Whatever happened with HDMI 2.1? - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 64 Old 01-06-2017, 06:01 AM
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A new HDMI spec? Has it been a week already? Time to throw out my entire A/V chain again.

I'd still prefer we move to USB-C for all video and use the DP alt mode. I see USB-C as the true One Cable To Rule Them All.

I will admit though, this is finally the most forward thinking HDMI spec yet. Then again, maybe they are just finally catching up, eARC is almost ten years past the time when we started using lossless audio (in fact, when ARC was introduced, it was already 100% obsolete for me, I've literally never been able to use it). Maybe 2.1 won't be obsolete already when it finally comes out, just like every previous version of HDMI... (contrasted to Displayport which is always several years ahead of being able to even use its full potential for any given version)
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post #32 of 64 Old 01-06-2017, 08:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haiej View Post
Among the news, how do you guys interpret this point "The new specification will be available to all HDMI 2.0 Adopters and they will be notified when it is released early in Q2 2017." ?

It seems a bit vague.
By "HDMI 2.0 Adopters" do they refer to the manufacturers, or to us, the users/buyers ?

Does this means there is a chance that users/owners of 2016 AV Receivers models with HDMI 2.0 may receive a firmware update from the manufacturer to upgrade our 2016 AV Receivers models to HDMI 2.1 specs ?
"HDMI Adopters" is a term they use for companies that have joined the HDMI organisation, and paid to license the specification. They have a full list of current adopters on the website.
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post #33 of 64 Old 01-06-2017, 09:13 AM
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Originally Posted by scarabaeus View Post
"HDMI Adopters" is a term they use for companies that have joined the HDMI organisation, and paid to license the specification. They have a full list of current adopters on the website.
Yep. And "early adopters" are consumers who just have to have the latest and greatest and will be the ones purchasing the new tv's this year with eye catching phrases like "HDMI 2.1 compatible" and what not. Still way too early to get excited about HDMI 2.1. I'd much prefer the cable mfrs get their acts together so distance in connecting your 4k, 4:4:4 @60Hz devices is no longer an issue.
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post #34 of 64 Old 01-07-2017, 02:31 PM
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Anandtech is reporting that the 48gbps cable has a max length of 2 meters! What? So this is a non starter for most projectors.
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post #35 of 64 Old 01-07-2017, 02:49 PM
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Originally Posted by bombertodd View Post
Anandtech is reporting that the 48gbps cable has a max length of 2 meters! What? So this is a non starter for most projectors.
That would be for passive copper cables. There are also possible active copper (with amplification) and optical cables, which will be able to achieve longer lengths.
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post #36 of 64 Old 01-07-2017, 06:04 PM
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Originally Posted by scarabaeus View Post
That would be for passive copper cables. There are also possible active copper (with amplification) and optical cables, which will be able to achieve longer lengths.
That may be true, but........ copper is inconsistent, even with active termination for the current high end video standards, unless you have a very thick cable, and even then... optical is the best bet for now but there is no way to test it for HDMI 2.1 as of yet. If someone is considering HDMI 2.1 (I can't imagine why) then I'd install a fiber cable with active connectors that can be changed and do so in a conduit.
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post #37 of 64 Old 01-09-2017, 08:44 AM
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I can't find any info on the AWG of the 48G cable. If they really limiting it to 2 meters, They are probably trying to stay thin (24-2 AWG may be?).
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post #38 of 64 Old 01-09-2017, 08:50 AM
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^^^^ I am doubtful of any cable claims made by any cable mfr.
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post #39 of 64 Old 01-09-2017, 12:04 PM
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Implementation of the cables is up to the respective manufacturers, including the choice of material (copper, glass, airwaves, magic, etc.), length, and thickness. The HDMI spec only states how they have to behave at the connection ends.
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post #40 of 64 Old 01-09-2017, 12:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scarabaeus View Post
Implementation of the cables is up to the respective manufacturers, including the choice of material (copper, glass, airwaves, magic, etc.), length, and thickness. The HDMI spec only states how they have to behave at the connection ends.
I vote for magical implementation of the cable specs for HDMI 2.1 because everything else has worked so well for HDMI 2.0a
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post #41 of 64 Old 01-10-2017, 09:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scarabaeus View Post
Implementation of the cables is up to the respective manufacturers, including the choice of material (copper, glass, airwaves, magic, etc.), length, and thickness. The HDMI spec only states how they have to behave at the connection ends.
Really?
Oh boy, "fun" years ahead of us.
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post #42 of 64 Old 01-10-2017, 10:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djsvetljo View Post
Really?
Oh boy, "fun" years ahead of us.
Hey, it's not a bad thing, as such. This is where cable makers have an opportunity to shine. If they can distinguish themselfes from the competition, then you'll be more likely to buy their product.

