LG BH200 Owner Review - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 2668 Old 10-20-2007, 09:23 PM - Thread Starter
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OK, here goes a quick review.

My system is a 61" DLP LED Samsung set w/ Onkyo 605 receiver. Connection is HDMI to the Onkyo and then HDMI to my Sammy.

Please note that I have never owned a standalone HD format player before. I do have an HTPC with HDMI out to my set and have 'previewed' some HDDVD and BR rips previously.

*HDDVD and Blu-Ray PQ are excellent.

*The player is slow to start up a new disc, compared to the PC playing a disc ripped to the HD. This is to be expected of course. BR seems to start slightly faster. This may be because it is earlier in the "what kind of disc is this?" sequence that the player is running. It takes forever to start a standard def DVD as well, so there you go. UPDATED: Actual startup times posted below.

*The player will re-compress the new formats to DTS on the fly. Never heard of this before. Guess since it does not have 5.1 analog outs this is a compromise. It will send the DTS out the digital output or HDMI. Since my HDMI is going to a new receiver that supports the new codecs and I pass everything to it directly I have no idea how good the re-compression is.

*All the audio bitstreams passed to my REC were detected and decoded. (PCM5.1, DD+, etc) Dolby TrueHD was NOT passed to my REC as expected. LG has already said this will take a firmware update. UPDATED: DTS-HD-MA was confirmed by LG at some point but still is not being passed. Only DTS Core.

*The player (at this point) does not have any option to output 24p.
The player definitely does not have an option to 'force' 24p.

*The network portion of the player does not seem to have a "check for new firmware" type option. It has basic net settings and login and password fields. I don't have the book so I have no idea what this is for.

*The standard DVD output is GODAWFUL. I don't plan to use this as a DVD player so I don't care, but be forewarned. Yes, It's that bad. UPDATED: Others report that the SD quality is not nearly as bad as I think it is. Read below for more opinions.

*There is no "zoom" feature. It handles all the aspect ratio stuff automagically and it does not appear to be configurable other than setting the output AR of the display. If it is standard def, NON-Anamorphic, widescreen material, ie. Extras, it is window boxed with bars on all sides I am afraid. No way around that on this player it seems.

*The remote is **** and slow to respond even in the native menu of the player.

*The menus resemble those on the BH100. (From the screens I've seen in this forum.)

*Navigating the HD disc menus is choppy and slow. Again, I am used to the PC and PowerDVD but it seems very clunky. It works, but just feels like a gui running on a machine who's processor is at 100%. HDDVD seems a little worse that BR in this respect but they are both slow.

Questions?

PS: How did I get it and where? See http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...1#post11966731.
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post #2 of 2668 Old 10-20-2007, 09:40 PM
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Well that sucks! I was hopeing for some good sd playback. From what I understand it does not decode the new codecs internally and now that I now it does a bad job on SD playback, this player is now off my birthday / Chistmas list. I really hope the SD playback you speak of is not true (wishfull thinking). My sammy 1200 did a GREAT job on SD playback. I am spoiled and won't go for anything less. I don't have a pre that has HDMI in so I am SOL there as far as the audio goes. Hopefully Sammy will come out with their combo player soon.
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post #3 of 2668 Old 10-20-2007, 09:45 PM
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Thanks for the review.
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post #4 of 2668 Old 10-20-2007, 09:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speeeedy View Post

Hopefully Sammy will come out with their combo player soon.

I think for the majority of people the Samsung will be a better option. The LG really does not have any negatives for me because of my setup and how I will use the player and for $200 off (open-box) it was a damn good deal. For $999 it sounds like the Samsung is far and away a better choice feature-wise.

If LG wants to be competitive they need to drop the price of this player $200 in my opinon.
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post #5 of 2668 Old 10-20-2007, 10:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HyPyke View Post

.................................
*There is no "zoom" feature. It handles all the aspect ratio stuff automagically and it does not appear to be configurable other than setting the output AR of the display. If it is standard def, NON-Anamorphic, widescreen material, ie. Extras, it is window boxed with bars on all sides I am afraid. No way around that on this player it seems. The remote has a "resolution" button that is for use by the TV control portion of the universal remote. It does not seem to work on the player at all.
.....................................

