LG BH200: Some 24p HD DVD have forced 60p output - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 26 Old 05-25-2008, 12:46 AM - Thread Starter
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There are some 1080p24 HD-DVDs which the LG BH200 cannot output with 24fps (1080p24) --> there is forced 1080p60 video output (with stutter). Film Mode is turned ON.

It is NOT known whether this is a LG firmware bug or the flag on the video streams of the affected discs is not correctly marked. Fact is that the Toshiba HD-DVD players can output these discs with 24 fps.

Here are some known discs in alphabetical order: (Please report here if you found other discs that are affected)

- 2001 Space Odyssey (Warner EU)
- 300 (Warner USA + Warner Germany)
- Arizona Dream (Universal Germany / Studio Canal EU)
- Army In The Shadows (Universal Germany / Studio Canal EU)
- Basic Instinct (Studio Canal EU)
- Bullitt (Warner EU)
- Downfall (Der Untergang) (Spain)
- First Blood / Rambo First Blood Part 2 / Rambo 3 (Studio Canal EU)
- Firewall (Warner EU)
- Getaway (Warner EU)
- Graduate, The (Studio Canal EU)
- Happy Feat (Warner USA)
- Invasion, The (Warner Germany)
- King Of California (First Look USA)
- Kiss Kiss Bang Bang (Warner EU)
- Licence to wed (Warner Germany)
- Matrix Reloaded (Warner Germany)
- Matrix Revolutions (Warner Germany)
- Perfume, The (Constantin Germany)
- Premonition (Kinowelt Germany)
- Resident Evil Extinction (Constantin Germany)
- RAN (Universal Germany / Studio Canal EU)
- Rio Bravo (Warner EU)
- Serpico (Studio Canal EU)
- Superman II: The Richard Donner Cut (Warner USA + Warner EU)
- Terminator 2 Ultimate HD Edition (Kinowelt Germany)
- Three days of the condor (Studio Canal EU)
- Total Recall (Studio Canal EU)
- Wyatt Earp (Warner EU)

It seems that ALL Paramount and Universal HD-DVDs are NOT affected from this "bug".

This was tested with latest June firmware and 0702 driver.
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post #2 of 26 Old 05-25-2008, 04:52 AM
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It is because the flags on the video streams on these discs are not correctly marked. Most players that auto detect 1080/24 would have trouble with these discs.

IMHO the situation is far preferrable to forcing 24P and having video material look like crap.
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post #3 of 26 Old 05-25-2008, 08:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krobar View Post

IMHO the situation is far preferrable to forcing 24P and having video material look like crap.

Yes, a forced mode should be added.
I wonder how the toshibas handle that problem...
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post #4 of 26 Old 05-25-2008, 08:29 AM
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I thought "Film Mode" being added was to force 24p?
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post #5 of 26 Old 05-25-2008, 09:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krobar View Post

It is because the flags on the video streams on these discs are not correctly marked. Most players that auto detect 1080/24 would have trouble with these discs.

IMHO the situation is far preferrable to forcing 24P and having video material look like crap.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fr123 View Post

Yes, a forced mode should be added.
I wonder how the toshibas handle that problem...

Fr123 - I got your PM; thanks for taking the time to contact me! However, I do have some questions before adding this as an official bug. Based on what I've read in the thread you sent me as well as Krobar's response above, it's my understanding that this is not really a BH200. Instead it's a problem with how the video is flagged or marked on the disk and so the same issue would be present in other HD disk players as well. It seems like more of an issue with the HD DVD format, but is also an issue on some Blu-rays.

So, again, if I'm reading Krobar's response correctly, would it not cause the video to "look like crap" if the BH200 forced every disk to output in 1080p/24? Let me know ... thanks!

-C.
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post #6 of 26 Old 05-26-2008, 02:09 AM
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A force mode could make the 1080P/24 film discs that are not flagged correctly work at 1080/24 but 1080i/60 material would look awful and you have to manually switch off forced mode for 1080I video discs.

Whilst on the subject of 1080/24 and bugs maybe you could add the BH200 handling of devices that are 1080I and 1080/24 capable but not 1080P/60 capable. The EDID on these devices is correct (Reports 1080I/60 Yes, 1080P/60 No, 1080P/24 Yes) but the BH200 does not offer Film Mode in conjuntion with 1080I/60. In a way a forced mode would be one way around this problem too.
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post #7 of 26 Old 05-26-2008, 03:38 AM
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I thought "Film Mode" being added was to force 24p?
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post #8 of 26 Old 05-26-2008, 04:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bradavon View Post

I thought "Film Mode" being added was to force 24p?

No, I think it was added to enable 24P auto switching.
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post #9 of 26 Old 05-26-2008, 04:55 AM
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How so? My TV isn't 24p so I won't be using it for some time.
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post #10 of 26 Old 05-26-2008, 05:11 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by casey.christian View Post

Based on what I've read in the thread you sent me as well as Krobar's response above, it's my understanding that this is not really a BH200. Instead it's a problem with how the video is flagged or marked on the disk and so the same issue would be present in other HD disk players as well. It seems like more of an issue with the HD DVD format, but is also an issue on some Blu-rays.
-C.

