HDMI Switch - Want to Make Sure This Works - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 26 Old 12-16-2013, 10:02 AM - Thread Starter
tjk
AVS Special Member
 
tjk's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Chicago
Posts: 1,064
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Hi, I'm adding an Xbox 360 to my Basement HT system and I'd like to get HDMI video to my TV and surround audio to my HT receiver.

My TV is a 56" Samsung DLP, with one HDMI in (being fed by an Oppo BDP-95) and a DVI in (being fed by a DirecTV HR-21).

My HT receiver is a Denon 3802, which I've had for many years and don't see a huge reason to upgrade...I use my Oppo 7.1 output to the Denon ext. input to decode Blu-Ray discs.

I have one empty optical in on the Denon that I would use for the xbox.

My questions:

1) Am I correct in assuming that I should not use an HDMI switch to also switch the optical audio to my Denon, because the connection of the switch to my TV will force the S/PDIF output from any HDMI switcher to be 2-channel? I read about this when researching the monoprice 4x1 with toslink and coax digital audio out. So buying an HDMI switcher with digital audio out capability would be a waste if I wanted to get 5.1 out of the xbox, right?

2) If I hook the xbox optical out directly into the Denon, and the HDMI into a switcher (like the monoprice 5x1), is there a high likelihood I'll have audio synch issues? I would hope not, my other devices that have HDMI going to the TV and audio going to my receiver (my DirecTV receivers and my Oppo) work fine.

3) I have one DirecTV HR-21 going DVI to my TV, and simultaneously into a Shinybow 4x2 component video switcher. I have another HR-21 hooked into the same component switcher, with no HDMI/DVI. Frankly I see little difference, if any, between the two pictures, but if I did hook up both HR-21's to the HDMI switcher, and used that for my basement TV (the other TV I feed is upstairs in the family room), would I run into any issues if someone wanted to play xbox downstairs while someone watches the HR-21 upstairs? In other words, let's say someone upstairs is watching an HR-21. Someone downstairs turns on the xbox. The HR-21 would still be on, as would the xbox...both connected to the HDMI switcher. I've read that a lot of these switchers automatically switch to the device just turned on...I'd much rather just use a universal remote to tell the HDMI switcher which source to output. Is that doable? (I'd be using a Harmony 890-pro remote).

Plan is to switch two DirecTV HR-21's, and an xbox into the DVI input on my TV, and leave the OPPO on the HDMI input. All three components will send audio through coax or toslink to my Denon receiver.

I've read most people seem pretty satisfied with the monoprice 5x1, which is really inexpensive - any other suggestions?

Thanks!

tjk
tjk is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 26 Old 12-16-2013, 02:39 PM
 
alk3997's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 3,722
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by tjk View Post

...

1) Am I correct in assuming that I should not use an HDMI switch to also switch the optical audio to my Denon, because the connection of the switch to my TV will force the S/PDIF output from any HDMI switcher to be 2-channel? I read about this when researching the monoprice 4x1 with toslink and coax digital audio out. So buying an HDMI switcher with digital audio out capability would be a waste if I wanted to get 5.1 out of the xbox, right?

2) If I hook the xbox optical out directly into the Denon, and the HDMI into a switcher (like the monoprice 5x1), is there a high likelihood I'll have audio synch issues? I would hope not, my other devices that have HDMI going to the TV and audio going to my receiver (my DirecTV receivers and my Oppo) work fine.

3) I have one DirecTV HR-21 going DVI to my TV, and simultaneously into a Shinybow 4x2 component video switcher. I have another HR-21 hooked into the same component switcher, with no HDMI/DVI. Frankly I see little difference, if any, between the two pictures, but if I did hook up both HR-21's to the HDMI switcher, and used that for my basement TV (the other TV I feed is upstairs in the family room), would I run into any issues if someone wanted to play xbox downstairs while someone watches the HR-21 upstairs? In other words, let's say someone upstairs is watching an HR-21. Someone downstairs turns on the xbox. The HR-21 would still be on, as would the xbox...both connected to the HDMI switcher. I've read that a lot of these switchers automatically switch to the device just turned on...I'd much rather just use a universal remote to tell the HDMI switcher which source to output. Is that doable? (I'd be using a Harmony 890-pro remote).

...

Thanks!

1) Yes. If the HDMI switch receives a stereo signal, then it can only provide that signal out of its optical outputs. The connection to the TV should cause the source to only send stereo.