Thanks for the zoom and aspect control information.
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post #6 of 2668 Old 10-20-2007, 10:20 PM
 
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Thanks for the brief rundown. Still holding out for the Samsung here...if it retails for $800, LG's likely to be in big trouble.
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post #7 of 2668 Old 10-20-2007, 10:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HyPyke View Post

I think for the majority of people the Samsung will be a better option. The LG really does not have any negatives for me because of my setup and how I will use the player and for $200 off (open-box) it was a damn good deal. For $999 it sounds like the Samsung is far and away a better choice feature-wise.

If LG wants to be competitive they need to drop the price of this player $200 in my opinon.

Thank you VERY much for your for being as truthfull as you were on your review. Normally when someone gets a new product it is the best thing every made.Your review helped me very much!
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post #8 of 2668 Old 10-20-2007, 11:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speeeedy View Post

Thank you VERY much for your for being as truthfull as you were on your review. Normally when someone gets a new product it is the best thing every made.Your review helped me very much!

What he said. I appreciate your honesty and will hold on however much longer it takes for the Samsung.
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post #9 of 2668 Old 10-21-2007, 03:42 AM
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Is there any chance that this have bd-java 1.1?
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post #10 of 2668 Old 10-21-2007, 03:48 AM
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Hi HyPyke,

Thanks for the review. A couple of quick questions:

1) Any chance you could time an HDDVD and Bluray disc startup from pressing play with the disc in the tray to first seeing video?

2) Does the slow menu navigation apply to HDDVD and BD?

3) Have you tried any DTS HD MA discs with the BH200? Do they work with your Onkyo 605?
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post #11 of 2668 Old 10-21-2007, 04:48 AM
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Very strange that it does not have 1080/24P output as even the BH100 has is and the specs for the BH200 stated that it would?

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post #12 of 2668 Old 10-21-2007, 05:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A/Vspec View Post

Very strange that it does not have 1080/24P output as even the BH100 has is and the specs for the BH200 stated that it would?

yeah, that surprises me as well. maybe the 1080p setting defaults to 24 and reverts to 60 if it doesn't get the handshake, but there's no forced 24.

HyPyke - if you get a chance, can check the manual to see if it says anything about 1080p24?

sounds like i'll be sticking with my original plan of getting an A30 and a PS3. i need to have good SD upscaling.

--kevin--
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post #13 of 2668 Old 10-21-2007, 06:46 AM
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This really shows the importance of a forum such as this- a big no-no box for me.
Big thumbs up for HyPyke!
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post #14 of 2668 Old 10-21-2007, 07:06 AM
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as long as I can rip my HD or BR DVDs to the HTPC for playback later its still going to be awesome for me.

Thanks for the report but SD playback should matter to anyone with an HTPC anyways! You should rip all your DVDs to a disk and then playback as you want using whatever software you want to pick, so much more effecient usage.

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post #15 of 2668 Old 10-21-2007, 07:17 AM
 
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Does this thing output DTS-HD MA bitstream?
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post #16 of 2668 Old 10-21-2007, 08:22 AM
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I have to think that LG may have shipped these units for display only, ie not quite ready for prime time, considering a lot have "do not sell" stickers on them, and aren't connected to anything in the display. There also seems to be no firm delivery date, I get a different story depending on who I ask.

Maybe they are just getting something on the shelf before Samsung does to get people talking, which it has done here.
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post #17 of 2668 Old 10-21-2007, 08:24 AM
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Quote:


*The player (at this point) does not have any option to output 24p

Arghh! How come most all the pro reviews say 1080p at 24fps? Do you know for sure that was NOT outputting 24fps? Do you have a way to know what the frame rate being sent to the display was?

If true, this eliminates the unit for me.

OTOH, perhaps this was not a full final production run player or was somehow crippled. Maybe that is why they are not supposed to be selling them?

What it does settle for me is that I will now change my mind and wait for both this and the Sammy to be in consumer hands and check real world reviews like this at that time and then decide. I do have a HTPC and combo drive that will play most discs, so waiting is not a big deal.

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post #18 of 2668 Old 10-21-2007, 08:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Some replies to questions and comments:

Quote:


1) Any chance you could time an HDDVD and Bluray disc startup from pressing play with the disc in the tray to first seeing video?

Oh dear god no. I am WAY too lazy to do that. It is marginally faster at best with BluRay. The information here seems pretty accurate based on my experience except that the times are reversed. Can't explain that. :-/

Quote:


2) Does the slow menu navigation apply to HDDVD and BD?

