ARC TV and hdmi receiver not syncing properly - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 31 Old 08-11-2013, 07:30 PM - Thread Starter
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I have an lg 55lm6200 and just purchases a Pioneer VSX - 820-k receiver. I've hooked my cable box to the receiver's input using hdmi, and then used another hdmi cord to send the signal out to the tv.

I can see the video signal, but no sound comes out. I've tried turning ARC mode off and on using the tv settings, but to no avail.

I've tested the speakers/receiver using other devices and they work fine.

What am I doing wrong?
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post #2 of 31 Old 08-11-2013, 08:21 PM
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Did you setup the audio properly in the cable box to output via hdmi? You looked at the receiver's input setup to make sure it's set for hdmi (rather than optical or composite)? Could be an hdmi handshake issue of sorts, too. I used to have odd problems with my Pioneer receiver like that but more often the other way around, would get audio but not video, would have to turn tv and or avr off/on to reset.

ps If it's ARC audio sources from your tv, then just make sure the HDMI-CEC control is on in each unit

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post #4 of 31 Old 08-12-2013, 01:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post

Did you setup the audio properly in the cable box to output via hdmi? You looked at the receiver's input setup to make sure it's set for hdmi (rather than optical or composite)? Could be an hdmi handshake issue of sorts, too. I used to have odd problems with my Pioneer receiver like that but more often the other way around, would get audio but not video, would have to turn tv and or avr off/on to reset.

ps If it's ARC audio sources from your tv, then just make sure the HDMI-CEC control is on in each unit

Hi,

The hdmi is definitely pushing out audio because when I connect hdmi from STB to tv, the sound comes out fine.


I have no way to check the receiver setup because it'll only show an on screen display with a composite input on the tv, which I don't have on my set, but I'd assume if hdmi is hooked up it'd know that's how it should send audio.

Regarding your last sentence about the hdmi-cec being on for each unit, I don't know what that means. Can you explain? The only choice on my tv is toggle between ARC on or off, neither produces sound through the receiver.

Many of the reviews for this receiver say it supports ARC, but it seems that when customers asked Pioneer, they replied that it does not.

Assuming that's the case, how do I get my tv to pump audio out through the receiver. I mean, why would lg make a tv that is too advanced to pump audio through a late model receiver.

What are my options assuming this receiver doesn't have arc. I do not want to be hooking up a bunch of optical cables. I'd quickly run out of optical ins if I had to run one for every device I own. Basically, I want this to work as intended, STB to receiver, receiver to tv. Audio out of receiver, video out of tv.

Please advise.
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post #5 of 31 Old 08-12-2013, 01:21 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alk3997 View Post

Does the LG TV still produce audio with an HDMI source through the AVR? If so there is probably a setting in your AVR that is passing audio to your TV. You want to change that option so you indicate you want the AVR to produce sound. Many AVRs have that option for those who the TV to generate audio instead of the AVR.

ARC is only needed if you want the TV to act as an audio source for the AVR.

The way you have the system wired is correct.

Wired as discussed, STB to receiver, receiver to tv (all hdmi), produces NO SOUND from the tv or the receiver. Why would anyone want the tv to be producing sound if they had a receiver with HQ speakers hooked into the receiver? Wouldn't that defeat the purpose of hooking all the devices through the receiver using hdmi?

As I mentioned in the reply to the other responder, it seems that the receiver doesn't have ARC, even though all the reviews say it does. I don't want to run any additional cables (e.g optical audio for Each device), I just want all tv audio to come out of the AVR and attached speakers using the AVRs provided hdmi ports. The TV and receiver are both late model, and I can't understand why the receiver would have hdmi inputs and outputs if it can't run the audio. What would be the advantage of using an AVR if the hdmi ports only push video. You might as well just go directly from device to tv. So logic tells me that even without arc, there must be away for the receiver to pump out audio from the cable box and tv using just the hdmi setup I've described.

Thoughts?
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post #6 of 31 Old 08-12-2013, 04:44 AM
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Assuming you are hearing the Source audio via the AVR but not via the TV speakers you have to remember your Source may be able to ‘pump out’ both Video + 5.1 audio and Video + 2.0 audio via HDMI.

Video + 5.1 audio via HDMI may be ideal for your AVR but not so good if your TV only Supports Video + 2.0 Audio.

