whos not buying the bdup5000 cause it wont decode DTS-HD and multichannel trueHD - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 146 Old 12-04-2007, 08:12 AM - Thread Starter
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well i have this player on preorder through 2 different companies but i am thinking about canceling because in the owners manual it show that it will not decode dts-HD and will only do dolby trueHD over 2 channels. that was the one reason i wanted this player for the advance high definition audio. the only thing that is keeping me for canceling is the hope for a firmware to fix this HUGE problem. is anybody else not going to buy this unit because of this problem?
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post #2 of 146 Old 12-04-2007, 08:17 AM
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I believe the sammy will decode both internally (eventually). if not, i won't be buying. don't fret yet! the answers are near.
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post #3 of 146 Old 12-04-2007, 08:24 AM
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I pre-ordered mine via Amazon.com mostly for this reason... it'll get here a month after the first batch of players is in customer's hands, and there's been a chance for a firmware update... if internal decoding and output of LPCM isn't updated/enabled by mid-January, then I can simple cancel my pre-order.

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post #4 of 146 Old 12-04-2007, 09:08 AM
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It is the deciding factor in my case. I have an hd dvd player now and want a dual format player. I will not buy one that does not pass the new audio formats via hdmi to my onkyo tx-sr805.

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post #5 of 146 Old 12-04-2007, 09:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paulfromtulsa View Post

is anybody else not going to buy this unit because of this problem?

I won't be buying if it doesn't decode multi-channel TrueHD. Simple as that.
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post #6 of 146 Old 12-04-2007, 09:40 AM
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Great question. I am primarily an audiophile, but want more High-Def content and don't want to uprgade my hdmi 1.2 receiver. I was really wanting this player and watching these threads closely until the owners manual stated the 5000 would be limited to 2ch dolby trueHD. When I read that, I bailed and came up with a surprising plan-B. I decided to get my high def fix by adding HD premium movie packages to my satellite account and also adding an external hard-drive to my satellite DVR. While the HD feed is probably not as stunning as I'd get with HD-DVD/BluRay, my TV de-interlaces really well, so quality is really good. I am satisfied for now to be getting lots of movies in HD. Many are as yet unavailable on disk. I record and then archive them to the external hard-disk. This has been surprisingly convenient. Now I feel content to wait for dual-formats to mature awhile. I like my Oppo 981 so well, I might sit out on a player until Oppo moves into the High Def fold.
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post #7 of 146 Old 12-04-2007, 09:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g_bartman View Post

It is the deciding factor in my case. I have an hd dvd player now and want a dual format player. I will not buy one that does not pass the new audio formats via hdmi to my onkyo tx-sr805.

Correct me if I'm wrong...but, I think the complaint is that people don't think the player will do it over ANALOG. I'm pretty sure that it will pass the correct audio digitally via HDMI to the Onkyo. Otherwise, it would be an outdated piece of junk out of the box.
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post #8 of 146 Old 12-04-2007, 09:53 AM
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It would be ludicrous for Samsung to opt for the most advanced SoC infrastructure and then choose not to provide features that are there to advertise to the consumer. If they didn't want to be different(better) they could've saved money by opting for separate standalone infrastructure for BD and HDDVD and selecting Faroudja(or lesser) scaling for SD.

Remember there has to be some material difference between the UP5K and the BH200 and if it doesn't provide internal decoding, it only has the Reon scaling solution to fall back on and that's not a differentiable point for HDM.

Can you really imagine marketing sitting around saying "Let's put out a dual format player that does less and charge more just to frustrate the customers!" This could work in a monopoly(see BH100), but not now that there's competing products.

