roku3 hdmi through yamaha avr with component video output to sharp xvz2000 dlp??? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 17 Old 02-01-2014, 08:28 PM - Thread Starter
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i just bought the roku3 with hdmi only out.
my yamaha xv1600 has hdmi in.
however i only ran component cables through the wall and ceiling to my video projector.
the sharp projector xvz2000 does take dvi in, but no hdmi. however id rather not re-run a cable and id prefer not to buy a new projector.

will an external hdmi to component converter work?
which one would be best?

thx
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post #2 of 17 Old 02-01-2014, 09:13 PM
 
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Sure. Where are you going to find one? HDMI to component video is a violation of the HDMI adopter's agreements. If you can find one they will be overseas (from the U.S.) *and* will cost a whole lot more than trying to find a Roku 2, which I believe has component video outputs.

Unfortunately, while you would have a legitimate use for an HDMI to component video converter, the HDMI Org sees component video as a way to steal data the HD data (even if the encryption was broken many years ago).

So, best choice is to find a Roku 2. If that doesn't work and you really want to spend about 3x what you spent on the Roku, there was another thread on this forum about the converter within the last two weeks.
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post #3 of 17 Old 02-03-2014, 06:20 PM
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No current generation Roku player has component video outputs. They name them Roku 2, and 3 and such in the current models, but you actually need an older model for one which has component video output.

I'm not going to ask how you only ran component video, but at the end of the day, what you need is HDMI run from your receiver to the projector. If you have 4 or more coaxial cables run to your projector, you can use a HDMI over four coaxial converter to get HDMI from the receiver to the projector directly.

But, within the last ten years it has been pretty well established that a digital connection will be mandatory for projectors, so at some point you will need to deal with that issue.

The HDFury is one of the few products out there you may have easy access to for HDMI to component video conversion.


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post #4 of 17 Old 02-04-2014, 08:43 AM
 
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Originally Posted by AV_Integrated View Post


I'm not going to ask how you only ran component video, but at the end of the day, what you need is HDMI run from your receiver to the projector.

Lots of people still use component video for whole home HD distribution. It has a lot of advantages including no EDID, no blinks and comparable picture quality and with a 2010 Blu-Ray player, it works really well. You should try it.
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post #5 of 17 Old 02-04-2014, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by alk3997 View Post

Lots of people still use component video for whole home HD distribution. It has a lot of advantages including no EDID, no blinks and comparable picture quality and with a 2010 Blu-Ray player, it works really well. You should try it.
Not what I said or care to discuss. No EDID, no blinks, and no video from AppleTV 3, the latest BD players on the market, Roku, and if cable companies get their way - cable boxes. HDMI, and more importantly HDCP has been known about for well over a decade now and really must be in place considering all the components which have come to market. Considering the alternatives, it's better to get HDMI in place than to try to work around it in a basic system.


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post #6 of 17 Old 02-04-2014, 11:25 AM
 
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Originally Posted by AV_Integrated View Post

Not what I said or care to discuss. No EDID, no blinks, and no video from AppleTV 3, the latest BD players on the market, Roku, and if cable companies get their way - cable boxes. HDMI, and more importantly HDCP has been known about for well over a decade now and really must be in place considering all the components which have come to market. Considering the alternatives, it's better to get HDMI in place than to try to work around it in a basic system.

You don't have to discuss it, but that isn't what you said. You said, "I'm not going to ask how you only ran component video", which implies that running just component was somehow wrong, even without knowing when it was run. It isn't wrong. It is a valid alternative whether you like it or not. The same HD signal can be seen over component or over HDMI, if done properly.
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post #7 of 17 Old 02-04-2014, 06:23 PM
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Originally Posted by alk3997 View Post

You don't have to discuss it, but that isn't what you said. You said, "I'm not going to ask how you only ran component video", which implies that running just component was somehow wrong, even without knowing when it was run. It isn't wrong. It is a valid alternative whether you like it or not. The same HD signal can be seen over component or over HDMI, if done properly.
If you say so. Tell me which TVs accept 1080p over component, and which devices output 1080p over component, and how the sources I listed are supposed to be connected over component in THIS DAY AND AGE.

