4k HDMI Switcher: Do they need to support HDCP 2.2 or are they transparent? - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 23 Old 07-06-2015, 02:01 AM - Thread Starter
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4k HDMI Switcher: Do they need to support HDCP 2.2 or are they transparent?

Hi Experts,

I'm planing to purchase a 4k HDMI switcher in the near future and I wonder if the switcher has to support HDCP 2.2 or if it is transparent because it only "switch" the untouched signal?

Thanks
Cheers
S.
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post #2 of 23 Old 07-06-2015, 09:46 AM
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Most specifications I have looked at call their specifications out for support of HDMI 1.4 only, which likely means they can't handle either UHD video or HDCP 2.2. The question becomes whether you want to drop $170+ on a HDMI switcher which can support a HDMI format which barely exists right now, or do you want to wait a year or two and get one for $50? You can get a 4x1 or 5x1 HDMI switch for about $30 which is reliable. Or, pick up an A/V receiver which supports HDMI 2.0 and HDCP 2.2.

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post #3 of 23 Old 07-06-2015, 01:21 PM
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'4K' could mean so many things!

Worrying about HDCP 2.2 could mean you are planning forward for Ultra HD Blu-ray - that could then mean HDR, 10-bit processing and expanded color spaces!

HDMI requires your switch is HDCP compliant - it's not simply throwing pins on a connector block.

Which Sources are you planning for?

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post #4 of 23 Old 07-07-2015, 01:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Fernand View Post
'4K' could mean so many things!

Worrying about HDCP 2.2 could mean you are planning forward for Ultra HD Blu-ray - that could then mean HDR, 10-bit processing and expanded color spaces!

HDMI requires your switch is HDCP compliant - it's not simply throwing pins on a connector block.

Which Sources are you planning for?

Joe
Hi,

My plan is to have an 4x2 HDMI switch which will support the upcoming UHD Blu Ray HDCP 2.2 & HDR requirement. If I understand right, there is no switch available which met the specifications?

Thanks
S.
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post #5 of 23 Old 07-07-2015, 08:13 AM
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Its going to be late 2015/early 2016 before you see anything to fully meet your requirements - with a few question marks over UHD/HDCP via a Matrix where not all of your Sink (Display) Devices are UHD capable!


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post #6 of 23 Old 07-07-2015, 10:18 AM
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That's kind of what I figured Joe. I looked online and there are some call outs for 5x1 HDMI switchers which specifically claim HDCP 2.2 support and the extended color capabilities of HDMI 2.0. It basically covers up to 18Gbs and support for 2160p/60.

At a $180 price point for a switcher, I would expect that level of support in a product.

Still, the UHD bandwagon is just getting bigger and bigger. At some point, all these products need to hit the streets.

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post #7 of 23 Old 07-08-2015, 02:23 AM
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Hi AV


'At a $180 price point for a switcher, I would expect that level of support in a product.' - it's all down to what Silicon is available, for now its pretty much a half way house so do you redesign a board and go into production for a short term on something which can equally become 'obsolete' for some clients in a few months time or hold out until new silicon is available (which fully supports Ultra-HD BD) and redo the range then!


UHD and 4k are definitely up for the most misused term of the year prize!


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post #8 of 23 Old 07-08-2015, 10:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Fernand View Post
UHD and 4k are definitely up for the most misused term of the year prize!
At Infocomm they announced that 4K has now been officially termed as any resolution above 3840x2160. So, UHD is now an 'officially accepted' resolution of 4K, and the 4K cinema formats also are accepted 4K terms.

UHD is still typically 3840x2160. But, much like HD was originally deemed acceptable for any natively 16:9 and 720p or higher screen which supported 720p or 1080i resolutions, 4K has now become a 'marketing' term rather than a specific resolution like WUXGA is.

Yeah, for most people I would buy a cheap switcher and then upgrade later on if need be.

But, I can see some people having a 4K computer that may have HDCP content on it that needs to be addressed today, and they may want/need to drop $200 on that advertised HDCP 2.2 and 18Gbs switcher.
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post #9 of 23 Old 07-13-2015, 10:28 AM
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'At Infocomm they announced that 4K has now been officially termed as any resolution above 3840x2160' - I missed that announcement, mind you it was a mad dash around the Halls!


Why would you want to further confuse folk - seems a daft move if true! Where do I plug my '4K' source into my UHD Display (which doesn't support 4K!!!)