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post #9 of 146 Old 12-04-2007, 10:50 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QuentinH View Post

Correct me if I'm wrong...but, I think the complaint is that people don't think the player will do it over ANALOG. I'm pretty sure that it will pass the correct audio digitally via HDMI to the Onkyo. Otherwise, it would be an outdated piece of junk out of the box.

as of now the owners manual shows that it will not decode dts-hd via bitstream and it will only play dolby trueHD over the front right and left speaker via bitstream.
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post #10 of 146 Old 12-04-2007, 10:59 AM
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Wrong, those limitations are on the analog outputs (which, I agree, is beyond stupid). This player will bitstream all of the codecs in full glory.
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post #11 of 146 Old 12-04-2007, 11:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QuentinH View Post

Correct me if I'm wrong...but, I think the complaint is that people don't think the player will do it over ANALOG. I'm pretty sure that it will pass the correct audio digitally via HDMI to the Onkyo. Otherwise, it would be an outdated piece of junk out of the box.

thats how i understand it, and seeing as my onkyo 905 can handle the HD audio formats i don't have to worry about the 5000's onboard limitations since ill be using passthru via hdmi. now if my receiver couldn't decode HD audio i'd skip this player.

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post #12 of 146 Old 12-04-2007, 11:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rynberg View Post

Wrong, those limitations are on the analog outputs (which, I agree, is beyond stupid). This player will bitstream all of the codecs in full glory.

Herein lies all of the confusion about this product.

The MANUAL does NOT (yet) have the DTS-HD Advanced Digital Out logo, it only has the DTS Digital Surround logo. In fact, the linked pdf at the bottom of the post does not have the DTS-HD ADO logo, just the Digital Surround logo. That is the scary part. It does say MA (with firmware update).

The other scary part is that the manual says TrueHD on 2 channel only.



http://www.samsung.com/us/system/con.../BD-UP5000.pdf

Samsung needs to clarify. If they are planning on releasing it without these functions, I would have to ask Samsung why?

I am not buying a dual format player with the DTS Digital Surround logo. It has to have the Advanced Audio Out capabilities, or dts-MA out through the analogs. TrueHD needs to be 5.1 minimum, not 2.0.

I want this player, but as of right now there is no pre-order for me. Luckily, I have until mid-January to decide. I will be getting a new receiver and a BD player at that time. I have an A2 right now, but once i get a new receiver I would like a DF player.

Waiting for my 2012 upgrade...
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post #13 of 146 Old 12-04-2007, 11:57 AM
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The last line of text in this page of the Manual suggests it's only stereo when decoding TrueHD:



source: Page 10 of the BD-UP5000 Manual: http://downloadcenter.samsung.com/co...AA-BM_1119.pdf

Somebody should contact Samsung about this... it must be an error..


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post #14 of 146 Old 12-04-2007, 11:59 AM - Thread Starter
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so am i right about it only doing dolby trueHD over 2 channnels via bitstream? and about it not decoding dts-HD via bitstream?
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post #15 of 146 Old 12-04-2007, 12:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paulfromtulsa View Post

so am i right about it only doing dolby trueHD over 2 channnels via bitstream? and about it not decoding dts-HD via bitstream?

We don't know. It may be referring to analog speakers out.

Somebody needs to contact Samsung.


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post #16 of 146 Old 12-04-2007, 02:02 PM
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Well, I'm also worried about the quality of the unit, so I can't say sound codecs are the only reason I'm leery of this unit.

However, no TrueHD and no DTS-HD is a death to this product. I have been enjoying TrueHD already on my Tosh A1 over analog. I won't downgrade to 448 kbps DD+ as an alternative. I know DTS-MA isn't on any player, but no DTS-HD? That's just nuts.

If Samsung thinks that audio doesn't matter on a high-cost machine, they are very wrong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FrancescoP View Post

We don't know. It may be referring to analog speakers out.

Somebody needs to contact Samsung.