Your Source will default to Video + 2.0 when connected directly to the TV as the TV will ‘report’ that it only supports that signal format to the Source whereas the AVR will allow the Source to Output Video + 5.1 to the AVR but the AVR will then only ‘forward’ the Video portion of the signal to the TV.

If the AVR has an HDMI Standby ‘Passthru’ mode you will need to ‘toggle’ the Source into Video + 2.0 via HDMI to view and listen to the Source on the TV – one option being to leave the Source set to Video + 2.0 via HDMI and then use Optical or Coaxial for 5.1, that way you can ‘forward’ both Video and Audio via HDMI to the TV via the AVR.

If your TV has a ‘Component’ (3 RCA) Input connect the AVR Composite 1 x RCA (usually Yellow) to the Green RCA connector on the TV – that way you will see the AVR menu in B&W.

ARC – not convinced its supported on your AVR!

http://www.pioneer.eu/eur/products/archive/VSX-820-K/page.html

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post #7 of 31 Old 08-12-2013, 08:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Okay, not sure I completely understand your response.

My AVR clearly doesn't have ARC, but I still want to hear the audio solely through the AVR attached speakers. I only have two speakers, so I don't care if the tv downgrades to stereo.

Knowing that I don't have arc, I purchased an optical cable and ran it from the tv to the optical in on the AVR (all hdmi is still running through AVR first, then to tv). When I do this, the audio from the TV plays through the AVR speaker only when I'm using the smart tv functions, like Netflix.

When I switch to using my set top box, no sound. What gives?

I somewhat remedied the situation by hooking the optical cable from the stb to the AVR, which allowed sound to come through the AVR speakers, but now my Netflix will only play through the TV speakers, which is not what I want. I could buy a second optical cable, but that doesn't seem like a great fix. It'd use up the only AVR optical port left. What happens if I get a blu ray or another device?

Again, my goal is to have all devices, including the SMART tv function play through the AVR attached speakers. Why did hooking an optical cable from the tv to the AVR not allow this to happen.? I understand it will not give me 5.1 sound, but it only need stereo.

Fixes, please?
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post #8 of 31 Old 08-12-2013, 09:11 AM
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I have the opposite of you with my LG tv. My avr supports ARC but the LG doesn't. So, I have all of my devices connected to my avr via HDMI with a single HDMI cable going out to the LG. From the LG, I have an optical out going back to the avr. When I use my other devices, all audio is played thru the avr in what ever format is native to the source and the video is passed to the LG. The LG's speakers are always off. When I use the LG's internal ATSC tuner (for OTA tv), the 5.1 audio is pushed from the optical to the avr. The same would hold true if my LG was a SmartTV and I was using the built-in apps. All I have to do is tell my avr which input source I want to use (blu-ray, AppleTV2, LG tv, etc).
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post #9 of 31 Old 08-12-2013, 09:22 AM
 
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post #10 of 31 Old 08-12-2013, 09:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carterman32 View Post

I have an lg 55lm6200 and just purchases a Pioneer VSX - 820-k receiver. I've hooked my cable box to the receiver's input using hdmi, and then used another hdmi cord to send the signal out to the tv.

I can see the video signal, but no sound comes out. I've tried turning ARC mode off and on using the tv settings, but to no avail.

I've tested the speakers/receiver using other devices and they work fine.

What am I doing wrong?

Had to give this a little thought as to how it explain it.

There may be an audio out set point in the in the set top box or you could have a bad input on the AVR, or as simple as a bad cable. There is also a possibility that your AVR has a menu option that turns audio pass through off, I have that on my AVR and use on to attach wireless headphones to the set's with RCA cables and the sets onboard speakers work for times that I do not want surround sound. Sometimes we need to read all the owners manuals together to unfold rubrics cube.

and then there is this

The ACR out from the TV is for audio generated with the TV's tuner or in the case of smart TV's the onboard apps, not from a cable\ satellite box or any other outboard player. If you have an over the air antenna, I do, just incase the cable gets cut or someone shots down the satellite, and you switch inputs on the TV to the internal tuner, the ARC output from your TV would go live, your tuner would have a signal there to play. It would be the same for the optical out from the TV to the tuner. If you try an optical cable from your TV's out to the optical input on your AVR and do not switch the inputs on the TV, and then switch the input on the AVR to the optical input you well not get a signal because switching will turn the audio out put from the AVR off and look for an audio signal on the optical input that is not there. See it can be just a little confusing at times.

