Possible handshaking issue? Fixes? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 9 Old 06-17-2013, 04:48 PM - Thread Starter
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So here is what I have set up.

TV -> Pioneer VSX23TXH
VSX23TXH -> Monoprice powered HDMI splitter
HDMI splitter -> Panasonic 720p Plasma
HDMI splitter -> Sharp 1080p Plasma

Here is my problem. With the resolution on the TV set to 1080p I only receive a picture on the Panny. With the resolution set to 720p I get a picture on both TVs.

However if I take the HMDI splitter out and have the Sharp plugged directly into the VSX23TXH I get a picture irrespective of resolution settings.

At first I thought the HDMI splitter was transcoding the signal creating problem for the higher resolution set, so I reintroduced the HDMI splitter but left the Panny unplugged and the same problem occurs.

Is this a handshaking problem for the resolution? Any way around it other than a different TV? Any way to know in advance if a particular TV would work other than buying one and trying it until I find one that does?

Thanks in advance.
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post #2 of 9 Old 06-18-2013, 08:34 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crg914 View Post

So here is what I have set up.

TV -> Pioneer VSX23TXH
VSX23TXH -> Monoprice powered HDMI splitter
HDMI splitter -> Panasonic 720p Plasma
HDMI splitter -> Sharp 1080p Plasma

Here is my problem. With the resolution on the TV set to 1080p I only receive a picture on the Panny. With the resolution set to 720p I get a picture on both TVs.

However if I take the HMDI splitter out and have the Sharp plugged directly into the VSX23TXH I get a picture irrespective of resolution settings.

At first I thought the HDMI splitter was transcoding the signal creating problem for the higher resolution set, so I reintroduced the HDMI splitter but left the Panny unplugged and the same problem occurs.

Is this a handshaking problem for the resolution? Any way around it other than a different TV? Any way to know in advance if a particular TV would work other than buying one and trying it until I find one that does?

Thanks in advance.

Actually this is a lowest common denominator feature that is part of handshaking. So it isn't a problem but it is the way HDMI is designed to work.

You can find out more by searching on "lowest common denominator" in this forum or "HDMI lowest common denominator" in Google. Basically HDMI can only send one video and one audio stream at a time. The HDMI spec requires that the source send only signals compatible with all sinks (the destination devices such as your TV). The source receives a signal, called the EDID, from the sinks which tells the source what capabilities each TV (the sinks) has. The source then sends a signal out that is compatible.

In your setup 720p is compatible with both TVs. 1080p is not. So, you're stuck at 720p unless you purchase a new TV that has 1080p capabilities.

BTW, distribution amps (splitters) do not transcode the video signal. Even if they did you would not have one signal output at 720p and another 1080p.

When you are thinking about this, just remember the source can only send one video signal at a time. The same thing with your receiver. The splitter doesn't change the signal, so it's only sending out the video it got from the receiver.
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post #3 of 9 Old 06-18-2013, 10:04 AM
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Andy, actually there is still something funny. The OP indicates that his source (apple) is set to 1080p AND is being received by the Panny which only has display of 720P while the set that has 1080p capability gets nothing. You would think that if its a lowest common denominator, than the 1080p output would be somewhat totally "undeliverable" or at least delivered to the capable set.... not the other way around. I think that's what the OP is trying to understand.
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post #4 of 9 Old 06-18-2013, 04:44 PM
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Yeah, this is a heck of an issue, and I would likely blame the HDCP somewhere along the way as not liking the repeater in the mix... But, no idea why 720p is working and 1080p is not since all of your displays are 1080p compliant.

The most obvious thing to do is to try another splitter from a different manufacturer, or just a different model from the same manufacturer.

HDMI splitting, except with high end devices, seems to always be a crap shoot.

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post #5 of 9 Old 06-19-2013, 05:21 AM
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Keep in mind the actual resolution of any Display is not an indication of what signal formats it does/doesn’t support on its various Inputs.

The majority of pre ‘Full HD’ (1920x1080 pixel) Displays will not support a 1080p60/50/24 Input signal via HDMI.

Panasonic PDP – are you confirm on the PDP what format the Display is receiving from Apple TV when you are setting Apple TV to 1080p via the Distribution Amp - Apple TV or the AVR may be fooling you in terms of what you set it to and what it actually Outputs!

Combining the AVR + DA is an additional potential for problems – I’d try Apple TV > DA > your Displays and see what works.

Plugging/unplugging HDMI kit with the kit powered On or in Standby is never a great idea and apart from potentially damaging Input/output sockets can result in all sorts of resolution, audio and HDCP issues.

I would have thought setting the Apple TV to 1080i60 was likely the best ‘compromise’ when you wish to view it simultaneously on both Display devices.

Apple TV has always been a bit of a challenge when it comes to distributing it to multiple Display devices.

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post #6 of 9 Old 06-20-2013, 07:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by budwich View Post

Andy, actually there is still something funny. The OP indicates that his source (apple) is set to 1080p AND is being received by the Panny which only has display of 720P while the set that has 1080p capability gets nothing. You would think that if its a lowest common denominator, than the 1080p output would be somewhat totally "undeliverable" or at least delivered to the capable set.... not the other way around. I think that's what the OP is trying to understand.

