BD-UP5000 Universal Player from Samsung [pre release] - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 2339 Old 04-03-2007, 07:00 PM
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I hardley think that already owning an A-1 is reason to not buy a universal player for BD. The A-1 is 1080i.

"Plus I would rather have two separate HD players in case one player fails I do not loose both."

I do not think a uni player is a bad idea it that again I do not like the idea of loosing both formats if a single player goes down. I like the idea of having two players so if one goes down I can still watch the other one. If HD-DVD does indeed survive long enough and Denon or someone else builds a higher end player, I may end up buying it? I just have to many upgrades to do and not enough cash.

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post #92 of 2339 Old 04-03-2007, 07:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave Moritz View Post

I just have to many upgrades to do and not enough cash.

LOL! I think maybe we all suffer from that. Although I bought the LG, I still have my A-1. I'll probably just use it on the living room TV though.

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post #93 of 2339 Old 04-04-2007, 05:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Grubert View Post

Translation of the piece:

Blu-ray and HD DVD: Samsung too!

During an exclusive event Samsung invited us to late February, it unveiled the future hybrid Blu-ray/HD DVD player which will launch in July: the BD-UP5000.

Cosmetically it is very similar to the BD-P1200, the single-format Blu-ray player which will come out in April in the US.

This "Duo HD Player", as the CE maker calls it, will be 100 percent operational as regards interactivity, both on Blu-ray (BD-J) as on HD DVD (HDi).

It will have an HDMI 1.3 output and it will support all the new audio formats.

It will also be possible to setup the HDMI output at 1080/24p, but only for Blu-ray.

"It's because this option is not standardised on HD DVD yet", was the explanation.

For DVD upscaling (to 720p, 1080i or 1080p), Samsung has chosen DCDi processing (as opposed to HQV on the BD-P1200) for "cost reasons".

No final price has been disclosed, but Samsung is looking at a 10 percent price differential over the single-format Blu-ray players.

In other news, the European launch of the BD-P1200 has been delayed without a date.

[caption: Dr. Shin, the father of the BD]


To bad they are not using the HQV chip in this dual player. That would put this player very high on my want list.
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post #94 of 2339 Old 04-04-2007, 07:17 AM
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No 1080p on HD-DVD sounds like a copout. The LG does 1080p on HD-DVD and Blu-Ray.

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post #95 of 2339 Old 04-04-2007, 07:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sisko197 View Post

We're not playing in the format war to start with.

It's the studios that play in it. We're hapless victims of it. Now I know for the sorry lot that were drawn into the hype that the comeback kid by Toshiba was going to sieze the day and outdo the Champion out of the gate and win it that quick, so those people desperately want their investment into HD DVD, sizable for some (including me), to be worthwhile, I think you are not reading what was posted.

Universal players add a third option to a marketplace that already has too many options. General consumers don't go into a market that seems frought with uncertainty. Right now, they are holding back on BD and HD DVD to a large extent BECAUSE of that uncertainty. Throw in an expensive player that says it plays both, but not officially on one just confuses them. They say, "Why are there two standards? One of them is bound to go away."

They wait even longer.

One format wins though and the uncertainty vanishes. Universal could end this now and return certainty to the marketplace. Sure, the very small minority of consumers that have already invested in HD DVD would lose out on new discs, but they would go ahead and invest in BD now rather than wait, which would give Blu-ray that much needed push to finally come that much closer to mainstream.

As it is, consumers aren't jumping in because they're not sure what's going to play out. Dual format players don't fix this problem, they make it worse by throwing out lots of different options to confuse and delay.

Why do you think Samsung dropped the idea of a dual format player last year?

And do you really think the STUDIOS want to produce both formats? It costs them extra money to make discs on both formats because a small market is made smaller by being divided in half with different encodes (by the studios who care enough to do it), different cases, different SKU's.

Then the retailers care because they have to create shelving space for two different versions of the same movie in high definition because of dual format players extending the war.

So we aren't playing in it, but we are certainly going to be hurt by it in the longterm when high def disc prices don't drop below that 20 mark they're at now due to economies of scale not favoring a two format market.

And do consumers really want to pay more for a player that plays both? Or worse have to buy two players just to get all the movies they want?

I know I hated it and I hold Universal and Toshiba responsible for this problem. When two parties disagree, I'll hold the one with the easier solution to blame if that solution isn't done in the interests of the market. Universal and Toshiba could have ended this before it began, but were too self-interested to think of the market.