I think you are trying to get your system to do something it cant.

In all my TV's and the oldest is 3 years and they run off HDMI, there is a menu option for digital audio out that gives me a choice of dolby, that is the 5.1 or PCM output and this is the 2 channel stereo. This is the way the digital optical out is used with a sound bars and we use 2 systems like this. I had a setup with a 62inch DLP years ago, that the satellite box feed the HDMI signal into the TV set, and the AVR not having HDMI used digital optical for the audio from the satellite box. With the TV as the source switch it would pass the digital signal to the AVR unaltered and that included off air. I also used optical for the dvd and cd players to the AVR. With that setup I needed to have the audio from the source come to the TV over RCA audio cables to use the TV's speakers.
In my current set up I have an optical cable in the wall that can be used just in case that satellite goes down and the internet is lost at the same time, and I do not use ARC or CEC.

HDMI cut down the cables but with all the ACR, CRC and HDMI switching AVR's, came increased the confusion, and we are not even getting into lossy & loos less audio.
Hope that helps, it is not the way its plugged together is the way we think sometimes.
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post #12 of 31 Old 08-12-2013, 10:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alk3997 View Post

All very good and noteworthy items but the OP's Pioneer VSX - 820-k does not include ARC with its options. It also seems to discourage the use of the buil-in menu by providing remote functions to set options instead.

That makes it a little easer for the OP, I did not look up the sets specs but I was thinking just in a general sort of way.
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post #13 of 31 Old 08-12-2013, 02:50 PM
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Carterman32

TV Audio – lets separate that issue out from the other issue (audio from devices connected to the AVR via HDMI). If you are not hearing the TV Tuner via the AVR but are hearing the TV ‘Smart’ Services when using the Optical Out of the TV Into the AVR then something in the TV User Menu needs adjusted.

AVR – keep in mind your AVR can look for HDMI Audio, Optical Audio, Coaxial Audio or Stereo audio when you select an external source. (see ‘Signal Sel’ button on your AVR Remote).

I suspect when you are seeing an image on the TV but not hearing the audio from the HDMI Source selected on the AVR because you have the AVR set to look for the wrong audio (your note about adding an Optical cable between the STB and the AVR would indicate this) or because you are using an Optical Input on the AVR which is not ‘associated’ with the selected HDMI Source. (see Input Assign Menu of the AVR User Manual).

Some Pioneer AVR’s have a none too obvious system of pre ‘linked’ audio Inputs with HDMI Inputs.

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post #14 of 31 Old 08-12-2013, 08:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by alk3997 View Post

First of all, you probably need to back-up a step. Let me introduce the people here. We are all just "volunteers" who occasionally check-in to see if there are issues we can resolve. We are not paid to do this nor (for the most part) affiliated with any of the manufacturers and not affiliated with any manufacturer that you are using. If you want paid help, you should contact Pioneer but they will probably not know as much about HDMI as some of the people who are trying to help you here.

Now, HDMI can be tricky. It can be even more tricky when you can't see or change the menu items. Luckily the remote is designed to bypass the menu. See page 41:

"When DIGITAL (C1/O1/O2) or HDMI (H) is selected and the selected audio input is not provided, A (analog) is automatically selected."

HDMI is a digital signal. Both audio and video are included in the same data stream. There is no separate audio signal, in other words, with HDMI

So, the first question is whether you have selected HDMI (H) for audio using the remote control as specified on page 41? H should be selected when using the STB. When using the optical input from the TV, then O1 or O2 should be selected.

I don't have a remote control, so I'm not sure how to check this. Is there a way to do it without a remote?


I noted that you have been able to get audio out of the AVR with the optical cable. So, that indicates that the amplifer section is working properly.

To answer your other questions, I cannot see any indication that ARC is included. So, you would have to do exactly as you said - use an optical cable to go from the TV to the AVR for any audio generated by the TV.