2) Don't know. There is a lip sync option on later HDMI versions that is supposed to prevent that, but I've often found it's more in-sync by disabling the option. Unfortunately, this may be one where you have to try it to find out, particularly given the larger amount of components you are using compared to a point-to-point connection.

3) Unless you purchase an auto-switching switcher, you don't have to worry about it switching to the newest input. I stay away from auto-switching because 1) universal remotes are great and 2) it never seemed to auto-switch to the input I wanted or it would change because powered-up another device.

However, one thing to be concerned about, particularly on lower priced switchers, is that if one of the inputs or outputs is powered-off, all of the sinks (the TVs) "blink" while the handshake is re-established. It's annoying while you are watching something and a different TV is shutdown and what you are watching gets interrupted for a second or two. Doesn't seem like much until "...it's a long fly ball to deep center field, it's going but wait..." and that is when it blinks. Or for those who are in a baseball-challenged part of the world, "it's a break-away, he shoots, he ..." and then the blink.

Finally, don't forget that if you use the HDMI output and the component video output simultaneously on the HR21 (or any other DirecTV DVR), you will get an error message on the component video output if you try to watch a premium movie channel (such as HBO or Showtime) using both connections at the same time. Regular channels are OK and, you are right, the output is identical to my eyes as well.
alk3997 is offline  
post #3 of 26 Old 12-16-2013, 02:39 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Joe Fernand's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Scotland, UK
Posts: 1,090
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 60
Lots to cover 

HDMI audio – can only be 2.0, 5.1 or 7.1 at any time, it doesn’t support multiple audio streams.

Optical Digital audio – it would be an odd Source device which will not support Video + 2.0 audio via HDMI (to a TV) plus simultaneously allow 5.1 via Optical (or Coaxial) to an AVR.

HDMI + Optical Switch – some are basically two switches I one box others can act as two switches in one box and or process the audio out of the HDMI stream, that way you can cover pretty much all possibilities (Inc. ARC where required).

http://www.octavainc.com/HDMI%20switch%204x1%20ARC%20port_pro.html

Xbox360 – will support HDMI (Video + 2.0) plus Optical (up-to 5.1) and no more reason for it to have a Sync issue vs. any other Source device.

HDMI vs. Component – you should be comparing HDMI vs. 3RCA as a way to carry Digital (HDMI) vs. Analogue (3RCA) Component video and as you have seen there is not much to choose between the two, Hollywood favours Digital (HDMI) as it allows them to encrypt (HDCP) the signal to try and prevent copying.

Joe

If I've helped 'Like' me on Facebook - www.facebook.com/Octavainc

Joe Fernand is offline  
post #4 of 26 Old 12-16-2013, 03:15 PM - Thread Starter
tjk
AVS Special Member
 
tjk's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Chicago
Posts: 1,064
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by alk3997 View Post

1) Yes. If the HDMI switch receives a stereo signal, then it can only provide that signal out of its optical outputs. The connection to the TV should cause the source to only send stereo.

2) Don't know. There is a lip sync option on later HDMI versions that is supposed to prevent that, but I've often found it's more in-sync by disabling the option. Unfortunately, this may be one where you have to try it to find out, particularly given the larger amount of components you are using compared to a point-to-point connection.

3) Unless you purchase an auto-switching switcher, you don't have to worry about it switching to the newest input. I stay away from auto-switching because 1) universal remotes are great and 2) it never seemed to auto-switch to the input I wanted or it would change because powered-up another device.

However, one thing to be concerned about, particularly on lower priced switchers, is that if one of the inputs or outputs is powered-off, all of the sinks (the TVs) "blink" while the handshake is re-established. It's annoying while you are watching something and a different TV is shutdown and what you are watching gets interrupted for a second or two. Doesn't seem like much until "...it's a long fly ball to deep center field, it's going but wait..." and that is when it blinks. Or for those who are in a baseball-challenged part of the world, "it's a break-away, he shoots, he ..." and then the blink.

Finally, don't forget that if you use the HDMI output and the component video output simultaneously on the HR21 (or any other DirecTV DVR), you will get an error message on the component video output if you try to watch a premium movie channel (such as HBO or Showtime) using both connections at the same time. Regular channels are OK and, you are right, the output is identical to my eyes as well.

