TEST REPORTS | HDMI CABLES WHICH PROPERLY AND RELIABLY SUPPORT 18GBPS & HDMI 2.0b - Page 13 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #361 of 404 Old 09-30-2017, 08:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JC Denton View Post
Anyone care to test the new Belkin ultra-high-speed HDMI 2.1 cable from the apple store?
I don't think it claims to be a HDMI 2.1 cable, does it? I know it says 48Gbps, which implies it, but it doesn't actually say it.

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post #362 of 404 Old 09-30-2017, 08:51 AM
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Originally Posted by JC Denton View Post
Anyone care to test the new Belkin ultra-high-speed HDMI 2.1 cable from the apple store?

There is no such thing as an HDMI 2.1 cable. They are either active or passive High Speed HDMI. The claims by Belkin are questionable at best. The HDMI 2.1 hardware specs which were announced in January are not ratified yet. If you purchase the cable now there is no way to test it for full HDMI 2.1 compliance because there aren't any consumer devices yet that have the fully compliant HDMI 2.1 chipsets in them. This is pure marketing trying to get ahead of what's coming for the unsuspecting consumer this holiday shopping season. You're going to start seeing terms like "HDMI 2.1 compatible" very soon which may or may not work in the future. There's also no testing or certification of these cables other than Belkin's claims that they work. They are certainly not ATC certified.
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post #363 of 404 Old 09-30-2017, 10:39 AM
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HELP - 75ft Monoprice SlimRun AV HDR Cable, 4K@60Hz, roughed in-wall backwards

12 week basement remodel just wrapped up and start to unpack all the new Audio/Video/Receiver in the storage room where all three HMDI cables and all speaker wire were pulled back for the projector, and two TV's. When I was plugging everything in I noticed the electricians screwed up running the HDMI from the Bar TV and Projector TV and the ends that landed in the storage room for the rack have a small flag sticker on them that state "DISPLAY."

Neither cable to the Bar TV or Projector are responding to any signal from the AVR in the rack. All the drywall is complete and hard lid ceilings, all painting is done and flooring is in. What options to I have.....

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post #364 of 404 Old 09-30-2017, 11:03 AM
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HDMI 2.1 Cable - as above just marketing guff.

Options - do you have any spare CAT Cables in the wall?

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post #365 of 404 Old 09-30-2017, 11:26 AM
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@MillerTimeISU - did you install your cabling in-conduit?
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post #366 of 404 Old 09-30-2017, 12:06 PM
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Joe - I ran total of (3) Cat6e to the projector ceiling outlet. Only one is being used as network cable to UHD60 in ceiling.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Fernand View Post
HDMI 2.1 Cable - as above just marketing guff.

Options - do you have any spare CAT Cables in the wall?

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post #367 of 404 Old 09-30-2017, 12:07 PM
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Conduit path from projector to rack was VE'd out....


Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Fernand View Post
HDMI 2.1 Cable - as above just marketing guff.

Options - do you have any spare CAT Cables in the wall?

Joe


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Quote:
Originally Posted by Otto Pylot View Post
@MillerTimeISU - did you install your cabling in-conduit?

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post #368 of 404 Old 10-01-2017, 12:17 PM
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The CAT6 is likely your saviour - with a few limitations in terms of signal formats you can pass through the required electronics.

The most reliable HDMI over CAT solutions are those based on HDBaseT (HDBT).

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post #369 of 404 Old 10-02-2017, 04:39 PM
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Regardless of whether it's really HDMI 2.1 or just marketing hype, if it can outperform HDMI 2.0b by even a couple gbs and also supports all 2.0b features, it'd be worth the price tag if 2M is adequate for your needs. I'd test it out myself, but I lack all the high tech equipment i know some of you guys got.
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post #370 of 404 Old 10-02-2017, 05:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JC Denton View Post
Regardless of whether it's really HDMI 2.1 or just marketing hype, if it can outperform HDMI 2.0b by even a couple gbs and also supports all 2.0b features, it'd be worth the price tag if 2M is adequate for your needs. I'd test it out myself, but I lack all the high tech equipment i know some of you guys got.
It is marketing hype. Any well made Premium High Speed HDMI cable will perform just as well, especially at 6'. I wouldn't be too concerned about outperforming the HDMI 2.0b spec. A lot depends on whether you have the corresponding HDMI chipsets in your devices.
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post #371 of 404 Old 10-02-2017, 07:38 PM
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A question for the cable experts:

I've finally added a 4K source, so I had to get a new 40ft cable to my projector in order to pass it. Longest copper cable I could find to work was a 35ft, so I got a 50ft DTech fiber cable which passes 4k HDR 10bit at 4:2:0 no problem when I'm watching the projector.

The problem is: I have two displays so I run two HDMI outputs from my AVR. When the projector is off and I use this fiber cable, the AVR will not pass any video to the TV. This only occurs with this cable - not with any of 4 copper cables I've tried. This is not an AVR problem as I've tested with one Denon and one Yamaha with exactly the same results.