That's correct. No ARC. I'm ok with using the optical cable from the TV to the AVR, but when I do that, it doesn't send the signal for the set top box to the AVR. The only way I can get the set top box to play through the AVR is hooking an optical cable directly between the STB and the AVR. I could remedy my issue with two optical cables, but what happens when I add more devices? There are only two optical inputs on the AVR, so ideally, I'd like to connect the devices through HDMI on the AVR, have HDMI go to the TV, and then have ONE optical cable send the signal for all those devices back to the AVR's optical input. So first, is that possible? And if it is, do I need the remote to make that happen?

The reason that some people would want to bypass the receiver audio is to allow the TV to be used by itself for both video and audio. This mostly applies for people who have a projector and a TV in the same room and only use the receiver with the projector.

Once I know the answer to the above question, it shouldn't take too long to pin down the cause of the problem.

On other thing you can try is to temporarily disconnect the HDMI TV output from the AVR and see (hear) if audio starts.
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post #15 of 31 Old 08-13-2013, 05:20 AM
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I guess the AVR User Manual is with the remote smile.gif

With the STB direct to the TV via HDMI do you get Sound via the TV speakers?

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post #16 of 31 Old 08-13-2013, 06:14 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carterman32 View Post


Not a thing we can do without the remote, I suspect. Check Pioneer for getting a replacement or see if you can find a universal remote that will work with the VSX-820.

The owner's manual is at:

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Unassigned-Content/Manuals/VSX-820+OPERATING+INSTRUCTIONS

Let us know when you have a working remote.
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post #17 of 31 Old 11-26-2013, 05:47 AM
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Did this ever get resolved?

I know I'm late to this party but there sure seemed to be a lot of verbiage for a seemingly simple hook-up. Probably a waste of time, but here's what I would have done:

* View the AVR as the hub for all sources.
* Connect each source to the AVR (keeping consistent to labeling, i.e.: STB using HDMI STB port, if labeled as such); TV connected to AVR via HDMI AND Optical.
* I forget if there was another source but if so, follow above logic.
* Then, use remote to control AVR Source. That should activate each source's video and audio as necessary, i.e.: if TV, video thru HDMI, audio thru Optical (I guess we're using Optical audio from TV for a good reason).

The only thing that's weird is a receiver that requires you to specify Optical vs. HDMI audio by source. Never seen that before.........Scott

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post #18 of 31 Old 01-19-2014, 04:28 PM
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Like many an ARC problem. LG Tv new w Hdmi Arc. Pioneer receiver also has arc but two years old. Question is this. Tv is connected to receiver by hdmi using receivers hdmi OUT slot to Tv hdmi 1 arc slot. Therefore when i go to put correct INPUT selection on receiver i have no idea what to put. Blue ray in blue ray input on receiver, chromecast in dvd input, cablebox in dvr/bdr. Video input open. So any Input that i set on receiver tells it to look somewhere else for audio. Also there is no hdmi marked arc on receiver. But salesman said it did have arc, menu (which can only be seen in tv screen w composite cables - unreal. Took awhile to find a link that explained that great design to me) allows me to turn on arc and arc turned on on tv. Zero problem W audio and picture from br, chrome n cable. Soooooo. My questions. 1. What input should receiver be set to. I know how to change audio input (but that seems to just be telling it what kind of signal to look for not where it will come from). 2. Part of Q 1 is what input should tvs arc hdmi go into on receiver. 3. Read about cec. No idea what that really is 4. Do some hdmis not carry arc? I DO have the control feature on both tv and receiver. But dont see any mention of cec. I DO have tv set to external/optical (they do not get turned on separately). Reason i got smart tv is to have one source only for all apps except for bray. Dying to bail on Time Warner completely. But tv worthless if can only listen to shows where it is the source through crummy tv speakers. Usually i can figure anything out but i am sooooo confused. Thanks to anyone who even tries to answer.
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post #19 of 31 Old 01-19-2014, 04:41 PM
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Also re prior post, my pioneer is VSX 821 K
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post #20 of 31 Old 01-19-2014, 07:20 PM
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I wouldn't use ARC at all and disable CEC (which can cause all kinds of issues). If you want to use your SmartApps thru your receiver, just set it up with an optical cable. The only real advantage of ARC is that you have one less cable to use (that cable being the optical cable). Then get a Harmony remote and program it so it will automatically select the correct input with a single click of a button.
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post #21 of 31 Old 01-20-2014, 08:10 AM
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Still confused. What input setting is receiver to be on even if i use optcable? Or is it supposed to override other inputs? Receiver Requires i set "input" for both "device" and "audio format-dig, analog, opt,etc" BUT there is no input setting on receiver for the hdmi port that carries the video from receiver to tv. Have opt cable attached and set to 01 on receiver which tells it what kind of audio signal but still the device input has to be something. And anytime it is br or cable or chrome the receiver wants to send audio only through thst device. Thank you so much for trying to help. Sorry i am so dense. Going to look for cec now and try to turn it off. D
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post #22 of 31 Old 01-20-2014, 08:27 AM
 
