Can a HDTV with a CableCard send HD content via 1394 to a PC? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 15 Old 10-06-2006, 02:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Are HDTV sets a bit more friendly to consumers, so that with a CableCard in the HDTV I might be able to save a program to my HTPC harddrive via 1394?
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post #2 of 15 Old 10-06-2006, 02:49 PM
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sure if you you've got an HDTV that has a full firewire output that you can record to DVHS, then it could send it to the PC, you'll just need software to record with.

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post #3 of 15 Old 10-06-2006, 05:36 PM
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Good luck with that; I was able to record to my HTPC, via firewire from a SA 3250 from Time Warner, until about this time last year. TW did an "up-date" and it's not worked since...

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post #4 of 15 Old 10-06-2006, 06:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeford
Are HDTV sets a bit more friendly to consumers, so that with a CableCard in the HDTV I might be able to save a program to my HTPC harddrive via 1394?
Only for stuff that does not have the 5C encryption wrapper -- which is getting to be less and less (usually just broadcast channels). You'll find lots of info here about 5C and firewire by searching for those topics and posts by users like dr1394.


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post #5 of 15 Old 10-07-2006, 12:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nathan_h
Only for stuff that does not have the 5C encryption wrapper -- which is getting to be less and less (usually just broadcast channels). You'll find lots of info here about 5C and firewire by searching for those topics and posts by users like dr1394.
Too much info, not enough follow through on changes and current events.

CableCard should allow my HDTV to display any content, the only issue being with pay per view, and video on demand, and it is my understanding I am supposed to be able to record that, but make no copies from what I record. I'm not sure I follow the 5c part, isn't it almost all 5c, and thats the point of a CableCard?

As a Time Warner 8300 user I am well aware that TW has fubared the 1394 port, but I am guessing if it is "legal" that HDTV makers who want to sell me D-VHS and DVR boxes may take a MUCH more consumer friendly attitude toward 1394.

If a modern computer can't fake being a 3 year old D-VHS deck, my guess is that it isn't trying very hard yet.
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post #6 of 15 Old 10-07-2006, 09:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sotti
sure if you you've got an HDTV that has a full firewire output that you can record to DVHS, then it could send it to the PC, you'll just need software to record with.
So is there any such software available?
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post #7 of 15 Old 10-07-2006, 11:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeford
Too much info, not enough follow through on changes and current events.

CableCard should allow my HDTV to display any content, the only issue being with pay per view, and video on demand, and it is my understanding I am supposed to be able to record that, but make no copies from what I record.
There are two issues, first being they may or may not be allowing you to record, assuming for the moment that shows are flagged copy once, you still need a DTCP (ie 5C) compliant recorder to record copy-once conent. The PC is not a DTCP device, they provide no way to prevent copying of copy once content, so it won't be allowed to record anything that's not copy-freely.

D-VHS decks are usually DTCP compliant, and thus can be used for copy-once content.

See what an anamorphoscopic lens can do, see movies the way they were meant to be seen
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post #8 of 15 Old 10-08-2006, 10:48 PM - Thread Starter
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I looked a bit but didn't find much hard info on "what" a DTCP device needs to be, except that Hollywood sure as heck doesn't want it to be a PC. Here is a link to the thread here on 1394 recording on a PC, http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=403695
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post #9 of 15 Old 10-09-2006, 04:54 AM
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Did you see this:
http://www.dtcp.com/data/wp_spec.pdf

See what an anamorphoscopic lens can do, see movies the way they were meant to be seen
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post #10 of 15 Old 10-09-2006, 09:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JKohn
So is there any such software available?
There is, but I'm not familiar with it.

Check thegreenbutton.com forums, I think they have something about recording over firewire via a cable box, and your TV would essentially be a cable box in these situations.

BTW there is no PC software that is 5C compatiable. That's why I brought up DVHS, since this older technology was indeed intended for this use. The new tivo series 3 takes cable cards directly and I believe can record 5c content.

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post #11 of 15 Old 10-09-2006, 11:23 AM
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Is there a way to "sniff" the firewire communication between a 5c compliant dvhs deck and a cablecard tv, cable or sat box or whatever to find out how to fake emulate 5c compliance on a pc. Like the op said a pc should be able to do this stuff by now. Would you then get a scrambled stream or once that handshaking were done would it be pretty much in the clear?

I thought I'd heard over a year ago about some dos program that would hack 5c.

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post #12 of 15 Old 10-09-2006, 12:35 PM
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I tried this earlier this year after I got my new Samsung DLP and CableCard. There is a program (can't remember the name, found it in one of the threads here) that installs an alternate Firewire driver that lets your TV recognize your PC and record to it.

Unfortunately there were 2 major issues that prevented this from working properly:
1) Even when the TV claimed it was recording a "copy free" show I would get a garbage file that didn't play.
2) Comcast in my area (Santa Clara, CA) had the 5c settings backwards so that broadcast channels were set to "copy never" and encrypted/premium channels were set "copy free".

I ended up sticking w/my Fusion card to record HDTV over cable but it seems like the only real solution with digital cable at this point is to get a separate DVR (from cableco or Tivo3).
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post #13 of 15 Old 10-09-2006, 06:14 PM - Thread Starter
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That link to the white paper was very good, well informative, but yuck news.

DTCP doesn't look a whole lot different than HDCP, with two areas I have questions on still.

Where do the "keys" come from, is this like HDCP strictly a rom installed when the board is made, or will it be updateable in some fashion?

With SRM and revokable keys, something consumers need to start asking is how long is the warranty relative to DRM problems. If I buy a big screen TV and 2 years from now the keys are revoked its flat worthless. Its a question I plan to ask a lot of vendors this year at CES.

The potential fiasco might be lots of fun to watch if we consumers weren't in the live fire area.
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post #14 of 15 Old 10-10-2006, 06:44 AM
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"2) Comcast in my area (Santa Clara, CA) had the 5c settings backwards so that broadcast channels were set to "copy never" and encrypted/premium channels were set "copy free"."

sure wish I had that "problem" :D

Jim White
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post #15 of 15 Old 10-11-2006, 09:58 AM - Thread Starter
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At this point I don't really care if the toast falls jelly side up, I would just like to know so I can move forward. It "sounds" like this is the situation ...

1394 to a PC may work in some cases, but its not dependable, or predictable.
1394 to a D-vhs or other offical box may be much more limited than a similar box with its own cable card.

PC PVR via analog may have some life in it, but better than S-vhs is speculation, except for OTA HD which has its foot in the door.
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