HDMI to Hirewire - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 16 Old 01-13-2007, 12:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok this may have been asked before but.. Has anyone heard of any company working on HDMI to firewire converter? I was at a big box store yesterday and the guy I talked to stated that he heard that someone is working on that as we speak. The only reason I am asking is because my TV only accepts 1080p thru firewire. I am about ready to take my PS3 back because I really cannot use the 1080p resolution. So if anyone has heard anything I would appreciate it.
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post #2 of 16 Old 01-13-2007, 02:25 PM
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No, to encode uncompressed HD in realtime is too expensive at the consumer level. What display do you have? Why not use component 1080i in? Is your display 1080p?

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post #3 of 16 Old 01-13-2007, 03:23 PM - Thread Starter
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i have a mitsubishi 62627. It only accepts 1080p thru firewire I can run 1080I thru HDMI. The ps3 does not display 720p with movies. From what i understand 1080I realy is like 540 P?
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post #4 of 16 Old 01-13-2007, 06:32 PM
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Hirewire

Is that new?

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post #5 of 16 Old 01-13-2007, 07:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xterraml View Post

i have a mitsubishi 62627. It only accepts 1080p thru firewire I can run 1080I thru HDMI. The ps3 does not display 720p with movies. From what i understand 1080I realy is like 540 P?

That is false. 1080i is not like 540p. Most likely your eyes can't tell the difference between 720p, 1080i and 1080p.

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post #6 of 16 Old 01-13-2007, 09:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xterraml View Post

i have a mitsubishi 62627. It only accepts 1080p thru firewire I can run 1080I thru HDMI. The ps3 does not display 720p with movies. From what i understand 1080I realy is like 540 P?

1080i like 540p, incorrect. Run your PS3 at 1080i to one of your 2 HDMI inputs, your display will convert it to 1080p. You will be good to go. Enjoy.

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post #7 of 16 Old 01-18-2007, 08:42 PM
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how is 1080i converted to 1080p? does it just interpolate the other 540 lines? or do I misunderstand the process?
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post #8 of 16 Old 01-21-2007, 03:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glyph View Post

how is 1080i converted to 1080p? does it just interpolate the other 540 lines? or do I misunderstand the process?

De-interlacing... typically delay the display by one frame and show progressive frames.
I'm unfamiliar with your set, but if its' fixed-pixel digital this must be done anyway for any interlaced resolution.

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post #9 of 16 Old 01-24-2007, 07:26 PM
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A device that converts HDMI to 1394 would be:
1) a little pricey as it would require a real time HD compression encoder
2) lower quality due to the compression required to make the video fit into 1394's relatively limited bandwidth. HDTV resolutions (720p/1080i) require about 2.2Gbps for uncompressed video, while 1080p requires twice that amount.

The final issue would be that it's not clear what type of compression format your TV supports for the 1394 input: MPEG2, DV, etc? I had once heard that your TV manufacturer might offer the ability to upgrade their 1394-equipped TVs with DVI HDCP or HDMI input hardware- it's worth checking to see if this is the case.
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post #10 of 16 Old 01-29-2007, 01:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDMI_Org View Post

A device that converts HDMI to 1394 would be:

2) lower quality due to the compression required to make the video fit into 1394's relatively limited bandwidth. HDTV resolutions (720p/1080i) require about 2.2Gbps for uncompressed video, while 1080p requires twice that amount.

I disagree. If the original content was transmitted in MPEG2, then uncompressed and then recompressed to MPEG2 via 1394, no bit loss, the original content would be intact and therefore equal to HDMI.

Also, if a device simply had a 1394 output skipping the HDMI output, the PQ would be the same. The difference is where the uncompressing is done.

For the record, 1394 is now at 3.2Gbps over fiber as demonstrated at CEDIA 2006.
They now have enough bandwidth to transmit HDTV including 1080p uncompressed if they wanted to. Recording HDTV on top of that is a bonus.

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post #11 of 16 Old 01-29-2007, 04:05 PM
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may be a little off topic, but can anyone very that if my TV is properly equiped with a CableCARD i can record encrypted content for to a firewire/1394 AVHD just wanna make sure i can record ESPNHD, etc... before shelling out the $$ for the harddrive
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post #12 of 16 Old 01-30-2007, 09:44 AM
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As long as the 5C flags allow you to.

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post #13 of 16 Old 01-30-2007, 10:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kipp Jones View Post

As long as the 5C flags allow you to.

I thought that all content was at least "copy once" meaning i could record it via 1394 from my TV to an AVHDD, and play it back, i just couldn't archive it to another device?
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post #14 of 16 Old 01-30-2007, 02:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kipp Jones View Post

I disagree. If the original content was transmitted in MPEG2, then uncompressed and then recompressed to MPEG2 via 1394, no bit loss, the original content would be intact and therefore equal to HDMI.

Also, if a device simply had a 1394 output skipping the HDMI output, the PQ would be the same. The difference is where the uncompressing is done.

For the record, 1394 is now at 3.2Gbps over fiber as demonstrated at CEDIA 2006.
They now have enough bandwidth to transmit HDTV including 1080p uncompressed if they wanted to. Recording HDTV on top of that is a bonus.

MPEG2 (and all the other codecs like MPEG4, H264, VC1, etc) is a lossy compression. Each time it is compressed, information is lost (like an mp3). Thus, if the original MPEG2 content is uncompressed, then re-compressed one more time (i.e. more information is now lost), the quality of the 2nd compression will certainly be lower. It's similar to taking an mp3, decompressing to wav, then re-compressing into an mp3 again. The 2nd version will be lower quality than the first.

The only equivalent "lossless" way would be to never decompress the original MPEG2 content (say from the disc or off the air), transmit it over 1394, then get decompressed at the display. But you still have the problem of not being sure whether the TV has the right decompression codec.
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post #15 of 16 Old 01-30-2007, 07:23 PM
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Agreed, that plays into effect with HDMI as well because you still need to uncompress at some point whether it be at the source device or at the display. Point taken though about performing the compression twice which is unrealistic anyway but technically possible.

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post #16 of 16 Old 01-30-2007, 08:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDMI_Org View Post

The only equivalent "lossless" way would be to never decompress the original MPEG2 content (say from the disc or off the air), transmit it over 1394, then get decompressed at the display. But you still have the problem of not being sure whether the TV has the right decompression codec.

Yeah, it's very problematic to have TV understanding MPEG2, but one can feed 1394 into computer which, in turn, would stream it into networked media player or decode by itself to feed display.
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