BD-UP5000 Universal Player Samsung [OFFICIAL OWNERS THREAD] & FAQ - Page 17 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #481 of 14166 Old 12-17-2007, 02:34 AM
 
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^Not sure if that's possible but the OP could certainly copy/paste it via an editing of his post and give you the appropriate credit.

Great work!
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post #482 of 14166 Old 12-17-2007, 02:39 AM
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my biggest concern is #5 with the Audio FAQ. Hope we will get a 100% certain answer soon if the 5000 will bitstream ALL advanced audio formats.
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post #483 of 14166 Old 12-17-2007, 02:41 AM
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eh... no big deal. It is the 4th one down, and easy to see. I just wanted to make sure no one spawned a new thread.

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post #484 of 14166 Old 12-17-2007, 02:44 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanderdvd View Post

my biggest concern is #5 with the Audio FAQ. Hope we will get a 100% certain answer soon if the 5000 will bitstream ALL advanced audio formats.

This and the visible lack of at least 256MB of persistent memory for profile 1.1 requirements....AND the present video artifacts.

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Originally Posted by SileasResearch View Post

eh... no big deal. It is the 4th one down, and easy to see. I just wanted to make sure no one spawned a new thread.

Yea, upon reading it, I just realized it would be harder to maintain by way of a third party. Bad idea on my part.
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post #485 of 14166 Old 12-17-2007, 02:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanderdvd View Post

my biggest concern is #5 with the Audio FAQ. Hope we will get a 100% certain answer soon if the 5000 will bitstream ALL advanced audio formats.

I'm a bit tired right now, but I will try to research this more in the next few days. As more people get this from UPS shipments, the answers will become clear. I am fuzzy on that one since I don't have the equipment. I will wait to post definitively until I see multiple independent confimations of how it operates. That may already be in the thread, but I've just missed it.

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post #486 of 14166 Old 12-17-2007, 02:59 AM
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I'm running Disturbia right now, which I rented tonight. It has Dolby Digital EX and DTS 6.1 ES. I confirmed that my processor is picking those up over SPDIF and properly creating the center surround channel, but if I use the internal decoder, the center surround is silent on both formats. This is with either output, I tried both, even though I am setup for only 6.1.

So, more evidence that the onboard decoding is immature.

I'll add this to the FAQ too.

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post #487 of 14166 Old 12-17-2007, 04:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SileasResearch View Post

I'm running Disturbia right now, which I rented tonight. It has Dolby Digital EX and DTS 6.1 ES. I confirmed that my processor is picking those up over SPDIF and properly creating the center surround channel, but if I use the internal decoder, the center surround is silent on both formats. This is with either output, I tried both, even though I am setup for only 6.1.

So, more evidence that the onboard decoding is immature.

I'll add this to the FAQ too.

Gotta fix that - Top Gun sounds too good in 6.1 DTS.

Great work on the FAQ!!
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post #488 of 14166 Old 12-17-2007, 04:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SileasResearch View Post

I'm running Disturbia right now, which I rented tonight. It has Dolby Digital EX and DTS 6.1 ES. I confirmed that my processor is picking those up over SPDIF and properly creating the center surround channel, but if I use the internal decoder, the center surround is silent on both formats. This is with either output, I tried both, even though I am setup for only 6.1.

So, more evidence that the onboard decoding is immature.

I'll add this to the FAQ too.

how do you have the speakers configured in the samsung...
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post #489 of 14166 Old 12-17-2007, 04:39 AM
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Originally Posted by SileasResearch View Post

Nevertheless, I am absolutely positive there is some sort of dithering going on, because when I look at the output from the 360 on the pixel phase image from DVE, it looks like I painted the grid on my screen. Totally rock solid and unchanging, like wallpaper - almost disturbingly so. But with the 5000, there is a constant motion to it, and a fluttering of the whole greyscale that has a gaussian feel to it. It is always there, even on the Samsung logo screen.