Meanwhile, the rest of the market was behind the other solution. U and T wanted to be difficult, so here we are. Sure they came out first, but only because they HAD to or they'd be dead already.

The war needs to end. Universal needs to end it now. Just like has been said, even if Universal went neutral, your discs you've already bought would not stop working.

Another scenario is that dual format players replace Blu-ray players in the marketplace forth most part but that cheaper HD DVD alone players find their niche at the low end for people that want HD upconversion of theri standard DVDs but don't care about Blu-ray content or don't want to pay the price premium.

Eventually dual format players dominate.

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post #96 of 2339 Old 04-04-2007, 07:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alfbinet View Post

Ottscay:

I am trying to get something from the HD DVD and BD insiders in the "Insiders" thread. So far Amir is the only one who has responded and his was shall we say "non committal." No BD insider has even attempted to respond. All I ask is "Has a BD exclusive CE Gone Neutral?"

I was told by Samsung people at CES a couple months ago that this player was under development.

Formal announcements of these things were beyond their scope but work on these items is somewhat of an open secret.

They said at the time that first announcements of it would be in the April time frame so this is consistent with it being real.

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post #97 of 2339 Old 04-04-2007, 07:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Kosty View Post

Eventually dual format players dominate.

I think this would be a logical progression for this whole format battle mess, assuming high quality dual format players become widely available at a competitive price

If only these had come to market at the start of the release of HD DVD and BR

[question just for fun: if you put a Total HD dual format disc in a dual format player: which side would you prefer to play?]

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post #98 of 2339 Old 04-04-2007, 07:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kosty View Post

I was told by Samsung people at CES a couple months ago that this player was under development.

Formal announcements of these things were beyond their scope but work on these items is somewhat of an open secret.

They said at the time that first announcements of it would be in the April time frame so this is consistent with it being real.

Kosty,

Amir is the only one who has anything to say on this. The "Insiders" thread is quiet on this one. No one has come out and denied it though. I guess we will just have to watch for (or not) future announcement from Samsung.

Some people seem to think the HD DVD side won't be outputting 1080p period. My take is that it will output 1080p/60 just not 1080p/24.

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post #99 of 2339 Old 04-04-2007, 08:00 AM
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Originally Posted by markrubin View Post

[question just for fun: if you put a Total HD dual format disc in a dual format player: which side would you prefer to play?]

If I have a choice, I wouldn't buy a dual HD format disk. And I find the current "dual format" HD disks with standard DVD formats as nothing but a total ripoff (a reason to charge an addition 5 bucks on top of an already premium price, for a useless second copy of the same movie on the same disk).

However, Now that I do have a dual HD format player, I have wondered which format I would buy, if both we're available. The answer is, I don't know. If there is a price difference, then I'll most likely take the least expensive. Frankly, this is where I think the "War" would be benificial to consumers. Sparking a "price war" instead of a "format war".

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post #100 of 2339 Old 04-04-2007, 08:05 AM
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Originally Posted by markrubin View Post

I think this would be a logical progression for this whole format battle mess, assuming high quality dual format players become widely available at a competitive price

If only these had come to market at the start of the release of HD DVD and BR

[question just for fun: if you put a Total HD dual format disc in a dual format player: which side would you prefer to play?]

Buying any THD disc....would be anything but fun....more like moronic.

I see a dual player and THD, as a way for Warner to keep porting the lower GB, lower bandwidth hd dvd versions of movies....instead of the 50 gb high bandwidth version....that happens to be the number 1 selling disc so far.

We don't need uni players...we need one format for the masses to adopt.
Anything that stands in the way of one format....leads to downloads taking over sooner..rather than later.
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post #101 of 2339 Old 04-04-2007, 08:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Earz View Post

We don't need uni players...we need one format for the masses to adopt.

I would have agreed with this about two years ago. Now I think it's a moot point, seeing how we HAVE two formats.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Earz View Post

Anything that stands in the way of one format....leads to downloads taking over sooner..rather than later.

This I totally disagree with.

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post #102 of 2339 Old 04-04-2007, 08:34 AM
 
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We don't need uni players...we need one format for the masses to adopt.

HD DVD could have been that format. A complete spec, fully compliant players, lower cost of players, quicker, easier, and more cost effective disc replication for the studios. If anyone has made a dual format player necessary, it is Sony, Fox, and Disney.
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post #103 of 2339 Old 04-04-2007, 08:49 AM
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questions..sorry if it has been covered already

a) DTS-HD decoder on board?
b) Analog sound outputs?
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post #104 of 2339 Old 04-04-2007, 08:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert George View Post

HD DVD could have been that format. A complete spec, fully compliant players, lower cost of players, quicker, easier, and more cost effective disc replication for the studios. If anyone has made a dual format player necessary, it is Sony, Fox, and Disney.