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post #10 of 23 Old 07-26-2015, 04:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Ok, seems that I have to wait until HDCP2.2 and 4k has settled

Any recommendation for a good standard HDMI Switcher, where I can use 1 output for Beamer and the second one for AVR Receiver? I have a Crestron system, maybe there is a HDMI switcher also with RS232 support or something like "Auto-Detection" that only active sources will be switched to the output port!?

thanks
S.
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post #11 of 23 Old 08-01-2015, 05:49 AM
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Auto-detection - is usually best avoided if you have multiple Outputs (unless the Switch has the ability to lock Outputs A+B to always show the same Source).

RS232 - can be achieved on a reasonably priced 4x2 Matrix to Integrate with your Crestron system.

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post #12 of 23 Old 10-09-2015, 04:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Fernand View Post
Auto-detection - is usually best avoided if you have multiple Outputs (unless the Switch has the ability to lock Outputs A+B to always show the same Source).

RS232 - can be achieved on a reasonably priced 4x2 Matrix to Integrate with your Crestron system.

Joe
Joe, I really appreciated your earlier insights on this topic. I have a follow up question I've been meaning to ask.

I have an LG 65EF9500 that I need a switch and an extender for (via Cat5) I'm looking for something that is fully compliant with all the tech of the TV, of course. That means all the things you touched on: being fully compliant for a source like an UHD BluRay with HDR and other comparable sources.

At present, are there any options for such a switch? Or is it just in my best interest to get an AV Receiver to effectively act as the switch? I did notice this particular switch that is forthcoming, but currently unavailable: http://www.zigencorp.com/zig-sw41.html

And as for extenders, do you know of any? I have not seen a single one that meets the req's of UHD/HDR content.

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post #13 of 23 Old 10-10-2015, 05:35 PM
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Originally Posted by rewalt View Post
Joe, I really appreciated your earlier insights on this topic. I have a follow up question I've been meaning to ask.

I have an LG 65EF9500 that I need a switch and an extender for (via Cat5) I'm looking for something that is fully compliant with all the tech of the TV, of course. That means all the things you touched on: being fully compliant for a source like an UHD BluRay with HDR and other comparable sources.

At present, are there any options for such a switch? Or is it just in my best interest to get an AV Receiver to effectively act as the switch? I did notice this particular switch that is forthcoming, but currently unavailable: http://www.zigencorp.com/zig-sw41.html

And as for extenders, do you know of any? I have not seen a single one that meets the req's of UHD/HDR content.

rewalt
With all due respect to those that feel they need 4K... I have a home theater that has a screen of 5' high by ~9' wide. In cinemascope mode it is 5' high by ~12' wide. Maybe it's my old eyes but on a screen that size, I don't fell like I need more resolution.

Much debate on 4K but 1080P works for me, even at the screen size listed above.

4K is marketing hype,much like 3D.

In a theater with screens measureing in 10's of feet. it makes sense. For a 48-60" TV or the size I listed above I think it's a marketing ploy, much like 3D.

Sorry, with all due respect, I just don't see it. Please tell me where I am wrong.

Save your money.
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post #14 of 23 Old 10-10-2015, 05:48 PM
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I hear you 100%. I committed to the tv less for 4K and more for the contrast. It's a great pic with any input, imo.

But being that I need an extended and switch I want to make sure both are future proof to some degree. At least to meet the capabilities of the tv should I ever get heavy into 4K, HDR etc
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post #15 of 23 Old 10-13-2015, 08:57 AM
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I said this in another thread about 4K. It removes all the jagged edges from lettering and sports overlays. Between the contrast that comes with a 4K TV and the additional pixels, the image just appears sharper. It's not nearly as tangible as the upgrade from SD to HD but it is there.

That said, there is no long distance HDMI 2.0 on the market as far as I am aware. HDBaseT is still waiting on the HDBaseT 2.0 refresh which I suspect but cannot confirm will contain enough bandwidth for 18Gbs HDMI. If you look at the HDBaseT specs, I'm pretty sure all of the products on the market today will be limited to 10.2 Gbps. What that means is that you will get 4K 8bit 4:2:0 color @ 60Hz and 4K 12bit 4:4:4 @ 30/24Hz. HDR is not supported. It sufficient for 4K today but probably has a lifespan of 2 years before the big (70"+) HDR/WCG displays are in the $3K range. If you're playing in the $10-15K TV space, you may be able to find something cutting edge for a grand or two that will do 18Gbs HDMI.

