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post #1 of 18 Old 08-17-2013, 07:39 PM - Thread Starter
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OK here goes: I have an older 3x1 HDMI switcher Ser#SW17079 which for a few years has had no problem switching an older Sony Bluray and a Direct TV HD DVR. 2 - 6ft HDMI cables from each source to switcher then a 35ft HDMI to a Runco cl420 720P projector. Purchased a Panasonic "Smart" Bluray - I just want Netflix in theater room - the projector cant detect, black screen.

So here is a rundown of solutions and discoveries:

I ran a 6ft HDMI from switcher to projector, no problem, detected both sources and can switch between sources with no issues. I can also run directly to the projector from the Bluray using the 35ft HDMI - not using the switcher - and the projector will detect the source.

I added the Gefen Super HDMI booster to the end of the 35ft run thinking the distance was the issue, no luck either.

So heres the kicker, I have an extra 45ft HDMI cable. I run the DTV HD DVR off the 35ft cable and the new bluray off the the 35 ft HDMI and into the switcher. I run a 6ft cable out to the projector and it works fine. So length of cable into the switch isn't the issue, its the length out of the switcher. The booster doesn't solve anything in my case.SO I can get a signal out of the switch no matter how log the incoming cables are as long as the output is much shorter.

So in summary, is the switcher the issue? Is it not passing through some info that the booster needs to extend the signal to 35ft?
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post #2 of 18 Old 08-17-2013, 09:11 PM
 
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No, the 35 foot cable is likely the problem. It's not an issue of not enough signal (everyone seems to think this). It's more that the square waves aren't square by the time the reach the end of the cable. So, by adding an amplifier all you do is increase the distortion making the situation worse. Adding to that is that some switchers don't repeat the signal but pass it on instead. So the length going into the switcher and out of it get combined.

Since you have a 720p projector, one thing you can try is to reduce the signal bandwidth so it's more compatible with the cable. You can try disabling Deep Color or reducing the signal to 720p out of the source. Since you have a 720p projector, changing all of the sources to 720p should actually solve the problem and shouldn't change the projector's visual output. Also disable HDMI CEC in the Panny - it's just one more option that your equipment may not understand.

If you were sending 1080p, the 35 foot cable is outside of the HDMI spec for a High Speed passive cable. In that case some options would be:

1) Replace with an active HDMI cable like a Redmere
2) Replace with Cat 6 cable
3) Attempt to re-equalize the output for the cable (there are some switchers that will do this)

However, before you do any of those try sending just 720p.
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post #3 of 18 Old 08-18-2013, 10:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks Andy, Appreciate the reply.

Still puzzling to me is I can run directly to the projector from the Panasonic bluray with a 45ft and also the 35ft HDMI cable. I do have a somewhat easy solution and that is run both long HDMI cables from the sources to the projector and then place the switch at the projector, that works, I tried it. A little inconvenient having the switch at the projector but it works. It just limits me if I wanted to add another source in my cabinet one day, HTPC, Playstation etc.

So tell me what I'm missing here, I can get the image displayed but it depends where the switch is located in the 35ft - 45ft run?? If you take the 45ft cable plus the 6ft out of the switch I have a 51ft run with no issues as long as the switch is at the end of the run.

Duane
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post #4 of 18 Old 08-18-2013, 12:01 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unclduey View Post

Thanks Andy, Appreciate the reply.

Still puzzling to me is I can run directly to the projector from the Panasonic bluray with a 45ft and also the 35ft HDMI cable. I do have a somewhat easy solution and that is run both long HDMI cables from the sources to the projector and then place the switch at the projector, that works, I tried it. A little inconvenient having the switch at the projector but it works. It just limits me if I wanted to add another source in my cabinet one day, HTPC, Playstation etc.

So tell me what I'm missing here, I can get the image displayed but it depends where the switch is located in the 35ft - 45ft run?? If you take the 45ft cable plus the 6ft out of the switch I have a 51ft run with no issues as long as the switch is at the end of the run.

Duane

It has to do with the cable equalization. It is quite possible that the switch doesn't provide any equalization while the Panasonic does. It could also be the ability of the chipset to pickup a damaged waveform. Without test equipment you'll probably never know why. But, I think changing everything to 720p should solve the problem - if not then I'll start to wonder about firmware and/or a damaged or crimped cable.
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post #5 of 18 Old 08-18-2013, 02:13 PM - Thread Starter
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I changed the Panny to 720P, didn't work. So set up my switch on top of the projector and works fine from there. So I think I am going to run another HDMI tomorrow through attic and to the Sat box. Probably doesn't make a lot of sense to do it that way but it works. I still think its a switch issue but that's just from doing plain old troubleshooting.

Still open to other suggestions though!

Thanks again Andy,

Duane
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post #6 of 18 Old 08-18-2013, 07:55 PM
 
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That makes some sense but the lack of 720p working is confusing unless the cable has some damage.

Either way running another cable makes sense. If you think there is any chance at using 1080p in the future, you'll want to run a high speed cable. Check the Redmere cables at Monoprice for a 35' high speed cable.

Try post #29 in here: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1417609/monoprice-redmere-hdmi-cables
if you need more information about the two different standards for HDMI cables.
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post #7 of 18 Old 08-19-2013, 08:45 AM - Thread Starter
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I may order a cable anyways and install it as I have to make the crawl up there.

Going back to possible cable damage, I also replicated the same run with a brand new cable - 45ft - and same results. Placing the switch at the front of the line, no go with both cables. Placing switch at the end of the line is good with both cables. That's why am ruling out the cables being suspect.

