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post #1 of 28 Old 07-15-2013, 05:14 PM - Thread Starter
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First I'll start off by explaining my setup. I have a satellite receiver, PS3, media server and apple TV connected to a Monoprice 4X4 true matrix powered HDMI switch. I have 3 TV`s and 1 projector connected to the switch. One 25 ft HDMI cable, one 50 ft HDMI cable and two 100ft cables. These are Monoprice cables with built in equalizer. This setup has worked flawlessly for the past year. A few nights ago I was changing a light switch with the power still on and touched 2 wires together and it tripped the breaker. All my TV`s were off at the moment but one was plugged into the same circuit as the lights I was working on. After I was done I turned on the TV and had no picture or sound. I did some playing around and here is what I found. Port 1 on the HDMI switch will not work at all. Port 2 and 3 work OK and port 4 works with certain components on certain TV`s. Could I have fried the switch?

I'm also having some other issues. I could no longer get picture and sound on the TV that was on the same circuit as the one I tripped(master bedroom TV). I tried plugging in my Apple TV directly to this TV and it works so it"s not the TV. Brought the master bedroom TV to the other room that the TV was working and used that cable but got nothing. Took another TV to the master bedroom and plugged it in the HDMI cable and get nothing. Could this have fried my HDMI cables. One seems to not work at all but the other one works on 1 TV but not the other. Hope someone can help me figure this out. Thanks in advance.
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post #2 of 28 Old 07-15-2013, 07:16 PM
 
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Sure, you could have done a lot of things with a short circuit. Luckily you are OK since playing with wires while the circuit is on is a good way to hurt yourself.

One thing you should check before replacing things are the menu selections on the TV that isn't working. Since you are using HDMI standard speed cables such as this, http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10240&cs_id=1024006&p_id=7698&seq=1&format=2, if you changed your TVs resolution settings to 1080p or enabled some options that weren't enabled before, that *might* cause something to not work. So I would first check the menu settings and then if that didn't work (or you didn't see anything unusual), I'd do a master reset on that TV. Other than having to reset the menu settings, a master reset doesn't cost anything. I'd also unplug the switch for a little while and see if that had any effect.

If none of that worked, the next step would be to try all components and the TV with a short known-to-be-working cable. You've already done some of that. Then build-up components again (one source added, then check. One TV added, then check). Until you found the problem. Use the short cable for verifying then change to the longer cable. Once you're done you'll have a matrix of what works and what doesn't. At that point, you should be able to see what is wrong.

Hopefully you'll be able to do a simple reset and not have to go through more troubleshooting.
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post #3 of 28 Old 07-16-2013, 03:52 PM - Thread Starter
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OK I did a little bit more testing. Connected 1 by 1 the media server, satellite receiver and apple TV to the 100ft cables and tried both TV's on the other end. 1 cable didn't produce picture or sound on both TV's with any of the 3 sources. Also noticed that the little red light on the end of this cable is not as bright. The other cable had picture and sound on both TV's and satellite on 1 TV but not the other. Is it safe to assume that I need 2 new cables or is there anything else I can try.
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post #4 of 28 Old 07-16-2013, 05:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Another update. Brought my bedroom TV in the living-room and plugged it in the HDMI cable but will not display satellite receiver signal. Does this even make sens that 1 TV will display media server and apple TV but not satellite receiver and satellite receiver will display on all other TV's. Look's to me like I have 2 problems. 1 cable that is bad and 1 TV that the HDMI is bad. Can the TV be fixed.
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post #5 of 28 Old 07-17-2013, 07:10 AM
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Today most sets have multiple HDMI inputs, I know this sounds simple but have you check out by using other HDMI inputs, one could be bad and the others ok. Also there may be a fuse or breaker in the circuit that can be reset or replaced. I had a problem with the inputs on an older LCD some years back and the manufacture sent a module that I replaced, that is the way all of them are now just plug and play. Have you tried other input like the component input or run of the air to see if the set works on something other then HDMI. One other thing it's not a good idea to run anything on a lighting / switched circuit, so if you can keep all electronics on the 20 amp wall outlets.
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post #6 of 28 Old 07-17-2013, 07:15 AM - Thread Starter
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This is an older model and only has 1 HDMI input on the back. I didn't try component but I tried coax and it works. The TV is plugged into a wall plug but when the house was wired the wired the plugs and lights of the bedroom to the same breaker.
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post #7 of 28 Old 07-17-2013, 07:54 AM
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Is it possible your "once working tv" no longer likes 1080i signalling.... what signal res are you outputting from the sat receiver???
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post #8 of 28 Old 07-17-2013, 07:57 AM - Thread Starter
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I had it 720p and I also tried 480p. Didn't try 1080i but I will tonight just to see.
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post #9 of 28 Old 07-17-2013, 08:20 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freeon View Post