If BD did not come into the market.....yes hd dvd could easily be that format no doubt.

BD did arrive though, is superior in GB and bandwidth as well as giving us both hi res picture as well as audio that 30 gb is not always enough space for.

BD was thought to be the format that would win this so called war from the beggining...and after a rough patch... it is currently doing so.
Did anyone actually believe the PS3 would not have a huge affect on sales...well before it launched ?
I never had a doubt.
What we have is companies that were not able to comprehend that BD would sell more than hd dvd...once BD got its act together...now coming out with universal players that will not sell well because of cost.

Warner makes one attempt at a 50gb with PCM BD release....and it turns out to be the number 1 selling disc to this point on either format.
Yet they still plan on THD....which will sell for 40-50.00...further hurting any mass adoption with not only price....but also confusing the masses with three sections of discs instead of two.

But its Sony, Disney and Fox's fault

We can't keep looking at this as early adopter A/V enthusiast and expect to end up with anything other than downloads in our future.

The only way the masses will ever adopt HD discs ...is with one format...and of course cheaper pricing of both hardware and software.
I see universal players and THD discs as the opposite of whats really needed to go beyond less than nitchie.
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post #105 of 2339 Old 04-04-2007, 09:01 AM
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Please leave the pon-pons at the door of this thread.

Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.
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post #106 of 2339 Old 04-04-2007, 09:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Earz View Post

What we have is companies that were not able to comprehend that BD would sell more than hd dvd...once BD got its act together...now coming out with universal players that will not sell well because of cost.


IF they are priced at a 10% premium as stated earlier for this Samsung, then I think they will sell very well. If they get cheap enough to undercut the PS3, then its BD playing capabilities become simply a feature rather than a reason to buy.

This is a multibillion dollar chess game going on.
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post #107 of 2339 Old 04-04-2007, 10:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Kosty View Post

Another scenario is that dual format players replace Blu-ray players in the marketplace forth most part but that cheaper HD DVD alone players find their niche at the low end for people that want HD upconversion of theri standard DVDs but don't care about Blu-ray content or don't want to pay the price premium.

Actually what I am seeing are universal players, high-end BD players, low-end BD players, high-end HD DVD players, and low-end HD DVD players. Everyone is covering their bases.

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Eventually dual format players dominate.

PS3 is going dual format?

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post #108 of 2339 Old 04-05-2007, 08:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alfbinet View Post

Kosty,

Amir is the only one who has anything to say on this. The "Insiders" thread is quiet on this one. No one has come out and denied it though. I guess we will just have to watch for (or not) future announcement from Samsung.

Some people seem to think the HD DVD side won't be outputting 1080p period. My take is that it will output 1080p/60 just not 1080p/24.

That's a very good point. The early posts here sort of implied that HD DVD would be output at 1080i - but the translation above shows that HD DVD will be output at 1080p, but not 1080p24.

This player will be a good addition to the market.

With the audio support presumably for both formats too.

If the 1080p/24 is the only disparity between HD DVD and Bluray playback, I may well place an order for one of these.

The real test will be the PQ, of course.
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post #109 of 2339 Old 04-05-2007, 09:15 PM
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Originally Posted by kjack View Post

PS3 is going dual format?

PS3 is going where game consoles have gone before : to mostly gamers interested in games first. Because the first batch of hardcore video afficionados bought it as a cheaper BR player, and starving gamers bought some BR movies while waiting doesn't make it the holy grail.

Let's be realistic : as much as some would like it to happen, BR is very unlikely to crush HD DVD and both will most likely co-exist for a long while. In that kind of scenario, the sooner full featured, affordable, universal players enter the picture, the better for everybody.

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post #110 of 2339 Old 04-06-2007, 01:18 AM
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Originally Posted by BuGsArEtAsTy View Post

No it doesn't. It makes it irrelevant. Witness the the DVD+R/-R war.

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That war is dead.
I don't know of any CE's making players for only + or -
every DVD burner I've owned for the past several years has supported both formats.
Occasionally -R discs are cheaper and the alpine unit in my truck seems to like them better but there really isn't a war between +/- anymore it's dead has been.

PS3 & A2 = Format Neutral
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post #111 of 2339 Old 04-06-2007, 01:19 AM
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Originally Posted by En Sabur Nur View Post

More universal players. More software. Less fanboys.

werd.
Getting to enjoy all movies regardless of format is better than bickering about one being superior when in the real world neither shows an advantage once the product got off the paper.