If you look at the "long cables for HDR" topic, the only one that currently works for more than 30 feet at 18 Gbit/s seems to be the Celerity optical cable. Though pricey, many will consider that one, which is a win for Celerity above other makers.

Captialism at work, as designed!
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post #43 of 64 Old 01-10-2017, 10:36 AM
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^^^

with respect I strongly disagree

if they are in a position to develop and offer for sale a new standard, they should test and identify cables that support same, and list limitations of cabling: another example where we are beta testers: now for cables

would you buy a high performance car where the manufacturer says the tires have not been tested or certified to support it?
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please take the high road in every post:do not respond to or quote a problematic post: report it
HDMI.org:what a mess this is a red flag issue
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post #44 of 64 Old 01-10-2017, 11:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markrubin View Post
^^^

with respect I strongly disagree

if they are in a position to develop and offer for sale a new standard, they should test and identify cables that support same, and list limitations of cabling: another example where we are beta testers: now for cables

would you buy a high performance car where the manufacturer says the tires have not been tested or certified to support it?
You seem to misunderstand my point. What you are asking is exactly what HDMI is doing: They provide a compliance test specification for HDMI cables, to make sure they are in compliance with their technical specification. Essentially, if they can pass the signal correctly from one end to the other.

To achieve that, they do not need to specify how the cable is build. They only specify what signal goes into the cable at one end, and what is supposed to come out at the other.

It's not the business of HDMI to tell manufacturers what AWG wire to use, whether to add amplification, or convert the electrical signal to light and back.
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post #45 of 64 Old 01-10-2017, 12:18 PM
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Originally Posted by scarabaeus View Post
You seem to misunderstand my point. What you are asking is exactly what HDMI is doing: They provide a compliance test specification for HDMI cables, to make sure they are in compliance with their technical specification. Essentially, if they can pass the signal correctly from one end to the other.
The problem with that is that it's not mandatory for cable mfrs to purchase a license to be part of the ATC (Authorized Testing Center) program. All ATC's must follow the exact same certification protocols as set forth by HDMI Licensing, regardless of who makes the cables, in order to pass, and affix, a Premium High Speed HDMI cable certificate of authenticity on the cable. So you end up with multiple mfrs claiming certification when you have no idea of how they tested the cable, whether they are following HDMI Licensing or whether they have their own, "better" certification program. Compliance test specifications, certification, is a great idea if everyone agrees on how that is to be achieved.
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post #46 of 64 Old 01-10-2017, 12:30 PM
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Otto said it best:

look at at the all the posts on AVS dealing with HDMI compatibility issues: look at my sig

it is getting so the average user who wants to enjoy 4K in his home will face frustrating and expensive compatibility issues: and it lets individual OEM's blame the cable or the receiver or the display if his device does not work properly: and if you are fortunate enough to get the video to work, you still have to deal with getting HD audio to work

no one needs to care how the cable is built....they just want to know if it will work
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post #47 of 64 Old 01-11-2017, 08:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markrubin View Post
Otto said it best:

look at at the all the posts on AVS dealing with HDMI compatibility issues: look at my sig

it is getting so the average user who wants to enjoy 4K in his home will face frustrating and expensive compatibility issues: and it lets individual OEM's blame the cable or the receiver or the display if his device does not work properly: and if you are fortunate enough to get the video to work, you still have to deal with getting HD audio to work

no one needs to care how the cable is built....they just want to know if it will work
Exactly.