Thanks for the reply. With respect to the "blink", I'm not terribly worried about that - I'm only hooking up one switcher to one TV. The upstairs TV is only connected via component from a component video switcher. But are you saying that if DVR 1 is turned off, and I'm watching DVR 2 downstairs, my TV will blink?

As far as the premium channels output...I have no problem watching HBO out of component and HDMI simultaneously. With the DirecTV boxes, both HDMI and component are "hot" all the time. The component goes to my Shinybow switcher to both my upstairs and downstairs TV's, and the DVR I have hooked up to my basement TV via DVI (via an HDMI to DVI cable) can watch the same thing on HBO that my upstairs TV can.

The only thing that concerns me is the auto-switching - if the remote has discrete buttons, do I need to worry about auto switching? I'm sure there will be many times when I'm watching one DVR upstairs and either the other DVR or the Xbox gets turned on.

Thanks again.

tjk
tjk is offline  
post #5 of 26 Old 12-16-2013, 03:21 PM - Thread Starter
tjk
AVS Special Member
 
tjk's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Chicago
Posts: 1,064
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Fernand View Post

Lots to cover 

HDMI audio – can only be 2.0, 5.1 or 7.1 at any time, it doesn’t support multiple audio streams.

Optical Digital audio – it would be an odd Source device which will not support Video + 2.0 audio via HDMI (to a TV) plus simultaneously allow 5.1 via Optical (or Coaxial) to an AVR.

HDMI + Optical Switch – some are basically two switches I one box others can act as two switches in one box and or process the audio out of the HDMI stream, that way you can cover pretty much all possibilities (Inc. ARC where required).

http://www.octavainc.com/HDMI%20switch%204x1%20ARC%20port_pro.html

Xbox360 – will support HDMI (Video + 2.0) plus Optical (up-to 5.1) and no more reason for it to have a Sync issue vs. any other Source device.

HDMI vs. Component – you should be comparing HDMI vs. 3RCA as a way to carry Digital (HDMI) vs. Analogue (3RCA) Component video and as you have seen there is not much to choose between the two, Hollywood favours Digital (HDMI) as it allows them to encrypt (HDCP) the signal to try and prevent copying.

Joe

Thanks Joe. I did look at that switch and I don't believe it will work for me because I doubt my TV is ARC enabled. It's an 8 year old DLP. I love the picture and don't plan on changing it. I also have an available optical input on my AVR, so while it might be nice to keep a free input for a future device, I don't want to lose 5.1 audio to do it. I might as well connect the xbox to my AVR directly. I don't use HDMI to transmit audio to the TV, and I haven't turned the speakers on the TV on since I unboxed it.

Any other suggestions? I appreciate the help.

tjk
tjk is offline  
post #6 of 26 Old 12-16-2013, 03:46 PM
 
alk3997's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 3,722
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by tjk View Post

Thanks for the reply. With respect to the "blink", I'm not terribly worried about that - I'm only hooking up one switcher to one TV. The upstairs TV is only connected via component from a component video switcher. But are you saying that if DVR 1 is turned off, and I'm watching DVR 2 downstairs, my TV will blink?

As far as the premium channels output...I have no problem watching HBO out of component and HDMI simultaneously. With the DirecTV boxes, both HDMI and component are "hot" all the time. The component goes to my Shinybow switcher to both my upstairs and downstairs TV's, and the DVR I have hooked up to my basement TV via DVI (via an HDMI to DVI cable) can watch the same thing on HBO that my upstairs TV can.

The only thing that concerns me is the auto-switching - if the remote has discrete buttons, do I need to worry about auto switching? I'm sure there will be many times when I'm watching one DVR upstairs and either the other DVR or the Xbox gets turned on.

Thanks again.

Let me give you a blink example. TV 1 has component and HDMI going to it. TV1 is using DVR1, which also has component and HDMI being used from it but TV1 is being fed with component at this time. TV2 has only HDMI going to it. TV2 is using DVR2 which has its component video going to an AVR, which converts component to HDMI and sends it to both TV1 and TV2 (only TV2 using it). Turning off TV1 caused TV2 to blink even though component video is selected on TV1 at the time. If HDMI touches the devices, even if you aren't watching HDMI, it could blink.

So, yes, there is a possibility of that.