PS3 & A2 = Format Neutral
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post #112 of 2339 Old 04-06-2007, 01:21 AM
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Originally Posted by eurotrance View Post

PS3 is going where game consoles have gone before : to mostly gamers interested in games first. Because the first batch of hardcore video afficionados bought it as a cheaper BR player, and starving gamers bought some BR movies while waiting doesn't make it the holy grail.

Let's be realistic : as much as some would like it to happen, BR is very unlikely to crush HD DVD and both will most likely co-exist for a long while. In that kind of scenario, the sooner full featured, affordable, universal players enter the picture, the better for everybody.

Or in the case of a few people I know the PS3 converted them to gamers. Myself included. I bought it was a cheapest BD player to compliment my HD-A2. Now I find myself spending much more time gaming on it than watching movies. I played Ridge Racer 7 yesterday for nearly 6 hours doing the Grand Prix.

PS3 & A2 = Format Neutral
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post #113 of 2339 Old 04-08-2007, 02:44 AM
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Originally Posted by alfbinet View Post

Amir is the only one who has anything to say on this. The "Insiders" thread is quiet on this one. No one has come out and denied it though.

How can anyone but a Samsung insider deny what Samsung might or might not release?!? I haven't seen anyone here claiming to be from Samsung, so lack of a denial means nothing.

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post #114 of 2339 Old 04-10-2007, 08:51 AM
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Well, this isn't independent confirmation, but at least Engadget gives it a mention:

http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/04/09...r-swirl-again/

Their "source" is a really bad translation from Japanese of a site which has the French article in it. Ok...
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post #115 of 2339 Old 04-10-2007, 09:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eurotrance View Post

PS3 is going where game consoles have gone before : to mostly gamers interested in games first. Because the first batch of hardcore video afficionados bought it as a cheaper BR player, and starving gamers bought some BR movies while waiting doesn't make it the holy grail.

Let's be realistic : as much as some would like it to happen, BR is very unlikely to crush HD DVD and both will most likely co-exist for a long while. In that kind of scenario, the sooner full featured, affordable, universal players enter the picture, the better for everybody.

All in your opinion of course.

My opinion is that if Blu-ray can bring 4-5 killer titles of the magnitude of Casino Royale to market for Christmas 2007, amd a cheaper player. times up for HD-DVD as anything other than a niche product, ala Laserdisc.

HD-DVD won't go away, but it's sales and impact will be limited.

Dual players are pefect fo HD-DVD owners looking to jump on the Blu-ray bandwagon.
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post #116 of 2339 Old 04-10-2007, 10:15 AM
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longshot,

Quote:


Yeah, you know like the website that said certain Spielberg movies "were coming soon to HD DVD"

Yeah, you know like the website that said certain Fox movies "were coming soon to BD
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post #117 of 2339 Old 04-10-2007, 07:30 PM
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Just my opinion but something doesn't sound right about the French article on this rumored universal player from Samsung. A 10% increase in cost doesn't sound like it would be enough to cover the additional royalties, hardware, and testing that would be needed to make a fully compliant universal player. Also so far it looks like the French article is the only source for this rumor.
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post #118 of 2339 Old 04-10-2007, 07:38 PM
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post #119 of 2339 Old 04-10-2007, 07:51 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Richard Paul View Post

Just my opinion but something doesn't sound right about the French article on this rumored universal player from Samsung. A 10% increase in cost doesn't sound like it would be enough to cover the additional royalties, hardware, and testing that would be needed to make a fully compliant universal player. Also so far it looks like the French article is the only source for this rumor.

Richard, my contacts have confirmed Samsung's development of a hybrid HD DVD/BD player. The retail will be around $1k. and it will be fully BD-J and HD DVD compliant.

-Robert
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post #120 of 2339 Old 04-10-2007, 08:06 PM
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Quote:

Once again the French article is the only source I know of that mentions this rumored universal player from Samsung. The article you linked to was from the summer of last year and says that they were considering a universal player.


Quote:
Originally Posted by DTV TiVo Dealer View Post

Richard, my contacts have confirmed Samsung's development of a hybrid HD DVD/BD player. The retail will be around $1k. and it will be fully BD-J and HD DVD compliant.

Well with an MSRP of around $1000 that would sound more likely though I would still recommend caution in believing everything in that French article. Also Robert did any of your contacts mention details about this universal player?
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