Sparkle Issues all of a sudden at 1080p/60 over key digital cat5 baluns - AVS Forum
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Old 07-24-2013, 02:50 PM - Thread Starter
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I have been running my setup for over 2 years (pioneed avr, ps3, cable box, jcv dla rs35 with 2 key digital cat5 baluns (33 feet of cat5 cables) projecting on a 110" Studiotek Screen without any issues. Last week the hdmi1 port on my projector stopped displaying an image. I switched to the hdmi2 port and still no signal. I then removed the baluns and moved all of the components closer to the projector and was able to receive an image from hdmi2 but still not hdmi1.

We then ran brand new key digital baluns but still no picture over the baluns. I then swapped my pioneer avr from my theater room to the first floor where I have the same receiver and by doing so was able to get a picture over the baluns back up in the theater room. The one receiver seemed to have an issue with signal strength from the output hdmi to the baluns. However, now at 1080p/60 the picture has sparkles. 1080p/24 is normal. Any suggestions on what to do? Key digital claims 1080p/60 up to 60 feet and this only 33 feet.

Thanks in advance.

Ryan

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Old 07-24-2013, 03:03 PM
 
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Sounds like something in the HDMI chain is generating bit errors. It may not be signal strength but instead a bad board.

Best way I know to track it down is to use a source close to the projector with an HDMI cable and see if that generates the error. If not, then back-up the same source and use the baluns. If no error then add the receiver.

I'm not sure you really ruled anything out with your test. Until you get to only two components (source and projector) to start with, it's hard to say what could be wrong.
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Old 07-24-2013, 03:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Ill give that a try. Everything worked within 6 feet of the projector off hdmi. Ill run the ps3 thru the balun instead of the avr then the balun and see what happens. I just figured signal issue since 1080/24 is fine but 60 is sparkling. Thanks for the advice.
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Old 07-24-2013, 03:55 PM
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Did you try using different CAT5 cables when you were testing the baluns?
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Old 07-24-2013, 03:57 PM
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I would be more suspecting the projector since it appears to have lost at least the first input (if I read your post correctly). My pure guess would be signal clocking / equalization at the incoming interface on your projector. Possibly if one portion of the interface is in "trouble", it causes trouble for the overall circuit.... again just a guess. It would sure be great if some of the manufacturers / repair centers would actually find the board level "component" failure and tell people (internet or otherwise) instead of just saying "bad board... we replaced it". I am sure that there are lots of failures that could be readily "repaired' (and maybe future prevented) especially inside the various forums and internet community.
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Old 07-24-2013, 04:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Next test is going to be different cat5 cables. I plan on sending off the projector as it is still under warranty but wanted to figure out if something else may be causing this issue. Thanks again for all of the quick input.
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Old 07-24-2013, 04:15 PM
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I’d power everything Off at the wall, reconfigure as per your original configuration and replace the Projector with a different Display device.

Assuming all works OK I'd be reluctant to connect the rest of my kit to a potentially faulty Projector just in case it takes anything else out!

Joe

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Old 07-31-2013, 12:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Sent in projector under warranty. Issue with the processor. Will recheck everything once it returns. Thanks again for the input.
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Old 08-08-2013, 07:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Projector returned with a new board. Both HDMI inputs are working now however the signal issue is still there at 1080p/60. Could it be an over amplification of the signal from the Key Digital Baluns? I think I will try a 35 ft HDMI cable and see if this resolves the issue. Almost at a roadblock here otherwise. Any suggesstions on a specific HDMI cable or any specific baluns or repeaters? Thanks!!
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Old 08-08-2013, 09:26 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tharza469 View Post

Projector returned with a new board. Both HDMI inputs are working now however the signal issue is still there at 1080p/60. Could it be an over amplification of the signal from the Key Digital Baluns? I think I will try a 35 ft HDMI cable and see if this resolves the issue. Almost at a roadblock here otherwise. Any suggesstions on a specific HDMI cable or any specific baluns or repeaters? Thanks!!

