Clarification of HDMI AWG Ratings? - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 19 Old 07-21-2007, 02:24 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
crellion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 116
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Monoprice has several different HDMI cable ratings going from 22AWG upto 28AWG... Can anyone explain how these ratings impact performance of the cable?
crellion is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 19 Old 07-21-2007, 02:27 PM
Senior Member
 
CriticalListener's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Valatie, NY
Posts: 361
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by crellion View Post

Monoprice has several different HDMI cable ratings going from 22AWG upto 28AWG... Can anyone explain how these ratings impact performance of the cable?

They affect the length the HDMI cable can transmit without losing the signal. I wouldn't use a 28 AWG cable for more than 15 ft. I personally use a 22 AWG cable from Monoprice at 50' with no adverse affects. Beyond 50' I would strongly recommend some type of booster HDMI cable.

Critical Listener
"Beyond the Equipment"
HAA Certified
CriticalListener is offline  
post #3 of 19 Old 07-21-2007, 04:14 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
crellion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 116
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by CriticalListener View Post

They affect the length the HDMI cable can transmit without losing the signal. I wouldn't use a 28 AWG cable for more than 15 ft. I personally use a 22 AWG cable from Monoprice at 50' with no adverse affects. Beyond 50' I would strongly recommend some type of booster HDMI cable.

So the higher the AWG is, the higher potential for signal loss occurs? Should I stick with a low-number AWG then?
crellion is offline  
post #4 of 19 Old 07-21-2007, 08:37 PM
Senior Member
 
CriticalListener's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Valatie, NY
Posts: 361
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by crellion View Post

So the higher the AWG is, the higher potential for signal loss occurs? Should I stick with a low-number AWG then?

Gauge for wire is the same as for shotguns, the lower the bigger. So a 22 AWG wire is significantly thicker than a 28 AWG, just like a 12 gauge shotgun is bigger than a 16 gauge.

The thicker the wires, the less signal loss. Same goes for speaker wire - 12 gauge is much thicker than 16 gauge and signal loss is reduced ( Ohms law specifies resistance - the thicker the cable the less resistance [all things being equal, which means if you are measuring copper wire at 12 gauge, don't measure with a tin wire at 16 gauge]).

For HDMI, I'd stick with the lowest AWG your budget allows, but under 15ft you should be fine with 28 AWG because the signal loss will be imperceivable.

Critical Listener
"Beyond the Equipment"
HAA Certified
CriticalListener is offline  
post #5 of 19 Old 07-22-2007, 08:13 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
crellion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 116
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by CriticalListener View Post

Gauge for wire is the same as for shotguns, the lower the bigger. So a 22 AWG wire is significantly thicker than a 28 AWG, just like a 12 gauge shotgun is bigger than a 16 gauge.

The thicker the wires, the less signal loss. Same goes for speaker wire - 12 gauge is much thicker than 16 gauge and signal loss is reduced ( Ohms law specifies resistance - the thicker the cable the less resistance [all things being equal, which means if you are measuring copper wire at 12 gauge, don't measure with a tin wire at 16 gauge]).

For HDMI, I'd stick with the lowest AWG your budget allows, but under 15ft you should be fine with 28 AWG because the signal loss will be imperceivable.

Unfortunately, Monoprice doesn't have 22-AWG rated cables under 25ft... I want something around 15 to 20 ft, but they only have those lengths at 24-AWG or higher, should I get those?
crellion is offline  
post #6 of 19 Old 07-22-2007, 03:49 PM
Senior Member
 
CriticalListener's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Valatie, NY
Posts: 361
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by crellion View Post

Unfortunately, Monoprice doesn't have 22-AWG rated cables under 25ft... I want something around 15 to 20 ft, but they only have those lengths at 24-AWG or higher, should I get those?

24 AWG for under 25' should be fine.

Critical Listener
"Beyond the Equipment"
HAA Certified
CriticalListener is offline  
post #7 of 19 Old 07-31-2007, 02:33 PM
Senior Member
 
RSongco's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Chino Hills, CA
Posts: 465
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
My Tosh HD-A2 connected to my Sanyo PLV-Z2 projector via a 35' HDMI cable (using a DVI adapter) is producing an image with a lot of noise (green pixelization in bright areas). Is this a situation where I should get (a) lower gauge HDMI cable, (b) an HDMI signal booster or (c) a more heavily shielded cable?