I had it 720p and I also tried 480p. Didn't try 1080i but I will tonight just to see.

I wanted to take the time to really review what you have written since you have a lot of variables.

First, I don't believe in multiple problems (odds aren't good) although one problem that causes multiple symptoms is possible.

You've had two TVs show a problem with satellite input only. The other symptom is that one TV has a problem with all inputs when using one cable but not the other.

Are there any other problems I've missed?

In the future, can you consistently label the TVs and cables? If you go back to your descriptions you'll see towards the end of each description you start by talking about a specific cable and then towards the end just talk about a cable. Same with the TVs. It makes it difficult to follow. If the TVs are different brands, that would be a good way to differentiate between the TVs.

Having said that, I think we have three possible areas - the satellite receiver, one of the TVs and one of the cables. What would be helpful is to generate a list of the following:

1) Using the shortest HDMI cable you can find (6' - 10' High Speed cable would be perfect) - which TVs does the satellite receiver work with?
2) Using only the two 100 foot HDMI cables and a single known good TV and the PS3, which cables work between the PS3 and the TV? Then try all of your other HDMI cables, one at a time.
3) Using the shortest HDMI cable you can find and the PS3, which TVs work with this configuration?

Please again, label the TVs and cables in some way that we know which one is which. The goal above is to try to eliminate multiple variable changes in each test.

If you run these three tests, I think we can pinpoint the actual problem.
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post #10 of 28 Old 07-17-2013, 03:11 PM - Thread Starter
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I can understand how my previous post could be confusing. I did a number of other test including some above. I should be able to explain it better now.

I only have 1 TV that is giving problems so I took 2 different 6 foot known to work HDMI cables and connected directly to the receiver and I get nothing on the TV. I tried the 2 same cables on the same TV connected to the PS3 and it works fine. Also connected tried coax and component from receiver to that same TV and it works fine. In short every possible combination I tried with that TV worked except satellite receiver via HDMI.

As for the cables. They appear to all be working properly except 1 of the 100ft cables. This one will not display any source on any TV.

If this is not clear or there is other test I can preform let me know.
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post #11 of 28 Old 07-17-2013, 03:26 PM
 
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That explanation makes sense to me.

So, if we throw out the one 100 foot cable that isn't working, then the only failed setup is the satellite receiver HDMI output to the 1 TV HDMI input. That TV works with the PS3 over HDMI. The satellite works on the other TVs over HDMI. Please make sure I got that right.

Assuming that is all correct, I'm leaning towards the satellite receiver as a source of the problem. However, before going towards that explanation, have you reset both the TV and the satellite receiver? The satellite receiver should be as simple as unplugging from the AC. The TV may require a reset based on its owners manual.

I think it had been suggested before that you try different resolutions on the satellite receiver. That's a good idea.

