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post #1 of 27 Old 12-11-2007, 08:04 AM - Thread Starter
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Anyone feel guilty about supporting both formats? We of the purple clan are supposedly helping prolong this format war. I wasn't around for VHS vs Beta but surely the price drops have occured much earlier now compared to back then...

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post #2 of 27 Old 12-11-2007, 08:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EWL5 View Post

Anyone feel guilty about supporting both formats? We of the purple clan are supposedly helping prolong this format war. I wasn't around for VHS vs Beta but surely the price drops have occured much earlier now compared to back then...

I could care less about formats. I love movies. The way I see it, supporting dual format players is the best way to defuse the war before it can destroy both formats and stick us with DVD for several more years.

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post #3 of 27 Old 12-11-2007, 08:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by DasRaven View Post

I could care less about formats. I love movies. The way I see it, supporting dual format players is the best way to defuse the war before it can destroy both formats and stick us with DVD for several more years.

I became format neutral for the same love of movies. However, I don't think DVD can slowly go away if the war is prolonged. It's painfully obvious that most of the world (let alone America) is quite comfortable with DVD.

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post #4 of 27 Old 12-11-2007, 09:03 AM
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Why feel guilty about having the best of both HDM worlds? The war to me, right now, is irrelevant. I buy whatever titles I want to buy, the color of the case notwithstanding.

And if and when one side emerges victorious, the would-be "obsolete" discs from the losing team are going to continue to play as long as I own them. So where's the guilt?

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post #5 of 27 Old 12-11-2007, 09:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EWL5 View Post

Anyone feel guilty about supporting both formats?

Not in the least. The CE's stuck us with two incompatible formats with exclusive content on both. It's not my job to help decide a format war. If the two formats remain niche, then they were doomed the minute the red and blue camps walked away from the bargaining table.
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post #6 of 27 Old 12-11-2007, 09:14 AM
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Why should i feel guilty?

Those you accuse the "purple" of being a reason for prolonging this war usually just want to promote their own agenda. I think we are way past the point, that any format could "outsell" the other simply by the consumer's vote. If nothing changes, both a likely to stick around for quite some time.

The way i see it, HDM is one market segment, trying to get a foothold in the big home video market. So buying red/blu doesn´t really matter, because you are showing that there is demand for HDM as a concept. The more people are buying any format, the bigger this piece of the cake gets (marketshare of HDM in home video).

If a decision about "one" format comes in the near or distant future, it will be made by the studios imo. So far they are evaluating, if the HDM market has potential for growth. Let´s make the cake bigger....

dooooooooooooooooooooooomed!
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post #7 of 27 Old 12-11-2007, 09:41 AM
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No guilt - Once Samsung's combo player comes out, and is installed in my Home Theater, I'll leave it up to the hardware & software manufacturer's to decide.

I won't care.

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post #8 of 27 Old 12-11-2007, 12:17 PM
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Not only no, but HELL NO.

Those who incessantly drone on and on about "there can be only one" and "by owning both you're contributing to the death of both formats" have a zealotry-driven agenda. They all make the erroneous assumption that *THEIR* chosen format is the one to ultimately prevail, therefore it's the obvious choice.

Meanwhile, they're missing what the opposing format has to offer for years on end... dain bramaged if you ask me...

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post #9 of 27 Old 12-11-2007, 12:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EWL5 View Post

Anyone feel guilty about supporting both formats?

haha. NO.
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post #10 of 27 Old 12-11-2007, 12:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok guys. Just wanted to see how everyone felt. That last Michael Bay comment does have me thinking though. I would not put it beneath Microsoft to sneak behind the HD formats with another alternative, HD movie downloads. Microsoft already has my PC and now they want my home theater too!

Pioneer broke my heart.
Denon broke my wallet.
Oppo broke my thinking.
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post #11 of 27 Old 12-11-2007, 02:03 PM
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Movie downloads for HD? Better have a fat pipe and a big storage solution. I have 124 Blu and Red titles now. If they are an average of 15 gig per title I would need a couple of terabytes just to store a few movies. Not likely. I have over three terabytes in my Tivo units. And they are only for time shifting not archiving.

Jerry the HT Nut
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post #12 of 27 Old 12-11-2007, 02:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EWL5 View Post

Ok guys. Just wanted to see how everyone felt. That last Michael Bay comment does have me thinking though. I would not put it beneath Microsoft to sneak behind the HD formats with another alternative, HD movie downloads. Microsoft already has my PC and now they want my home theater too!