I think it´s an issue with this player, because ALL toshiba players can handle these titles and output 24p.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Krobar View Post

It is because the flags on the video streams on these discs are not correctly marked. Most players that auto detect 1080/24 would have trouble with these discs.

Is this a fact or just a guess, that the video streams on these titles are not correctly marked?
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post #11 of 26 Old 05-26-2008, 05:55 AM
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The Toshibas FORCE 1080/24. Try a video based disc like one of the concert ones and it will tear and look awful on a Tosh in 1080/24 mode.
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post #12 of 26 Old 05-26-2008, 06:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krobar View Post

The Toshibas FORCE 1080/24. Try a video based disc like one of the concert ones and it will tear and look awful on a Tosh in 1080/24 mode.

Thanks for the information.
I think we need a selectable "force 24p" mode for the LG BH200.
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post #13 of 26 Old 05-26-2008, 02:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bradavon View Post

I thought "Film Mode" being added was to force 24p?

Perhaps the menu item was added to force 24p *off* (for video source improperly flagged as film/24p, automatically going 24p would look awful). From that standpoint, the ability to force 24p off is an enhancement over pure "automatic" selection.

It would be helpful to force 24p "on" as well (again, for material improperly flagged). Essentially a 3 position switch:
- Auto
- On
- Off

While we're at it, an "Auto" function that doesn't depend entirely on flags.
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post #14 of 26 Old 05-26-2008, 04:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oilblue View Post

Perhaps the menu item was added to force 24p *off* (for video source improperly flagged as film/24p, automatically going 24p would look awful). From that standpoint, the ability to force 24p off is an enhancement over pure "automatic" selection.

It would be helpful to force 24p "on" as well (again, for material improperly flagged). Essentially a 3 position switch:
- Auto
- On
- Off

While we're at it, an "Auto" function that doesn't depend entirely on flags.

On, Off and Auto is very sensible suggestion but I dont think reading flags is a very big problem as pretty much all recent Bluray discs are correctly flagged. Switching to 24P typically involves a nice interrupting screen flash, mixed candence material such as that often present in making ofs and elaborate concerts would be interrupted by constant changes. It is much less damaging to run 1080/24 at 1080/60 occasionally than run 1080I video at 1080P/24.

Correct handling of 1080I/60 only devices capable of 1080/24 input would also be nice since that does not even require any complication of the existing menu structure.
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post #15 of 26 Old 09-26-2008, 11:57 PM - Thread Starter
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I updated my list of non-24p playable HD-DVDs.
I hope there will be a firmware fix that allows us to choose "forced 24p" like the Toshiba players!
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post #16 of 26 Old 09-27-2008, 11:26 PM
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@Fr123:
you can add "Serpico (Studio Canal)" to the list.
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post #17 of 26 Old 09-29-2008, 08:04 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pokolinos View Post

@Fr123:
you can add "Serpico (Studio Canal)" to the list.

Thanks! I also added "Matrix Reloaded" and "Matrix Revolutions". That is strange, because the "Matrix 1" HD-DVD works with 24 fps....
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post #18 of 26 Old 09-29-2008, 05:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fr123 View Post

Thanks! I also added "Matrix Reloaded" and "Matrix Revolutions". That is strange, because the "Matrix 1" HD-DVD works with 24 fps....

Matrix Reloaded" and "Matrix Revolutions" output 24p on my 52 xbr4, maybe the problems is
the flagging or handshaking with some sets?
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post #19 of 26 Old 09-29-2008, 10:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by gamerx2 View Post

Matrix Reloaded" and "Matrix Revolutions" output 24p on my 52 xbr4, maybe the problems is
the flagging or handshaking with some sets?

Are you sure you tested the German Versions of these discs with Dolby Digital+ sound in German and English? Maybe other versions (US, UK...) work with 24p output...
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post #20 of 26 Old 09-30-2008, 12:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fr123 View Post

Are you sure you tested the German Versions of these discs with Dolby Digital+ sound in German and English? Maybe other versions (US, UK...) work with 24p output...

Sorry ....English version for me
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post #21 of 26 Old 09-30-2008, 07:13 PM
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King Of California does 24p on my XA2 but will not on my BH200!
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post #22 of 26 Old 09-30-2008, 10:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Craigslue View Post

King Of California does 24p on my XA2 but will not on my BH200!

Thank you, I added it.
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post #23 of 26 Old 10-22-2008, 12:44 PM - Thread Starter
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New entry: 2001 Space Odyssey (Warner EU)
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post #24 of 26 Old 11-12-2008, 11:47 PM
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Add ..Superman II: The Richard Donner Cut and Happy Feat HD DVD USA Versions .........No 1080p/24p
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post #25 of 26 Old 11-14-2008, 04:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gamerx2 View Post

Add ..Superman II: The Richard Donner Cut and Happy Feat HD DVD USA Versions .........No 1080p/24p

Thanks, I added them to the list!
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post #26 of 26 Old 11-25-2008, 11:14 PM
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Well how about the master piece, ( Batman The Dark Knight) . Buddy add it in your list also. . Its my favorite one.


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