Can you take a shot of both screens with a digital camera for comparison? The highest resolution you can...? (you can upload the pic here: http://www.shareapic.com/ )
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post #490 of 14166 Old 12-17-2007, 04:49 AM
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Originally Posted by BenDover View Post

how do you have the speakers configured in the samsung...

All channels enabled (small with LFE) in the speaker setup. I ran test tones to verify this.

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post #491 of 14166 Old 12-17-2007, 04:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FrancescoP View Post

Can you take a shot of both screens with a digital camera for comparison? The highest resolution you can...? (you can upload the pic here: http://www.shareapic.com/ )

Stills will not capture this correctly. It needs to be motion, as this is a time-based phenomema. Like I said in an earlier post, I will take high speed HD video of this and will post it up.

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post #492 of 14166 Old 12-17-2007, 05:26 AM
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Originally Posted by SileasResearch View Post

Heh.... funny. If you don't get this, sorry. I'm not going into all the details. If you know how to read this, then it's for you. If not, then it's not.


If you feel like spending little more time on this, can you run this with some other commands besides syn, to see what exactly is open and not on this box? ie:

TCP Null (–sN), FIN (–sF) and Xmas (–sX) scans, UDP scan (-sU) and IP protocol scan (-sO) .....

From memory the BH200 had telnet open but they closed it on the new firmware update (that's about all it did supposedly).

EDIT:
I don't assume for you to paste the full results from all the scans, but incase you find anything let us know.
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post #493 of 14166 Old 12-17-2007, 05:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SileasResearch View Post

To me, this looks like compression artifacts interacting poorly with film grain and is not the other issue I've been seeing.

About to go to work, just wanted to chime in on this : effectively, I believe it's on every scene that has film grain. It's like the more film grain there is in a scene, the more it adds its own digital grain in the form of crawling black dots.

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post #494 of 14166 Old 12-17-2007, 05:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eurotrance View Post

About to go to work, just wanted to chime in on this : effectively, I believe it's on every scene that has film grain. It's like the more film grain there is in a scene, the more it adds its own digital grain in the form of crawling black dots.

When you have time, you might try Close Encounters (BR), the effects shots have notorious levels of grain due to the film stock and the method of compositing the effects of the day. OTOH, CEoTTK's effects scenes are all very dark, so the video issue may not be as noticeable. Also, I saw a post, but not a reply... is the video issue present with films shot or rendered digitally (i.e. Happy Feet, Meet the Robinsons, Apocalypto, etc.)?

Also, I read a post where it was less noticeable on a CRT based television? Any truth to that? If so, could it have something to do with a particular class of display devices (LCD, Plasma, DLP etc.)? Just a thought.

Thanks so much for the reports and testing, but thanks even more for allowing us poor people who are patiently waiting for product, so we can start seeing what you are seeing and either increasing our level of frustration, or enjoying a new home theater experience!

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post #495 of 14166 Old 12-17-2007, 06:01 AM
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Any more still shots at high resolution? Perhaps something, umm, nice from Black Book
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post #496 of 14166 Old 12-17-2007, 06:05 AM
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I have taken some close up video of my screen with the 5000 and Xbox360 displaying the mid grey area of the DVE pixel phase test, which is a good way to see the problem. Also, both players were paused on this (your are not seeing actual moving video - this is a single paused frame). What you are seeing is a close up of a handful of DLP pixels projected on a screen. The camera is about 0.4 meters back using a macro mode (you know, for close up filming of flowers and ants and such). The specific area of the DVE pixel clock and phase test is the bottom middle. If I had panned the camera to the right, you would have seen a huge "P" from the caption "Pixel clock and phase..." which is in the bottom right corner of the screen.

It's about a 5 second clip. The first half is the 5000. The second half is the XBox360. You can tell the change because the pixels move. Note the moving waves during the clip from the 5000. This is realtime footage, not high speed. I did some of that, but it was very dark and not very usable. This really shows what I am seeing. I suggest playing it on repeat and just looking at the whole image. Don't just stare at a couple pixels, as you will not see the motion. Also note that the camera bumps around a bit on the first clip. Ignore that - probably an earthquake (Los Angeles, you know...)

