Displays that support 1080p/24 signal at multiplies of the original frame rate - Page 3 - AVS Forum
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Old 12-19-2007, 02:11 AM
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Great thread indeed! I live in Europe and have a question about a Sony model which apparently does not exist in the US. Does anyone know if the KDL 40-D3500 refreshes at 120 Hz? The KDL-X3500 is, as far as I know, the European equivalent of the XBR5 and does the job, but it is much more expensive than the D3500. And it seems we do not have the XBR4 in Europe.

Thanks for the help!
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Old 12-19-2007, 05:16 AM
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This thread should be a "Sticky".
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Old 12-19-2007, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by sunnysky View Post

This thread should be a "Sticky".

Agreed.
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Old 12-19-2007, 12:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Honey1 View Post

Great thread indeed! I live in Europe and have a question about a Sony model which apparently does not exist in the US. Does anyone know if the KDL 40-D3500 refreshes at 120 Hz? The KDL-X3500 is, as far as I know, the European equivalent of the XBR5 and does the job, but it is much more expensive than the D3500. And it seems we do not have the XBR4 in Europe.

Thanks for the help!

This list only includes US models since I am not familiar with International models and it would take a lot more time to include true 1080P/24 models made for the entire world. Anyone that wants to create a worldwide list of 1080P/24 models is welcome to do so on a separate link. Such a list would be beneficial for consumers living in Europe, Australia, Japan, and many other countries.
In answer to your question over in Europe 50HZ is the standard refresh rate for TV’s which is the same as the better more efficient 220 Volts 50HZ electrical system. The Sony KDL-X3500 will frame double 1080P/50 to 100HZ. When motion flow is turned off multiplies of the original frame is performed. When motion flow is turned on interpolation of a extra frame between each source frame is performed to make the image look more smooth. What I am not sure about is how the model handles 1080P/24. Most likely when motion flow is turned off the Sony in theory might do a 4:4 pulldown and refresh 1080P/24 material at 96HZ. I do not know for sure and it is possible the European model could convert 24fps to 100fps using incorrect pulldown.
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Old 12-19-2007, 04:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raptor007 View Post

Samsung's 71 series LCDs will be getting an official firmware update soon that will remove all interpolation when AutoMotionPlus is off. A pre-release version has been unofficially leaked already.

In addition to getting rid of the "TBE", this new firmware should allow a pure 5:5 when AMP is off. With older firmware there's some unwanted interpolation going on when AMP is off, so it's technically not duplicating frames correctly.

"[Samsung]'s engineers claim that their sets perform the ideal 5:5 conversion, simply multiplying every frame; 5x24 equals 120."
http://reviews.cnet.com/flat-panel-t...-32514512.html

Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTV1080P24 View Post

Thanks for the information. As soon as I read a professional review on the new Samsung firmware once it is released or a press release I will then add the Samsung's to the list.

The firmwares (there are two) that do 5:5 have been released according to the Samsung 71 owners thread.
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Old 12-19-2007, 09:01 PM - Thread Starter
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The Marantz VP-11S1BL and VP-15S1 DLP 1080P Front projectors have been added to the list


The older VP-11S1BL with a new firmware update will accept a 1080P/24 signal input and flash it on the screen at 48fps (HZ).

quote
According to Marantz's Dan Miller there is already a firmware update in the works that will allow the VP-11S1 to show 1080/24p sources at 48fps, which as a multiple of film's 24fps eliminate the temporal distortions that occur in converting to 60fps.
http://www.guidetohometheater.com/videoprojectors/506marantzvp11s1/index1.html

The new Marantz VP-15S1 according to the review starting on page 74 of the January 2008 Perfect Vision magazine also refreshes 1080P/24 material at 48HZ.