Microsoft already sells plenty of things I don't want, those don't keep me up at night either.
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post #13 of 27 Old 12-11-2007, 02:30 PM
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Microsoft doesnt own my PC, apple does !!!

I have no guilt, i do what i want in this HD movie world which is enjoy both equally with no guilt.

Athanasios
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post #14 of 27 Old 12-11-2007, 03:05 PM
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No, no guilt here. While I disagree with the politics of one side a bit more than the other, I just want to enjoy movies. Neither is going anywhere, even if the one neutral studio were to jump to one side or another. Anyone who wants to wait it out is losing enjoyment of movies now. Despite what Bill Hunt (and others) say, the format war has been good for the consumer in some respects. We have lower prices on hardware AND software thanks to the "war." Does anyone realize how rare it is to see $999 players drop to sub-$300 levels in less than 2 years after release of the product? If there had been only one side from the beginning, we'd all be paying (or not, as your wallet allowed) $1000 for players and $40 for media. Let the companies duke it out. I'm watching great movies in high-def, no matter what color box they come in.
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post #15 of 27 Old 12-11-2007, 03:10 PM
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exactly, what the Viking said
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post #16 of 27 Old 12-11-2007, 08:16 PM
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Mega Dittos -

Not only HDM but HDM Disc Media.

If anything Purple People are helping entrench
disc media (in the face of downloaded, nobody
owns anything media).

dxr

Quote:
Originally Posted by No_U-Turn View Post

Why should i feel guilty?

Those you accuse the "purple" of being a reason for prolonging this war usually just want to promote their own agenda. I think we are way past the point, that any format could "outsell" the other simply by the consumer's vote. If nothing changes, both a likely to stick around for quite some time.

The way i see it, HDM is one market segment, trying to get a foothold in the big home video market. So buying red/blu doesn´t really matter, because you are showing that there is demand for HDM as a concept. The more people are buying any format, the bigger this piece of the cake gets (marketshare of HDM in home video).

If a decision about "one" format comes in the near or distant future, it will be made by the studios imo. So far they are evaluating, if the HDM market has potential for growth. Let´s make the cake bigger....


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post #17 of 27 Old 12-12-2007, 10:09 AM
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I'm red only right now, but would love to be purple! I'm just waiting for the right deal to come along. There's no way I want my HD w/o media. If you don't have media, you'll have no rights as all (like we have a lot right now )

Bottom line is that competition drives down prices, and I'd still be DVD only if prices hadn't dropped so fast...

/posted on my crackberry!
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post #18 of 27 Old 12-12-2007, 11:14 AM
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I started off Red (A1) and added some expensive blu (Bd10). Played some games (PS3) and was wooed by the slick 2nd gen red (Xa2) with upscaling to boot.

I'd like to be purple but the it has been difficult adding the right kind of blu.

Xa2 has done everything it's been asked to do (for that matter so can the a1 minus the 1080p part). My only interest might be in having more storage and wifi to make better use of the web-enabled features. That way it is not a chore to free up space all of the time and the trailers can be in HD like you can download on your pc, x360 (720p) and ps3 (up to 1080p).

DTS-HD MA has been the Achilles Heel. Adding bitstream meant a new receiver and a new player (at this time) and there is the uncertainty of BD profiles going forward that make me cautious. Sadly, its not as if you get no sound with the DTS core, but you just don't get that full-featured appreciation. Try FF:RoSS for the scene over China!

Right now the xa2 and bd30 are slim enough that they only take up one shelf space which works fine, but this requires the updated amp and some settings gymnastics to switch between audio formats for extras. (If I have to switch back to in-player processing for Dolby TrueHD to watch HME, what is the benefit of passing the bitstream?). It is nice to have dts-hd ma, but if you want to play some secondary audio you downmix the feature soundtrack. Extras aren't the be-all-and-end-all for me, but if you wanted to watch IME for a cool action scene that you just watched, or here director's commentary it is not a seamless transition to pop-out watch the extra and get back to watching the movie. You have to be prepared to watch the whole movie in the 'enhanced mode.'

Would a universal Sammy solve the problem? Perhaps if everything is decoded and mixed internally for output over analog or HDMI multichannel, and had a workable upgrade path to keep profiles current. All of this with only one rack space would be nice. However, by the time anyone gets a hand on one of these to answer any questions we may be only a couple of weeks away from CES and the "next round" with even more announcements.

After uprgrading players, and receivers would this be money out the window if PS3 added decoded DTS-HD MA for output through HDMI? I've read so much on this ability/lack of ability that I'm not sure if it is possible only bitstream or passed decoded, but if it had the capability today it would be a lot easier to put this to bed for a while.

