Monster HDMI Cables - What is the difference - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 56 Old 11-08-2007, 11:37 AM - Thread Starter
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Ok I'm a little confused about the differences between these HDMI Monster cables

According to the packages the faster ones are good for 1080p 12-bit color depth and 120hz frame rate.

I'm purchasing a 52 Sony XBR4 so according the Monster cable box I need to buy one of their new 1000 series because it supports 120hz 1080p+ etc.

So what is this I hear about speed? What is the correct speed I need ? Does speed matter when dealing with HDMI and 1080p signals?

I thought HDMI cables were just a series of data so what is the deal can someone break it down for me?

This is all very confusing and I did use the search option can someone break it down

I don't care what brand I buy but I saw Monster cables 600 800 and 1000 they actually broke it down on each box what they did so I'm just trying to figure this all out

thanks
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post #2 of 56 Old 11-08-2007, 12:20 PM
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marketing...

since 120hz is the refresh rate of the display (not the frame rate from the source), YOU think a bit about what they are trying to sell you here...

look around a bit in this forum... you'll see what the answer to what cable you need is...

Quote:
Originally Posted by rrussell50 View Post

Ok I'm a little confused about the differences between these HDMI Monster cables

According to the packages the faster ones are good for 1080p 12-bit color depth and 120hz frame rate.

I'm purchasing a 52 Sony XBR4 so according the Monster cable box I need to buy one of their new 1000 series because it supports 120hz 1080p+ etc.

So what is this I hear about speed? What is the correct speed I need ? Does speed matter when dealing with HDMI and 1080p signals?

I thought HDMI cables were just a series of data so what is the deal can someone break it down for me?

This is all very confusing and I did use the search option can someone break it down

I don't care what brand I buy but I saw Monster cables 600 800 and 1000 they actually broke it down on each box what they did so I'm just trying to figure this all out

thanks


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post #3 of 56 Old 11-08-2007, 12:34 PM
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Look at the top of this page at the links to Blue Jeans Cable and Monoprice, they make perfectly good cables for a small fraction of the price. Digital signals don't get any better from one cable to the next. All that matters is that the device can decipher whether it is being sent a 1 or a 0.
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post #4 of 56 Old 11-08-2007, 12:44 PM
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noel lee wants more of your $.
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post #5 of 56 Old 11-08-2007, 02:11 PM - Thread Starter
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so what your saying is that whether I buy a $2 cable or $500 cable it is exactly the same thing ??

Also does the speed of the cable does not matter at all w/ 1080p content?
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post #6 of 56 Old 11-08-2007, 02:41 PM
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well...

the cable doesn't have "speed", per se.... the cable can get certified that "yes, indeed, it will pass xxx bitrate"... however, that doesn't mean that "uncertified" cables WON'T pass xxx bitrate... there's a pretty strong consensus that for anything under 15 ft, almost any cable will work...

1080p doesn't have anything to do with which hdmi spec... the higher hdmi spec allows for more bandwidth, allowing hbr audio, "deep color" and other goodies (that no one uses yet)... plain old cables work fine... for example, i have the plain jane hdmi cables in my system (stb, pio 59avi, tosh a20, sony bdp-s1) all to pio 82txs (pio and stb on a switch) and then a 15 foot run from the avr to the display (pio 150fd)... i use the cheapest ones that monoprice sells...

if you have a longer run, then *maybe* going to a thicker gauge cable would help, or some type of repeater... at that point, you'd buy the 20 dollar monoprice cable instead of the 3 dollar one...

