REDMERE HDMI VERSION 2.0 - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 39 Old 11-30-2013, 05:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Monoprice has announced that it will begin selling version 2.0 HDMI Redmere cables on December 6, 2013.

http://www.monoprice.com/Category?c_id=102&cp_id=10255&cs_id=1025508
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post #2 of 39 Old 11-30-2013, 11:52 PM
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And the longest is 15'?
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post #3 of 39 Old 12-01-2013, 04:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Colm View Post

And the longest is 15'?

I guess this is just the beginning. When I had a chat session with monoprice, it seemed that they wanted to be the first to offer version 2.0.
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post #4 of 39 Old 12-04-2013, 06:13 PM - Thread Starter
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I received the Redmere version 2.0 cable and tried it out.
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post #5 of 39 Old 12-04-2013, 06:15 PM
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And?
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post #6 of 39 Old 12-04-2013, 06:21 PM
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How is it? I think the basic $3.54 is ok but could have a tighter fit on some things. Let us know.

I remember when products were built to last.
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post #7 of 39 Old 12-04-2013, 06:53 PM
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...I just bought a Panasonic ZT60 and bought silver plated, category two HDMI cables to run to it. Are these new cables just for 4K TV's or should I change my current cables to improve the picture?
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post #8 of 39 Old 12-05-2013, 12:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDPERSON View Post

I received the Redmere version 2.0 cable and tried it out.

What length and results? biggrin.gif
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post #9 of 39 Old 12-05-2013, 04:20 AM
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'or should I change my current cables to improve the picture?' - that would be a no!

HDMI cables don't 'improve' your sound or vision - a poor cable may introduce some very obvious speckles, flashes or no image. If what you have now is not showing any of those problems then stick with what you have.

HDMI cables are Standard or High Speed - High Speed being 'recommended' though not mandatory for Ultra HD/4K - and keep in mind that means a Source Outputting Ultra HD/4K not a Display which can 'up convert' 1080p to fill a higher resolution display.

http://www.hdmi.org/consumer/finding_right_cable.aspx

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post #10 of 39 Old 12-05-2013, 06:10 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krazy Train View Post

...I just bought a Panasonic ZT60 and bought silver plated, category two HDMI cables to run to it. Are these new cables just for 4K TV's or should I change my current cables to improve the picture?

There are only two types of HDMI cables. They are High Speed (also known as Category 2) cables and Standard Speed (also known as Category 1) cables. Each type has a few options. These two types of cables were defined by the HDMI Org to simplify cable selection for a consumer. Both types of cables have the same pinouts.

High Speed HDMI cables are capable of handling any HDMI signal currently used or planned. Standard Speed HDMI cable are guaranteed to be able to send 1080i and 720p images. Standard Speed cables may be able to handle high bandwidth signals such as 1080p/60, 1080p/24 2D or 1080p/24 3D, but it is not guaranteed. High Speed cables have passed tests to show that they can handle 1080p/60, 4K, etc.

http://www.hdmi.org/learningcenter/faq.aspx#49

The cable does not "know" what it is sending. It is a dumb cable. If only takes bits from one end of the cable to the other. The only thing you have to make sure is that the cable has enough bandwidth to send the signals you want without bit errors. Bit errors will show up as obvious screen defects such as lines, sparkles or screens that change to a solid color or even no picture at all. Bit errors do not cause loss of resolution or loss of contrast, color or anything else that is usually considered "picture quality".

So, for 1080p/24 3D or 1080p/60 2D you would want a High Speed HDMI cable and try to use ones that either provide the certificate online or have great user reviews, such as Monoprice or Blue Jean Cables or some of the others you'll find in this forum's archives. One warning is that some companies claim to have high speed cables that are not. Make sure you check reviews or see their certification. Sometimes they certify a shorter cable for high speed and then claim that longer cables are also covered. The longer cables are not. The maximum length for a certified passive High Speed cable is just over 25 feet. Look at a Redmere technology active cable or converting to Cat 6 for longer runs requiring a high speed HDMI cable.

(standard answer #1)
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post #11 of 39 Old 12-05-2013, 08:26 AM
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This is why I come here would never dream of going anywhere else... Thank you for the education gentlemen, it's very much appreciated
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post #12 of 39 Old 12-05-2013, 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by alk3997 View Post



(standard answer #1)

I think that's 6 so far for this year. wink.gif
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post #13 of 39 Old 12-05-2013, 03:16 PM
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Thx for the info, at this point I'm good with the Monoprice basic Ferrite cables.

Thanks again.

I remember when products were built to last.
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post #14 of 39 Old 12-05-2013, 04:49 PM
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^^^^ ferrite cables? You mean cables with the ferrite core around one end?
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post #15 of 39 Old 12-05-2013, 07:52 PM
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Right, my mistake. I'm not up on all the terms yet. Thanks for the correction.

