BD-UP5000 Universal Player Samsung [OFFICIAL OWNERS THREAD] & FAQ - Page 13 - AVS Forum
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post #361 of 13681 Old 12-16-2007, 02:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SileasResearch View Post

1) Did anyone see this crawling grey dot issue on the LG BH200 (same Broadcom chip) before any firmware updates (if there were any)?
2) Anyone see this on any other Samsung player with or without the HQV stuff?
3) Is this the weird problem people saw with the first Bluray players that made them look soft?

Bump.... Can someone else go research this stuff and confirm one way or another, please? I want to do something else other than this research this problem today as I have been doing almost nothing else this weekend but evaluating the 5000...

1400 owners?

Thanks!

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post #362 of 13681 Old 12-16-2007, 02:49 PM
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To answer an earlier question, there is no current player that internally decodes DTS HDMA. The upcoming Denon is the first and of course this one was rumored to.

As I posted earlier, so far this player will NOT do anything with a THD track besides play in 2 channels only.

Analog = 2ch
HDMI set to bitstream = 2ch
HDMI set to PCM = 2 ch

I am going to try THD again tomorrow, because not 1 time in my THD testing did the receiver "Dolby THD" icon light up

I am going to experiment more tomorrow with DTS HDMA bitstream, for tonight I am going to check into the video and analog outs.
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post #363 of 13681 Old 12-16-2007, 02:51 PM
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Well, I went through all of this with the Onkyo 885/Integra 9.8 pre/pro. The first few people to receive them identified several problems with the units (they are the 99% the same). Everybody was up in arms. How could Onkyo do this to consumers? How could they release a cutting edge piece of equipment with problems for cryin' out loud? A number of people canceled their pre-orders then too. Within a month Onkyo released a firmware fix and all subsequent units were shipped with the firmware fix installed.

For the record I own the Onkyo. Is it perfect? No. It has a few nagging issues I wish it didn't have but then again, I've never bought a perfect piece of mass market equipment nor have I ever bought perfect fitting cloth's off of a rack.

Now, having said all of that, what worries me is that Samsung is not Onkyo. I have a certain cynicism about Korean products based on reports about the way they do business.

In closing the guy in the Amps forum and the guys here are of a tremendous service to the rest of us and I thank you. I'm just suggesting that we try not to be so reactionary.

Sometimes, the blind date has a pimple or two. I think eurotrance gave the best advice ever. Try it. If you don't like it send it back.
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post #364 of 13681 Old 12-16-2007, 02:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHDMan View Post

You have got to be kidding!...This player is absolute JUNK. I am a dealer and I can tell you I have played with quite a few of them and the 1400 unit is junk. If you want a good player get the Panny.

Since you are a dealer and have 1400's, can you go evaluate the crawling grey dots issue and see if you see it on those players?

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post #365 of 13681 Old 12-16-2007, 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Woodshed View Post

To answer an earlier question, there is no current player that internally decodes DTS HDMA. The upcoming Denon is the first and of course this one was rumored to.

As I posted earlier, so far this player will NOT do anything with a THD track besides play in 2 channels only.

Analog = 2ch
HDMI set to bitstream = 2ch
HDMI set to PCM = 2 ch

I am going to try THD again tomorrow, because not 1 time in my THD testing did the receiver "Dolby THD" icon light up

I am going to experiment more tomorrow with DTS HDMA bitstream, for tonight I am going to check into the video and analog outs.

Just not to confuse matters here, when you choose a PCM (lossless)5.1-7.1 track (also DD+), everything is working fine, right. The impression may be that none of the best formats are available, which I don't think is the case, just TrueHD and DTS-MA.
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post #366 of 13681 Old 12-16-2007, 03:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haggisbingo View Post

Just not to confuse matters here, when you choose a PCM (lossless)5.1-7.1 track (also DD+), everything is working fine, right. The impression may be that none of the best formats are available, which I don't think is the case, just TrueHD and DTS-MA.