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post #7 of 56 Old 11-28-2008, 05:15 PM
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Funny thing happened today when I bought a new 46" 120Hz Sharp Aquos LCD HDTV at Best Buy.
My older TV had only component inputs for I knew I was going to have to buy a HDMI cable for the connection from my cable box to my new TV.
I had a choice between a 64$ Monster HDMI cable and a 129$ Monster HDMI cable, before I even reached for the 64$ cable, the sales guy told me I would only get the 120Hz from the 129$ Monster HDMI cable.
I told him I doubted that, and he showed me that the box on the 64$ cable said 60Hz on it and the 129$ cable says 120Hz on it I still told him that sounds like marketing BS to me, and he literally got very pissed off at me, told me he knew what he was talking about etc...
I really find it hard to believe you need these high end cables like this, sure a better cable will provide a better connection and less loss especially over a long distance, but this is a 4ft cable, and its a digital signal.
Also the thing that gets me, and maybe I am wrong here, but when a TV shows 120Hz that should not mean there is more bandwidth being used between the cable box and the TV (I would think) the signal between the cable box and the TV stays the same no matter what, and like the post above, the TV will show the picture clearer at 120Hz refreshing the screen more often, and taking care of the issues with 24fps movie video etc... I do not see why you would need a better cable for a 120Hz HDTV at all.
If you go to the Monster cable website they totally do make it sound like you have to buy the 130$ bad as hell cable for 120Hz sets, and I get sick of this BS, people really need to get over these over priced cables, I was pissed I had to buy a cable for 69$ I was not going to pay 120$ for a HDMI cable.
This same sales guy tried to sell me a UPS for the TV right away, and was getting upset cause I told him I had one already, he asked if it was for a PC, I told him yes it was, and he told me that would not work they are different! so I was bought to kill this guy before the HDMI mess ever started.
Anyway, I am curious what others think about these high prices cables anyway, so speak up, what you guys think?
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post #8 of 56 Old 11-28-2008, 06:15 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rrussell50 View Post

Ok I'm a little confused about the differences between these HDMI Monster cables

According to the packages the faster ones are good for 1080p 12-bit color depth and 120hz frame rate.

Could be. How far are you going? If you're not going too far, not going to be really any concern at all unless there is a serious flaw in the cable. If you're going far, then ask yourself whether you're actually going to be using 12-bit (unlikely) or 120hz framrate (most certainly not). And if by some chance you actually will be, quite frankly I'd steer darn clear of cabling products of completely unknown performance such as Monster or the like.

Quote:


I'm purchasing a 52 Sony XBR4 so according the Monster cable box I need to buy one of their new 1000 series because it supports 120hz 1080p+ etc.

But since you're not sending 120hz signals down the cable at all, the box is lying to you.

Quote:


So what is this I hear about speed? What is the correct speed I need ? Does speed matter when dealing with HDMI and 1080p signals?

Cable performance, as explained in the link below, becomes a more crucial concern if you're running higher bandwidth signals, and especially at distance. Cable performance may or may not have any relation whatsoever to price, marketing mumbo jumbo, and completely unknown technical specifications from many popular and usually overpriced brands including the one you're asking about.

Quote:


I thought HDMI cables were just a series of data so what is the deal can someone break it down for me?

This is all very confusing and I did use the search option can someone break it down

I don't care what brand I buy but I saw Monster cables 600 800 and 1000 they actually broke it down on each box what they did so I'm just trying to figure this all out

thanks

http://www.bluejeanscable.com/articl...n.htm?hdmidept
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post #9 of 56 Old 11-28-2008, 06:22 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rrussell50 View Post

so what your saying is that whether I buy a $2 cable or $500 cable it is exactly the same thing ??

Also does the speed of the cable does not matter at all w/ 1080p content?

No. Cabling most certainly does differ in quality, the question is whether it matters. HDMI pushes an enormous bandwidth down the cable, but because it is digital it is extremely robust to degradation, to a point. It can't go very far too easily, but even a heavily degraded signal, to a point, will be interpreted fine by the receiving device and be 100% perfect. That is to say, among two functioning cables for a particular task (bitrate and distance), there will be no performance difference whatsoever between the two cables.

However, as you make the task more difficult, by higher bitrates or longer distances, the cabling differences can become significant because one signal may be so degraded in a poorer quality cable that it cannot be received well or at all. But because it is digital, this occurs in a very large, and very catastrophic way. You will know if the cable is poor for the task at hand because you will get: no picture whatsoever, total white snow, serious colored or white lines and snow in the image, colored or white sparklies in the image, etc. It is very very obvious if an HDMI cable is failing in an application.