So, in the meantime the red side has been a steady performer (Miami Vice and Hollywoodland we will leave out) it has been difficult to 'settle in' with just how much blue and what shade.

Oh, to be blissfully unaware!

Maybe I should start Day Trading to relax a little.

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post #19 of 27 Old 12-12-2007, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EWL5 View Post

We of the purple clan are supposedly helping prolong this format war.

I don't care. If the studios won't give me what I want to watch in the format I want, then my only option was to go neutral. This war is going to be around for quite some time anyway.

XA2 + PS3 = Priceless
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post #20 of 27 Old 12-12-2007, 12:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Who was old enough to remember VHS vs Beta and how long did it take for players to drop to become "affordable"?

Pioneer broke my heart.
Denon broke my wallet.
Oppo broke my thinking.
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post #21 of 27 Old 12-12-2007, 08:17 PM
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I remember the first blank VHS tape I purchased was $17.00
and the rig to record it on was $2000. My first stand alone deck was
$550. And I was not right out of the chute either. Many earlier
adopters. I think I came in at 1984. $550 in 1982 dollars would buy
the equivalent of $1175 of today's money.

dxr


Quote:
Originally Posted by EWL5 View Post

Who was old enough to remember VHS vs Beta and how long did it take for players to drop to become "affordable"?


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post #22 of 27 Old 12-12-2007, 08:37 PM
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If there were only one format, then player prices would be higher now.

We wouldn't have had a $98 Toshiba deal.
The PS3 likely wouldn't be priced at $350.
There would be no BOGOs for movies.

Competition is something that has HELPED prices come down. Yes, it has caused some confusion and delayed adoption somewhat, but the people who are truly interested in HD are not going to be fence-sitters for long once dual-format players come out.

Those pushing the "there can be only one" are indeed agenda-based. I was banned from another popular site recently for having the nerve to post a message about the new Samsung dual-format player. There are some in the industry who work for companies on one side of the format, and it is monetarily adventageous for their format to "win." They use their influence on different sites to convince others of their warpedly semi-religious pro-their-format HD evangelist doctrine, and some lap it up. They repeat the mantra, and go forth to other websites like HD missionaries bent on preaching their "one format" philosophy.

I'm talking about both sides here. Not just one format.

Stores don't care which one wins. They don't care if they have an HD-DVD player or a BR player on the shelf. They're not running out of shelf space and desperately waiting for this format war to end. These same stores sell 6+ different models of receivers, by gosh! Heck, sell one less receiver (which moves even fewer units than a new HD player) and make room for both HD formats. Do you see the stupidity of this argument?

Likewise, what does a store care if the box is colored red or blue? They care what sells, and if both are selling enough, they'll keep both.

I want dual format players, because neither "side" is going to be backing down and offering all of their movies in the other guy's format. Even if Warner would go exclusive one way or another, you'll still need HD-DVD to play Universal movies, and a Blu-ray player to play Sony movies.

Competition is good for the consumer.

There is a push to convince people that they NEED just one format to succeed, or HDM will die. No, HDM would never have gotten this far by this point without competition. The ones who stand to benefit the most from one format are the ones who are making residuals off of movie formatting and player liscensing. That is what is truly behind this desperate "one format" desire: CORPORATE MONEY INTERESTS.

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post #23 of 27 Old 12-12-2007, 09:01 PM
 
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I found agreement in much of what you said!
Quote:
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The PS3 likely wouldn't be priced at $350.

Say what? That would imply a 50% cost reduction for a console in a little over a year...UNheard of. I'm just curious whose selling them at this price.
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post #24 of 27 Old 12-12-2007, 09:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EWL5 View Post

Who was old enough to remember VHS vs Beta and how long did it take for players to drop to become "affordable"?

Bought my first Zenith Beta machine for $1000 in 1981. You had to manually push down the cassette compartment and it had a wired remote control. It did do forward slow motion and freeze, however. L-750 blank tapes for 3 Hrs(at BII) or 4.5 hrs (at BIII) were $24.95. Most pre-recorded movies were routinely released at $79.95
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post #25 of 27 Old 12-12-2007, 09:21 PM
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Nope, no guilt at all. I just don't get all the whining about why this or that title isn't avail in the format the fanboy's want. I'm glad to watch what I want when I want.
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post #26 of 27 Old 12-13-2007, 11:45 AM
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I gotta say that anyone who feels guilty about any CE purchase has got some major issues that need dealt with...
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post #27 of 27 Old 12-13-2007, 01:36 PM
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seriously
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