While 4K is an upgrade in image quality, you have to know that you are buying bleeding edge and the full solution may not be there yet. You also need to know that you might replace what you bought inside of two or three years if you want to get the full 4K experience once the dust settles on the specification.

The only thing holding back 4K technically, is physical cable technology that is married to the HDMI specification. That's what is giving you the feeling that your 4K TV purchase today will last. 18Gbs HDMI and 36Gbs DisplayPort are short cable runs only which massively limits the ability to send video anywhere other than the TV sitting on top of the sources. The latter doesn't have HDCP so it is a non-starter in the CE world despite being the faster specification. So there's this looming question about signal transmission with respect to the future that appears to be a year or two away. (maybe more) Something will have to give for TV to not die at the 4K @30/60 Hz resolution. (Fiber, HDCP Added to DisplayPort, ...) When that happens, all the gear you bought today will rapidly become obsolete. 8K has no chance at happening without making the move to some other means of signal transport that can readily support the bandwidth.
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post #16 of 23 Old 12-26-2015, 06:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shepardos View Post
Hi Experts,

I'm planing to purchase a 4k HDMI switcher in the near future and I wonder if the switcher has to support HDCP 2.2 or if it is transparent because it only "switch" the untouched signal?

Thanks
Cheers
S.
I also need a 10 bit ( doesn't need to support HDR cuz I have a 2014 UHD tv w/no HDR support) 4K HDMI switcher with at least 2-3 HDMI 2.0 4K hdcp2.2 inputs and one 4K hdcp2.2 output. Can be push button or remote control switching but I prefer one w/a remote. I've seen at least 1 ( on Amazon I think but was like $150) cuz I have 1 10bit 4K HDCP 2.2 input on my tv. I really need only 2 HDMI source inputs and one 4K HDCP 2.2 output- cuz I'm just going to connect my direct tv, to rent 4K movies and the other for a future UHD player. Any suggestions? I've looked at monoprice and Amazon but no luck. Trying to find one with a relatively small price point and the remote mentioned for switching. Any links would be much appreciated.

Last edited by 4k fanatic; 12-26-2015 at 07:37 AM.
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post #17 of 23 Old 12-26-2015, 09:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kressilac View Post

While 4K is an upgrade in image quality, you have to know that you are buying bleeding edge and the full solution may not be there yet. You also need to know that you might replace what you bought inside of two or three years if you want to get the full 4K experience once the dust settles on the specification.

When that happens, all the gear you bought today will rapidly become obsolete. 8K has no chance at happening without making the move to some other means of signal transport that can readily support the bandwidth.
I've been saying that very same thing since the mass frenzy to buy the "best 4k tv out there". I think the old timers here understand that it's not just the tv that has to have the current specs, it's all of your other peripheral devices that need to be on the same page as well, hence a new receiver, game module, switcher, etc. However, the bulk of the consumer market doesn't come here so they are blissfully ignorant of what it all really means and will be sorely disappointed when their brand new 4k tv can't do what they thought it could. They will probably assume it's because they don't have the newest "HDMI 2.0 cable" and the cable mfrs will be more than willing to sell them one to solve their problems with all sorts of claims (like they do now).
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post #18 of 23 Old 12-26-2015, 11:37 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by 4k fanatic View Post
I also need a 10 bit ( doesn't need to support HDR cuz I have a 2014 UHD tv w/no HDR support) 4K HDMI switcher with at least 2-3 HDMI 2.0 4K hdcp2.2 inputs and one 4K hdcp2.2 output. Can be push button or remote control switching but I prefer one w/a remote. I've seen at least 1 ( on Amazon I think but was like $150) cuz I have 1 10bit 4K HDCP 2.2 input on my tv. I really need only 2 HDMI source inputs and one 4K HDCP 2.2 output- cuz I'm just going to connect my direct tv, to rent 4K movies and the other for a future UHD player. Any suggestions? I've looked at monoprice and Amazon but no luck. Trying to find one with a relatively small price point and the remote mentioned for switching. Any links would be much appreciated.