Decoding is decoding. If they can decode for PCM, they can decode for analog. I don't think there would be a difference in features between the two.
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post #17 of 146 Old 12-04-2007, 02:37 PM - Thread Starter
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i just got off of samsung website and it shows that this unit can decode dts-hd there is a link below

http://www.samsung.com/us/consumer/d...XAA&fullspec=F
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post #18 of 146 Old 12-04-2007, 02:56 PM
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The one thing that leads me to believe that it can do multichannel TrueHD, is the fact that the BD 1400 had the same wording in its manual about only two channels and it does multichannel TrueHD (there may have been a firmware upgrade involved). Plus, it would be infinitely stupid to have this limitation on your flagship player while you have previously released lower-end models which have the capability. All of this points to it being an oversight or a misinterpretation of what that line in the manual is referring to.
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post #19 of 146 Old 12-04-2007, 03:04 PM
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I'm holding out as I got an XA2 at black Friday pricing from Amazon (I already had a PS3/A20 combo). I had planned on getting the BDP-U5000 but I'm going to wait for now...
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post #20 of 146 Old 12-04-2007, 03:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audioNeil View Post

I know DTS-MA isn't on any player, but no DTS-HD? That's just nuts.

I don't think DTS-HD in any form (including DTS-MA) is decoded yet by any player of either format.
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post #21 of 146 Old 12-04-2007, 04:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paulfromtulsa View Post

i just got off of samsung website and it shows that this unit can decode dts-hd there is a link below

http://www.samsung.com/us/consumer/d...XAA&fullspec=F

Yeah, but, is it dts-ma and also not just 2-channel TruHD?? It seems to be some tricky wording there to cover all the bases but not necessarily commit to the full spec. Hope not...
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post #22 of 146 Old 12-04-2007, 04:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Madden View Post

I won't be buying if it doesn't decode multi-channel TrueHD. Simple as that.

+1

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post #23 of 146 Old 12-04-2007, 05:06 PM
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well this bites for me because i dont have a hdmi reciever and i dont plan on replacing my onkyo setup for a while.

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post #24 of 146 Old 12-05-2007, 03:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paulfromtulsa View Post

well i have this player on preorder through 2 different companies but i am thinking about canceling because in the owners manual it show that it will not decode dts-HD and will only do dolby trueHD over 2 channels. that was the one reason i wanted this player for the advance high definition audio. the only thing that is keeping me for canceling is the hope for a firmware to fix this HUGE problem. is anybody else not going to buy this unit because of this problem?

Bottom line, no one really knows what the player will do.

I doubt a firmware fix (if it happens at all) would happen within a month.

My perspective is I'd rather wait and get a player that does what I need it to do, than get one that doesn't and hope that Samsung will add a feature that they're not obligated to furnish. If you think about it, there's a good argument for Samsung to hold back this feature until the next generation so that there would be a compelling reason for first generation owners to upgrade. They are in it for the money, you know.

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post #25 of 146 Old 12-05-2007, 05:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David B View Post

Great question. I am primarily an audiophile, but want more High-Def content and don't want to uprgade my hdmi 1.2 receiver. I was really wanting this player and watching these threads closely until the owners manual stated the 5000 would be limited to 2ch dolby trueHD. When I read that, I bailed and came up with a surprising plan-B. I decided to get my high def fix by adding HD premium movie packages to my satellite account and also adding an external hard-drive to my satellite DVR. While the HD feed is probably not as stunning as I'd get with HD-DVD/BluRay, my TV de-interlaces really well, so quality is really good. I am satisfied for now to be getting lots of movies in HD. Many are as yet unavailable on disk. I record and then archive them to the external hard-disk. This has been surprisingly convenient. Now I feel content to wait for dual-formats to mature awhile. I like my Oppo 981 so well, I might sit out on a player until Oppo moves into the High Def fold.

Well the audio for your satellite HD is probably a very compressed dd5.1, so, that audio part at least is probably not as good as standard dvd even. I have the same setup with Cable (Cox SA HDDVR w/500GB ex drive) and I do enjoy it, but, looking forward to even better. Also, while the video quality is very good on Cable HD, I'm experiencing pixelization in many of the movies - no doubt from even more compression...
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post #26 of 146 Old 12-05-2007, 05:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David B View Post

...snip...