Duane
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post #8 of 18 Old 08-19-2013, 09:17 AM
 
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I agree. So, that really leaves some type of cable equalization issue. How did you verify that you were sending 720p? The only thing I would trust is if the projector said it was receiving 720p with an on-screen display.

I'm kind-of stumped as to why 720p wouldn't work. That everything works with a 6 foot cable out of the switcher eliminated a firmware issue. 720p should be within the range of a 35' cable. What brand of cable is it and do you remember the gauge of cable?
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post #9 of 18 Old 08-19-2013, 11:27 AM - Thread Starter
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My projector does give me the resolution on screen 1280x720 60HZ.

The 35ft cable is a "Straight Wire" "SDMI" HDMI 1.3 24 AWG - per the identification on the cable
The 45ft cable is High Speed HDMI with Ethernet - no brand or AWG on the cable so highly suspect but it works

Duane
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post #10 of 18 Old 08-19-2013, 12:31 PM
 
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Well I can help with the cable identification.

I found the 35' cable on the Sound and Vision website:
"GO THE DISTANCE Any 1080p video coming through the SDMI will be crystal clear at lengths up to 16 feet. That extra range could come in handy when you need to separate your feuding Blu-ray Disc and HD DVD players."

They also state that the cable is available to 52.5 feet even though 1080p is only certified up to 16 feet. So, it's a Standard Speed cable from about 2007.

The other cable is more interesting. It says High Speed but it is 45 feet which means there is no way it can be High Speed. It's likely a cable that was certified for High Speed at a shorter distance (less than 25 ft) and then someone made a longer version and left the "High Speed" nomenclature on it. Of course that is no longer a High Speed cable.

The problem I'm having with the cables is that even a Standard Speed cable should be able to send 720p at 45 feet and longer. So it's some type of interaction between the switch and the cable doing this. I suspect if you replace either of the two (the switch or the cable) the problem will go away.
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post #11 of 18 Old 08-19-2013, 01:47 PM
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Is your 3x1 Switch Externally powered?

Where you using an External PSU with the ‘booster’ you installed and where in the signal path did you install the Booster?

Have you tried the BD player at 1080i60?

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post #12 of 18 Old 08-19-2013, 02:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alk3997 View Post

Well I can help with the cable identification.

I found the 35' cable on the Sound and Vision website:
"GO THE DISTANCE Any 1080p video coming through the SDMI will be crystal clear at lengths up to 16 feet. That extra range could come in handy when you need to separate your feuding Blu-ray Disc and HD DVD players."

They also state that the cable is available to 52.5 feet even though 1080p is only certified up to 16 feet. So, it's a Standard Speed cable from about 2007.

The other cable is more interesting. It says High Speed but it is 45 feet which means there is no way it can be High Speed. It's likely a cable that was certified for High Speed at a shorter distance (less than 25 ft) and then someone made a longer version and left the "High Speed" nomenclature on it. Of course that is no longer a High Speed cable.

The problem I'm having with the cables is that even a Standard Speed cable should be able to send 720p at 45 feet and longer. So it's some type of interaction between the switch and the cable doing this. I suspect if you replace either of the two (the switch or the cable) the problem will go away.

So the odds that both of my cables are an issue is a possibility I suppose.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Fernand View Post

Is your 3x1 Switch Externally powered?

Where you using an External PSU with the ‘booster’ you installed and where in the signal path did you install the Booster?

Have you tried the BD player at 1080i60? Joe

Hi Joe, Yes the booster is a http://www.gefen.com/kvm/ext-hdmi1.3-141sbp.jsp?prod_id=8161 and yes the 3x1 Gefen switcher is powered. The Booster was placed at the projector which is what the manufacturer requires. The booster is 35 ft away from the switch which then has a 6ft cable to the BD. The booster output cable is 3ft to PJ.

I have not tried 1080i but I will and get back to you. This is my Projector btw http://www.projectorcentral.com/Runco-Reflection_CL-420.htm

Duane
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post #13 of 18 Old 08-19-2013, 02:37 PM
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Cheers – pretty much any signal ‘booster’ will live close to the Sync and try and recover a signal which has dropped to the point where the Sync is failing to lock to it.

I take it you had a twiddle with the EQ on the Gefen unit – they sometimes have additional hidden ‘knobs’ under the hood! Another oddity being you sometime want to try them without the supplied PSU! (no rhyme nor reason to that one!!!).

Are you getting anything from the BD (via the Switch) when you have no disc in the player?

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post #14 of 18 Old 08-19-2013, 03:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Cheers- Yes I twiddled with the EQ and dipswitches in all positions. No luck with 1080i also. I haven't tried the BD with a disc yet, just the "smart" part, didn't think there was a difference but I suppose their could be.

Duane
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post #15 of 18 Old 08-19-2013, 03:56 PM
 
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The difference with the BD will be 1080p/60 is native with no disc and likely 1080p/24 is native with a disc. However, if you are converting to 720p there should actually be no difference on the output. I suppose you could also try 480p as well.
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post #16 of 18 Old 08-19-2013, 11:56 PM
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With no disc in the Player it will hopefully not be implementing HDCP – which should only kick in once you insert a copy-protected disc, sometimes with an older Switch you will see everything working fine until HDCP kicks in.

I suspect a New Switch will do the trick for you and allow you to retain your current cabling – otherwise your ‘old’ Switch may be a constant limitation.

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post #17 of 18 Old 08-20-2013, 07:26 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm thinking you are on the same page as me! Must be the Scottish in me which probably explains why I haven't ordered a new switch yet. Lol. I will update, thanks.

Duane
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post #18 of 18 Old 08-21-2013, 02:18 PM
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We maybe need a new ‘tight as’ range of budget conscious kit biggrin.gif

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