Quote from page 75 of January 2008 Perfect Vision magazine
The Marantz is able to avoid applying 3:2 pulldown because it can run at more than one speed. When fed a 1080P/24 signal, it doubles the frame rate and displays the image at 48fps. Each frame is flashed twice (which is also what film projectors do).
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Old 12-20-2007, 12:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTV1080P24 View Post

This list only includes US models since I am not familiar with International models and it would take a lot more time to include true 1080P/24 models made for the entire world. Anyone that wants to create a worldwide list of 1080P/24 models is welcome to do so on a separate link. Such a list would be beneficial for consumers living in Europe, Australia, Japan, and many other countries.
In answer to your question over in Europe 50HZ is the standard refresh rate for TV's which is the same as the better more efficient 220 Volts 50HZ electrical system. The Sony KDL-X3500 will frame double 1080P/50 to 100HZ. When motion flow is turned off multiplies of the original frame is performed. When motion flow is turned on interpolation of a extra frame between each source frame is performed to make the image look more smooth. What I am not sure about is how the model handles 1080P/24. Most likely when motion flow is turned off the Sony in theory might do a 4:4 pulldown and refresh 1080P/24 material at 96HZ. I do not know for sure and it is possible the European model could convert 24fps to 100fps using incorrect pulldown.

Thanks for the answer. I think the X-3500 does handle 24p properly. From the info. I gathered yesterday, its eems that the European models D-3500, V-3000 and W-3000 also do. These models all have the option called "True Cinema" by Sony Europe, and some of them do not have motion flow.
I also gave a look at the manual of the X-3500; I did not find any menntion of the refresh rate. I guess we'll have to trust Sony...

Thanks again for the answer, and the great thread!
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Old 12-20-2007, 07:58 AM
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are the differenences of watching 1080p24 noticeable to the untrained eye? I currently have the xbr3 and the BD-UP5000, and I would gladly upgrade to the xbr5 if it is a noticeable difference. Im just confused as the "where" the differences lie -
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Old 12-20-2007, 05:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patsc23 View Post

are the differenences of watching 1080p24 noticeable to the untrained eye? I currently have the xbr3 and the BD-UP5000, and I would gladly upgrade to the xbr5 if it is a noticeable difference. Im just confused as the "where" the differences lie -

The 1080P/24 feature is a minor feature. When shopping for features on a new display contrast ratios, response times, black levels, and 1080P native resolutions are more important. A display that handles 1080P/24 at multiplies of the original frame will give one a smother less judder image with camera pans and some other minor improvements. If you already own a 1080P display with a 1080P/60 input you might only notice a minor improvement when watching BLU-RAY and HD-DVD discs on a true 1080P/24 display.
I noticed that you own the new Samsung BD-UP5000 dual format player that was just released. I hope you are enjoying it. I am considering getting one or more of the dual format players in the future.
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Old 12-20-2007, 07:42 PM - Thread Starter
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The following Sony Rear projectors have been removed from the list since they have been cancled before being released


Sony KDS-Z70XBR5
Sony KDS-Z60XBR5

Sony has officially canceled all Rear projector screens which includes both the 3 LCD and SXRD models. I will remove all the Sony rear projectors from the list once inventories are depleted from retail stores and discount mail order companies. The purpose of the list is to keep true 1080P/24 displays on the list that can still be found for purchase. More details about Sony's business decision can be read at the following link

http://www.twice.com/article/CA6514401.html

Many people were waiting to purchase the new Sony 70 inch SXRD rear projector that has just been canceled. Last years 70 inch Sony rear projector cost $4,000-$5,000 on clearance. If you want a Sony 70 inch now your only choice is a $32,999 LCD screen that does not have as good of black levels and response times.
For $33,000 I can get an excellent front projector that will run circles around the 70 inch BRAVIA LCD flat panel. Sony needs to try and lower the cost on the 70 LCD flat panel if possible. I would rather get the Pioneer Elite 60 inch Plasma for $7,500 (list price).
Most consumers when they saw flat panels at retail they liked the brighter thinner screens compared to the large big rear projector. They were willing to purchase the more expensive LCD and Plasma screens at a higher price. Just because the screen looks brighter does not mean LCD's have a better picture. The reality is rear projectors like the Sony SXRD have a 2.5ms response time and better black levels. I would choose a rear projector over a LCD flat panel any day for serious movie watching. Some SXRD consumers shopping in the future for a new display will now decide to either replace or upgrade their displays with either a Pioneer Elite Plasma or a Sony ceiling mounted Front Projector SXRD screen.