No, I'm suggesting that the original poster should spend some time figuring out how to get the digital signal which his current A/V receiver and sources support to the digital input his current projector supports as in the long run that is not only beneficial but will simplify the connectivity as more and more devices go exclusively digital. Since you haven't provided a HDMI to component video solution for the original poster, I will provide a good HDMI over coaxial solution which will solve his issue:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=&sku=817281&Q=&is=REG&A=details

This model will provide HDMI w/3D support over 4 coaxial cables without the need to run a brand new digital cable such as DVI or HDMI. Not sure if you have four wires in place, but with the red, green, and blue wires in place for component video, I'm thinking you may have one more for composite video, or a spare of some sort.


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post #8 of 17 Old 02-04-2014, 06:46 PM
 
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Originally Posted by AV_Integrated View Post

If you say so. Tell me which TVs accept 1080p over component, and which devices output 1080p over component, and how the sources I listed are supposed to be connected over component in THIS DAY AND AGE.

No, I'm suggesting that the original poster should spend some time figuring out how to get the digital signal which his current A/V receiver and sources support to the digital input his current projector supports as in the long run that is not only beneficial but will simplify the connectivity as more and more devices go exclusively digital. Since you haven't provided a HDMI to component video solution for the original poster, I will provide a good HDMI over coaxial solution which will solve his issue:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=&sku=817281&Q=&is=REG&A=details

This model will provide HDMI w/3D support over 4 coaxial cables without the need to run a brand new digital cable such as DVI or HDMI. Not sure if you have four wires in place, but with the red, green, and blue wires in place for component video, I'm thinking you may have one more for composite video, or a spare of some sort.

No, that's incorrect.

He doesn't have coax cables in his wall, he has component video cables (which aren't the same as coax cables). Really, it's good to answer the question asked rather than making up your own question.

In the future, I'd suggest you start a new thread titled something like "HDMI Over Four Coax Cables". I'm sure you don't need me helping you with your thread titles as well. It makes it easier to follow threads in the future if we all separate the subjects. I'm sure you understand and will help us. You can even provide your own answers to your own question in your own question thread and I won't append to that thread.

I'll get back to helping the OP now. Thanks for your support!
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post #9 of 17 Old 02-05-2014, 07:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alk3997 View Post

No, that's incorrect.

He doesn't have coax cables in his wall, he has component video cables (which aren't the same as coax cables). Really, it's good to answer the question asked rather than making up your own question.
Component video cables are almost always coaxial cables. It would not be correct to say otherwise. Typically they are RG-59 cables instead of RG-6, but that will work fine with the HDMI over coaxial converter I linked.
Mini-RGB cable, RGB cable, most standard cheap composite video and audio cables, etc. are all coaxial cables of one form or another.

Just trying to stay on subject and provide an actual answer for the OP which will allow him to get his digital source, digital receiver, and digital projector to all work together in the digital realm.


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post #10 of 17 Old 02-05-2014, 07:54 AM
 
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'Almost always' does not mean 'always' and the OP could be the exception. We don't know. it's irresponsible to tell someone to purchase something without knowing if it would work (unless you say it might work, which you did not).
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post #11 of 17 Old 02-05-2014, 08:26 AM
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Originally Posted by alk3997 View Post

'Almost always' does not mean 'always' and the OP could be the exception. We don't know. it's irresponsible to tell someone to purchase something without knowing if it would work (unless you say it might work, which you did not).
It does work, over coaxial cables. Since the OP hasn't been back here to discuss what cables he has then it hardly matters does it? I did qualify the extender early on as needing 4 coaxial cables and asking if they were there. Thanks though for letting me know that my solution was not acceptable to you.


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post #12 of 17 Old 02-05-2014, 08:36 AM
 
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You are quite welcome. I'll be happy to help you further in the future.
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post #13 of 17 Old 02-07-2014, 01:57 AM
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I would have thought if there are enough cables there already it would be feasible to use them to knock up some sort of DIY converter. I wouldn't go to the expense of buying that one linked above and neither would I go backwards and use component rather than HDMI/dvi. That's a backward step to me and I have come to appreciate the difference a digital connection makes over analog.
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post #14 of 17 Old 02-07-2014, 06:17 AM
 
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Originally Posted by ashyt16 View Post

I would have thought if there are enough cables there already it would be feasible to use them to knock up some sort of DIY converter. I wouldn't go to the expense of buying that one linked above and neither would I go backwards and use component rather than HDMI/dvi. That's a backward step to me and I have come to appreciate the difference a digital connection makes over analog.

Let's go through the signal chain and see how component video and HDMI video differ. When a Roku (with component video ports) or DirecTV STB or streaming box gets a signal into it, the video portion is compressed digital since we have no transmission method to send an uncompressed digital signal. So MPEG2 or h.264 or AVC comes into the box. The first thing the box has to do is to convert into an uncompressed video signal.