Again, if you're going just a few feet with HDMI, a $2 that works fine is going to provide you a picture that is totally 100% identical to a cable that probably cost exactly the same as the $2 cable but you bought for $500 in order to keep our businesses afloat and our economy alive.

If you need to go really far, get the best HDMI cable you can for long distances, which is, if we want to be objective and scientific about it, the Belden bonded-pair cable sold by bluejeans. Nothing performs better (other than fiber) that I am aware of for data than a bonded twisted pair, which Belden is the only company on earth that manufactures.
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post #10 of 56 Old 12-17-2008, 09:03 PM
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I'm an A/V newbie, but I saw an article on CNET where they strongly recommend cheap HDMI cables widely available from online retailers instead of the expensive counterparts sold in your local electronics store. Since this is my first post, I cannot link to the article, but its easily found on the CNET website by typing "hdmi cables" in the search box.
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post #11 of 56 Old 12-18-2008, 11:11 AM
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I think all these cables are pretty much the same. Monster just has an insane markup, i used to work for a retailer some years ago and the cost of most of the cables was roughly 30-40% of what they were selling for. Dont get sucked into the hype.
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post #12 of 56 Old 12-29-2008, 06:25 PM
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Yes it is true,Monster HDMI is more expensive than many brands but top of the line(M1000HD) is better than many HDMI cables I ever used.With hiend system hearing is difference.
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post #13 of 56 Old 12-30-2008, 04:06 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by butsu View Post

Yes it is true,Monster HDMI is more expensive than many brands but top of the line(M1000HD) is better than many HDMI cables I ever used.With hiend system hearing is difference.

Haha. BS.
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post #14 of 56 Old 12-30-2008, 06:07 PM
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CW, you mention that distance can make the difference in cables. What distance is really far? Does the gauge of the wire matter too? Lower gauges are better for longer distances. Do these different gauges differ over manufacturer?
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post #15 of 56 Old 12-31-2008, 11:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CubicleDrone View Post

CW, you mention that distance can make the difference in cables. What distance is really far? Does the gauge of the wire matter too? Lower gauges are better for longer distances. Do these different gauges differ over manufacturer?

All your questions are answered here.
http://www.bluejeanscable.com/articl...n.htm?hdmidept
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post #16 of 56 Old 01-01-2009, 07:11 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CubicleDrone View Post

CW, you mention that distance can make the difference in cables. What distance is really far?

Depends on the signal bandwidth.

Quote:


Does the gauge of the wire matter too? Lower gauges are better for longer distances. Do these different gauges differ over manufacturer?

Yes gauge matters, but other things do as well. Impedance stability is crucial, and this is very hard to do right with twisted pair.

Also second the link to bluejeans site. Also Belden has a lot of white papers up about UTP/STP performance which is pertinent to HDMI.
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post #17 of 56 Old 01-05-2009, 10:11 AM
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last year I've saw on a TV program and that episode they test HDMI cable for a LCD TV. They use same source of cable provider, 2 indentical LCD TV and 1 pluged with $2 HDMI cable you can get on Ebay and another one pluged with Monster HDMI cable that cost like $100 and the result was.... to the human eyes.... looks.... indentical. and when they put through a machine to check signal pass through (@ Mc Gill University) still not much of difference.
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post #18 of 56 Old 01-05-2009, 01:28 PM
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Just a little insight. I am using a 50 foot Blue Jeans Cable BJC Series 1 HDMI cable to connect a Sony STR DA5300ES AV receiver to a 52" Sony XBR4 120hz LCD..................it performs flawlessly. I am also using a Sony BDP 550 BluRay player and everything is absolutely perfect. Cable cost me about $135.....if it was a Monster cable it would have been ~$500. You decide.
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post #19 of 56 Old 01-06-2009, 12:19 PM
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I have been an exclusive Monster user for some time now, and was not even aware of the HDMI debate until about 2 weeks ago. Needless to say I have always thought Monster was the gold standard, but I am starting to realize that this may not be true. I was just wondering, is Blue Jean cable the manufacturer (like Monster) or the retailer (like Best Buy). I am trying to find some information without any retailer bias. Thanks.
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post #20 of 56 Old 01-06-2009, 12:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sony_Fan37 View Post

I have been an exclusive Monster user for some time now, and was not even aware of the HDMI debate until about 2 weeks ago. Needless to say I have always thought Monster was the gold standard, but I am starting to realize that this may not be true. I was just wondering, is Blue Jean cable the manufacturer (like Monster) or the retailer (like Best Buy). I am trying to find some information without any retailer bias. Thanks.