For those that want a Sony SXRD rear projector with a true 1080P/24 120HZ feature you will need to purchase it now since inventories will be depleted soon. Here is a comparison of prices between rear projectors and flat panel LCD and Plasma screens

The Sony KDS-60A3000 60 inch can be purchased for around $1815 from various discount mail order companies. Discontinued rear projector
http://www.pricerunner.com/pl/2-984807/TVs/Sony-Bravia-KDS-60A3000-Compare-Prices?other_hits=%3B%3B25%3B&q=sony+kds-60a3000

Once the Sony 60 inch is sold out the only current choice in a 60 inch flat panel with true 1080P/24 refresh rates is the Pioneer. The Pioneer Elite 60 inch Plasma can be found for around $7,000
http://www.pricerunner.com/pl/2-1017165/TVs/Pioneer-Elite-PRO-150FD-Compare-Prices?other_hits=%3B%3B19%3B&q=pioneer+pro-150fd

There is the 60 inch Pioneer PDP-6010FD Plasma which can be found for around $4400.
http://www.pricerunner.com/pl/2-993059/TVs/Pioneer-PDP-6010FD-Compare-Prices?q=pdp-6010fd

The Sony KDS-55A3000 55 inch can be purchased for around $1623. Discontinued rear projector
http://www.pricerunner.com/pl/2-984825/TVs/Sony-Bravia-KDS-55A3000-Compare-Prices?other_hits=%3B%3B25%3B&q=sony+kds-55a3000

For under $1400 the Sony KDS-50A3000 50 inch can be purchased from some locations Discontinued rear projector
http://www.pricerunner.com/pl/2-984830/TVs/Sony-Bravia-KDS-50A3000-Compare-Prices?other_hits=%3B%3B25%3B&q=sony+kds-50a3000

Or one can choose the Sony KDL-52XBR5 52 inch flat panel for around $3649
http://www.pricerunner.com/pl/2-983416/TVs/Sony-KDL-52XBR5-Compare-Prices?q=kdl-52xbr5

The Pioneer PRO-110FD 50 inch Elite Plasma can be found for under $4,500
http://www.pricerunner.com/pl/2-1017150/TVs/Pioneer-Elite-PRO-110FD-Compare-Prices?q=pro-110fd

The Pioneer PDP-5010FD 50 inch Plasma can be found for under $3400.
http://www.pricerunner.com/pl/2-991611/TVs/Pioneer-PDP-5010FD-Compare-Prices?q=pdp-5010fd


Looking at the above prices you can see that prices are going to shoot up very fast once rear projectors are gone from the market. The Sony 70 inch SXRD rear projector use to sale for $4,000-$5,000 on clearance and now if you want a 70 inch Sony you will be paying $32,999 for a flat panel LCD. To be fair the Sony KDL-70XBR3 can be found for around $28,000 from discount Internet companies. The KDL-70XBR3 appears to only have a 1080P/60 input no 1080P/24 input.
http://www.pricerunner.com/pl/2-888055/TVs/Sony-Bravia-KDL-70XBR3-Compare-Prices?q=kdl-70xbr3
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Old 12-20-2007, 10:25 PM
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Great thread and info, thanks.

I think 2008 will be the year that all LCDs do this with 120Hz (5:5). That will be a big feature, as well as thinner bezels and better contrast.
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Old 12-30-2007, 02:53 PM
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good thread

"Why am I Mr. Pink?"
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Old 01-02-2008, 02:39 PM
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Please no one use this thread and buy up the remaining Sony KDSs. I need to sell my older Samsung DLP before I can pull the trigger. For sub $2000 the KDS-A603000 is probably the best buy in displays right now.
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Old 01-02-2008, 03:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CKNA View Post

No your display does not properly display 24Hz. It accepts 24Hz but displays it at 60Hz. This thread is about displays that properly multiply 24Hz to either 48Hz, 72Hz, 96Hz or 120Hz.