Yes. Re-read my review. Its slow in both but most noticeable on HDDVD

Quote:


3) Have you tried any DTS HD MA discs with the BH200? Do they work with your Onkyo 605?

No discs in my collection at this time that I can test with. The DD TrueHD issue was expected. LG said it would not ship with support but that it would definitely have it via firmware update. My guess is a licensing issue. I assume that DTS HD MA will already pass.

"Update: This post has been updated to reflect that LG has confirmed that the BH200 can output DTS-HD Master Audio in bitstream format, that it fully supports Blu-ray profile 1.1 and has only stereo analog outputs." from here.

Quote:


yeah, that surprises me as well. maybe the 1080p setting defaults to 24 and reverts to 60 if it doesn't get the handshake, but there's no forced 24.

Ok guys, I could be wrong about this. I assumed my set could handle 24p. It is a Sammy HL-T6187S. It might have been that the 89S did 24P. Someone is welcome to do research to determine if this is the case. I can tell it is 1080p 60hz as I have an information screen on my TV that tells me res and refresh.

Quote:


HyPyke - if you get a chance, can check the manual to see if it says anything about 1080p24?

No book. Sorry. See my post on how I got it. I can't find the manual online yet so won't know until it shows up. If any one has spotted it post a link.

Quote:


Is there any chance that this have bd-java 1.1?

"Update: This post has been updated to reflect that LG has confirmed that the BH200 can output DTS-HD Master Audio in bitstream format, that it fully supports Blu-ray profile 1.1 and has only stereo analog outputs." from here.

Quote:


I have to think that LG may have shipped these units for display only, ie not quite ready for prime time, considering a lot have "do not sell" stickers on them, and aren't connected to anything in the display.

Well, that is possible but from a hardware standpoint I think this is it. Just based on the back of the player it has all the UL and other cert logos it should, It has a serial and PN and all the requisite manufacturer info. If there are changes to be made I would suspect that they would be firmware related.
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post #19 of 2668 Old 10-21-2007, 09:22 AM
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"Ok guys, I could be wrong about this. I assumed my set could handle 24p. It is a Sammy HL-T6187S. It might have been that the 89S did 24P. Someone is welcome to do research to determine if this is the case. I can tell it is 1080p 60hz as I have an information screen on my TV that tells me res and refresh."

The 6187 can do 24p
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post #20 of 2668 Old 10-21-2007, 09:39 AM
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As far as your display at 24fps, here is what a review said about a related Sammy unit:

"The Samsung will accept a 1080p/24fps input, but it converts it internally to 1080p/60fps prior to display. And it will not accept a 1080p/24fps input from Samsung's own BD-P1200 Blu-ray player, a trait it shares with the Samsung LN-T5265F flat panel LCD.

It did accept a 1080p/24 input from the Pioneer Elite BDP-HD1 BD player, but its 24fps performance with that player was unsatisfactory. It skipped a frame or two every few minutes, which caused the image to stutter. I sent 1080p/60 to the set for all of my HD disc viewing."

This is from: Ultimate AV

Also a thread on those Sammy displays at: Digital Home Forum

So it does look like the 24fps issue MAY (or may not) have been your display.

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post #21 of 2668 Old 10-21-2007, 10:35 AM
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I have the Sony Black Pearl HyPyke so bring that BH-200 on up here to Pennsylvania and we can really test it out!

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post #22 of 2668 Old 10-21-2007, 02:06 PM
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Did you play standard dvds upscaled? this On the bh100 its not that great either at 1080p but upscaling to 720p helps also 480p. Also some times players don,t marry well with certain displays, The LG might look great on one display and not good on another. So till moe peple buy this and we get a better mix of display types i'll be sceptical of one review. since my LG BH100 looks outstanding on my Electrohome Marqee 8000 at 1080p.
I find it hard to belive the second gen player could look worse. If it had analog outs i'd go get one too and review it extensivly. the analog outs of the BH 100 are extreamly good sounding and I dont know why they excluded them. hopefully they's come out with a top of the line model with this featuer.

Athanasios
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post #23 of 2668 Old 10-21-2007, 02:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nashou66 View Post

Did you play standard dvds upscaled? this On the bh100 its not that great either at 1080p but upscaling to 720p helps also 480p.

At your suggestion I tried forcing the player to 480p and 720p while viewing standard def DVDs.