Manufacturer that sells direct online
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post #21 of 56 Old 01-06-2009, 01:02 PM
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Bluejean is a retail site that buys it's cables from a third party (Belden) but has it manufactured to it's specification here in the USA instead of China like every other cable (yes even Monster). It's a good place to find high quality cables that I'm sure Monster wishes didn't exist (they've actually been threatened by Monster with litigation for patent and trademark claims). I prefer Monoprice as the quality is about equal for my uses but prices are even better than Bluejean. Can't go wrong with either one . . . just don't fall for the Monster scam.
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post #22 of 56 Old 01-06-2009, 01:13 PM
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Good to know! Thanks for the posts. Looks like I may be done with Monster, at least when it comes to HDMI.
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post #23 of 56 Old 01-06-2009, 04:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rrussell50 View Post

so what you're saying is that whether I buy a $2 cable or $500 cable it is exactly the same thing ??

Congrats! You just won a trip to the Bahamas!

Noel Lee is paying for your trip. LOL
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post #24 of 56 Old 01-07-2009, 07:01 AM
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A common mistake people make is to assume that if a cable is made at the same manufacturing site are all identical. While this may be true for some cables, it is most definitely is not true all the time.

All the cable companies have designs and specifications that the cable is to be built to. Monster certainly has one, I'm sure Blue Jeans has one. The Chinese manufacturers quote and build to this specification. These specs will include wire gauge, type of wire, connector, platings, strain relief, etc. and any patentable items that can not be used on cables being shipped to others.

Some of these manufactures may have a cable they private label that is identical. But, the blanket, it's made in the same factory does not assure it's the same.
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post #25 of 56 Old 01-07-2009, 09:38 AM
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Do you still think Monster is better when it comes to anything other than HDMI?
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post #26 of 56 Old 01-07-2009, 10:33 AM
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Better? That depends. Do you have $200,000 of test equipment to qualify Monster as being better? Do you have snobby audiophile grade equipment (nothing you could buy at BB or CC) that would suffer if the cabling to be the weak link? Does music sound better and images look better to you if you know it's getting delivered by Monster cables? If yes then the answer is . . . maybe but not necessarily.

I'm quite confident that there are cheaper AND even better alternatives to Monster. Just because a Monster cable costs $200 doesn't make it the Rolls Royce of cables. Many times price is an indicator of quality, but only when the consumer can easily arrive at that conclusion on his own. The problem with Monster cable is you just have to take their word for it because the consumer cannot empirically measure if it’s better for their application. The next best thing would be to buy Monster and another brand and see which one is better but who has the money to toss away on that? The good news is that it’s all ready been done and the data is in. Monster offers nothing significant over a much less costly alternative.

I believe Monster has been successful because people are practically buying peace of mind that they have “the best” when a cable for ¼ the price or less would have served them equally as well. People are “guilted” into buying Monster by salesmen that either are uneducated or know better and continue to push it anyways. Monster buys its cables from China just like most everybody else. Monster isn't even on the HDMI Adopter list which means they buy it from a source that is and is therefor availible to other cable retailers. It may have a different connector or jacket but they absolutely don’t have the market cornered on quality cable.

My advice is to take a chance on a quality cable from Monoprice or Bluejean and if by freak chance it doesn’t work or meet your requirements then return it. Then just sprint down to your local box store and plop down a couple of Benji’s for Monster, but just remember that “a fool and his money are soon parted.”
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post #27 of 56 Old 01-07-2009, 10:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jirkstore View Post

"Monster buys its cables from China just like most everybody else. Monster isn't even on the HDMI Adopter list which means they buy it from a source that is and is therefor availible to other cable retailers."

