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post #1 of 16 Old 09-23-2017, 02:41 AM - Thread Starter
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Old HDMI for 4k

I got my home back about 2 years ago and the previous home owner had already wired the theater (it was never set up). I am in the process of setting up the theater and had a question on wiring. The HDMI was already wired long ago and I want to know if there is some adapter or something I can put on it so that it will be able to run 4K content if needed. The AV guy who set it up said there is some adapter that can be added and was talking about active vs passive, but I have no real idea what he meant.
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post #2 of 16 Old 09-23-2017, 08:49 AM
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Originally Posted by DrUNC83 View Post
The HDMI was already wired long ago and I want to know if there is some adapter or something I can put on it so that it will be able to run 4K content if needed. The AV guy who set it up said there is some adapter that can be added and was talking about active vs passive, but I have no real idea what he meant.
Given "already wired long ago" I would imagine to be able to pass 18GB effectively regardless of your current HDMI cable length you would need a new high performance HDMI cable/s with or without an adapter.

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post #3 of 16 Old 09-23-2017, 08:50 AM
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An active HDMI connection allows you to extend your connection longer than 25' without any loss of signal. A passive connection is limited somewhat to about 25'. This works fine for 1080p. With 4K and especially 4K HDR this becomes much more challenging and you will probably need to replace the cable.
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What was the adapter he was talking about?

He said something like the old active ones were stuck to 1 standard but passive can pass any type of signal, just may need an adapter or something
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post #5 of 16 Old 09-23-2017, 05:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Otto Pylot View Post
An active HDMI connection allows you to extend your connection longer than 25' without any loss of signal. A passive connection is limited somewhat to about 25'. This works fine for 1080p. With 4K and especially 4K HDR this becomes much more challenging and you will probably need to replace the cable.
TEST REPORTS | HDMI CABLES WHICH PROPERLY AND RELIABLY SUPPORT 18GBPS & HDMI 2.0b

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post #6 of 16 Old 09-23-2017, 07:19 PM
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Premium High Speed HDMI cables are the trademarked name for cables that have been tested and certified by an ATC (Authorized Testing Center), which is the certification program designed and approved by HDMI.org. The certification is only good to 25'. All the other descriptions given by cable mfrs are just marketing b.s. and carefully worded to make the consumer think they are getting more than they actually are. Active cables are designed to extend the reliability longer than 25' but are not ATC certified. 18Gbps is difficult to reliably deliver longer than about 20' because of the HDMI chipsets versions involved (sink and source), length of run, and cable setup. There are no guarantees for reliability for 4k HDR at lengths longer than about 20' for copper-based cables. Fiber is the best option for most folks.
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post #7 of 16 Old 09-23-2017, 07:26 PM
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Originally Posted by DrUNC83 View Post
What was the adapter he was talking about?

He said something like the old active ones were stuck to 1 standard but passive can pass any type of signal, just may need an adapter or something
Probably an active extender which is powered by an external source or draws a little power from the HDMI sink end. There is nothing magical about an active cable other than it can extend the cable run longer than 25' reliably for 1080p. Once you get into 4k HDR it becomes more complicated and your best bet is a fiber cable for distances longer than about 20'. Current copper-based HDMI cables can theoretically meet most of HDMI 2.0b specs but in reality there is a lot more to getting a consistently reliable signal path than just the cable.
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post #8 of 16 Old 09-23-2017, 08:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Otto Pylot View Post
Probably an active extender which is powered by an external source or draws a little power from the HDMI sink end. There is nothing magical about an active cable other than it can extend the cable run longer than 25' reliably for 1080p. Once you get into 4k HDR it becomes more complicated and your best bet is a fiber cable for distances longer than about 20'. Current copper-based HDMI cables can theoretically meet most of HDMI 2.0b specs but in reality there is a lot more to getting a consistently reliable signal path than just the cable.
Ok so here is where I am. House was wired in 2009 and has HDMI in place. No idea what it is. I am getting a Epson 5040 UB projector and setting up home theater. I will probably watch much 4K content as I am not getting a 4K DVD player. I will be using the projector mostly to stream 1080 movies and sporting events. That said, I know the Epson is not true 4K, but I would like to have the ability/option to at least be able to see content unconverted should I ever want to. Are my cables going to need to be changed out or would I need an active extender or should it be able to give me what I need as is?
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post #9 of 16 Old 09-24-2017, 08:50 AM
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Originally Posted by DrUNC83 View Post
Ok so here is where I am. House was wired in 2009 and has HDMI in place. No idea what it is. I am getting a Epson 5040 UB projector and setting up home theater. I will probably watch much 4K content as I am not getting a 4K DVD player. I will be using the projector mostly to stream 1080 movies and sporting events. That said, I know the Epson is not true 4K, but I would like to have the ability/option to at least be able to see content unconverted should I ever want to. Are my cables going to need to be changed out or would I need an active extender or should it be able to give me what I need as is?
How long is your cables run? 1080p is usually not a problem up to a point, but depending on the gauge of the wire you may be able to get away with an active extender, as long as you've got a power source close by (wall outlet). Active HDMI cables have the chipsets built-in to the connector end so they draw their power from the device that they are connected to. All you can do is try. You may get lucky. However, if you start getting sparkles and/or dropouts, cable replacement will be in your future. Moving up to 4k HDR will be an entirely different matter. Keep in mind that there is more to a successful cable run than just the cable.
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post #10 of 16 Old 09-24-2017, 03:59 PM - Thread Starter
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How long is your cables run? 1080p is usually not a problem up to a point, but depending on the gauge of the wire you may be able to get away with an active extender, as long as you've got a power source close by (wall outlet). Active HDMI cables have the chipsets built-in to the connector end so they draw their power from the device that they are connected to. All you can do is try. You may get lucky. However, if you start getting sparkles and/or dropouts, cable replacement will be in your future. Moving up to 4k HDR will be an entirely different matter. Keep in mind that there is more to a successful cable run than just the cable.
So the HDMI cable is probably over 100ft. I just want to get 1080p from that long run, as plan to put a splitter from Direct TV box up to Home Theater on another floor. I did buy an extender just in case, hope that is enough.
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post #11 of 16 Old 09-24-2017, 04:59 PM
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So the HDMI cable is probably over 100ft. I just want to get 1080p from that long run, as plan to put a splitter from Direct TV box up to Home Theater on another floor. I did buy an extender just in case, hope that is enough.
100' is pretty long for any run but you should be able get to get reliable 1080p provided the cable is thick enough (24AWG), the HDMI chipset in the extender is current enough to handle that distance, and you pay attention to the bend radius. The splitter may be a consideration as well because anytime you interrupt the chain, you run the risk of signal degradation. At that distance I'm assuming you're running your cable in-conduit so you can easily swap out the cable should you have any issues or decide to push something better than 1080p in the future, and that would be for both runs, the long one and the run from your DTV box up to your HTS.
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post #12 of 16 Old 09-24-2017, 06:34 PM - Thread Starter
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So the HDMI cable is probably over 100ft. I just want to get 1080p from that long run, as plan to put a splitter from Direct TV box up to Home Theater on another floor. I did buy an extender just in case, hope that is enough.
100' is pretty long for any run but you should be able get to get reliable 1080p provided the cable is thick enough (24AWG), the HDMI chipset in the extender is current enough to handle that distance, and you pay attention to the bend radius. The splitter may be a consideration as well because anytime you interrupt the chain, you run the risk of signal degradation. At that distance I'm assuming you're running your cable in-conduit so you can easily swap out the cable should you have any issues or decide to push something better than 1080p in the future, and that would be for both runs, the long one and the run from your DTV box up to your HTS.