Please forgive the free file hosting and any ads that pop up (mediafire.com). I'm open to suggestions for other free hosting sites.

I have zipped it to be a bit smaller (~13MB instead of ~20MB).

http://www.mediafire.com/?aldwcvus5cd

To be detailed, the 5000 is set to 1080p24 and the Xbox360 is 1080p60, but I have seen no difference with this when setting the 5000 to 1080p60. Also, both are running over the same model of HDMI cable, and both are running through the same HDMI switch. But the cables don't matter, because I see this on Component as well. The display is a cheap screen being projected on by a BenQ W10000.

Also bear in mind that this is DV from a CCD in low light, so some of the noise you see is from that. Also, the footage was rendered as NTSC DV Widescreen, which is exactly how it was captured. This is from my wife's editing system. There are no additional compression artifacts in this footage you are watching. It is the pure DV format.

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post #497 of 14166 Old 12-17-2007, 06:27 AM
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Good job, Sileas...and thank you. I can really see what your talking about. Very disturbing.
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post #498 of 14166 Old 12-17-2007, 06:34 AM
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I definitely see the difference. One question, is the camera moving on the 1st half of the video clip. or is the cross hatch grid really moving from the 5000's output.
The grid does not move in the 2nd half from the 360, but seems like its wobbling from the 5000
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post #499 of 14166 Old 12-17-2007, 06:37 AM
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WOW!

At first I thought there was something wrong with the clip as all I saw was "black". I maximized it to "full screen" and see the faint grey square blocks (as described - in motion for the first half of the clip). This reminds me a bit of one of those "marquis" that you'd see on a corner on Broadway, running text headlines, only where there is no text, there are ghosts of the pixel-blocks where the text would be.

Can you give us any description of the size of these blocks? Are they down toward the pixel level, or could they be described in millimeters? Was the video captured off of an output or by aiming a camcorder at the actual display?

I will gladly host the clip when I get home. I can also (for illustration purposes) adjust the brightness, to show an exaggerated view of the bug, so people know what to look for on the original "dark" video clip. I might also be able to render it as a high quality WMV file for streaming.

SileasResearch - let me know if you'd like me to do this I'd be only too happy to assist (but wouldn't be able to get to this until later this evening (I'm in CST).

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post #500 of 14166 Old 12-17-2007, 06:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SileasResearch View Post

I have taken some close up video of my screen with the 5000 and Xbox360 displaying the mid grey area of the DVE pixel phase test, which is a good way to see the problem. Also, both players were paused on this (your are not seeing actual moving video - this is a single paused frame).

Took a look at this clip and this is another flaw I have also on mine, but I would say it's not as obvious as your example for me. In fact, if I don't get my nose right up to the screen, I can't see it.

On the other hand, the crawling black dots drive me nuts. It is so bad I am more and more convinced I have a defective unit. Or at least I'm hoping it is defective, but seeing as how many people have now stated they get a beautiful picture, there's no way anybody could miss what I'm seeing.

I'm going to try an exchange, but since no BB around here has the unit in stock, it might take me a while... Only by trying out another unit will I know for sure if it was a defective one or all of you guys are blind

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post #501 of 14166 Old 12-17-2007, 07:01 AM
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This probably has been answered earlier in this thread but, I just need a few simple questions answered strictly concerning the 7.1 anolog out feature.
If I understand correctly you guys/girls have figured out that the player will output through the 7.1 anolog outputs:
1. DD+
2. DTS HD
3. DTS Master HD.....Maybe
4. DD True HD......2 ch only
I could probably find this info by searching through all the threads, but since I'm a busy guy I thought maybe someone could confirm or deny what I'm thinking is the case.
I could care less about HDMI as I have no intention of replacing my top of the line Marantz equipment solely to obtain HDMI capability.
Thanks in advance for your response
Mark