What's your source? I've never seen a definitive answer either way, but all the evidence I've seen leans toward the Samsung 69/71 properly doing 5:5 when AMP is completely off (on the 71, that means upgrading to firmware 1013.1 or 2004).


Quote:
Originally Posted by kjgarrison View Post

The firmwares (there are two) that do 5:5 have been released according to the Samsung 71 owners thread.

They're not really "released", they're just available on request. So I doubt we'll see a real review of them yet.

I have the latest firmware for my 71's boards (1013.1) and will report back once my BD-UP5000 arrives (which outputs 24Hz for both HD-DVD and Blu-ray).

Samsung BD-UP5000 (1.3), Samsung 4671 (1013.1), Denon AVR-3808CI, HTD Level 3 5.1
Denon AVR-3300, Denon PMA-700V, Advent Loudspeakers
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Old 01-02-2008, 03:07 PM
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I was wondering why this projector was included in this list when everything I find on it says it is a 720p native projector?

What am I missing?

Mike
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Old 01-02-2008, 04:09 PM
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The Philips 47PFL9732D/37 can do 120hz from 1080p/24 signal.
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Old 01-02-2008, 04:30 PM
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From what I understand, the Optoma HD80 is identical to the Optoma HD8000 with the exception of the ISF modes which are not present on th HD80. This is confirmed in the following review: http://www.ultimateavmag.com/videopr...000/index.html

While the HD8000 is on the list the HD80 is absent. Should the HD80 be added to the list?

Mike
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Old 01-02-2008, 05:46 PM
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is this first post updated as of my post? How come the Samsung LCD 71 and 69 that say 120HZ is not there???
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Old 01-02-2008, 06:42 PM
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The HD81-LV is a much brighter version of the HD81 (with a $4K increase in list price). This review confirms that: http://www.projectorreviews.com/optoma/hd81-lv

Mike
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Old 01-02-2008, 11:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChicagoTC View Post

Please no one use this thread and buy up the remaining Sony KDSs. I need to sell my older Samsung DLP before I can pull the trigger. For sub $2000 the KDS-A603000 is probably the best buy in displays right now.

It has an awesome picture as long as you are within a very narrow viewing angle, especially vertically.
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Old 01-03-2008, 01:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyhigh123 View Post

is this first post updated as of my post? How come the Samsung LCD 71 and 69 that say 120HZ is not there???

We need verification that the pulldown (with AMP off) is truly 5:5 and not 6:4. I'm fairly certain that it is 5:5, but we haven't got definitive proof yet.

My BD-UP5000 should be here soon, and I'll compare the 60Hz and 24Hz output at 1080p. If the difference is noticeable on my 71 (firmware 1013.1), it should be safe to say the 69 and 71 both make the list. However, a first-hand source would be better, such as a Samsung engineer or a professional review (conducted on a 1013.1 or 2004 firmware set).

Samsung BD-UP5000 (1.3), Samsung 4671 (1013.1), Denon AVR-3808CI, HTD Level 3 5.1
Denon AVR-3300, Denon PMA-700V, Advent Loudspeakers
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Old 01-03-2008, 10:00 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raptor007 View Post

We need verification that the pulldown (with AMP off) is truly 5:5 and not 6:4. I'm fairly certain that it is 5:5, but we haven't got definitive proof yet.

My BD-UP5000 should be here soon, and I'll compare the 60Hz and 24Hz output at 1080p. If the difference is noticeable on my 71 (firmware 1013.1), it should be safe to say the 69 and 71 both make the list. However, a first-hand source would be better, such as a Samsung engineer or a professional review (conducted on a 1013.1 or 2004 firmware set).