BTW, my response on S/PDIF was only for an HDMI switcher that outputs S/PDIF. Of course almost any Blu-Ray or DVR will output 5.1 over *its* S/PDIF output, even if the HDMI output is stereo.
alk3997 is offline  
post #7 of 26 Old 12-16-2013, 05:49 PM - Thread Starter
tjk
AVS Special Member
 
tjk's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Chicago
Posts: 1,064
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by alk3997 View Post

Let me give you a blink example. TV 1 has component and HDMI going to it. TV1 is using DVR1, which also has component and HDMI being used from it but TV1 is being fed with component at this time. TV2 has only HDMI going to it. TV2 is using DVR2 which has its component video going to an AVR, which converts component to HDMI and sends it to both TV1 and TV2 (only TV2 using it). Turning off TV1 caused TV2 to blink even though component video is selected on TV1 at the time. If HDMI touches the devices, even if you aren't watching HDMI, it could blink.

So, yes, there is a possibility of that.

Now I'm a bit confused. Here's my proposed setup:

TV1 (basement) will have DVR 1, DVR 2, and Xbox connected to an HDMI switcher, then the switcher's output will be connected to TV1 DVI input via an HDMI to DVI cable. The HDMI input is being directly fed by an Oppo Blu-Ray player.

DVR 1 and DVR 2 are also connected via component to a shinybow 4x2 matrix switcher. The matrix switcher feeds both TV's and has the two DVR's, the Blu-Ray player, and an apple TV connected to it. The component switchers outputs go to TV1 and TV2 (upstairs in family room). TV2 has no HDMI hookup (it's HDMI capable but I'm using only the component input, getting audio from the RCA stereo out of the video switcher). The "link" between the TV's will be the fact that DVR's 1 & 2 are connected to an HDMI switcher that goes to TV1, and a component switcher that goes to TV2. If someone is watching DVR 1 upstairs and DVR 2 downstairs, and DVR 1 is turned off, does the downstairs TV blink?

I'm more concerned about the input switching automatically - my only workaround would be to program my universal remote to turn on the xbox, DRV 1 and DVR 2 anytime an activity using any of them in the basement is selected. Then the only way an input would switch is if someone upstairs turned off the TV and DVR and then turned it on again. Possible but won't happen often. Still, I'd rather have a switcher without this auto switch issue...any ideas?[/quote]
Quote:
BTW, my response on S/PDIF was only for an HDMI switcher that outputs S/PDIF. Of course almost any Blu-Ray or DVR will output 5.1 over *its* S/PDIF output, even if the HDMI output is stereo.

Yep, I have one DVR going HDMI out for video and optical out for surround audio. My Blu-Ray being used as a surround decoder so I'm using the 7.1 output for audio and HDMI direct to TV for video (or component to the upstairs TV).

tjk
tjk is offline  
post #8 of 26 Old 12-17-2013, 12:31 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Joe Fernand's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Scotland, UK
Posts: 1,090
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 60
Hello tjk

ARC – if not required our switch will function as a more conventional non-ARC HDMI Switch.

HDMI + Optical Switch – my thinking being you can save having to toggle the AVR and let the Switch do all the work (ours can keep HDMI + Optical locked or unlocked – listen to one view another).

HDMI Auto switching – can be enabled/disabled and with discrete codes it is easy to control the Switch with a programmable remote.

Long term – no worries about your Broadcaster disabling the YUV Outs at some later date, your ATV dying (new ATV’s don’t support YUV) or your DLP dying? You may eventually be forced to consider a 4x2 HDMI Matrix and ditch YUV.

Joe

If I've helped 'Like' me on Facebook - www.facebook.com/Octavainc

Joe Fernand is offline  
post #9 of 26 Old 12-17-2013, 07:34 AM
AVS Special Member
 
AV_Integrated's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Northern, VA - Washington, DC
Posts: 2,822
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 95 Post(s)
Liked: 256
I think the simplest setup is the best.

If you have a good universal remote, then I would hook your sources up to a NON automatic switch and use the remote control to switch between sources.

Pick DVR 1 and the HDMI switch goes to whatever input you have it plugged into.

Likewise, I would run optical audio from my sources to the receiver separately. There's no obvious reason to run them into a HDMI switch first as it adds another point of failure to your setup, adds cost to the switch as well. This is all stuff that a good universal remote control should be able to handle automatically once programmed properly.

You should not have any 'blink' issues associated with component video, but HDMI blinking issues are very real and constant from lower-tier products on the market, of which there are many.