"Mixing a teaspoon of manure with a gallon of ice cream produces a gallon of manure."
RSongco is offline  
post #8 of 19 Old 10-05-2009, 07:05 PM
AVS Special Member
 
JeffAHayes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Spartanburg, SC
Posts: 2,610
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
I wasn't really even aware of the gauge issue with HDMI cables until today. While I knew there were different gauges for speaker wires, considering most HDMI cables were ALSO specced out using many other factors, I simply didn't even THINK about gauge as a factor. Then I received an HDMI splitter I ordered through Amazon's storefront so I can split the HDMI output from my PC to my monitor and my HDTV. It's a powered splitter and the very sparse manual that came with it specified 26 gauge cables, but I don't know if that was a maximum, a minimum, or a guideline.

At any rate, at that point I looked at the two cables I ordered with it -- a 1.5 foot cable just to hook it up, and another 6-foot cable that was pretty inexpensive... Both were 28-gauge. I just checked all my other HDMI cables I'm using with my TV and so forth, and they either don't have any specs on them, or they all say 28 gauge, EXCEPT the cord I'm using for my computer monitor -- and I don't remember where I got this one, but it's about twice as thick and has a sort of "fabric" exterior... I think it MUST be a lower gauge than 28, although that's a short connection, so if that cable's long enough I may re-purpose it for the TV from my splitter box, once I hook it up... It's a pretty stiff cable, anyway, which makes rotating this pivotable monitor a bit tough, which I sometimes need to do for editing documents and photos.

The longest cable I currently have is 12 feet (I got 2 12-foot cables, plus two bottles of screen cleaner and 2 screen cleaning cloths for $30 at Costco -- those two are both 28 AWG, but the cables look pretty good -- the little black one that came with my Blu-Ray player, by contrast, doesn't even have an AWG rating printed on it and looks pretty flimsy, but the picture on the TV looks fine, so I'm not complaining.
Jeff

Life is the only constant...

JeffAHayes is offline  
post #9 of 19 Old 10-05-2009, 08:36 PM
Member
 
FiberOpticDude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Beaverton, Oregon
Posts: 92
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
RSongco, go with option A or B, shielding is rarely an issue with HDMI.
FiberOpticDude is offline  
post #10 of 19 Old 10-06-2009, 03:48 PM
Member
 
sk8conz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 146
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
28 AWG is good for anything upto 5m
26 AWG is good for upto 15m
24 AWG is good for upto 20m

By "good" I mean it will pass 1080p60 without any extenders or boosters
sk8conz is offline  
post #11 of 19 Old 10-07-2009, 09:36 PM
AVS Special Member
 
JeffAHayes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Spartanburg, SC
Posts: 2,610
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Now being very curious what different cables are, I've been going to the HDMI cable section in every store I visit that sells them and looking. It NEVER seems to be on the packaging, but it's printed on SOME of the cables -- others have MUCH text printed on them... all SORTS of fancy stuff about temperature tolerances and other things, but NO AWG mention... Ironically, yet MUCH to my delight, I found 30 AWG printed on the side of MONSTER Cables, proving what I've long suspected -- that Monster Cables are not only no better than others, but actually may be even LESSER cables.

Most of the Belkin cables looked really good, but THOSE were always ones with MUCH text on them, but none of it included an AWG rating. As they were almost always thicker than others, I suspect their AWG rating is likely usually "good enough or better," but I still don't understand why they don't list it. That cable I have that has a sort of cloth exterior is a Belkin cable, and it's about a centimeter thick! There's NOTHING printed on it, though, and although I found the packaging for it at Sam's -- it's one of the major cables they sell -- the packaging had all sorts of stuff about how good the cable is, including a diagram of how it's built, but said NOTHING about an AWG rating.
Jeff

Life is the only constant...