I agree totally with a professinal review or first hand source. For example this list originally started over at BLU-RAY.com and it took me several months before I would add the Sony rear projectors and flat panel LCD’s that were 120HZ. I waited for a professional review to come out before placing the Sony’s on the list. In fact in the early days of 1080P/24 they were all placed on the list until it was learned that some companies started making low cost 1080P/24 displays that used 3:2 pulldown processes. In the yearly days displays would appear on the list from various companies including some Sony models and then disappear from the list as soon as a professional review showed that it did not correctly refresh 1080P/24 material.
So the Samsungs will appear on the list when and if a professional review proves that they can refresh at multiplies of the original frame. In the past to many displays were going on the list and then going off do to incorrect information.
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Old 01-03-2008, 11:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTV1080P24 View Post

I agree totally with a professinal review or first hand source. For example this list originally started over at BLU-RAY.com and it took me several months before I would add the Sony rear projectors and flat panel LCD's that were 120HZ. I waited for a professional review to come out before placing the Sony's on the list. In fact in the early days of 1080P/24 they were all placed on the list until it was learned that some companies started making low cost 1080P/24 displays that used 3:2 pulldown processes. In the yearly days displays would appear on the list from various companies including some Sony models and then disappear from the list as soon as a professional review showed that it did not correctly refresh 1080P/24 material.
So the Samsungs will appear on the list when and if a professional review proves that they can refresh at multiplies of the original frame. In the past to many displays were going on the list and then going off do to incorrect information.

I understand and agree.

So what about the Optoma HD80 and HD81-LV DLP projectors. I think they meet this threshold.

Mike
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Old 01-03-2008, 04:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigPines View Post

I understand and agree.

So what about the Optoma HD80 and HD81-LV DLP projectors. I think they meet this threshold.

Mike


Currently the Optoma HD8000 and HD81 are on the list since they correctly refresh 1080P/24 material at multiplies of the original frame according to professional reviews that have been posted.
Thanks for posting the review link to the Optoma HD81-LV. The review does not mention how it handles 1080P/24 material but from one of my sources have learned that it uses the exact same method as the HD-81 and refreshes 1080P/24 material at 48HZ. Like you said it is the same as the HD-81 but a brighter version, so I will add it to the list. Thanks for the info.
Now the Optoma HD80 will not be added to the list since it refreshes 1080P/24 material at 60HZ using a 3:2 pulldown process. Here is the source link for the Optoma HD80
http://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.php?p=226674&postcount=191
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Old 01-03-2008, 05:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTV1080P24 View Post


Currently the Optoma HD8000 and HD81 are on the list since they correctly refresh 1080P/24 material at multiplies of the original frame according to professional reviews that have been posted.
Thanks for posting the review link to the Optoma HD81-LV. The review does not mention how it handles 1080P/24 material but from one of my sources have learned that it uses the exact same method as the HD-81 and refreshes 1080P/24 material at 48HZ. Like you said it is the same as the HD-81 but a brighter version, so I will add it to the list. Thanks for the info.
Now the Optoma HD80 will not be added to the list since it refreshes 1080P/24 material at 60HZ using a 3:2 pulldown process. Here is the source link for the Optoma HD80
http://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.php?p=226674&postcount=191

Thanks.

I'll be honest, since the HD80 and HD8000 are the SAME projector (except for the updated firmware in the HD8000 which allows saving of separate ISF modes), I find this difficult to believe. Maybe I will contact Optoma myself to get this straight. It is too bad it is so hard to get good information on this particular issue.

Mike
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Old 01-03-2008, 06:34 PM - Thread Starter
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The Sony SXRD KDS-60A3000, KDS-55A3000, and KDS-50A3000 refresh rates have been updated.

As mentioned before Sony no longer makes rear projectors and once stores run out of them they are gone for good. A professional review by Thomas J Norton was just published recently on the KDS-50A3000 over at UltimateAVmag.com. The 60, 55, and 50 inch Sony’s listed above in blue use the exact same instruction manual and are exactly the same accept for screen size, weight and dimensions. All 3 rear projectors refresh 1080P/24 material at 96HZ by doing a 4:4 pulldown when both motion enhancer and Motion Naturalizer are turned off. 60HZ material is refreshed at 120HZ.