I would really start saving for a new A/V receiver. Perhaps one with dual zone HDMI outputs on it to really simplify your setup.

Still wishing HDMI would support surround + stereo on the connection.

AV Integrated - Theater, whole house audio, and technology installation in the Washington DC metro area.
AV_Integrated is online now  
post #10 of 26 Old 12-17-2013, 08:39 AM
 
alk3997's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 3,722
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by tjk View Post

...

DVR 1 and DVR 2 are also connected via component to a shinybow 4x2 matrix switcher. The matrix switcher feeds both TV's and has the two DVR's, the Blu-Ray player, and an apple TV connected to it. The component switchers outputs go to TV1 and TV2 (upstairs in family room). TV2 has no HDMI hookup (it's HDMI capable but I'm using only the component input, getting audio from the RCA stereo out of the video switcher). The "link" between the TV's will be the fact that DVR's 1 & 2 are connected to an HDMI switcher that goes to TV1, and a component switcher that goes to TV2. If someone is watching DVR 1 upstairs and DVR 2 downstairs, and DVR 1 is turned off, does the downstairs TV blink?


.

No it won't because TV2 is not connected with HDMI, so it is (almost) completely independent of HDMI.

And, yes, a universal remote that also sends its output to the switchers is the most reliable way to work the system. With two locations you may want to look at an RF-based remote that works with a small base station that then sends the IR signal.
alk3997 is offline  
post #11 of 26 Old 12-17-2013, 12:03 PM - Thread Starter
tjk
AVS Special Member
 
tjk's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Chicago
Posts: 1,064
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV_Integrated View Post

If you have a good universal remote, then I would hook your sources up to a NON automatic switch and use the remote control to switch between sources.

I've been very happy with my Harmony 890 pro for years. The auto-switching feature would be a nuisance to me.
Quote:
I would really start saving for a new A/V receiver. Perhaps one with dual zone HDMI outputs on it to really simplify your setup.

Really nothing to do with money. Not saying I have unlimited funds, but it's much more about the time to pull components out of my system, re-wire everything, reprogram my remote for a new A/V receiver, etc...a lot harder than just adding a switcher to the mix.

I thought hard about getting a new receiver or a processor/amp combo, but I like my Denon and it works just fine, it just doesn't have HDMI. You'd be hard pressed to find a receiver or processor that does a better job with Blu-Rays than my Oppo BDP-95 through it's 7.1 output. As far as the second zone HDMI, when I remodeled my house in 2005, I did not pull an HDMI cable from my equipment closet downstairs to my TV above my fireplace upstairs. It's a 75' run, and back then 75' HDMI cables cost a ton, if they were even available. So I ran component and Cat-5. I do have a conduit and I could, relatively inexpensively, fish an HDMI cable now, but I don't see the point. Picture is fine and I watch movies downstairs. I'd pull a wire now, but one thing I learned when I remodeled is actually to not pull wires for future use - I wired my whole house for a Crestron system, but instead of spending $1,000 on a Crestron wifi tablet, I control my whole house music with a $99 airport express and free apps on the iphone. At some point (and there may even be a way to do it now), there will be a wireless HDMI receiver on my TV that I can run from my basement. Until then, I'm fine with what I've got upstairs, and the switcher is really a somewhat disposable item as one day when I do switch receivers and TV's, I won't need it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by alk3997 View Post

No it won't because TV2 is not connected with HDMI, so it is (almost) completely independent of HDMI.

And, yes, a universal remote that also sends its output to the switchers is the most reliable way to work the system. With two locations you may want to look at an RF-based remote that works with a small base station that then sends the IR signal.

That's awesome - that solves the blinking issue. I've already got the RF remote (Harmony 890 Pro as mentioned above). All the more reason to keep the upstairs TV component only for now.

I found a couple of non-auto switching options - one is Monoprice's 5x1 mini switch, which I guess does what the bigger switch does but does not auto-switch. The other option would be a 4x2 or 5x2 matrix switch - I wouldn't used the second output (yet), but matrix switchers won't auto-switch when something is turned on, since by their design they are meant to have multiple components on at once.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Fernand View Post

ARC – if not required our switch will function as a more conventional non-ARC HDMI Switch.

HDMI + Optical Switch – my thinking being you can save having to toggle the AVR and let the Switch do all the work (ours can keep HDMI + Optical locked or unlocked – listen to one view another).