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post #16 of 39 Old 12-05-2013, 09:44 PM
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I've never bothered with the ferrite cores because I'm not sure how truly useful they are. I just used certified high speed cable from MediaBridge and recently switched to the Redmere cables after some remodeling, mostly because of the thinness and flexibility of the cables.
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post #17 of 39 Old 12-06-2013, 04:39 AM - Thread Starter
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The Version 2.0 with Redmere Monoprice cables I purchased and use are 15ft. The picture quality is the same as a version 1.4b at the 6ft length which I have on another TV. The sound however was a large improvement over the version 1.4b. This cable with it's 18gps and the ability to handle 60hz signals of UHD signal is a good cable.
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post #18 of 39 Old 12-06-2013, 05:57 AM
 
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Originally Posted by HDPERSON View Post

The sound however was a large improvement over the version 1.4b...

...and I'm the President of the United States.

To be fair, Colm asked for your opinion. But, could you tell me which HDMI 2.0 source and sink you used that took advantage of the increased 18gbps bitrate? Surely you aren't claiming that an HDMI 1.x device used the 18gbps rate??

Also there is no such thing as a 1,4b cable. Version designators were eliminated for cables long before the 1.4b spec came out.
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post #19 of 39 Old 12-06-2013, 08:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by alk3997 View Post

...and I'm the President of the United States.

To be fair, Colm asked for your opinion. But, could you tell me which HDMI 2.0 source and sink you used that took advantage of the increased 18gbps bitrate? Surely you aren't claiming that an HDMI 1.x device used the 18gbps rate??

Also there is no such thing as a 1,4b cable. Version designators were eliminated for cables long before the 1.4b spec came out.

Congratulations on your election. Nice to talk to a man of your talents? I would suggest that you purchase the hdmi first and try it on your own system before making any comments, you might learn something. The 18gps bit rate is for my future 4K TV with 60hz. I didn't say that I used the 18gps did I. I didn't say that the 1.v device used the 18gps. There was improvement in sound with my system.

I believe that there are cables that are considered to conform to the 1.4b designation. A little research on your part may help. I really believe that you should buy some of these hdmi cables try it on your system to see if there is a difference for you.

I expected an arrogant answer from you. To me it seems that people can't possibly have different experiences from you with any hdmi cable. That shows arrogance. I didn't reply specially to you, I meant my response as a general response.

I am sure you will comeback with another I know better than you reply, from a person who never tried the version 2.0 cable..
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post #20 of 39 Old 12-06-2013, 09:01 AM
 
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When you can explain the physics of why audio would be improved with one HDMI cable over another, then I'm more than willing to listen. And, no I'm not going to spend my hard-earned money on things that don't improve my system. There are plenty of potential ways to upgrade my system. Replacing perfectly good HDMI cables with other perfectly good HDMI cables isn't a good use of money.

It's too bad you can't stick to arguing the facts. Let me try again and make it very simple for you...

HOW DOES A REDMERE HDMI 2.0 CABLE IMPROVE AUDIO QUALITY?

And, no, there are no 1.4b HDMI cables at least not from legitimate sources. Would you like proof?

And, again, I really don't care how you spend your money or don't spend your money. I do care that other people who read this aren't fooled into thinking there will be some (or any) audio quality improvement by purchasing these cables and using them with HDMI 1.x equipment.
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post #21 of 39 Old 12-06-2013, 10:21 AM
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HDPERSON - cable manufacturers would have to decrypt the copy protected signal passing over your HDMI cable, apply some form of audio processing, reencrypt the signal then pass it forward to the Sink device, that is not happening in any HDMI cable currently available.

HDCP ensures the video (with embedded audio) cannot be intercepted, copied or altered between your Source and Sink unless the intermediate device is HDCP compliant - that would add cost to the cable so manufacturers don't do it - as would the additional processing and licensing cost of the audio processing required.

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post #22 of 39 Old 12-06-2013, 11:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDPERSON View Post



I am sure you will comeback with another I know better than you reply, from a person who never tried the version 2.0 cable..

High speed HDMI cables are backwards compatible with all 1.4b and earlier HARDWARE specs. Any cables labeled with a number designation are suspect at best. I don't believe that HDMI.org, who owns the licensing rights to the HDMI name and specs has even officially designated HDMI 2.0 as the new specification version name. For now, the new specs were just released Sept. 4th and some mfrs, like Sony, are starting to release firmware upgrades for hardware version 1.4 to the 2.0 specs on their high end systems. As to your improved audio, my guess is that you had a bad cable or something else to begin with and a new cable fixed whatever was wrong. It had nothing to do with the new HDMI spec. Monoprice (who is a good company with a fine line of products) just wanted to be the first to jump on the HDMI 2.0 bandwagon with a Redmere cable that supports the newly release spec (which still may be modified somewhat) to grab the early adopter sales and those who just have to have the latest and think they understand what the specs really mean for their current systems now.
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post #23 of 39 Old 12-06-2013, 11:36 AM
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Since I never used an HDMI cable before I just wanted something basic to run an initial test with. What I know is that HDMI resolution is a lot better than Component and the sound, I'm a guitar player so my hearing might not be as good as someone who has normal hearing, but it is better. So far for what I do the basic cable is ok. I record in HDMI so that's what I wanted to accomplish. My next test is to buy a cable one tier up and see if I can "see" the difference. Then I can post about it. I'm using a Samsung plasma Tv, my only Plasma so I have to base every test off of that.

