What 50+ foot HDMI cable should I use between a projector and blu-ray player? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 13 Old 09-16-2013, 03:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Last January, my university replaced the projector in one of the raked lecture halls (with a 24' diagonal screen), from a Epson PowerLite 8300i to a PowerLite Pro Z8000. This is the same room that the Anime Club use for Friday night meetings. Since the new projector is WUXGA (1980x1200), the club is going to replace the Panasonic DVD-A120 (S-Video) with a Oppo BDP-103 with their own budget.

We plan on connecting a HDMI cable directly form the projector to the 103. The projector is mounted on a drop ceiling and we are pretty sure that we can take a cable from the top of the 14 foot ceiling, down the side wall and through the 6 inch hole of the ceiling of the A/V closet . The ceiling run is 30', the wall drop to the hole is 6.5' and the run from the hole in the A/V closet to the rack is 4.5' horizontal and 2.5' vertical (total 43.5'). The receiver we have is a Sony STR-DE825 with only the center and L/R channels wired. There are surround speakers in the room, 3 to a side, but are not wired to the receiver.

My question is what type of cable should we use? I am leaning towards the 50 ft HDMI RedMere Cable (9172) from Monoprice, but should I look for something passive or even HDBaseT? We are also getting 2 8 inch 28AWG HDMI with Ethernet Port Saver (6061).



Rant:

Also, don't bother asking about the room controls. The school uses a Extron MLC206 but the IT department did not update it to work with the new projector. Most of the old codes work, but you can not switch over to the composite input anymore which has the VCR (JVC HR-S3600U) on it. They even messed up the EDID on the VGA port on the wall so you have to manually edit your computer's graphics card with PowerStrip to get full resolution instead of XGA (1024x768). I even open a ticket with them in February and they still have not fixed it. The club is going to use Epson's EasyMP Monitor Utility to control the projector with a Ethernet cable we will run next to the HDMI. Another problem that I have with IT is that when they installed the projector, they only used keystone correction and not lens shift. I took a ladder to the projector and fixed it with a friend the second time I was in the room.
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post #2 of 13 Old 09-16-2013, 03:59 PM
 
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The 50 foot Redmere looks like a good choice or the HDBaseT Cat 6 connection. Given the difficulty of rerunning a wire, I would not use a passive HDMI cable since it would not be certified for the speeds you'll run and will be bulky (difficult to work with). Since you are already planning to run a Cat 6 for Ethernet, wouldn't it make more sense to just use HDBaseT?

I have no idea how there could be an EDID associated with a VGA port. VGA ports are analog outputs which do not have EDIDs. The resolution is control by the video driver.
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post #3 of 13 Old 09-16-2013, 04:31 PM - Thread Starter
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I read that self powered HDBaseT are not reliable and I am reluctant to plug a wall wart into the ceiling, but I am not sure if that is not true or not. I am also worried about having to fix something on the projector end if the HDBaseT fails.

A VGA cable transmits its EDID on pin 12, It's how a computer know the name and the max resolution of your monitor or TV. The school is using RGBHV, which does not have a EDID and did not program the Extron to output one with the correct resolutions, so the computer gives you a "Generic Non-PnP Monitor" under Screen Resolution.
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post #4 of 13 Old 09-16-2013, 04:38 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan SCE View Post

I read that self powered HDBaseT are not reliable and I am reluctant to plug a wall wart into the ceiling, but I am not sure if that is not true or not. I am also worried about having to fix something on the projector end if the HDBaseT fails.

A VGA cable transmits its EDID on pin 12, It's how a computer know the name and the max resolution of your monitor or TV. The school is using RGBHV, which does not have a EDID and did not program the Extron to output one with the correct resolutions, so the computer gives you a "Generic Non-PnP Monitor" under Screen Resolution.

I think you'll find people will disagree with what you said about HDBaseT. There were other HDMI to cat 5, 5e, 6 converters that were not reliable, but those were not HDBaseT.

The VGA version is not an EDID. It's just three pins that can optionally be grounded to indicate on some cards what is connected. Not that Wikipedia is authoratative, but here's the quote,
Quote:
Originally Posted by wikipedia 
Some VGA connectors in personal computers provided a basic form of identification by connecting one, two or three pins to ground, but this coding was not standardized.

EDID is much more complex.
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post #5 of 13 Old 09-16-2013, 04:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alk3997 View Post

The VGA version is not an EDID. It's just three pins that can optionally be grounded to indicate on some cards what is connected. Not that Wikipedia is authoratative, but here's the quote,
EDID is much more complex.

That was before the EDID standard, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Display_Data_Channel#Physical_link.

This webpage gives more info on EDID, http://www.extron.com/company/article.aspx?id=uedid
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post #6 of 13 Old 09-16-2013, 05:53 PM
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You may well be able to do 1080p60 2d with a passive HDMI cable as long as you stay away from DeepColor.

There is no such thing as a self-powered HDBaseT extender. Most use two wall warts, one for the transmitter and one for the receiver. There are a few that use a single wall wart and power over HDBaseT to power to the receiver. Both kinds work fine.

Redmere is problematic. For some it seems to work fine at 50'. For others it seems to be unreliable.

No matter what you do, the image is probably going to suck because most universities don't calibrate their lecture hall projectors. But you are probably used to that already.
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post #7 of 13 Old 09-16-2013, 06:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Colm, do you have a recommendation on a specific HDBaseT equipment? The plan is to leave it there for 10+ years so something reliable, and upgradeable is key. Also, I thinking that price would be an upper limit of $200, but that's just a suggestion.