Mark
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post #502 of 14166 Old 12-17-2007, 07:07 AM
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To expand on the above question, as I can only use the analog outs as well. I have 1 7.1 analog input on my Lexicon.
Do the above formats come out as 5.1 or 7.1?
If only 5.1, when do all 8 outputs become active? Is it movie dependent?
If it is only 6 of the 8 outputs, which 2 are silent?
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post #503 of 14166 Old 12-17-2007, 07:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snave8 View Post

This probably has been answered earlier in this thread ... I could probably find this info by searching through all the threads, but since I'm a busy guy I thought maybe someone could confirm or deny what I'm thinking is the case.

Yes it has, if you look at the first page 4th post most the questions are answered. No one knows them all for sure since only a hnadful of players are in the hands of people commenting here.
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post #504 of 14166 Old 12-17-2007, 07:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SileasResearch View Post

No.... that is probably your issue, unless you have a really fat pipe to the internet. I have mine set much lower (768) because that is more like my connection to the internet. The NTP and firmware updates are probably timing out very quickly. Not sure why to include this feature, but it may be so that the player doesn't sit for a very long time when there is no connection. It waits as long as it thinks is reasonable based on the throughput you set. The default for this is 56K (modem) which would be the longest wait time. Since you switched it to 10MBPS, the timeouts are probably under 1 ms.

I'm beginning to think there is a networking problem with my 5000. I have a 5 megabit connection to the Internet. And, I tried setting the speed to 56K (modem) and there is still no connection. I will set-up a sniffer this evening and see what is or is not going out from the unit. I can ping it but that's all so far.

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post #505 of 14166 Old 12-17-2007, 07:52 AM
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Hmm, am I mistaken or do several of the folks that DO NOT see the video issue have Samsung displays and NONE of those that do see it have Samsung displays?

Hard to keep track of who has what on these posts but maybe Samsung only tested this thing with their own displays?

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post #506 of 14166 Old 12-17-2007, 07:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snave8 View Post

This probably has been answered earlier in this thread but, I just need a few simple questions answered strictly concerning the 7.1 anolog out feature.
If I understand correctly you guys/girls have figured out that the player will output through the 7.1 anolog outputs:
1. DD+
2. DTS HD
3. DTS Master HD.....Maybe
4. DD True HD......2 ch only
I could probably find this info by searching through all the threads, but since I'm a busy guy I thought maybe someone could confirm or deny what I'm thinking is the case.
I could care less about HDMI as I have no intention of replacing my top of the line Marantz equipment solely to obtain HDMI capability.
Thanks in advance for your response
Mark

You forgot the most important one - the only lossless format: LPCM 5.1/7.1 - which is the equal )some say better) of TrueHD and DTS-MA. And yes, that works fine out of all channels...
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post #507 of 14166 Old 12-17-2007, 08:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haggisbingo View Post

You forgot the most important one - the only lossless format: LPCM 5.1/7.1 - which is the equal )some say better) of TrueHD and DTS-MA. And yes, that works fine out of all channels...

Out of ALL 8 channels, or 6 of the 8?
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post #508 of 14166 Old 12-17-2007, 08:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by obxdiver View Post

Out of ALL 8 channels, or 6 of the 8?

I have a 6.1 LPCM I will test today (Crank). Next month I'll get 3:10 to Yuma which IS 7.1 LPCM. But, I can't foresee any reason why it would be limited to 5.1 when there are 7.1 ports??
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post #509 of 14166 Old 12-17-2007, 08:18 AM
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Mine just arrived from Crutchfield. I'll connect it via HDMI to a Denon 3808 & Pioneer Elite PRO-FHD1. One coming today should eliminate any question that the ones sold at BB were some sort of demo, which I doubt.
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post #510 of 14166 Old 12-17-2007, 08:21 AM
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BTW the item on the Crutchfield invoice everyone has a question about is in the box. 2 free BR movies to choose from....but its for the 1400.
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