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post #24 of 39 Old 12-06-2013, 11:46 AM
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^^^^ currently the highest "tier" up you can go is with a certified high speed HDMI cable from a reputable mfr. For passive, that would be said cable up to about 25'. For active, that would be a Redmere cable for the longer lengths or a standard cable depending on what you are pushing thru it. The Redmere cable that meets the HARDWARE spec of 2.0 should be an improvement for future devices that comply with the 2.0 hardware spec but for current devices, I doubt that you will see or hear much difference if any at all.
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post #25 of 39 Old 12-06-2013, 11:57 AM
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You just saved me money.

Thank you.

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post #26 of 39 Old 12-06-2013, 12:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDPERSON View Post

The picture quality is the same as a version 1.4b...
As expected.
Quote:
The sound however was a large improvement...
I suspect any improvement you experienced is an artifact of the frailties of audio memory, or maybe just the fact that you were listening more critically than usual. If not, I would like to know how a device that just passes bits, albeit adjusting their shape in the process, causes this.
Quote:
This cable...is a good cable.
Good to know. Now we just need to wait to see how it does on content with a bit rate higher than 10.2 Gbps.
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post #27 of 39 Old 12-06-2013, 12:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alk3997 View Post

...there are no 1.4b HDMI cables...
Yes, according to HDMI labeling guidelines, there is to be no reference to HDMI version. Also, there is to be no reference to bit rate, at least for passive cables, just standard or high speed. But these are not passive cables. So, how do we differentiate between an active cable capable of 18Gbps from one capable of 10.2Gbps? Both meet the of definition high speed. There are some active products on the market that claim bit rates in excess of 10.2 Gbps because they can handle HDMI 1.4 signals at higher rates that apparently will not handle a HDMI 2.0 signal above 10.2 Gbps because of the difference in signalling for the higher speed data. Sounds like the HDMI folks need to update their labeling guidelines, if they haven't already.
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post #28 of 39 Old 12-06-2013, 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by MediaFan63 View Post

My next test is to buy a cable one tier up and see if I can "see" the difference.
If you aren't seeing sparkles or worse, changing the cable won't improve anything.
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post #29 of 39 Old 12-06-2013, 12:56 PM
 
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Quote:
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Since I never used an HDMI cable before I just wanted something basic to run an initial test with. What I know is that HDMI resolution is a lot better than Component and the sound, I'm a guitar player so my hearing might not be as good as someone who has normal hearing, but it is better. So far for what I do the basic cable is ok. I record in HDMI so that's what I wanted to accomplish. My next test is to buy a cable one tier up and see if I can "see" the difference. Then I can post about it. I'm using a Samsung plasma Tv, my only Plasma so I have to base every test off of that.

Good information before this append by Otto, Joe and Colm. Let me expand on one thing - which is the "better" HDMI.

When you get bits into your source device, whether that is a shiny disc in the Blu-Ray player or a digital data flowing into your satellite or cable box, those bits are unchanged by whether or not you use HDMI or component video / analog audio output. Those bits are the input.

On the destination device side, at some point you have to convert to analog. The TV does this with the video picture before it gets displayed and the output from speakers is certainly analog (speaker cones really don't like step functions). So what happens in between?

With component video your player/set top box takes the digital audio and digital video input that we had as input and converts it to analog. The picture is now uncompressed and for HD can be 1080i or 720p (it actually could be 1080p, if permitted). For audio, the box converts the digital signal to 7.1-channel analog output (on some Blu-Ray disc players) or two channel analog or with satellite / cable boxes keeps it digital but sends it out the S/PDIF digital audio box. At no point is that signal converted to a lesser signal. The exception being for post-2010 Blu-Ray disc players, the component video outputs have been neutered to only allow an SD output.

With HDMI, the video signal is still converted. All devices use compressed (lossy) video as inputs. So for HDMI, the video is converted to a uncompressed signal, sent over the HDMI link to the TV who then converts to analog and then displays the picture. The audio can stay in the same format it was received or converted to LPCM uncompressed output as well. Again, at some point it is all converted back to analog.

My point with all this is HDMI or not, there is no reason (other than legal) that component video along with 7.1-channel output can't look and sound identical to the HDMI version. It actually used to be that the HDMI picture was inferior to the component video because early HDMI conversions weren't that good. Now HDMI is usually much easier to setup properly than component and obviously the industry would like component to fade away.

Hope that helps in understanding how the video and audio data is transferred and converted.

I do have one question, though. What did you mean by "I record in HDMI"?
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post #30 of 39 Old 12-06-2013, 12:58 PM
 
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And for those who don't remember our last encounter, try this thread...

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1339688/poll-your-favorite-hdmi-cable

On 6/26/11, I wrote,
Quote:
Originally Posted by ALK3997 
I don't have to try cyanide to know it's bad for me. I don't need to try every cable known to man to figure out whether one cable would provide any improvement over another

It's still true today.
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