Yes choosing the PCM track on 300 went fine, analog and over HDMI. Full 5.1 sound.
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post #367 of 13681 Old 12-16-2007, 03:02 PM
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Originally Posted by TheHDMan View Post

I stopped dealing them because I don't believe in selling a product that doesn't work the way it's supposed to.

just wondering what about the 1400 you have such issue with. I had it bitstreaming to my Onkyo 875. Sound and picture were incredible. For a player selling for under $300, I thought it was pretty impressive. I returned it because I knew the 5000 was coming.
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post #368 of 13681 Old 12-16-2007, 03:10 PM
 
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Originally Posted by word302 View Post

just wondering what about the 1400 you have such issue with. I had it bitstreaming to my Onkyo 875. Sound and picture were incredible. For a player selling for under $300, I thought it was pretty impressive. I returned it because I knew the 5000 was coming.


Java playability sucks...and there are other audio issues as well...You can read about all the problems in the 1400 thread. The unit should play the way the Panny does. (It doesn't).
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post #369 of 13681 Old 12-16-2007, 03:13 PM
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I'm going to try to nip this is the bud...

Talk about the quality of the 1400 is off-topic, unless it is something specific with regard to firmware fixes to fix similar problems we are seeing on the 5000. This is the BD-UP5000 owners' thread.

Thanks

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post #370 of 13681 Old 12-16-2007, 03:21 PM
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I hope to answer part of this question myself tomorrow when I get my 5000, but I wanted to ask it for discussion sake. Has anyone tried THD on both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray? Since it seems much of the codebase is split between the two the capabilities may not be the same. Same question for DTS-HD, although there doesn't seem to be a single HD-DVD with DTS-HD yet.
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post #371 of 13681 Old 12-16-2007, 03:24 PM
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Pardon the uninformed question, but I am confused by the discussion on this board of some of the different audio formats, bitstreaming, etc.

I would be connecting the Samsung player via HDMI to a Denon 3808ci receiver, which has onboard decoding for numerous audio formats. For that setup, is all of this talk of what formats the BD-UP5000 can or cannot decode or pass through analog cables relevant?

Thanks.
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post #372 of 13681 Old 12-16-2007, 03:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SileasResearch View Post

I'm going to try to nip this is the bud...

Talk about the quality of the 1400 is off-topic, unless it is something specific with regard to firmware fixes to fix similar problems we are seeing on the 5000. This is the BD-UP5000 owners' thread.

Thanks

SileasResearch

Do you know if the hardware in the 1400 and 5000 are similar?

In other words, does the 5000 have the potential to have the same picture improvement with a FW fix that the 1400 did?

If this is the case, it seems Samsung should be able to fix it easily, and therefore quickly. (insert optimistic emoticon)
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post #373 of 13681 Old 12-16-2007, 03:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndover View Post

Pardon the uninformed question, but I am confused by the discussion on this board of some of the different audio formats, bitstreaming, etc.

I would be connecting the Samsung player via HDMI to a Denon 3808ci receiver, which has onboard decoding for numerous audio formats. For that setup, is all of this talk of what formats the BD-UP5000 can or cannot decode or pass through analog cables relevant?

Thanks.

Yes, apparently so. It appears that the 5000 *cannot* pass an undecoded TrueHD track for decoding by a receiver. YES! You read that right!
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post #374 of 13681 Old 12-16-2007, 03:42 PM
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Originally Posted by tai4de2 View Post

Yes, apparently so. It appears that the 5000 *cannot* pass an undecoded TrueHD track for decoding by a receiver. YES! You read that right!

Sure it can, it's just two channels (as was rumored from the manual). Since the 1400 had the same issue and was fixed, I wouldn't get too bent about it.

Also, the same couple people spamming this thread bashing the 5000 and the 1400 (which is off-topic anyways) is getting pretty old. How about either contributing new information or staying out of it?
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post #375 of 13681 Old 12-16-2007, 03:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoyty View Post

I hope to answer part of this question myself tomorrow when I get my 5000, but I wanted to ask it for discussion sake. Has anyone tried THD on both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray? Since it seems much of the codebase is split between the two the capabilities may not be the same. Same question for DTS-HD, although there doesn't seem to be a single HD-DVD with DTS-HD yet.

I do own foreign HD DVDs with DTS HD MA, problem is how do I know for sure I'm hearing MA and not just the core out of my analog outs ?

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post #376 of 13681 Old 12-16-2007, 03:45 PM
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Originally Posted by audiomixer View Post

Does the Panasonic decode all of the audio codecs through bitstream?