Quote
Motion blur is not as significant an issue on an SXRD (or LCoS) display as it is in many flat panel LCDs, but it is more prevalent than on a DLP or plasma set. As one of the new 120Hz displays, the Sony KDS-50A3000 offers two features designed to minimize motion blur: Motion Enhancer and Motion Naturalizer.”
Sony's literature and manual are both vague in describing what each of these features does. But I scoped out a bit more detail from Sony HQ. With both of them turned off, the set converts a 60 frames per second (fps) source (a 60Hz refresh rate) to 120fps by simply repeating a each frame a second time. For a 24fps source, the set repeats each frame four times to produce 96fps.


Some of the reasons why LCOS (SXRD) is better quality then LCD

Quote
“SXRD and LCoS designs offer a number of advantages over plain LCD. Their panels are much thinner and thus less prone to generating motion lag, even though the light passes through the panel twice. And in LCoS and SXRD all the electronic circuits are located behind the reflective surface, where they don't interfere with the layout of the pixels. In LCD panels the control wires must pass through the spaces between the pixels, which makes for wider gaps and a more obvious screen door effect in the image.
If SXRD and LCoS are superior realizations of LCD technology, why has LCD become dominant? Two reasons. First, reflective technologies like LCoS and SXRD can't be used in flat panel designs. Second, LCoS and SXRD panels are far more complex than basic LCDs. It took years before manufacturers learned to produce them economically, reliably, and in quantity.
As with all SXRD displays, the KDS-50A3000 uses three separate SXRD panels, one each for red, green, and blue. So unlike single-chip DLP designs there is no rotating color wheel to generate rainbow artifacts.”
Link to review
http://ultimateavmag.com/rearprojectiontvs/1207sony3000/index.html
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Old 01-07-2008, 02:20 PM - Thread Starter
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The following Sony LCD flat panels have been added to the list and are scheduled to arrive in Spring or Summer 2008.



Sony KDL-37XBR6
Sony KDL-32XBR6
Sony KDL-52W4100
Sony KDL-46W4100
Sony KDL-40W4100
Sony KDL-46Z4100
Sony KDL-40Z4100



Quote from twice
Among the Bravia LCD TVs Sony is introducing are a 32- and 37-inch models in the high-end XBR 6 series. The KDL-32XBR6 and KDL-37XBR6 will ship this summer at prices to be announced. Both feature 1080p resolution, 120Hz MotionFlow high frame-rate technology, DLNA compliance, DMP connection, 24p input compatibility, a 3D graphic user interface, DMeX ready, and four HDMI inputs, two component video inputs and a PC input. Both are also Bravia Sync (HDMI-CEC) capable.
The Bravia Z4100 series shipping this spring will include models in the 40- and 46-inch screen sizes. Both feature ultra-slim bezels and thin cabinet depths.Both Full HD 1080p resolution, 120Hz MotionFlow frame rates, 24p input, 3D graphic user interface, DMeX capability, and four HDMI inputs, two component video inputs and a PC input. Both are also Bravia Sync (HDMI-CEC) capable.

The three models in W4100 series will ship this spring, and include the 40-, 46- and 52-inch screen sizes. All will have Bravia Engine 2 signal processing, 1080p resolution, 120Hz MotionFlow frame rates, 24p input capability, a 3-D graphic user interface and DMeX capability, as well as and four HDMI inputs, two component video inputs and a PC input. All are also Bravia Sync (HDMI-CEC) capable.
http://www.twice.com/article/CA6516822.html
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Old 01-14-2008, 12:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kjgarrison View Post

Dumb question(s), but those are the kind you learn the most form often: Why does it matter how it "gets there" (from 1080p/24 to 1080p/120) as long as it does and passes the HQV tests? Isn't the 1080p/24 already 2:3 format?