Yes, and it's a good time to go back to square one. Try single source to projector and see if that works. Then add the Pioneer and see if that works, then add the Key Digital back in again. Also remember to treat your HDMI cables as almost a component - the cable is another variable in the chain.

So, if possible, try moving a source close to the projector and then use a short cable. If that works, your odds are really good the projector and the source aren't the problem. Then try the longer cable with the same setup. Remember that any passive HDMI cable over 25 feet isn't going to be a High Speed cable, so you won't know if a longer cable really can support the bandwidth needed for 1080p/60 (although many can).

In other words the best method for troubleshooting a complex problem like you have is to make it a simpler problem.

Hope that helps (and I know from experience that it is time consuming).
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Old 08-08-2013, 09:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the reply!! The PS3 is my only source that will output 1080p/60 (cable box will do 1080i and the receiver is basically a pass through). I will try what you said and see if I can narrow down the issue running straight off the ps3 with a shorter cable then backing it up from there and adding in the receiver, baluns, etc. I am hoping to not have to run an HDMI up through the ceiling as my theater is on the 3rd floor and it's pretty hot above the ceiling but hopefully we can figure this issue out. Thanks again
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Old 08-08-2013, 10:08 AM
 
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The good news is that the PS3 will generate a signal even without being connected to the Internet. So, that will hopefull make it a bit easier. Remember to double-check your resolution using the projector - just verify that you really are receiving 1080p/60.

Good luck!
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Old 08-08-2013, 08:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Ps3 directly to projector via hdmi, projector shows 1080/60 no sparkle. My Friend is bringing a 35 ft hdmi over this weekend along with different cat5 or ct6 cables to test. As of right now i only get the sparkles when running he baluns. Either straight off the ps3 to the baluns to the projector or ps3 to receiver to baluns to projector. My theater guy says key digital is top notch and thinks its possible over amplification. Should I try and remove the baluns from my setup altogether and run hdmi if it eliminates the sparkle or should I try a different balun setup such as ethereal? On a side note my current cat5 cables are not shielded. Is that an issue? Or I can switch my ps3 output to 1080i and let my receiver up convert to 1080p/24 for movies and leave the main ps3 Xmb homepage and certain games 1080i/60
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Old 08-09-2013, 09:27 AM
 
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That's good data. Have you tried this?

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1401078/some-ps3-hdmi-difficulties-explained

It's only a bypass but it will lower your bitrate and could reduce/eliminate bit errors.
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Old 08-09-2013, 09:40 AM - Thread Starter
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I actually tried that last night when I was testing. Didn't help the sparkles. Thanks though for suggesting.
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Old 08-09-2013, 10:55 AM
 
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Interesting. So reducing the bandwidth did not help the sparkles. That makes me think that there is noise getting introduced into the system. This only happens with the Key Digital included. And, it only started happening recently when you had a projector problem.

You add all that up and it makes me think that the HDMI board (or system) board on the Key Digital is introducing the bit errors. It could be on the receive side of the cat 5 as well.

If it were just simple overmodulation, then I would have expected that to be true for the last two years as well.

The 35' HDMI cable will at least give you some more confidence in the rest of the system minus the Key Digital part.
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Old 08-09-2013, 09:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Would unshielded cat5 cables be a cause? We tried a new set of key digital baluns on the existing cat5 cables and it still sparkles.
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Old 08-10-2013, 09:53 AM
 
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A damaged cable could be a reason. Can you try a cat 6 cable?
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Old 08-10-2013, 06:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Yea I think my friend is bringing one over this weekend. Ill see how that does. He is thinking the 35' hdmi will be te best fix.
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Old 08-10-2013, 07:13 PM - Thread Starter
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So I tried turning off the deep color ouput again on my ps3 and this time I turned off the video converter on my avr and no sparkles!! Hoping this stays!
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Old 08-10-2013, 07:27 PM
 
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That probably means the video converter was upscaling the image somehow. Did you disable Deep Color on your TV (in addition to the PS3)?
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Old 08-10-2013, 07:59 PM - Thread Starter
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I looked and couldn't find an option to do so on my projector.
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