It passes all advanced audio codecs. Your HDMI receiver must be able to decode them. However, all audio codecs come through on all channels if your receiver can decode them, unlike the LG and Samsung dual players.
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post #377 of 13681 Old 12-16-2007, 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted by jlanzy View Post

Wouldn't a 1080p/24 source (that doesn't convert it to 1080i then back to 1080p) to a display that accepts 1080p/24 look, identical on different displays since there is no processing from either source or display. I guess the display does change the 24 to some multiple but that wouldn't cause those observed issues would it?

You have to realize that only Sony LCDs and SXRDs and Pioneer Plasmas plus some front projectors actually do what your talking about. Most TVs take the 1080p24 and change it to 1080p60 and introduce judder back into the picture. Only the XBR4/5 and A3000 do true 5:5 pulldown and the Pioneers do 3:3 pulldown. But I don't think this has anything to do with the issue being reported with the crawling dots.

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post #378 of 13681 Old 12-16-2007, 03:48 PM
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Originally Posted by audiomixer View Post

Does the Panasonic decode all of the audio codecs through bitstream?

Thats a really confusing question because the Panasonic doesn't decode TrueHD or DTSHDMA and send them via PCM, but it does bitstream the TrueHD and DTSHDMA for your 1.3 receiver to decode. I think you were asking the latter so the answer is YES.

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post #379 of 13681 Old 12-16-2007, 03:48 PM
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Originally Posted by haggisbingo View Post

It's already been described as a "lynch-mob" type mentality...

Not quite sure how people come to this conclusion when we have confirmed video and audio issues that don't exist with other playes.
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post #380 of 13681 Old 12-16-2007, 03:49 PM
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Originally Posted by word302 View Post

do any of the posters who have 1.3 receivers have experience setting up the bitsream audio. I know when I got my 1400 it took some tweaking to get it to work with my onkyo 875. Just wondering if they missed a setting in the player or the receiver.

This is what I'm wondering about to, even on my XA2 and A35 getting the bitstream to work properly is sometimes glitchy. It didn't work the first time after changeing the settings on the XA2. And both players somehow loose the setting if they are not turned on last in the HDMI chain.

Post what you had to do for the 1400 to maybe help some of these guys out!

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post #381 of 13681 Old 12-16-2007, 03:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Schneider View Post

SileasResearch

Do you know if the hardware in the 1400 and 5000 are similar?

In other words, does the 5000 have the potential to have the same picture improvement with a FW fix that the 1400 did?

If this is the case, it seems Samsung should be able to fix it easily, and therefore quickly. (insert optimistic emoticon)

Doing a quick check (although the date of this press release sure is odd considering the release date of the player), it looks like it is SigmaDesigns SMP8634:

http://www.sigmadesigns.com/public/C...ses/071018.pdf

Here is the product brief:
http://www.sigmadesigns.com/public/P...SMP8634_br.pdf

So, listening to my own advice, no more comparisons to the BD-P1400, since that is a completely different reference design from a completely different company.

Focus on comparisons to the LG-BH200 (not 100) which has the same Broadcom BCM7440 reference design only.

I believe the only similarity between the 1400 and 5000 at this point is mechanical and the cosmetics of the UI (if that). From a program management standpoint, that the 1400 got firmware updates indicates that Samsung does firmware updates. It does not indicate whether that was pulled from SigmaDesigns (i.e. Samsung pressed SigmaDesigns for fixes) or pushed from SigmaDesigns (i.e. SigmaDesigns gave unsolicited fixes on a release cycle), or somewhere in between.

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post #382 of 13681 Old 12-16-2007, 03:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eurotrance View Post

I do own foreign HD DVDs with DTS HD MA, problem is how do I know for sure I'm hearing MA and not just the core out of my analog outs ?

it should be comparable to how a lossless 5.1 pcm track on a br disc sounds
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post #383 of 13681 Old 12-16-2007, 03:52 PM
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Originally Posted by SileasResearch View Post

Isn't that some sort of multiangle camera indicator? DVD does the same thing when alternate angles are available. Anyone experience that on other Bluray players?