HDMI Auto switching – can be enabled/disabled and with discrete codes it is easy to control the Switch with a programmable remote.

Long term – no worries about your Broadcaster disabling the YUV Outs at some later date, your ATV dying (new ATV’s don’t support YUV) or your DLP dying? You may eventually be forced to consider a 4x2 HDMI Matrix and ditch YUV.

Joe

Joe, your products look great and I do appreciate your help. Unfortunately hooking my DVR's and Xbox up to the switcher with an optical connection will only give me stereo sound from the connected components, so it's a little more than I need. I agree it is nice to have one less source to toggle through, but that's why I couldn't imagine not having a decent universal remote. Hopefully at some point long before any of the events you mention (YUV outs not being supported, my Apple TV or DLP dying), I'll have upgraded my whole system smile.gif. Right now the most compelling case for me to run an HDMI wire to my upstairs TV is to get the new ATV and be able to use AirPlay, but it's not enough yet to make me ditch the original ATV and create a blinking issue with my TV's. I'd put a new ATV downstairs but the Xbox is taking my last S/PDIF. I could go stereo only on one of my directv receivers, but again not really necessary. If only, as AV-Integrated mentions above, the HDMI could support stereo + surround on the same connection, I'd be all over the ARC switch and I'd buy a new ATV to combine with my old one. For now, I'll just have to upload to YouTube to watch home videos on the big screen (or wire my iphone into the HDMI switcher).

I really appreciate everyone's help!!

tjk
tjk is offline  
post #12 of 26 Old 12-17-2013, 12:44 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Joe Fernand's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Scotland, UK
Posts: 1,090
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 60
'YUV outs not being supported' - that scenario is already well under way, the Analog Sunset laws set the wheels in motion back in Dec. 2010 when any new Source devices coming to market had to ditch HD capable Analog Outputs, today most Devices have simply ditched the Analog Outs (even for SD).

'Unfortunately hooking my DVR's and Xbox up to the switcher with an optical connection will only give me stereo sound from the connected components' - not sure I follow, you can surely configure your devices as Video + 2.0 (via HDMI) plus 5.1 via Optical and toggle which audio stream (HDMI or Optical) the Switch is Outputting via Optical without changing the HDMI (Video + 2.0) to your TV's.

Joe

If I've helped 'Like' me on Facebook - www.facebook.com/Octavainc

Joe Fernand is offline  
post #13 of 26 Old 12-17-2013, 01:15 PM - Thread Starter
tjk
AVS Special Member
 
tjk's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Chicago
Posts: 1,064
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
So let me see if I understand this correctly...

The difference between your switcher and the monoprice switcher is that yours has separate optical INPUTS, so the optical audio out from an Xbox would go to the switcher, then out to my AVR and I'd get 5.1/7.1 sound? Whereas the Monoprice would only output 2.0 from the optical out because it is essentially converting the HDMI audio to optical, and the TV's DVI input is not sending 7.1 down the cable. Do I have that right?

I guess that makes sense - I have one of my DVR's right now connected to the DLP via DVI in, but I get 5.1/7.1 via the optical output to my AVR.

That does make a compelling case, since I would be able to add another HDMI/optical out device like a new ATV.

tjk
tjk is offline  
post #14 of 26 Old 12-17-2013, 02:10 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Joe Fernand's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Scotland, UK
Posts: 1,090
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 60
Tjk – you are getting there smile.gif though keep in mind Optical is 2.0 or 5.1 but not 7.1 (you need HDMI or multiple RCA for 7.1).

With our HD41-ARC you can hook up just HDMI from one or more Sources and separate out the HDMI audio to the Optical Out and or hook up HDMI + Optical from one or more Sources and now you have the option to toggle between the HDMI audio (2.0 in your scenario) or Optical (5.1) – which would seem ideal for your requirements.

You can have an Optical Only Source too plus you have the Option to toggle Optical independently from HDMI so you can View one Source and listen to another.

Joe

PS The factory look at me quizzically when I put in a request for this type of multi-purpose device biggrin.gif

If I've helped 'Like' me on Facebook - www.facebook.com/Octavainc

Joe Fernand is offline  
post #15 of 26 Old 12-17-2013, 02:30 PM - Thread Starter
tjk
AVS Special Member
 
tjk's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Chicago
Posts: 1,064
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Fernand View Post

Tjk – you are getting there smile.gif though keep in mind Optical is 2.0 or 5.1 but not 7.1 (you need HDMI or multiple RCA for 7.1).