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It's been pointed out in a few other threads here that getting ARC to work with different manufacturers can be difficult. I believe it was Samsung and LG that both rolled their own interpretation of ARC.

With that in mind, I took a look at the Pioneer's owners manual. The first thing you should do is to go to "Setup Menu" --> "HDMI Menu" --> "Control" set to On and "ARC" set to On.

You only have one HDMI Output on the receiver, so that means it should be impossible not to connect the HDMI cable for ARC.

Make sure it is a newer (last 3-5 years) since a very few older cables had the ARC line not connected.

On the LG, you want to connect the HDMI cable to the port labeled ARC. Since you didn't provide the LG model number I can't see what the correct menu settings are for it.

Make sure to try ARC first with the TV's internal tuner. Many TVs do not send external audio over ARC.

If all that doesn't work, then Otto is correct, ARC isn't worth it if you can run a Toslink cable. ARC has the exact same audio capabilities as Toslink, so you don't lose anything with the optical cable.
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post #23 of 31 Old 01-20-2014, 06:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kikismudge View Post

Like many an ARC problem. LG Tv new w Hdmi Arc. Pioneer receiver also has arc but two years old. Question is this. Tv is connected to receiver by hdmi using receivers hdmi OUT slot to Tv hdmi 1 arc slot. Therefore when i go to put correct INPUT selection on receiver i have no idea what to put. Blue ray in blue ray input on receiver, chromecast in dvd input, cablebox in dvr/bdr. Video input open. So any Input that i set on receiver tells it to look somewhere else for audio. Also there is no hdmi marked arc on receiver. But salesman said it did have arc, menu (which can only be seen in tv screen w composite cables - unreal. Took awhile to find a link that explained that great design to me) allows me to turn on arc and arc turned on on tv. Zero problem W audio and picture from br, chrome n cable. Soooooo. My questions. 1. What input should receiver be set to. I know how to change audio input (but that seems to just be telling it what kind of signal to look for not where it will come from). 2. Part of Q 1 is what input should tvs arc hdmi go into on receiver. 3. Read about cec. No idea what that really is 4. Do some hdmis not carry arc? I DO have the control feature on both tv and receiver. But dont see any mention of cec. I DO have tv set to external/optical (they do not get turned on separately). Reason i got smart tv is to have one source only for all apps except for bray. Dying to bail on Time Warner completely. But tv worthless if can only listen to shows where it is the source through crummy tv speakers. Usually i can figure anything out but i am sooooo confused. Thanks to anyone who even tries to answer.
Have you followed the procedure in the manual? Do you have a manual for your receiver? Did you read and comprehend it? If you don't have one, it is available online. It's all well and good to figure things out on your own, but if you truly understand what ARC is and what it does, it is best to try to set it up the way the people who made the receiver suggest. See page 38-39 .
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post #24 of 31 Old 01-20-2014, 07:45 PM
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I can quote the manual to you. No one. No one at best buy can figure it out. Answer may be that it does not work between the pioneer and the lg. I have followed it exactly and also tried every possible permutation. And w arc turned off on both receiver and lg optical still does not work. I appreciate everyones help but there are quuestions imbedded in my first post that no one has addressed at all. But thanks for trying.
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post #25 of 31 Old 01-20-2014, 09:44 PM
 
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Originally Posted by kikismudge View Post

I can quote the manual to you. No one. No one at best buy can figure it out. Answer may be that it does not work between the pioneer and the lg. I have followed it exactly and also tried every possible permutation. And w arc turned off on both receiver and lg optical still does not work. I appreciate everyones help but there are quuestions imbedded in my first post that no one has addressed at all. But thanks for trying.