Never saw this playing Rat on the PS3. But you usually have to turn angles on or something don't you? I would hope it wouldn't give angle icons all the time. Sure didn't with the PS3.

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post #384 of 13681 Old 12-16-2007, 03:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Not quite sure how people come to this conclusion when we have confirmed video and audio issues that don't exist with other playes.

I think it was described how pretty much ALL of the players initially had these same issues but the bashing continues ....
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post #385 of 13681 Old 12-16-2007, 03:53 PM
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Originally Posted by arbitrage000 View Post

You have to realize that only Sony LCDs and SXRDs and Pioneer Plasmas plus some front projectors actually do what your talking about. Most TVs take the 1080p24 and change it to 1080p60 and introduce judder back into the picture. Only the XBR4/5 and A3000 do true 5:5 pulldown and the Pioneers do 3:3 pulldown. But I don't think this has anything to do with the issue being reported with the crawling dots.

My BenQ W10000 is taking the 24p natively, and exhibts the issue (I am second verification, after eurotrance). I concur, this is not a framerate issue, and it exhibts at both 24p and 60p.

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post #386 of 13681 Old 12-16-2007, 03:55 PM
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Originally Posted by ab2ab View Post

This is slightly off-topic, but despite the fact that you "need" a 1.3 receiver and player to send bitstream signals, has anyone ever tried to bitstream with a 1.2 version receiver from a 1.3 version player? I ask because it's apparently possible to transmit 1080p/24 and DTS MA bitstream between the two using a version 1.2 switcher.

Anybody care to take a stab at that one?

Sorry for the side question but this thread seemed like it could use a little levity. :-)

No its not possible, the 1.3 receivers are the only ones with decoding for TrueHD and DTSHDMA built in. Yes you can pass through a 1.2 switcher as its just a digital signal passing through. You can also use the oldest HDMI cable one could find for 1.3 work. I use old $3 monoprice cables for all my 1.3 bitstreaming and they work fine. 1.3 cables add nothing except for long cable runs.

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post #387 of 13681 Old 12-16-2007, 03:57 PM
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wait and see for a new dual player at CES? or wait for a firmware upgrade? Answer, just wait it out, get a biggger discount or betterr player. thats my two cents after reading the complete thread.

Thank you silas research your thoughts are welcomed and appriceated.
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post #388 of 13681 Old 12-16-2007, 03:59 PM
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I think eurotrance gave the best advice ever. Try it. If you don't like it send it back.

For sure. There are so many combos of player, display, and possibly processors as well that there is no simple "it works" or "it doesn't work" answer. Try it if you have one ordered from a place that allows no cost returns and return it if it sucks.

Maybe the real lesson is to damn sure buy it from a place with a good return policy!

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that is clear, simple, and wrong.


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post #389 of 13681 Old 12-16-2007, 04:01 PM
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I just set-up the TCP address along with network mask and primary and secondary DNS but the player is still not recognized on the network. Any ideas?


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post #390 of 13681 Old 12-16-2007, 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by traveler View Post

I just set-up the TCP address along with network mask and primary and secondary DNS but the player is still not recognized on the network. Any ideas?


Ahh - an honest to goodness on-topic post

1) Is there a reason you are not using DHCP?
2) Turn on "NTP Server". This is bad nomenclature, as it means "get time from an NTP Server", not "act as NTP Server", but see if it picks up the correct time.
3) I found that it wanted a reboot after messing with network settings. Specifically: It moaned about not being able to see the firmware update site until I rebooted after messing around with the network settings.
4) I am using DHCP. I checked my DHCP server (on my Linksys W54GL router running dd-wrt, http://www.dd-wrt.com) and saw that the MAC address of the 5000 was in the lease list (the MAC is in the 5000's network settings menu).
5) I enabled traffic logging on the router and saw the NTP request going out and back, as well as the firmware request (which is how I found the link to the firmware update portal in one of my early posts Friday night).

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Integra 80.3
Panasonic DMP-BDT220; Samsung BD-UP5000; Directv HR20-700, AppleTV gen 3
7x JBL PT800 2x Parasound HCA-1500A stereo -> Fronts, 4x HCA-1000A bridged -> 4x surrounds
2x JBL PS1400 SW by QSC MX1500A stereo
Dedicated room
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