If no modifications to the video signal are required, this uncompressed video signal can be sent directly to the HDMI port. The uncompressed signal can also then be sent over component video using a D/A converter. Note that in both cases the same digital signal is being used as a source. The only difference is that the digital signal is being converted to analog in set top box / receiver.

When the TV, receives the HDMI signal. The signal then gets converted to analog in any typical flat panel. This analog signal is then sent to the panel electronics which generates the picture.

With the component video signal the analog signal is sent to the panel electronics for display. So, the D/A conversion is being done in the case of the TV.

The bottom line is that HDMI or component, it's the same source signal.

You are probably saying, but wait what about 1080p? There is no electrical reason 1080p can't be sent by component video. I have TVs that will accept 1080p over component video.

But the important thing about 1080p is that for the most part it's only Blu-Ray (and HD-DVD) that have native 1080p content. DirecTV and almost all streaming systems either send 1080i or 720p and then the receiving box converts to 1080p. There is just too much wasted bandwidth sending a 1080p signal that any good deinterlacer can turn into good 1080p. So services don't do this (bandwidth is money - particularly with DirecTV).

So, 1080p can be sent over component video (if the manufacturer desires or is allowed) and most content is not sent as 1080p.

In the end, the difference between HDMI and component video is where the D/A conversion occurs. With component video the conversion occurs in the player, with HDMI the conversion occurs in the TV. If you have a $50 streaming player, then its conversion is likely to be poor compared to a $2K TV. That's where the difference occurs.

But, in general, the 720p or 1080i picture over HDMI should match the 720p or 1080i picture coming from a component video cable. In the mid-2000s, it was very often true that the component video picture was better than the HDMI picture because the HDMI chipsets were so poor and overheated a lot. That's changed now so that component video and HDMI HD video should look the same, if both are tuned properly.

BTW, HDMI is sent at 10.2 gbps (and soon 18 gbps). It uses 19-conductor wire. So, to use 4 coax or 4 or any type of cable requires some type of conversion since that would only be 8 conductors. The argument you read was about whether a particular type of cable could support a 340MHz bandwidth (needed for 10.2 gbps) or not.
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post #15 of 17 Old 02-07-2014, 08:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ashyt16 View Post

I would have thought if there are enough cables there already it would be feasible to use them to knock up some sort of DIY converter. I wouldn't go to the expense of buying that one linked above and neither would I go backwards and use component rather than HDMI/dvi. That's a backward step to me and I have come to appreciate the difference a digital connection makes over analog.
Unfortunately, there isn't a passive way to send HDMI over standard cabling and you can't build your own HDMI cable yourself unless you are using specialized cabling and have the right stuff to build it. So, standard coaxial cables can't be used in some passive manner to give you a digital HDMI connection between two locations. The converter I listed above is a solution when HDMI hasn't been run.

If possible, it always makes sense to take a photo of all the cables which have been run to a display location and post them? If cat-5e is there, or two pieces, you may be able to get by with a lesser expensive HDMI converter, but at the end of the day, a proper solution is likely to run several hundred dollars. It certainly is worth taking a look at everything which is in place though so whatever viable solution can be recommended.

Of course, component HD video should look identical to HDMI video at the same resolution with decent cabling, but it just isn't realistic as a long term solution looking at the industry move towards digital exclusivity and content protection.

More unfortunate is the price point associated with the converters.

It's a very small percentage of people who can't just hook up a HDMI cable to their device, and because of that sales of these products are low and pricing remains high. Even worse when we are talking about coaxial delivery instead of cat-5e/6 delivery.


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post #16 of 17 Old 02-07-2014, 10:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ashyt16 View Post

I would have thought if there are enough cables there already it would be feasible to use them to knock up some sort of DIY converter. I wouldn't go to the expense of buying that one linked above and neither would I go backwards and use component rather than HDMI/dvi. That's a backward step to me and I have come to appreciate the difference a digital connection makes over analog.

:-) especially if one of them might be a vga cable otherwise maybe 18 coax ones might work.... :-)

Andy, you are having great patiences and lots of typing time.
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post #17 of 17 Old 02-07-2014, 11:26 AM
 
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:-) especially if one of them might be a vga cable otherwise maybe 18 coax ones might work.... :-)

Andy, you are have great patiences and lots of typing time.

Multitasking is my friend. smile.gif I was listening to something else while typing.
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