I bailed and came up with a surprising plan-B. I decided to get my high def fix by adding HD premium movie packages to my satellite account and also adding an external hard-drive to my satellite DVR. While the HD feed is probably not as stunning as I'd get with HD-DVD/BluRay, my TV de-interlaces really well, so quality is really good. I am satisfied for now to be getting lots of movies in HD. Many are as yet unavailable on disk. I record and then archive them to the external hard-disk. ....

I think you have a good plan.

I might be done buying movies at $30 a pop to watch only once. Wonder how many others are thinking the same.

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post #27 of 146 Old 12-05-2007, 05:31 AM
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My next player absolutely will have to be able to decode DTS HD MA and 5.1 TrueHD on the 5.1 analog outputs. It'll take a significant upgrade on the DACs as well since I already have a (non DTS HD MA-capable) dual format player. It just might save me the financial hit of a new HDMI-capable preamp/processor.

Any new player without at least the ability to bitstream DTS HD MA and TrueHD over HDMI should be non-player in anyone's book. I'd be surprised if the Samsung doesn't at least do this much.

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post #28 of 146 Old 12-05-2007, 06:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David B View Post

Great question. I am primarily an audiophile, but want more High-Def content and don't want to uprgade my hdmi 1.2 receiver. I was really wanting this player and watching these threads closely until the owners manual stated the 5000 would be limited to 2ch dolby trueHD. When I read that, I bailed and came up with a surprising plan-B. I decided to get my high def fix by adding HD premium movie packages to my satellite account and also adding an external hard-drive to my satellite DVR. While the HD feed is probably not as stunning as I'd get with HD-DVD/BluRay, my TV de-interlaces really well, so quality is really good. I am satisfied for now to be getting lots of movies in HD. Many are as yet unavailable on disk. I record and then archive them to the external hard-disk. This has been surprisingly convenient. Now I feel content to wait for dual-formats to mature awhile. I like my Oppo 981 so well, I might sit out on a player until Oppo moves into the High Def fold.


So you comment that you are an audiophile but are gonna hold out and just watch HD movies on satellite. Yes, some of the HD movies on cable/satellite are pretty decent but the sound is HUGELY lacking compared to HD-DVD and BD.

I watched some of Lord of the Rings on TNT HD a while back and yes it looked better than my DVD but even though the sound was 5.1 it was HORRID!!! I'd much rather watch a standard DVD of a film with a decent soundtrack than cable, let alone HD-DVD or BD.

Being an audiophile myself, I'd give up the HD picture quality for Dolby TrueHD and the likes any day of the week. I've gotten so used to killer sound on HD-DVD and BD that I don't really watch anything on HBO HD or Showtime HD. Not sure why I'm even paying for it.

As cheap as HD-DVD players are I don't see why anyone who can afford $200 or less doesn't buy one. No you can't watch every movie that comes out but at least you get some.

Just something to think about...
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post #29 of 146 Old 12-05-2007, 10:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oscar_in_fw View Post

Any new player without at least the ability to bitstream DTS HD MA and TrueHD over HDMI should be non-player in anyone's book. I'd be surprised if the Samsung doesn't at least do this much.

As someone pointed out in the 'other' 5000 thread, why won't/couldn't it?? These are LOSSLESS codecs. All the player has to do is unzip the file and pass it through digitally. My Onkyo will do the rest.
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post #30 of 146 Old 12-05-2007, 11:04 AM
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If this unit is like my BD10AK, it will only pass TrueHD
through OPTICAL as two channel, because that is the
limitation of the connection.

It passes multichannel decoded via HDMI and analog.

But the statement in the BD10AK's manual about TrueHD
only being passed as 2 channel stereo caught me off
guard too. But this was as optical.

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