Have a look to HDFury Integral. It is a full HDMI2.0 2x2 Port Switch/Matrix with a great support! I just purchased one....
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post #19 of 23 Old 01-09-2016, 02:22 AM
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Thank you @Shepardos for the recommendation. My Sony XBR-65X900a has only 1 HDMI port that supports 4k but I have two 4k devices (Directv Genie Mini & Invidia Shield). I bought the Kanex Pro HDMI 2.0 3x1 4K Switcher from Fry's Electronics today. It works for the Genie Mini but not the Shield unfortunately. Anyone know why that is???

The Integral HDFury looks to be my answer, I'm just not very excited about the $199 price.

http://frys.com/product/8688190?site...H:MAIN_RSLT_PG
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post #20 of 23 Old 01-09-2016, 09:01 AM
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I just read somewhere (trying to find the story/reference again) that the HDFury is considering pulling the product because it basically circumvents HDCP 2.2 (by removing the new protocols and leaving just 1.1 intact) which has pissed off the movie studios to the point of bringing suit. I'll see if I can find the reference and post it unless someone beats me to it.
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post #21 of 23 Old 01-11-2016, 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Sandro Natale View Post
Thank you @Shepardos for the recommendation. My Sony XBR-65X900a has only 1 HDMI port that supports 4k but I have two 4k devices (Directv Genie Mini & Invidia Shield). I bought the Kanex Pro HDMI 2.0 3x1 4K Switcher from Fry's Electronics today. It works for the Genie Mini but not the Shield unfortunately. Anyone know why that is???

The Integral HDFury looks to be my answer, I'm just not very excited about the $199 price.

http://frys.com/product/8688190?site...H:MAIN_RSLT_PG
All four inputs on that television support 4K30 and also 4K60 4:2:0, but only one input port supports HDCP 2.2. (HDMI and HDCP are separate things. Having HDMI 2.0 does not guarantee HDCP 2.2, for example).

First, test your devices on the TV's other ports.

Second, consider an AVR. Instead of spending $199 for a switch, for around $350 or $400, you can have great sound as well as lots of device inputs. Sony AVRs integrate really well with Somy TV's CEC for single remote control operation.
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post #22 of 23 Old 02-24-2016, 06:26 PM
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I was doing a search and came across this thread. Thought I'd chime in, FWIW.

Went to Microcenter and found an IOGEAR GHDSW4K4. The IOGEAR site said it supported HDMI 2.0 and HDCP 2.2 so I had them price match Amazon's price of $21.

Hooked it up to my Onkyo NR636, and it has been able to play Amazon UHD from my AFTV2 and Netflix UHD from my Shield.

My set (Sharp 70TQ15U) only accepts 4K30 so I can't verify whether it will work for 4K60, but for $21, it does what I need it to do. Leaves an extra input for the Samsung UHD if I get around to trying it out.

Amazon link

Product website

  • Connect and switch between 4 HDMI inputs on 1 HDMI enabled HDTV or Display
  • Supported Resolutions: 480p, 720p, 1080i, 1080p and 2160p
  • No power adapter required - powered by the connected HDMI devices
  • HDMI 2.0 and HDCP 2.2 Compliant
  • Supports full 3D pass-through
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post #23 of 23 Old 08-15-2017, 02:24 AM
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I was doing a search and came across this thread. Thought I'd chime in, FWIW.

Went to Microcenter and found an IOGEAR GHDSW4K4. The IOGEAR site said it supported HDMI 2.0 and HDCP 2.2 so I had them price match Amazon's price of $21.

Hooked it up to my Onkyo NR636, and it has been able to play Amazon UHD from my AFTV2 and Netflix UHD from my Shield.

My set (Sharp 70TQ15U) only accepts 4K30 so I can't verify whether it will work for 4K60, but for $21, it does what I need it to do. Leaves an extra input for the Samsung UHD if I get around to trying it out.
  • Connect and switch between 4 HDMI inputs on 1 HDMI enabled HDTV or Display
  • Supported Resolutions: 480p, 720p, 1080i, 1080p and 2160p
  • No power adapter required - powered by the connected HDMI devices
  • HDMI 2.0 and HDCP 2.2 Compliant
  • Supports full 3D pass-through
Dear sir,

AFAIK, your TV Sharp 70TQ15U and receiver NR636 are both HDCP 2.2 ready. So this Switch might work with none HDCP 2.2 TV?!?
Shield -> this switch (HDCP 2.2) -> non HDCP 2.2 4k TV. Can we watching Netflix UHD with this setup?

Do you think if this work?

Many Thanks.
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