Norrowing down the variables really helped!
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post #12 of 28 Old 07-17-2013, 03:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Yes you got it right. I did a master reset on the TV and had to unplug the receiver to bring it to my TV. I also tried all 3 different resolution available on the receiver. Why do you point towards the receiver if it works will other tv.
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post #13 of 28 Old 07-17-2013, 04:44 PM
 
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The answer to your question is the TV works with all other sources. So, it's either the TV having an issue but only with the satellite receiver or the satellite receiver having an issue only with that one TV. Not sure, but I've found satellite receivers to be more fragile than LCD TVs but, you're right, anything could happen. You're sure that all of the other 3 sources works properly with that TV?
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post #14 of 28 Old 07-17-2013, 04:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Not sure if it makes a difference but it's not a LCD it's a plasma. I was able to get all other 3 sources work with that TV using the 100ft cable that still works. Is there a way to test the signal strength coming out of the receiver.
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post #15 of 28 Old 07-17-2013, 05:03 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freeon View Post

Not sure if it makes a difference but it's not a LCD it's a plasma. I was able to get all other 3 sources work with that TV using the 100ft cable that still works. Is there a way to test the signal strength coming out of the receiver.

No, without special test equipment. I believe there is a whole thread devoted to the concept on this forum.

Are you sure the satellite TV isn't set to 1080p? If so, disable 1080p and leave 1080i/720p only. Also make sure Deep Color is set to disable on the TV (I don't think Deep Color is an option on satellite receivers).

It's like we're missing one clue...
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post #16 of 28 Old 07-17-2013, 05:24 PM - Thread Starter
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The particular receiver that I have doesn't support 1080p only 1080i/720p. I went true the whole menu on the TV and didn't see anything about deep colour.
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post #17 of 28 Old 07-18-2013, 05:47 AM
 
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Well, I suspect the only way to further troubleshoot is to try replacements (which you kind of already did with the TVs). So, I think the next step is to see if you can try a replacement satellite dish (along with the replacing the damaged 100' cable). Hopefully you can borrow another satellite receiver or find a spare to just test with.

It's basically that the satellite receiver doesn't work with one TV but works with every other TV. Yet the TV works with all sources except for the satellite receiver. The test cable is a short-distance known-working cable and everything is running at 1080i/720p (HDMI standard speed). Without another clue as to what is going on, it's basically a 50-50 roll of the dice with the satellite receiver (hopefully) being easier to try a temporary replacement than the TV.
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post #18 of 28 Old 07-18-2013, 06:25 AM
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what model of tv and sat receiver are you dealing with? further, leave the TV unplugged for a "while".... "long while" as in days... :-) Perhaps it will give everything a chance to "discharge" from your "wall switch experiment"... :-) I know of a friend who thought he lost his "weeks old" panny plasma a few years ago in terms of HDMI (he had "imported" it so returning wasn't an easy option). He tried everything from resetting to recabling to swearing to just running with vga (worked ok but was extra cabling hassle).... :-) Anyways, he left it unplugged for a "long while" just because they didn't have any need for it for a period. Turned it on one day and for the heck of it, tried the hdmi input again.... low and behold it was fully functional. Not sure why but maybe it gives you some hope. Good luck.

Somewhat related, Bell expressvu has been rolling out changes to their receivers (they say it related to their epg but who knows what else), and my mostly stable HD receiver has now become a bit more "shaky" in terms of HDMI. My layout is very "unstraightforward" so I am somewhat blaming the layout... however, I am not sure why the software update on the box would now "expose" a working system "more".... of course, its a relatively complex comms system and timings / integrity of the signalling is important. It might only take a "weaken capacitor" or such to kick you over. Me, I am blaming my receiver... :-)
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post #19 of 28 Old 07-18-2013, 07:24 AM - Thread Starter
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My TV is a Panasonic TH-42px50. My receiver is Bell Expressvu HD PVR. model 9241. I never use this TV on the weekends so I will unplug tonight and leave it until Sunday night. Hope it works.
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post #20 of 28 Old 07-23-2013, 05:51 AM
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Just a bit of a side note. I have found that for my setup (bell expressvu, matrix hdmi switch, receiver - dual hdmi outputs - TV / projector) that for some reason, turning off the "auto epg update" (after which the sat receiver goes to sleep / turns off), allows the over all setup more stability in terms of flashing / momentary blank screens. Not sure why but during the recently software update, after I decided to turn that "feature" on, the "instability" was signficant. Maybe just an issue with the sat box in terms of its hardware "stability" (ie. things like clocking, etc). Hope your TV "healed" itself.
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post #21 of 28 Old 07-27-2013, 09:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by budwich View Post