No real improvement. Still as bad as before. In the word of the Grinch, "all the noise, noise, noise, noise!" Plus, mpeg blocking everywhere. More blocks than a Lego factory explosion. I tried 2 different SD flicks with the same results.
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post #24 of 2668 Old 10-21-2007, 02:33 PM
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Hmm wonder if the Demo unit is not a full unit yet? no macro blocking with the BH100 for me and also after the latest firmwear updates i have had no probs with any disc! I hope LG didnt mess up with the BH200, that be a sad thing for the offspring of the BH100 which i think is an excelent player.

Athanasios
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post #25 of 2668 Old 10-21-2007, 03:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Update:

I got some more discs today, all HDDVD, and I've crashed the player twice so far. Once on Casablanca and once on Black Rain. Both times I selected commentary tracks from the special features menu. I was able to get it to work after a reboot.

Both times it crashed I had to power off with the remote. Stop would not work and none of the menus either.
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post #26 of 2668 Old 10-22-2007, 05:04 AM
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I also believe that this is probably a unit with limited/unfinished features...they had to ship those probably a month ago, or longer, and they weren't really ready yet...thats why it says 'do not sell'..if the unit had been ready for mass-production at that time, they would have started selling them already, especially consdering that they are in a 'race' with Samsung.
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post #27 of 2668 Old 10-22-2007, 06:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bulacawa View Post

I also believe that this is probably a unit with limited/unfinished features...they had to ship those probably a month ago, or longer, and they weren't really ready yet...thats why it says 'do not sell'..if the unit had been ready for mass-production at that time, they would have started selling them already, especially consdering that they are in a 'race' with Samsung.

Another thing , None of the display units are actually connected to the TV. its the bose sytem plying the demo for it. And wehn i asked for them to connect it they said that they cant for resons they coulld not tell me.

I'd take it back and wait for an actual stock item to be out ofr sale.

Athanasios
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post #28 of 2668 Old 10-22-2007, 07:35 AM
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How bizarre is that, BB "maybe" selling "unfinished" units? In a way I hope this is the case because I paid for one in full and I'm just waiting for the stock to come in.

I hope MY unit will be fully functional, especially all the key features, 24p, BD-Live, HDi, etc..
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post #29 of 2668 Old 10-22-2007, 07:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rp683 View Post

How bizarre is that, BB "maybe" selling "unfinished" units? In a way I hope this is the case because I paid for one in full and I'm just waiting for the stock to come in.

I hope MY unit will be fully functional, especially all the key features, 24p, BD-Live, HDi, etc..


Quote:
Originally Posted by bulacawa View Post

I also believe that this is probably a unit with limited/unfinished features...they had to ship those probably a month ago, or longer, and they weren't really ready yet...thats why it says 'do not sell'..if the unit had been ready for mass-production at that time, they would have started selling them already, especially consdering that they are in a 'race' with Samsung.

Guys, this is wishful thinking. The box is "complete" hardware wise. Again, it may need an upgrade of firmware but what player hasn't? It is already "feature complete". The 24p issue is more than likely my set. All other features match the specs. This unit is coming out this month according to the LG press release. That is, what, a week or two from now.

As for the reason it was not "hooked up", the player is not actually PART of the display. It is "on display" with the LG set and bose speakers. Since the player and all the buttons are easily accessible to people walking by, the looped video is fed from somewhere else. There is a panel with buttons that you can hit to select more information that then plays on the screen.

See the pic here.

All the "shortcomings" of this player have been known since the player was seen at CEDIA. No 5.1 analogs was by design apparently. No press release has ever mentioned support for Dolby TrueHD that I can tell. As far as the standard def DVD playback, that would be the one thing that the player would ship with intact, fully working. DVD playback is not an unknown or still evolving technology. Plus take into account that it's my 'opinion' that it is awful.

This is also not the first HDDVD or Blu-Ray player to crash occasionally. For more info see anything made by SONY.

If the Samsung player will indeed sell for 799 as stated in this or another thread recently, then it will kill the LG. Sorry, it's true. For me personally, I am satisfied. The video performance of the HD discs is great. Besides one or two minor issues the unit performs well in my setup and I am glad to finally have a dual format player and to not have to wait until December to get one.
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post #30 of 2668 Old 10-22-2007, 08:13 AM
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That BLOWS display is just weird. Obviously the idea of some typically clueless marketing bozo. What a waste of a player.

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