Good to know. I didn't realize that.
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post #28 of 56 Old 01-07-2009, 02:24 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sony_Fan37 View Post

I have been an exclusive Monster user for some time now, and was not even aware of the HDMI debate until about 2 weeks ago. Needless to say I have always thought Monster was the gold standard, but I am starting to realize that this may not be true. I was just wondering, is Blue Jean cable the manufacturer (like Monster) or the retailer (like Best Buy). I am trying to find some information without any retailer bias. Thanks.


Blue Jeans is not a cable manufacturer, nor is Monster. Blue Jeans is best characterized as a cable assembler for custom professional cabling. Many home audio/video enthusiasts want high quality cabling, however the very best professional/broadcast cabling is not really sold anywhere pre-assembled for the average home user. Belden, Canare, and other professional cabling manufacturers sell large spools of 500 or 1000 feet or more of various cable. Most professional studios terminate all the cabling during installation, or as necessary, and have the tools to do so, and the technicians trained in it.

Blue Jeans essentially provides this service for the average user, and allows you to buy pre-terminated cabling, literally exactly the same as is used in critical broadcast applications.

They've branched out and provide some cheaper, chinese-made alternatives, such as their tartan cables, and some of their adapters etc which may be necessary. They also have developed some cable made specifically for them by Belden, or that is only sold through Blue Jeans. Kurt at BJ has a lot more info about that.

But the whole point of blue-jeans is that if you wanted the best broadcast video coax, you can't walk into a store and buy a pre-terminated 6-ft component video cable made with Belden 1694a. Blue Jeans provides exactly this service. So if you want to know exactly the performance of the cable, you can look directly to the Belden specifications to know everything you'd ever want to know, and probably more about that specific cable.

Monster Cable is a reseller in a similar sense in that they sell a bunch of cabling, but who makes it? with what tolerances? with what performance specifications? We have no idea.

Monster is not at all the gold standard of anything. The gold standard is Belden, Canare, etc. They are the benchmark in the professional world. That's what makes Blue Jeans likewise the benchmark, not because they make cable at all, but because they use the exact same Belden cabling that IS the benchmark in assembling their interconnects.
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post #29 of 56 Old 01-07-2009, 02:34 PM
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All I know is I bought my hdmi cables from Monoprice really cheap and they are excellent for sound and picture. Everyone who comes over and looks at picture on my Samsung 46 LCD are amazed.
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post #30 of 56 Old 01-07-2009, 05:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisWiggles View Post

Blue Jeans is not a cable manufacturer, nor is Monster. Blue Jeans is best characterized as a cable assembler for custom professional cabling. Many home audio/video enthusiasts want high quality cabling, however the very best professional/broadcast cabling is not really sold anywhere pre-assembled for the average home user. Belden, Canare, and other professional cabling manufacturers sell large spools of 500 or 1000 feet or more of various cable. Most professional studios terminate all the cabling during installation, or as necessary, and have the tools to do so, and the technicians trained in it.

Blue Jeans essentially provides this service for the average user, and allows you to buy pre-terminated cabling, literally exactly the same as is used in critical broadcast applications.

They've branched out and provide some cheaper, chinese-made alternatives, such as their tartan cables, and some of their adapters etc which may be necessary. They also have developed some cable made specifically for them by Belden, or that is only sold through Blue Jeans. Kurt at BJ has a lot more info about that.

But the whole point of blue-jeans is that if you wanted the best broadcast video coax, you can't walk into a store and buy a pre-terminated 6-ft component video cable made with Belden 1694a. Blue Jeans provides exactly this service. So if you want to know exactly the performance of the cable, you can look directly to the Belden specifications to know everything you'd ever want to know, and probably more about that specific cable.

Monster Cable is a reseller in a similar sense in that they sell a bunch of cabling, but who makes it? with what tolerances? with what performance specifications? We have no idea.

Monster is not at all the gold standard of anything. The gold standard is Belden, Canare, etc. They are the benchmark in the professional world. That's what makes Blue Jeans likewise the benchmark, not because they make cable at all, but because they use the exact same Belden cabling that IS the benchmark in assembling their interconnects.

Shows you what I know about cables. Very good info, thank you very much!
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