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Originally Posted by HDTV1080P24 View Post

Good question. A 5:5 process where 1080P/24 is frame doubled 5 times will result in less judder and a look that is closer to 70MM and 35mm film. When a 3:2 pulldown process is used 1080P/24 material will experience slight artifacts like judder and the image will not be as smooth. So converting to 60HZ and then converting to120HZ has no benefit since the 3:2 process causes motion artifacts. In fact if the 3:2 pulldown process is better quality in the BLU-RAY/HD-DVD player compared to the 3:2 process in a display then it would be better to set the BLU-RAY/HD-DVD player to 60HZ output if one owns a display that does not refresh 1080P/24 at correct multiplies to match film quality.
1080P/24 output on a player should only be used when one owns a display that refreshes 24fps material at multiplies of the original frame or when one owns a 60HZ display that does a better job of converting 24 fps to 60 fps then what the BLU-RAY/HD-DVD player is capable of doing.
On some 120HZ displays some people like to use a motion enhancer technique to make film material look like super smooth 60HZ video. Those that own the Sony 120HZ displays that want the display to frame multiple 24fps material 5X turn off the motion enhancer feature so they get the look of film.

OK, HDTV1080p24, I have been studying some. Here is my current understanding (from 40,000 feet). Telecine is the process where 2:3 pulldown is performed on a 1080p/24hz film source, where 2 frames (A B) of the original are turned into 5 frames of 1080i/60hz. This is done by both splitting (interlacing) the 2 frames (AA BB), which yields 4 frames, then adding a duplicate of the second frame for a total of 5 frames (AA BBB), thus 2:3 (or more commonly called 3:2). This 2/5 ratio matches 24/60.

I think the purpose of the 2:3 cadence is mostly to get it up to 60hz, but this cadence pattern is also used as a 'signal' which is recognized by capable video processors which reverse the process (called inverse telecine) taking the 5 frames back to the original 2, or the 60hz back to the original 24.

Watching telecined 1080i/60hz video has an artifact called judder because the 1:1 ratio of the first two frames (AB) becomes 2:3 (AABBB). Furthermore, even though the video is interlaced, deinterlacing alone doesn't really change the telecined ratio, and it creates a hybrid half A and half B frame. So 1080p/60hz still will have judder. Doubling to 120hz will also, but less apparent.

If a TV accepts 1080p/24hz (more commonly called 24p) and multiplies by 5 x to get 120hz (for some reason that I find confusing because of the similarity to the completely different 3:2 pulldown, this is generally called 5:5 pulldown) then there will be no telecine judder. Any other method of displaying video that has been telecined from 24p will leave this artifact (judder).

All TVs will of course need to accept telecined video because that is what will come OTA and via satellite, so they do need to be able to inverse telecine, create 24p, and then 3x, 4x, or 5x if they are going to do it best. Otherwise they just start multiplying the telecined 1080ip/60hz video (and adding motion fixes?).

So my original question was actually an uninformed one. It does matter how you get there, because there is only one way to get there and that is through 24p. Either accept 24p input, or take 1080i/60hz input and inverse telecine to reconstruct 24p, and then multiply.

Do I understand this correctly now?

omg, I just re-read your response .... jeez ... you said the same thing only simpler
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Old 01-14-2008, 09:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for going into more details. The 1080P/24 process can get confusing sometimes.
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Old 01-15-2008, 02:53 PM - Thread Starter
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The following NuVision 1080P LCD displays might be added to the list after further verification



NuVision NVU65HDN 1080P 65"


NuVision NVU52DCM 1080P 52"

NuVision NVU47DCM 1080P 47"
NuVision NVU42DCM 1080P 42"
NuVision NVU37L 1080P 37"
NuVision 47LCM3 1080P 47"
NuVision 42LCM3 1080P 42"
NuVision NVX37HDU2 1080P 37"






The above displays need further verification before being added to the list. Sent an email to NuVision and waiting for a reply.

http://nuvision.com/tv/

The Nuvision 52LEDLP rear projector has been verified by Perfect Vision magazine to refresh at 72HZ for 1080P/24 material

Quote

I was thrilled to learn that the 52LEDLP can accept 1080p/24 from Blu-ray and HD DVD players and display the signal at 72Hz, repeating each frame three times. This completely eliminates any jerkiness in movie playback that arises from converting 1080p/24 on the disc to 1080p/60 for most video displays.”

http://www.avguide.com/the-perfect-vision/78/nuvision.php
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