With our HD41-ARC you can hook up just HDMI from one or more Sources and separate out the HDMI audio to the Optical Out and or hook up HDMI + Optical from one or more Sources and now you have the option to toggle between the HDMI audio (2.0 in your scenario) or Optical (5.1) – which would seem ideal for your requirements.

You can have an Optical Only Source too plus you have the Option to toggle Optical independently from HDMI so you can View one Source and listen to another.

Joe

PS The factory look at me quizzically when I put in a request for this type of multi-purpose device biggrin.gif

Thanks Joe. You've really designed a great product.
Joe Fernand likes this.

tjk
tjk is offline  
post #16 of 26 Old 01-01-2014, 09:48 PM - Thread Starter
tjk
AVS Special Member
 
tjk's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Chicago
Posts: 1,064
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Update on this...I would up getting the monoprice 4x2 matrix switcher because I didn't need any audio switching (my component switcher already does that). It sort of works...I connected both of my directv receivers to it (remember they feed my upstairs TV through a component matrix switcher). Previously I had one of the receivers connected directly to my basement TV's DVI input.

Problem now is that when anything is on in the basement (i.e. xbox), my upstairs TV does not display any picture from another device (there is obviously some sort of handshake issue). In other words, if someone downstairs is playing xbox and the HDMI switch is on, the upstairs TV cannot display a picture from either DVR even though they are connected via component to the TV. I have to assume the HDMI switcher is blocking the component output of the non-active devices.

I have a few of things I could do:

1) scrap all of my HDMI connections except for the xbox and my Oppo, and connect both of them to my basement TV direclty via HDMI (or DVI). That would mean both of my directv receivers would be component only, upstairs and downstairs.

2) use the second HDMI output on the monoprice switcher into an HDMI-component converter. I assume this will work and will fix my handshake issues - output B on my HDMI switcher would feed the converter, which would then connect via component to my upstairs TV.

3) Only connect one DVR to the HDMI switcher, and just know that that DVR will be unavailable upstairs if someone is playing the xbox downstairs;

4) Find an HDMI switcher that won't have these handshake issues, but I doubt that exists.

Thoughts?

tjk
tjk is offline  
post #17 of 26 Old 01-02-2014, 06:35 AM
 
alk3997's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 3,722
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 87
Does this only happen with the DirecTV DVRs? Are you on a premium channel at the time (HBO, Showtime, etc)? Do you have the 1080p option selected in the DVRs? If so, disable 1080p in the DVR menu.
alk3997 is offline  
post #18 of 26 Old 01-02-2014, 06:54 AM - Thread Starter
tjk
AVS Special Member
 
tjk's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Chicago
Posts: 1,064
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
I had only 3 things hooked up to the switcher: the two DVRs and the xbox. Could not get a picture or audio upstairs (even though I was not using HDMI for audio) from either DVR unless that DVR was playing downstairs as well. When I disconnect the HDMI cable from the switcher the picture and audio come back on upstairs. Doesn't matter what channel I'm on, and under my previous setup (where one DVR was connected directly into my basement TV), I never had this issue, so I have to assume the switch her is blocking all output from the two DVRs unless the HDMI output is selected from that DVR.

For now I've just disconnected the HDMI cables and I'm going all component on both TVs with digital audio on my receiver. Only the XBox is hooked up to the switcher. Works fine but I'm intrigued by the HDMI to component converter. If I made that output B on the switcher, I'd guess it would solve the handshake issues on output A, since my video to both TVs would be HDMI. The converter should be invisible to the switch, right? At least that's what the specs say.

tjk
tjk is offline  
post #19 of 26 Old 01-02-2014, 07:24 AM
 
alk3997's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 3,722
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 87
It's not the switcher since that would not block component video (it doesn't have the connections to do that). However DirecTV has incorporated blocking into its DVRs when an HDMI connection and a component connection is detected at the same time. This is supposed to be for premium channels only.

You never said whether you have unchecked 1080p in the DVR menu??? If the unit is sending out 1080p over HDMI, it will not send component video. Uncheck 1080p and set your resolution to 1080i (or native) to solve that problem. There is no loss of picture quality by doing this since the DVR only receives 1080i and 720p for HD signals anyway.
alk3997 is offline  
post #20 of 26 Old 01-02-2014, 08:30 AM - Thread Starter
tjk
AVS Special Member
 
tjk's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Chicago
Posts: 1,064
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by alk3997 View Post

Does this only happen with the DirecTV DVRs? Are you on a premium channel at the time (HBO, Showtime, etc)? Do you have the 1080p option selected in the DVRs? If so, disable 1080p in the DVR menu.

