties I am facing are:
1. My dish player works perfectly with the HDMI/DVI + audio connection with 1080i, however I haven't tried to hook it up with component video (it is very difficult for me to change connectors on the TV since they are on the back and down low, but I will do it if necessary).
2. The only output that seems to work on the Micaa player are composite connections, (hence trying to use the hdmi connection).
3. The component switches I have looked at appear to have a high dissatisfaction rate among buyers. (presently looking at "4 port component switch from monoprice.com .)
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post #11 of 20 Old 06-14-2013, 02:06 PM
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You can pick up MUCH better 4x1 component video switches via eBay for next to nothing.

I used Zektor for a number of years. They were hundreds of dollars new, and around 20 bucks or so on eBay when they show up. Truly high end prosumer instead of junk.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Zektor-HDS4-Component-Audio-Video-switch-with-optical-audio-HDS-4-HDS-4-/400506471520?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5d400bc460

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post #12 of 20 Old 06-14-2013, 02:10 PM
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Geez, stupid browser crashed on me...

Anyway, sucks that the connections are rough to reach. I would spend some time figuring out why you really aren't getting any HD out of your Micaa box, because it really isn't delivering right now.

You can get a really good component video switcher off of eBay for next to nothing. Stuff that used to cost hundreds of bucks when component video was really popular sells for 20 bucks or so.

Something like this:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Zektor-HDS4-Component-Audio-Video-switch-with-optical-audio-HDS-4-HDS-4-/400506471520?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5d400bc460

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post #13 of 20 Old 06-14-2013, 03:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Geez, stupid browser crashed on me...
I would spend some time figuring out why you really aren't getting any HD out of your Micaa box, because it really isn't delivering right now.

I have tried every thing I can think of to get the HDMI to work from the Micaa player. I switch the TV to imput 6 (that's the DVI input) then I plug in my hdmi/dvi cable from the Dish player to the Micaa player, turn it on and no menu. Can't think of anything else to try.
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post #14 of 20 Old 06-14-2013, 09:49 PM
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I'm sorry, I'm not suggesting you keep messing with the HDMI connection - that's a cause I would give up on right now.

You have to get your component video connection working to your TV. The only way I would expect this to work would be with 480i, 480p, or 1080i video. Not 1080p or 720p I expect. I would set the component video output to 1080i and check the HD quality that way.

Do not spend to much more time on HDMI/DVI with that box... at least for now.

Really, just see if you can get component HD video going.

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post #15 of 20 Old 06-14-2013, 11:29 PM
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Have you confirmed the Media Player HDMI Out is working - try booking it to a different Display.

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Here are some of the specs on your TV. Notice that they emphasize 720p as an input. So I would start there with the component video inputs.

But, I thought in the first append you said you had component video working ("..MICAA works fine using the component outputs."). So, if DVI isn't possible and component video works, what is missing?


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post #17 of 20 Old 06-15-2013, 02:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by alk3997 View Post

Here are some of the specs on your TV. Notice that they emphasize 720p as an input. So I would start there with the component video inputs.

But, I thought in the first append you said you had component video working ("..MICAA works fine using the component outputs."). So, if DVI isn't possible and component video works, what is missing?

My TV does accept 1080i input. I misspoke when I said the Micaa works fine with component (should have been composite) outputs. My Micaa only has Hdmi and composite outputs and they can't be used together which is how I presently hook up my dish player using a hdmi/dvi cable and two audio cables. I have been trying to just get video from the Micaa using my hdmi/dvi cable. If that had worked I was hoping to get another hdmi/dvi cable with audio out to carry audio to my TV.


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I have not confirmed the HDMI output working as I have nothing to hook up it. Going to try to get my son to try it on his flat screen TV.
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post #18 of 20 Old 06-15-2013, 03:57 PM
 
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My TV does accept 1080i input. I misspoke when I said the Micaa works fine with component (should have been composite) outputs. My Micaa only has Hdmi and composite outputs and they can't be used together which is how I presently hook up my dish player using a hdmi/dvi cable and two audio cables. I have been trying to just get video from the Micaa using my hdmi/dvi cable. If that had worked I was hoping to get another hdmi/dvi cable with audio out to carry audio to my TV.

...

OK, now we are getting somewhere. Both the MICCA MPLAY and the MICCA MPLAY-HD allow component video output through a separate cable. The descriptions for the MPLAY and the MPLAY-HD from their catalog are:

"Micca MPLAY 3.5mm AV and Component - A replacement set of 3.5mm AV and component video cables that were originally supplied with the player."

"Micca MPLAY-HD 3.5mm Component - A 3.5mm component cable that is optional for this player."

So, to solve your problem get the component video cable that goes with your version of the MICCA. If you have an MPLAY, then you should already have the cable. Also digital audio output is available with a coax S/PDIF cable.
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post #19 of 20 Old 06-16-2013, 08:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by alk3997 View Post

OK, now we are getting somewhere. Both the MICCA MPLAY and the MICCA MPLAY-HD allow component video output through a separate cable. The descriptions for the MPLAY and the MPLAY-HD from their catalog are:

"Micca MPLAY 3.5mm AV and Component - A replacement set of 3.5mm AV and component video cables that were originally supplied with the player."

"Micca MPLAY-HD 3.5mm Component - A 3.5mm component cable that is optional for this player."

So, to solve your problem get the component video cable that goes with your version of the MICCA. If you have an MPLAY, then you should already have the cable. Also digital audio output is available with a coax S/PDIF cable.

I had the Micca speck which doesn't have the component cable option. I am returning it and ordering the Micca Mplay-HD. It shows only a HDMI 1.3, CVBS/Composite outlet for video. I haven't been able to confirm that it comes with the component cable or not, but they have a separate cable available if necessary, which I assume goes into the CVBS outlet.
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post #20 of 20 Old 06-17-2013, 12:13 PM
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That's a good decision. No matter what you end up buying, until you replace that TV, you will want to look for devices which support component video output. I run most of my home TVs using component video right now (until prices drop) and I have great quality using 2 media players (Dune HD), along with two cable boxes. Does a great job of delivering HD to my home displays.

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