If the projector is on everything works perfectly. Even with the projector removed from AC power, if both ends of this fiber cable are attached, no video will pass to the TV. If I unhook either end of the cable, everything works again.

I use no ARC, and no CEC anywhere.

Will I have this problem with all fiber cables, or is it something about this particular cable?

Anyone who can shed some light would be a huge help.

Thanks so much,

Pip

Last edited by Pip; 10-02-2017 at 07:42 PM.
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post #372 of 404 Old 10-03-2017, 02:11 AM
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AVR - try moving the Fibre HDMI cable to the 'other' HDMI Output.

AVR - try toggling the AVR between Out A and Out B rather than A+B, if it has that option.

TV - does it support the same range of signal formats as the Projector and do you have Conversion disabled on the AVR (if it offers it)?

Hybrid Fibre HDMI - I can run multiple Outputs on my Arcam and Yamaha AVR's using the Ruipro Hybrid Fibre cables without the issue you describe.

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post #373 of 404 Old 10-03-2017, 06:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Fernand View Post
AVR - try moving the Fibre HDMI cable to the 'other' HDMI Output.
I tried that - no change.


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AVR - try toggling the AVR between Out A and Out B rather than A+B, if it has that option.
This does work, but it's not a solution for my setup. If A+B was used when AVR was last powered off, no video will be output to TV, therefore no way to see AVR menu to change the setting.


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TV - does it support the same range of signal formats as the Projector
TV 1080, projector supports 4K, but I can limit it to 1080. I've tried both ways with the same result. Even with the projector unplugged from AC, the problem persists.



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and do you have Conversion disabled on the AVR (if it offers it)?
Conversion is enabled on the Denon (There's no on screen display without it.) but conversion id disabled on the Yamaha. Same problem either way.


Quote:
Hybrid Fibre HDMI - I can run multiple Outputs on my Arcam and Yamaha AVR's using the Ruipro Hybrid Fibre cables without the issue you describe.

Joe

Do you think it's the non hybrid nature of the cable which is causing this. Is there a reason why I would need some copper to get this to work?

It seems to be an HDMI issue with the fiber cable. With both ends of that cable physically plugged in, and no power to the projector (either in standby or unplugged completely) I get an HDMI error message from my Tivo to the other HDMI output. With the projector on, everything works perfectly.

Thanks so much for your help.

Pip

Last edited by Pip; 10-03-2017 at 06:18 AM.
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post #374 of 404 Old 10-03-2017, 09:52 AM
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With the Fibre cable there is conversion of the EDID, HDCP etc going on - whereas with a Hybrid Fibre cable those Communications lines act like a conventional copper cable, there is a marked difference in operation between the two cable types with the 'all Fibre' cables taking much longer to handshake.

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post #375 of 404 Old 10-03-2017, 01:06 PM
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Quote:
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With the Fibre cable there is conversion of the EDID, HDCP etc going on - whereas with a Hybrid Fibre cable those Communications lines act like a conventional copper cable, there is a marked difference in operation between the two cable types with the 'all Fibre' cables taking much longer to handshake.

Joe
Thanks Joe.

My DTech cable will never approve the handshake with the projector off no matter how long I wait. Do you know if all the Ruipro fiber cables are hybrid? There is no mention at all of hybrid or copper on their website for optical products.

Is this: https://www.amazon.com/RUIPRO-Fiber-...01N6HM1RL?th=1 one a hybrid?

Thanks for the advice,

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post #376 of 404 Old 10-03-2017, 02:00 PM
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Ruipro are a Hybrid cable - the cable you link to is the 'old' version (Black Hoods), the current cable has Silver Hoods.

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post #377 of 404 Old 10-03-2017, 02:16 PM
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So let me ask the stupid question what happens next year when the new Hdmi spec is finally released and we need 48 Gbps of speed do we start this whole process again ?


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post #378 of 404 Old 10-03-2017, 03:18 PM
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Ruipro are a Hybrid cable - the cable you link to is the 'old' version (Black Hoods), the current cable has Silver Hoods.

Joe
What's the difference between hoods?

Pip
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post #379 of 404 Old 10-03-2017, 05:54 PM
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It’s what’s under the hood

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post #380 of 404 Old 10-03-2017, 05:57 PM
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Once HDMI 2.1 Features start appearing and we have higher bandwidth signals we will all be looking for the New, as yet not available, 48G certified cables - though when you will actually need one will be a different story.

https://www.hdmi.org/manufacturer/hdmi_2_1/

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post #381 of 404 Old 10-03-2017, 09:21 PM
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It’s what’s under the hood

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What's under the hood then? Can I expect the black hoods to work well?