Also don't worry about calibration, that's was the second thing I did to the projector after fixing the keystoning. I also plan on recalibrate it after we setup the Oppo 103.

Edit: I don't know if it matters, but we are planing on using the HDMI input on the 103 to connect our laptops to the projector so we can display a 1980x1200 image.
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post #8 of 13 Old 09-17-2013, 08:03 AM
 
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If you haven't already, you might check with OPPO (they are very responsive to questions) to see if the BDP-103 will pass 1920x1200 or rescale it to 1920x1080. I don't know of any AVRs that would pass 1920x1200 but the BDP-103 is a different animal.

Upgradability is a tough one right now. You will not be able to get HDBaseT that will work with HDMI 2.0 since that isn't even available yet. However, the HDBaseT adapters that are available should indicate which HDMI 1.4a options it will work with. 3D is available on most (of not all) of them.
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post #9 of 13 Old 09-17-2013, 05:53 PM
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All HDBaseT extenders are based on the same chipsets. There are two flavors: HDBaseT and HDBaseT Lite. They differ in how far you can transmit a maximum resolution image. The cheapest extenders start around $200 like the one from monoprice. There have been reports here that the more expensive one perform better at the very longest lengths. But you aren't anywhere near that. That said, IIWY I would go with one that is marketed to the installer market like Octava. The extender shouldn't care that you are sending a WUXGA signal from a laptop. The projector supports it. That just leaves the question of what the Oppo will do with it.

AFAIK no extender is upgradable. You have to replace it if you want new capabilities.
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post #10 of 13 Old 09-19-2013, 06:59 PM
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For your room the first question which has to be asked is whether or not you are cabling through a plenum space as that will impact whatever cabling ends up being run.

We have regularly used 50' HDMI cables from Cables2Go which are plenum rated and work just fine. There are also HDMI stabilizers which help ensure that there are no issues.

For HD-Base-T, Aurora Multimedia has units which are powered at one end only and the other end doesn't require power, which is nice. Their HD-Base-T units are a medium build quality which means they are excellent for schools, but would not be recommended for true mission critical stuff. A higher quality unit might be found in products from PureLink which use a proprietary HDMI over single Cat extension that work phenomenally well and are dead on reliable in my experience.

Still, I find that HDMI at 50' is extremely reliable and is a good first choice due to price. If you are running through a plenum space you must get a plenum cable like this one...

http://www.cablestogo.com/product/41193

If you are not running through a plenum space, then this should work just fine...
http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10250&cs_id=1025002&p_id=6058&seq=1&format=2

But, then if you want a HD-Base-T solution, something from Aurora Multimedia may be what you want...
http://www.auroramultimedia.com/

Right on the main page of their site right now they are showing the HDMI & VGA combination model which accepts HDMI, VGA, component video, s-video, or composite video and converts it all to a single HD-Base-T cat-5e/6 wire and then HDMI into the display. So, you get rid of any need to switch inputs with that solution.

If the school is spending a bit to update things, they should go ahead and adjust the programming for a few hundred bucks or try to get it into the budget to take care of later... I know, good luck with that. If someone is up for doing it on their own, PM me.

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post #11 of 13 Old 09-20-2013, 04:34 AM
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HDBaseT is the way to go – there is a good chance that your next Projector will include an HDBaseT Receiver which would mean you simply plug the RJ45 straight to the Projector.

HDBaseT is ‘interoperable’ between brands so for now you could install a PoC (single PSU) Extender pair (such as our HD70STP-EX) and next time around you can potentially ‘retire’ the Receiver unit.

Our units include a ‘standby power mode – we detect when your Display has gone into Standby and go to a low power mode on the Rx and Tx, http://www.octavainc.com/HDMI_extender_HD70STPEX.html

Joe

PS For your VGA problem can’t you install an EDID emulator so that the Source ‘sees’ the resolution/refresh you want?

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post #12 of 13 Old 09-25-2013, 05:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Sorry for not replying sooner, but my main laptop suffered a meltdown last week, so I have been getting my travel laptop up and running as my main one.

When I mean upgradable is do we have to do another cable drop if we upgrade anything in the chain, the projector to 4K, etc.. I think the best plan for now is to use a Redmere cable and lay an extra Cat6 cable with it, so if we want to upgrade to HDBaseT, we have the option to do so.

AV_Integrated, The ceiling is not a plenum space, at least not on purpose. Also, the school proper is not paying for it, the school's Anime club is. The club will put the Oppo and other things in it's spring budget.

Joe Fernand, The Extron wall panel can do EDID emulation but I have no idea how to program the panel, plus the only way to program it is through a serial port.
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post #13 of 13 Old 09-26-2013, 01:07 PM
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Redmere cables can be tricky, but do tend to work most of the time. The Monoprice 22 AWG HDMI cable is perfect. I have yet to have a problem with a point to point connection of their 50' HDMI cable using any Blu-ray player on the market at 1080p w/3D. It's cheaper and works extremely well without electronics inside to have failures. $50.

I will be trying a 60' Redmere cable shortly with one of my setups, and while they tend to work very well, they also have electronics inside which have been known to fail after time, which would be a headache I wouldn't want to deal with in the long term.

Whatever you do, run the cat-6.

You will have to upgrade things as UHD starts rolling out if you want to use it, but I would expect that to be several years away before it becomes much more than an afterthought, and if you can easily retrofit wiring in place, then I wouldn't even bother with the cat-6 cabling right now.

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