So the USB was prewired when previous person built the house. It would probably be increadbly difficult to ever change out cables there, to the point I am not even sure it is possible. For my home theater, that will be the only long run cable going to the AV closet downstairs. Everything else will be local in the room.
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post #13 of 16 Old 09-24-2017, 06:39 PM
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So the USB was prewired when previous person built the house. It would probably be increadbly difficult to ever change out cables there, to the point I am not even sure it is possible. For my home theater, that will be the only long run cable going to the AV closet downstairs. Everything else will be local in the room.
Then it sounds like you'll just have to deal with what you have in place. Your 100'+ cable run will be the bottleneck for possibly 1080p and definitely for any higher video standards. How long is the run from your DTV to your home theater and do you plan on running 4k or 4k HDR to the theater?
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post #14 of 16 Old 09-24-2017, 08:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Then it sounds like you'll just have to deal with what you have in place. Your 100'+ cable run will be the bottleneck for possibly 1080p and definitely for any higher video standards. How long is the run from your DTV to your home theater and do you plan on running 4k or 4k HDR to the theater?
That is what I am talking about. The DTV to the theater will be >100ft as the DTV is hooked up downstairs in the media closet with my control 4 system, across a wall from the Living Room. The Theater is across the house and upstairs. I hope with a booster/extender it is enough to do 1080. Mostly need the DTV to watch sporting events. If it does not work, I suspect I will need to get another DTV receiver, though hoping to get by with HDMI switch as I will never need to watch something different downstairs while watching projector upstairs.

The HT Denon receiver to Epson projector etc is less than 20ft . They are lal going to be set locally in the theater. I go the Epson 5040UB so no 4K. I know it upconverts and eventually may go 4K rout but I am not sure I will be spending money on a 4K player at this time. I am making a home computer that should be able to handle 4k to send to the projector, but not sure how or where I will get content from to put on the computer (not getting 4K Blu-Ray player at this time).
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post #15 of 16 Old 09-24-2017, 09:44 PM
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That is what I am talking about. The DTV to the theater will be >100ft as the DTV is hooked up downstairs in the media closet with my control 4 system, across a wall from the Living Room. The Theater is across the house and upstairs. I hope with a booster/extender it is enough to do 1080. Mostly need the DTV to watch sporting events. If it does not work, I suspect I will need to get another DTV receiver, though hoping to get by with HDMI switch as I will never need to watch something different downstairs while watching projector upstairs.

The HT Denon receiver to Epson projector etc is less than 20ft . They are lal going to be set locally in the theater. I go the Epson 5040UB so no 4K. I know it upconverts and eventually may go 4K rout but I am not sure I will be spending money on a 4K player at this time. I am making a home computer that should be able to handle 4k to send to the projector, but not sure how or where I will get content from to put on the computer (not getting 4K Blu-Ray player at this time).
Difficult situation at best. The >100' for just 1080p may be possible with an active extender but without knowing the gauge of the installed HDMI cable, how you're going to power it, how it is laid inside the walls (bend radius), if it is laid close to any electrical lines, etc you just won't know until you try. 4k HDR will never happen for that run unless you install new cable (Ruipro fiber for example). The 20' run should not be difficult at all but I would certainly plan ahead if you have future plans for 4k HDR. As I said earlier, the switch may be an issue as well. What you want to do is not impossible but certainly very challenging.
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post #16 of 16 Old 09-26-2017, 04:31 AM
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Old HDMI for 4k

4K UHD - there are Active box’s which are designed to extend the life of older HDMI cables and allow you to deliver 2160p, they are not cheap ($350+) and 100’ is likely a step too far (I think 45’ is closer to the operational range).

With HDMI the ‘Extender’ will often go at the Sink (Display) end of the cable rather than at the Source.

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