You just mentioned something I (at least) hadn't read before. You said the optical still does not work.

Take the optical cable out of the receiver and shine it against your hand (do not look directly into it). Does a red light reflection appear on your hand?

Have you tried optical with the TV's over-the-air tuner?

Also please confirm that the optical is going into one of the AVR's optical inputs. It would be very easy since it is a TV to accidentally to put the optical into an AVR output. Also confirm that you are using an optical output on the LG.

Once we have the optical working, I think we can quickly figure out what is going on with ARC.
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post #26 of 31 Old 01-21-2014, 05:31 AM
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Only one optical output on tv so thats correct. Yes opt red is on. Yes tried tuner input setting. But please know i so appreciate you guys trying to help me find something i havent tried. I have never been stumped by something like this before.
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post #27 of 31 Old 01-21-2014, 05:41 AM
 
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Originally Posted by kikismudge View Post

Only one optical output on tv so thats correct. Yes opt red is on. Yes tried tuner input setting. But please know i so appreciate you guys trying to help me find something i havent tried. I have never been stumped by something like this before.

That you tried the tuner input setting helps. Now just walk me through that. You saw a picture from the TV tuner. What audio did you get on the TV and on the AVR using the optical cable?

The result of that is key to troubleshooting the problem, so please be as specific as possible (include whether the station was stereo or AC3).
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post #28 of 31 Old 01-21-2014, 08:49 AM
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To be clear. LG has only one output of any kind and thats the optical. Everything is routed thru the receiver TO the TV except the usb which is of course on the LG and allows it to receive the wireless apps. They play with no problem and receive sound but it is only heard thru the tv speakers when they are turned on. When netflix is playing w TV as the source (not chromecast or blueray which are downstream so work fine if i go that way - just trying to simplify) and i have selected in sound output of TV EITHER "optical/hdmiARC" or "Optical Auto Sync" (which may be a feature that functions when the receiver is LG but the manual doesnt specify between the two types of tv audio outputs that each mention optical.) there is no sound. I have tried both w every conceivable Receiver input link. Receiver manual indicates that audio input 01 is for TV/SAT device input. So that would be the logical set up and is what techs at BestBuy say is correct. But that said i have tried all other possible device input settings to see if i can get sound). Soooooo. When TV on smart tv showing youtube or netflix or hbogo AND receiver on Tuner (and external speakers turned on on TV) there is no sound. Now...even w opt cable disconnected i get zero sound from Tuner setting on receiver. Is this what youre getting at. I have never once used the tuner to listen to radio. Not even sure it has a built in antennae. Will check manual when back home. Tuner input on receiver IS preset to look to opt cable 01 (audio input). TV/SAT input is supposed to be linked to opt cable but when its selected AND opt cable IS attached it sees nothing and reverts to "A" as its source meaning analog. If it doesnt sense a feed from opt it auto shifts to A. Thx again. No thats longwinded but also know how hard it is to disgnose a problem remotely.
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post #29 of 31 Old 01-21-2014, 09:38 AM
 
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No...No...Watch the TV. Set the tuner inside the TV to an over the air channel (such as 12-1 or 2-1 or NBC or ABC). Do you hear any sound on the LG? Using the Toslink output from the TV to the AVR, do you hear any sound from the TV on the AVR when watching 12-1, 2-1, NBC or ABC on the TV? Does the AVR indicate that the signal is Dolby Digital or PCM?
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post #30 of 31 Old 01-21-2014, 01:37 PM
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"When TV on smart tv showing youtube or netflix or hbogo AND receiver on Tuner" The receiver on tuner means that you are trying to listen to RADIO. You need to place the receiver input display to TV\SAT when you want to watch TV and hear sound through the receiver. Use the INPUT SELECTOR to change to TV/SAT displayed as the receiver source. Be patient, handshakes and other things must happen for things to work. If, still nothing, try VIDEO1 Make sure ARC and Control are set as per pg.38-39 Model number of TV would be nice. Never, ever believe what the blue shirt says. Oh wait, they aren't on commission. Make sure that the setting in the receiver are as shown for ARC and Control. I still take exception that you have a manual as you said earlier "(which can only be seen in tv screen w composite cables - unreal. Took awhile to find a link that explained that great design to me) it's clearly stated on pg. 13. Good luck
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