JeffAHayes is offline  
post #12 of 19 Old 10-08-2009, 10:56 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Colm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 4,652
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 89
Larger gauge wire does not necessarily make a better HDMI cable. There are more important factors, such as the consistency of the impedance throughout the cable, crosstalk, etc. However, everything else being equal, you may be able to get better distance out of larger wire.

The thickness of the cable means absolutely nothing. That thickness may be due to the jacket. A thick jacket does nothing for the performance of the cable.
Colm is offline  
post #13 of 19 Old 10-08-2009, 11:07 AM
 
googlegod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,387
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
The hdmi voltage/amperage is so low the gauge shouldn't mean a thing, on paper that is ! Speaker and power cord wire needs to be larger to carry the higher amperage and so not to heat-up and break down and be a fire hazard.
googlegod is offline  
post #14 of 19 Old 10-08-2009, 12:12 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Colm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 4,652
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 89
Well, almost. A bigger wire will help in HDMI long runs, assuming you are starting with a good cable in the first place.
Colm is offline  
post #15 of 19 Old 10-08-2009, 12:43 PM
AVS Special Member
 
crutschow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 1,774
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by googlegod View Post

The hdmi voltage/amperage is so low the gauge shouldn't mean a thing, on paper that is ! Speaker and power cord wire needs to be larger to carry the higher amperage and so not to heat-up and break down and be a fire hazard.

Actually, the gauge does affect the HDMI cable signal due to the skin effect which causes high frequency attenuation. A larger gauge has lower skin effect resistance which reduces this attenuation.

Carl
Curmudgeon Elektroniker
crutschow is offline  
post #16 of 19 Old 10-08-2009, 02:01 PM
AVS Special Member
 
JeffAHayes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Spartanburg, SC
Posts: 2,610
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Well, I think you're pretty much right about a "thicker cable exterior" probably not meaning much, since it likely COULD just mean a thicker "wrapping."

HOWEVER, one caveat. I've been pretty impressed with just about everything I've ever bought with the Belkin name on it. I went to their website to look at their cables there, and the cable I spent $20 for at Sam's Club was like 3 or 4 times that price at their website! Looked the same, at least -- same length, same as far as I could tell, lol.

Since my LONGEST cable is 12 feet, I figure I'm OK, regardless, and I haven't had any obvious affects from any of my cables so far.
Jeff

Life is the only constant...

JeffAHayes is offline  
post #17 of 19 Old 10-13-2009, 09:33 AM
Member
 
FaithfulSinner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 20
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffAHayes View Post

Ironically, yet MUCH to my delight, I found 30 AWG printed on the side of MONSTER Cables, proving what I've long suspected -- that Monster Cables are not only no better than others, but actually may be even LESSER cables.Jeff

That is not a shock at all. I just posted on another forum about specs. They are the most important when it comes to HDMI. AWG is one of those important factors. 28AWG and even 30AWG is OK for short runs, but HDMI is sensitive and 22-24AWG is the best option for longer runs.

Monster makes you pay for their advertising, they still pay 2$ per cable from China like most large cable companies. They sell you the idea that their cable, with the same(if not inferior), specs is worth the $100.00 price tag. Completely unnecessary. Hopefully more people get educated on things like this so they don't get ripped.
FaithfulSinner is offline  
post #18 of 19 Old 10-13-2009, 11:56 AM
Senior Member
 
Rebound's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 208
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I don't think HDMI was intended for super heavy, fat cables. The connector can begin to strain when you have a heavy cable attached to it.
Rebound is offline  
post #19 of 19 Old 10-13-2009, 09:38 PM
AVS Special Member
 
JeffAHayes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Spartanburg, SC
Posts: 2,610
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Well the Belkin cable I'm talking about is NOT ridiculously thick, or anything (and I'm betting that although they DON'T list AWG specs anywhere, it's probably AWG 28-24. and probably only 28, which is fine, as it's only 8 feet long). It just has a relatively thick shielding on it, which feels like some sort of textile on the outside, rather than rubber or whatever or some type of rubberized plastic, like most cables. As I said, you can see them at Sam's club, if anyone wants to take a look. They're three or four times the price at the Belkin website.
Jeff

Life is the only constant...

JeffAHayes is offline  
Reply HDMI Q&A - The One Connector World



Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off