Furthermore, I think the protocol/interface should have self diagnostic messages - For example, week signal, insufficient bandwidth, unsupported format and so on. HDMI testers are ridiculously expensive and often manufacturers specifications are not complete or don't work as expected.
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post #48 of 64 Old 01-16-2017, 06:40 AM
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When I moved from my old house a year ago, where my projector was ceiling mounted, I put it on a stand here at the new place. I figured I'd keep all the HDMI cable runs short until all this bandwidth stuff gets sorted out. My Chief ceiling mounting hardware is stored in my garage.

What about new copy protection with this new HDMI spec? Any rumors to replace HDCP 2.2 with something more robust? I can't believe the studios, with their paranoia, would let a chance like this go bye without insisting on a new copy protection scheme for the new standard.

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post #49 of 64 Old 01-16-2017, 10:22 AM
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I haven't heard anything about HDCP 2.2x but that's a good point. That's why I'm not concerning myself at all with HDMI 2.1. Purchasing a tv this year, if they are offered, with HDMI 2.1 might not be good idea unless the chipsets are flashable to whatever the comparable HDCP version will be. I think this is the year to wait and see what happens with the mfrs and HDMI 2.1 first and then maybe start looking at the 2018 models. However, being as the connection issues with HDMI 2.0 and 4k, 4:4:4 @60Hz are nowhere being stabilized, I think cabling will be an even bigger issue with HDMI 2.1.
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post #50 of 64 Old 09-27-2017, 05:57 AM
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ALL HAIL BELKIN!

48Gbps HDMI 2.1 cable, 2-meters, $30

http://www.belkin.com/us/p/P-AV10175/
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post #51 of 64 Old 09-27-2017, 06:08 AM
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Nope!

Package Includes:

Ultra High Speed HDMI Cable


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post #52 of 64 Old 09-27-2017, 09:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nathanddrews View Post
ALL HAIL BELKIN!

48Gbps HDMI 2.1 cable, 2-meters, $30

http://www.belkin.com/us/p/P-AV10175/
Where do you see it supports HDMI 2.1/48Gbps? It's implied but not actually stated, nor does it mention any testing/certification. Marketing at its best.

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post #53 of 64 Old 09-27-2017, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by nathanddrews View Post
ALL HAIL BELKIN!

48Gbps HDMI 2.1 cable, 2-meters, $30

http://www.belkin.com/us/p/P-AV10175/
That is what we in the industry call LEEEROY JENKINNNNNS.

Last I checked, this morning, HDMI hasn't released the 2.1 specs and requirements in the portal. Not sure how they were able to get their hands on the spec before everyone else.

Snake Oil, these aren't any different than any other High Speed HDMI Cable.
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post #54 of 64 Old 09-27-2017, 01:49 PM
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^^^

perhaps just a sample of new products to come, as new HDMI specs, intended to fix shortcomings in earlier HDMI specs, make unsubstantiated claims

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post #55 of 64 Old 09-27-2017, 03:03 PM
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Not all the features of HDMI 2.1 are finalized, but the design and speed requirements of the cable have been for a long time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Otto Pylot View Post
Where do you see it supports HDMI 2.1/48Gbps? It's implied but not actually stated, nor does it mention any testing/certification. Marketing at its best.
Quote:
Originally Posted by neocataboi View Post
That is what we in the industry call LEEEROY JENKINNNNNS.

Last I checked, this morning, HDMI hasn't released the 2.1 specs and requirements in the portal. Not sure how they were able to get their hands on the spec before everyone else.

Snake Oil, these aren't any different than any other High Speed HDMI Cable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by markrubin View Post
^^^

perhaps just a sample of products to come as new HDMI specs, intended to fix shortcomings in earlier HDMI specs, come out with unsubstantiated claims
Click the questions and answers:

Philip
· 2 days ago
Is it version HDMI 1.4 or 2.0?

Belkin Support
· 2 days ago
It is HDMI version 2.1, Philip.


RaySajuuk
· 14 days ago
Its this cable the same on Apple website? if so, since the speed is rated at 48Gbps on Apple website, does this mean it is HDMI 2.1 standard cable?

Belkin Support
· 9 days ago
Yes, it is the same product on Apple website and it is an HDMI 2.1 cable.