what model of tv and sat receiver are you dealing with? further, leave the TV unplugged for a "while".... "long while" as in days... :-) Perhaps it will give everything a chance to "discharge" from your "wall switch experiment"... :-) I know of a friend who thought he lost his "weeks old" panny plasma a few years ago in terms of HDMI (he had "imported" it so returning wasn't an easy option). He tried everything from resetting to recabling to swearing to just running with vga (worked ok but was extra cabling hassle).... :-) Anyways, he left it unplugged for a "long while" just because they didn't have any need for it for a period. Turned it on one day and for the heck of it, tried the hdmi input again.... low and behold it was fully functional. Not sure why but maybe it gives you some hope. Good luck.

Somewhat related, Bell expressvu has been rolling out changes to their receivers (they say it related to their epg but who knows what else), and my mostly stable HD receiver has now become a bit more "shaky" in terms of HDMI. My layout is very "unstraightforward" so I am somewhat blaming the layout... however, I am not sure why the software update on the box would now "expose" a working system "more".... of course, its a relatively complex comms system and timings / integrity of the signalling is important. It might only take a "weaken capacitor" or such to kick you over. Me, I am blaming my receiver... :-)

I unpluged the TV for 48 hours then tried short know to work HDMI cable from receiver to TV and still nothing.
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post #22 of 28 Old 07-27-2013, 04:10 PM
 
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I still think the next step is to try a different satellite dish receiver and see if that one change fixes the problem.
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post #23 of 28 Old 07-29-2013, 04:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Since my component input still work could I just use a HDMI to component cables. Will I still have same quality of picture. I still want to run true my HDMI switch so I can't run component direct from receiver. It also looks like one of my 100 ft HDMI cable needs to be replaced. If this setup works what would be best. 100 ft HDMI cable the HDMI to component. Or HDMI to component then 100 ft component cable.
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post #24 of 28 Old 07-29-2013, 04:37 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freeon View Post

Since my component input still work could I just use a HDMI to component cables. Will I still have same quality of picture. I still want to run true my HDMI switch so I can't run component direct from receiver. It also looks like one of my 100 ft HDMI cable needs to be replaced. If this setup works what would be best. 100 ft HDMI cable the HDMI to component. Or HDMI to component then 100 ft component cable.

If a component video to HDMI cable that worked existed, you sure could. But, they don't. HDMI converts from digital to analog in the TV. Component video converts from digital to analog in the source device. So component video sends an analog signal, while HDMI sends a digital signal. A cable will not convert digital to analog.

Component video and HDMI for satellite will give you the exact same picture. So, why would you want to convert anyway? Just stay component, switch through the receiver and you'll have less headaches. Don't forget to run audio, though.
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post #25 of 28 Old 07-30-2013, 11:30 AM - Thread Starter
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The reason I didn't want to run component directly from receiver to TV is because I wont be able to run true my HDMI matrix and have the ability to display any off my 4 video source at the push of a button.
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post #26 of 28 Old 07-30-2013, 12:08 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freeon View Post

The reason I didn't want to run component directly from receiver to TV is because I wont be able to run true my HDMI matrix and have the ability to display any off my 4 video source at the push of a button.

You're right you would need a second switch - a component switch to do that.

Your other choice would be to get a component to HDMI converter box. Something like this: http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=101&cp_id=10114&cs_id=1011406&p_id=5971&seq=1&format=2

Note that component to HDMI is allowed under the HDMI rules. HDMI to component is not allowed under the HDMI rules.
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post #27 of 28 Old 08-07-2013, 02:34 PM - Thread Starter
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A component to HDMI is no go to me if the HDMI input on the TV is no good. Are you saying that HDMI cannot be converted to component
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post #28 of 28 Old 08-07-2013, 05:22 PM
 
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I am saying it is against the HDMI adopters agreement to convert HDMI to any high definition analog format, including component. The intent of HDMI was to prevent copying and those who set the rules have decided that HD component video provides a way to copy the video signal.

If you really want to do it and don't mind spending extra, you can check the web for devices we try not to discuss here. Remember to make sure the adapter handles HDCP.
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