Thanks,

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post #382 of 404 Old 10-03-2017, 11:50 PM
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The new designed cable which added shielding for 14/17 copper wire will come out soon for ARC 192Khz issue
Thank you very much :

Thomas
Thomas/Anyone else, do you know where I can purchase this "redesigned" cable in the US? Do the ones sold on Amazon have this redesign? I need a 10m cable that can support DD+ for ATMOS over ARC.
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post #383 of 404 Old 10-04-2017, 02:54 AM
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Pip - if you are purchasing ensure you are being supplied the cable with the Silver hoods, those are the 18 Gbps cables. The Black hoods are the 'old' 12 Gbps cable. Not every website will have updated their pics.

pearsco - the factory is on a shut down this week, will update when I get more info.

Joe
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post #384 of 404 Old 10-04-2017, 11:03 PM
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So let me ask the stupid question what happens next year when the new Hdmi spec is finally released and we need 48 Gbps of speed do we start this whole process again ?


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Keep in mind that much of that bandwidth is attained through a DCS compression scheme delineated in the standard. This will require a new HDMI hardware interface for sure. Nevertheless, it'll be years before we'll need all that bandwidth though I suspect it'll eliminate much of HDMI's dodginess now experienced today and should be more reliable especially for longer cable runs provided the compression scheme actually works. Really, the only compelling reason for HDMI 2.1 is it finally addressing the longstanding deficiency of ARC with HDMI 2.1's implementation of eARC. On the other hand, this is HDMI, so the 2,1 spec for Ethernet is, (drum roll), 100 Mb/s, a data rate that was passé in the 90's. Thankfully, no one has designed an Ethernet-over-HDMI solution but should someone do so they'll be confronted with that woefully dated bandwidth. But as I said this is HDMI. Given the new interface requirements for HMDI 2.1 shouldn't this be an ideal time to finally address the HDMI plug's deficiencies once and for all. Imagine this, a HDMI plug that actually stays plugged in.

Don't you just wish HDMI would crawl off to some darkened corner and die a sad, lonely death?
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post #385 of 404 Old 10-05-2017, 08:56 AM
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^^^^ my understanding is that eARC will use the ethernet channel (wire if you will) to accomplish that so there still won't be a true ethernet solution. Besides, it appears that device mfrs will never embrace HDMI ethernet so it may as well be used for something useful.
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post #386 of 404 Old 10-05-2017, 09:44 AM
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^^^^ my understanding is that eARC will use the ethernet channel (wire if you will) to accomplish that so there still won't be a true ethernet solution. Besides, it appears that device mfrs will never embrace HDMI ethernet so it may as well be used for something useful.
Thanks for the 411. Likewise, a real issue today is that the EDID exchange and HDCP run on the same wires too, in part, explaining all the handshake problems we are experiencing. But, as I said, after all this is HDMI. They really must be enamoured with that plug layout. Heck, Apple iPhone jettisoned 3.5mm headphone jacks and routinely changes plug configuration on their devices, even the new Samsung Galaxys have the USB C plug as do the new Google Pixel 2s. Certainly, the A/V industry can tolerate a new standard. Perhaps, some manufacturer out there will have the cajones and put DisplayPort interfaces on their equipment and all this crapola will disappear.

Don't you just wish HDMI would crawl off to some darkened corner and die a sad, lonely death?
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^^^^ I agree about HDMI. It's really a p.i.t.a but if you look at who the original HDMI group consisted of, I doubt we're going to see a whole scale change for a very long time. Maybe the device mfrs will agree to installing alternate connections but that's not a simple as it sounds because of other hardware and board considerations.
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post #388 of 404 Old 10-11-2017, 11:31 AM
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Quote:
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Pip - if you are purchasing ensure you are being supplied the cable with the Silver hoods, those are the 18 Gbps cables. The Black hoods are the 'old' 12 Gbps cable. Not every website will have updated their pics.

pearsco - the factory is on a shut down this week, will update when I get more info.

Joe

Were you able to find out more info? I grew a bit impatient and ordered a 10m Ruipro (with silver hoods) from Amazon. I have soo far been unable to pass DD+ over ARC with it, just DD @ 48khz. Rock solid performance otherwise.
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post #389 of 404 Old 10-13-2017, 01:23 AM
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Cable stock - no changes to the production cables as yet.

DD+ - is not supported over ARC by very many devices and most manufacturers will tell you it is currently outside of the scope of ARC. There is a Thread here on AVS listing Display's and AVR's which are known to support DD+ via ARC - Dolby Digital Plus (DD+) / Atmos over HDMI ARC

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post #390 of 404 Old 10-13-2017, 05:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Fernand View Post
Pip - if you are purchasing ensure you are being supplied the cable with the Silver hoods, those are the 18 Gbps cables. The Black hoods are the 'old' 12 Gbps cable. Not every website will have updated their pics.

pearsco - the factory is on a shut down this week, will update when I get more info.

Joe
Not to be disagreeable, but this was the email I received when I asked the seller on Amazon USA about the differences between the silver ends and black ends on this cable:

"Thank you for your inquiry.
Actually both the black and silver ends are the same version.
We just changed the ends material and color from several months ago.
The previous is black and the current is silver.
You will get a silver ends cable if you buy it from Amazon although the product photos from Amazon show the color is black."
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