Last edited by nathanddrews; 09-27-2017 at 03:06 PM.
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post #56 of 64 Old 09-27-2017, 03:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nathanddrews View Post
Not all the features of HDMI 2.1 are finalized, but the design and speed requirements of the cable have been for a long time.







Click the questions and answers:

Philip
· 2 days ago
Is it version HDMI 1.4 or 2.0?

Belkin Support
· 2 days ago
It is HDMI version 2.1, Philip.


RaySajuuk
· 14 days ago
Its this cable the same on Apple website? if so, since the speed is rated at 48Gbps on Apple website, does this mean it is HDMI 2.1 standard cable?

Belkin Support
· 9 days ago
Yes, it is the same product on Apple website and it is an HDMI 2.1 cable.
^^^ Not necessarily. when HDMI.org released the Premium Certification program everyone knew what the performance spec was and expected to meet the performance spec alone.

They then outlined a mechanical spec in the final release that required many cables to be reworked to meet the certification.

I'm sure HDMI.org is going to have a similar program put in place for HDMI 2.1. This mechanical spec is part of the reason why all manufactures don't buy into the program, because they will need to rebuild their product to meet the specs.

There is clearly some misinformation from their end because they aren't using a cable any different than anyone else. It doesn't even have the HDMI Premium High Speed Certification which would clearly squash any doubts into it's performance claims.
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post #57 of 64 Old 09-27-2017, 03:35 PM
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^^^ HDMI 2.1 specs were announced in January 2017 and were expected to be finalized somewhere between April and June of this year, but are expected to be pretty much what was announced in January. My guess is that cable mfrs are trying to get a jump on the Black Friday/Holiday Season by pushing HDMI 2.1 "compatible" cables to the unsuspecting buying public. Until I see a certified (ATC) HDMI 2.1 cable (probably 6' max) that has been put into use by members here who have devices with current HDMI 2.1 chipsets in them, it's all smoke and mirrors.
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post #58 of 64 Old 09-27-2017, 03:52 PM
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The time is going to come, when we no longer bother with a cable for anything at all. Will not that be nice. Everything will simply be transmitted by wireless, from component to component.

Last time I signed up for a cable deal here, I had some fun speaking with the installer. Apparently all the ends they were using were no stainless steel, and they by default, remove all copper ends at the house. I had mentioned to him, not to worry , the time will come when the solution will be to get rid of the cable completely.

I got a surprise answer from him. These days they spend two hours installing Cable to give you your phone , TV and internet, and people
often do promo hopping...................... moving back and forth between providers. He said soon there will be no need for the installer anymore, but that he would be retired by then.......... laughing. He said soon you will see funny looking boxes everywhere, and that
they will connect and disconnect everyone for all services at the push of a button. No need for an installer anymore.

It is not much of a further step to begin eliminating the cable completely in the home. Wireless just keeps getting better and better.
I was downloading at 5gb a second just over my laptop 5g wireless.

So it will be wireless to the home. Wireless from cable box to tv. By By cable manufacturers.
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post #59 of 64 Old 09-27-2017, 05:36 PM
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Originally Posted by johnplayerson View Post

So it will be wireless to the home. Wireless from cable box to tv. By By cable manufacturers.
Wireless may be the future but it will be a very long time before wireless will successfully, and reliably, be able to transmit the higher audio/video standards that we can do now with copper based or fiber based cables.
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post #60 of 64 Old 09-27-2017, 06:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Otto Pylot View Post
Wireless may be the future but it will be a very long time before wireless will successfully, and reliably, be able to transmit the higher audio/video standards that we can do now with copper based or fiber based cables.
It will not be that long lol. I can download at 5 megabytes per second on my cable line wireless with 5g connection. I can
stream any 4 k content that much easier. I am sure they will figure it out. They already have consumer units that will do a good job wirelessly transmitting 1080p. The bigger battle is getting users to cut the cable, as most view a direct .connection as best, but that changes with time. People will not need hdmi or cables to watch 4k streaming on netflix.
Eventually the TV will be replaced by an all in one computer system, and everyone will just have one more pc in the home.

A Good amplifier requires a adequate power supply, It does not matter what the amplifier is capable of if the power supply will not provide the power required. Most amplifiers have under rated power supplies. It is up to you to make sure you get the ones that are least under rated if at all.

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