Sorry- 1080p is disabled. I hear what you're saying but I've never had this problem before I introduced the switcher and I've had one DVR connected via component and HDMI for years. Also my receiver was on NBC, not a premium. As soon as I unplugged the HDMI cable, the picture came on upstairs.

tjk
tjk is offline  
post #21 of 26 Old 01-02-2014, 09:52 AM
 
alk3997's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 3,722
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 87
And, just to make sure I am understanding right, if you remove the switcher from the equation then both HDMI and component work the way they should? This does not happen with the Xbox?

The only thing I can think of is that the switcher is "confusing" DVR with the EDID modifications it makes and somehow the DVR programming turns off component as a result.
alk3997 is offline  
post #22 of 26 Old 01-02-2014, 10:22 AM - Thread Starter
tjk
AVS Special Member
 
tjk's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Chicago
Posts: 1,064
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
I only have the Xbox connected downstairs via HDMI through the switcher. No component connections, audio is toslink directly into my AV receiver

For many years I've had one DVR connected via HDMI to my basement TV and component (through component matrix switch) to my upstairs TV. The other DVR was component only to both TVs through the component switcher. The component switch outputs to both TVs, of course. With this arrangement, if I was watching DVR 2 through HDMI, I could watch DVR 1 through component upstairs. Any combination of channels.

With the HDMI switcher introduced, if I'm watching DVR 2 via HDMI downstairs, I can ONLY watch DVR 2 via component upstairs. DVR 1 has no picture or audio output. If I unplug the HDMI cable from the switcher, the picture comes back on upstairs. I'm a novice at this stuff but I think that isolates the switcher as the problem, right? So introducing an HDMI to component converter to have the switch output HDMI to both TVs (the upstairs through the converter) would do the trick, right? If I really had to have HDMI video from my DVRs, that is. My Oppo is still HDMI direct to downstairs TV and component to upstairs through the component switcher. No connection to the HDMI switcher.

Thanks!

tjk
tjk is offline  
post #23 of 26 Old 01-02-2014, 02:28 PM
 
alk3997's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 3,722
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 87
HDMI to component converters are forbidden under the HDMI adopter's agreements. You can find them (occasionally) but they are pricey.

It is also possible that the DVR is having an issue with the EDID.
alk3997 is offline  
post #24 of 26 Old 01-02-2014, 02:41 PM - Thread Starter
tjk
AVS Special Member
 
tjk's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Chicago
Posts: 1,064
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by alk3997 View Post

HDMI to component converters are forbidden under the HDMI adopter's agreements. You can find them (occasionally) but they are pricey.

It is also possible that the DVR is having an issue with the EDID.

Yeah, that monoprice unit I mentioned comes up in a google search but when I clicked on it, it goes to the monoprice home page and the product ID is not found, so I guess it doesn't exist anymore. I did find this:

http://www.focalprice.com/CX279B/HDMI_to_Component_Video_YPbPr_Converter_Box_Black.html?utm_source=CS&utm_medium=GM_US&utm_campaign=CS_GM_US_CX279B&gclid=CJzPkrbG4LsCFcVFMgodmyAAew

$48 ain't bad.

It look like I either get this unit or I just go component only from my DVR's, right? Unless there is an HDMI switcher out there that won't have this issue.

tjk
tjk is offline  
post #25 of 26 Old 01-02-2014, 02:54 PM
 
alk3997's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 3,722
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 87
May not be the best thing to discuss here but you might want to check that the unit is HDCP compliant or you will likely get no picture. I have noticed boxes like this disappear quickly once a link is provided here.

No, you should be able to use both HDMI and component (I do it and many others do as well).
tjk likes this.
alk3997 is offline  
post #26 of 26 Old 01-02-2014, 03:00 PM - Thread Starter
tjk
AVS Special Member
 
tjk's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Chicago
Posts: 1,064
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
No, you should be able to use both HDMI and component (I do it and many others do as well).

How? Do I just not have a good switcher?

tjk
tjk is offline  
Reply HDMI Q&A - The One Connector World

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off