Yes, this is exactly the part that confuses me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AV_Integrated View Post

Yeah, this is a heck of an issue, and I would likely blame the HDCP somewhere along the way as not liking the repeater in the mix... But, no idea why 720p is working and 1080p is not since all of your displays are 1080p compliant.

The most obvious thing to do is to try another splitter from a different manufacturer, or just a different model from the same manufacturer.

HDMI splitting, except with high end devices, seems to always be a crap shoot.

I was hoping to be able to figure out a resolution and then buy the appropriate equipment, as opposed to buying and returning splitters until I find one that works. If that's possible...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Fernand View Post

Keep in mind the actual resolution of any Display is not an indication of what signal formats it does/doesn’t support on its various Inputs.

The majority of pre ‘Full HD’ (1920x1080 pixel) Displays will not support a 1080p60/50/24 Input signal via HDMI.

Panasonic PDP – are you confirm on the PDP what format the Display is receiving from Apple TV when you are setting Apple TV to 1080p via the Distribution Amp - Apple TV or the AVR may be fooling you in terms of what you set it to and what it actually Outputs!

Combining the AVR + DA is an additional potential for problems – I’d try Apple TV > DA > your Displays and see what works.

Plugging/unplugging HDMI kit with the kit powered On or in Standby is never a great idea and apart from potentially damaging Input/output sockets can result in all sorts of resolution, audio and HDCP issues.

I would have thought setting the Apple TV to 1080i60 was likely the best ‘compromise’ when you wish to view it simultaneously on both Display devices.

Apple TV has always been a bit of a challenge when it comes to distributing it to multiple Display devices.

Joe

I'm not sure how to confirm on the Panny what resolution it is receiving. Insight on this? Also, the Pioneer AVR is the only gear between the TV and the TVs. No Distribution Amp in the loop. And I have tried TV -> AVR -> TV and without the splitter the 1080p panel receives the 1080p input from TV no problem. I don't believe 1080i is available on the TV. IIRC, options are 1080p60, 1080p50, 720p60, 720p50 and then a few other resolutions at 60 and 50 refresh rates.



Did some experimenting and further confirmed what I believe is an issue with the splitter. The Pioneer AVR has 2 HDMI outs on the back. The second was being used for a panel in another room, hence the need to split the signal from one output to go to the porch. So I unplugged the panel from the second output and plugged in the panel on the porch. Bingo. Without the splitter in the loop, both panels receive the display irrespective of the resolution settings on TV.

Thanks for the replies so far. Any other insight is surely appreciated.
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post #7 of 9 Old 06-20-2013, 08:02 AM
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for most tv's, you just hit the "display" or "info" button and usually the incoming resolution is identied in the top corner momentarily. Similarly, if you change from one input on the tv to another, when the TV "resync", it may normally display the incoming resolution.

Further, on your "new told info" about you setup, your setup is even more "complex" than you first described, as not only do you have a splitter but basically have a second "splitter" in your receiver which further causes implications in your efforts..... in HDMI land, all is not what it seems even if one "path" works.... as Andy points out, there is only one "fed" of signal that is being shared, in your case, we now know that it may be with up to THREE "streams". You probably need to go back and re-state exactly what equipment is being used along with the configuration to ensure everyone is on the same "foot". Further, just unplugging and plugging in HDMI components without following a "proper sequence" will leave you with "states" that may be "confusing" to both the user and the equipment involved. Others may chime in with further help but my guess is that things will work correctly and probably at 1080p IF the TV's are relatively new since most have "scaling" capabilities to handle most / all signals thrown at them.... even though their screen resolutions may differ.
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post #8 of 9 Old 06-22-2013, 07:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by budwich View Post

for most tv's, you just hit the "display" or "info" button and usually the incoming resolution is identied in the top corner momentarily. Similarly, if you change from one input on the tv to another, when the TV "resync", it may normally display the incoming resolution.

Further, on your "new told info" about you setup, your setup is even more "complex" than you first described, as not only do you have a splitter but basically have a second "splitter" in your receiver which further causes implications in your efforts..... in HDMI land, all is not what it seems even if one "path" works.... as Andy points out, there is only one "fed" of signal that is being shared, in your case, we now know that it may be with up to THREE "streams". You probably need to go back and re-state exactly what equipment is being used along with the configuration to ensure everyone is on the same "foot". Further, just unplugging and plugging in HDMI components without following a "proper sequence" will leave you with "states" that may be "confusing" to both the user and the equipment involved. Others may chime in with further help but my guess is that things will work correctly and probably at 1080p IF the TV's are relatively new since most have "scaling" capabilities to handle most / all signals thrown at them.... even though their screen resolutions may differ.

Well everything is hooked up as identified in the first post. The only additional information would be the other set plugged into the other HDMI out on the Pioneer AVR. I didn't think that would be relevant to this question though as the problem occurs whether that is plugged in or not.

Thanks for the input.
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post #9 of 9 Old 06-26-2013, 01:57 PM
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Our Pioneer Elite is connected to a Panasonic plasma with a 40-foot Blue Jeans HDMI cable. Frequently the HDMI indicator on the receiver will flicker but not light, and the TV will show no picture. But after switching to another source then back to TV, we always get the video. It's a bit bothersome but we live with it.

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