BD-UP5000 Universal Player Samsung [OFFICIAL OWNERS THREAD] & FAQ - Page 28 - AVS Forum
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Old 12-18-2007, 10:40 PM
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In order to use a wireless bridge you also need a wireless access point or wireless router.

I have one of these in my theater connecting to an 8pt switch
http://games.dlink.com/products/?pid=383

I run a HTPC, DTV HR20, Integra, Samsung, Squeezebox, and A2 into the switch then into the adapter. I also have another one in my master connected to another DTV HR20

For just the Samsung you'd plug right into it.

Then you need an access point or wireless router by your modem. I'd just get both features in one box.

http://games.dlink.com/products/?pid=474

I posted "gaming" adapter just b/c I got a good deal. It's mostly marketing any wireless router and access point in bridge mode would work.
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Old 12-18-2007, 10:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miata View Post

Doesn't this indicate that it was bit-streaming the DTS core?

I was assuming he only had a 5 channel setup. But yes, it would if he had 7 speakers.
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Old 12-18-2007, 10:44 PM
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I edited my post guys, the DTS-HD track option isn't even on the disk. It was an in movie audio menu error.
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Old 12-18-2007, 10:45 PM
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The linksys WET200 is a wireless G bridge with 5 built in ports. I use it and it has worked really well for me.
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Old 12-18-2007, 11:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomb View Post

Nothing but a new firmware basically.

BTW, edfowler and I compared player build dates and firmware versions too. I have the player made in October and he has the newer revision made in November, and each has a distinct firmware. So, its not an issue of the different revisions of the player. Also, my disc is brand new, I literally opened it and tried to play it for the first time, so obviously not a disc issue.

The only thing I can think of that would explain some players playing Live Free or Die Hard and some not is different disc revisions. I doubt that though, and too be honest I don't have any solid proof that anyone has successfully played Live Free or Die Hard in this player.

Greetings!
Live Free or Die Hard DOES play, glitch free in my 5K. It was part of my original test disk arsenal last night.
Best,
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Old 12-18-2007, 11:17 PM
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I was just putting away my manual and noticed the front cover says "Blu-ray Disc Player - User's Manual - BD-UP5000" and then a Samsung Logo....no mention of HD-DVD whatsoever. I just thousght that was curiously funny.

Probably the nicest manual I've seen with a CE product in a long time though. Very nice looking.
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Old 12-18-2007, 11:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ckelly33 View Post

I was just putting away my manual and noticed the front cover says "Blu-ray Disc Player - User's Manual - BD-UP5000" and then a Samsung Logo....no mention of HD-DVD whatsoever. I just thousght that was curiously funny.

Probably the nicest manual I've seen with a CE product in a long time though. Very nice looking.

And yet...the only discs it can't play...are Blu-Ray. Go figure. This truly is marketed as a BD player that can also play HD-DVD's. Interesting that Samsung still markets one way, but the facts tell another story. Hmmm....

Maybe dual players is still the way to go. I'm on the fence. I really wanted this player to be "the one." Not quite there yet. I think I'll stick with my LG a while longer.
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Old 12-18-2007, 11:21 PM
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Maybe that's were all our dough went

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Old 12-18-2007, 11:38 PM
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I had my first playback problem tonight... although it was minor.

Smokin' Aces HD-DVD (entertaining movie... and I'm a big fan of Alicia Keyes)

For the first few minutes (17 or so), it totally "stuttered" or "skipped"... both audio and video would "pause" ... I stopped the disc and checked for smudges, scratches, etc. None found.

I then restarted playback at the chapter i stopped on and playback was normal. for the rest of the movie, there were two more places where the same playback problem happened. I didn't note the times, because they were so momentary and I didn't want to get up to look at the player.

-- Garrett
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Old 12-18-2007, 11:39 PM
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Thanks, Guys. I have a Belkin Pre-N. What should I buy to network the 5000 with that?

Also, I have the October build date. Is the update necessary?
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Old 12-18-2007, 11:41 PM
 
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So the BBFB shipment arrived...have barely been able to test it and will have to do more tomorrow, but it played Lost season 3 without a hitch (did experience some motorboating during the menu at one point but starting playback of an episode resolved it). Transformers (without reboot of the unit) also played without a hitch. I also have to say (and it may just be my own calibration or TV set problems...I've got Samsung's own LN-T4665F), that the latter half of Transformers certainly brings out the grain/digital artifact hybrid in many of those darker scenes. The thing is, my 360 add-on (coupled with the 360) was no different in this regard. I wasn't really detecting any "gray dot" movement on the Samsung logo screen, however.

PS. I'm HDMI via an Onkyo TX-SR605.
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Old 12-19-2007, 12:28 AM
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I just got done watching Crank in LPCM 6.1. It looked and sounded great. I did encounter a slight hiccup the first time I tried to play the disc. I inserted it clicked play, walked away, when I had came back I heard what sounded like the Movie playing but the screen remained at the Samsung screen. I tried hitting a few buttons and it was acting very funny so I just powered off the unit and on again and it worked without a hitch the second time.

Edit: One interesting thing to note of the LPCM 6.1 track. My receiver reported Multi Ch. In as expected, however, 7 channels/speakers light up on the receiver. In comparison when I tried to play Total Recall which claimed to be a HTS HD track over bitstream the receiver said DTS (ES light was on) and 6 channels/speakers lit up. This is the first time I have played anything over PCM let alone LPCM so perhaps the 7 channels being lit up was normal. My speaker setup is only a 5.1.
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Old 12-19-2007, 01:02 AM
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I don't have Transformers to check on the grain issue, but i have the HD/SD combo 300 disc. I was wondering if those who are seeing the grain/compression black dot issue also see this in the white columns and little Leonidis' face in the first few seconds of 300.

This title definitely shows a lot of grain, but i'm not sure that's due to film, "on purpose" or due to player problems.

Thanks.
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Old 12-19-2007, 01:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by __Tango View Post

I don't have Transformers to check on the grain issue, but i have the HD/SD combo 300 disc. I was wondering if those who are seeing the grain/compression black dot issue also see this in the white columns and little Leonidis' face in the first few seconds of 300.

This title definitely shows a lot of grain, but i'm not sure that's due to film, "on purpose" or due to player problems.

Thanks.

I have read several times that "300" does have alot of intentional film grain
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Old 12-19-2007, 01:58 AM
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I put the new version of Help! into the 5000 with bitstream-audiophile encoding. The Denon 3808 lit up with the DTS Surround and the picture and audio were amazing! I saw the Help! exhibit at the Rock Hall last week (they showed the "new" movie in the theater) and after watching last night on the 5000, all I can say is WOW! To me it sounded like we were back at the Rock Hall. The video was excellent as well. I also thought that the video/audio were better than on my Oppo 980.

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Old 12-19-2007, 02:11 AM
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Sileas now that the hi res internal pics have been posted, what is the verdict on the installed memory size of the player?

Is it confirmed to only have 128MB? or do the chips installed tell a different story?

By the way thanks for all the great work. I am in NZ and there is no chance that this player will be released here till at least mid 2008 and at a horrendous price too. I have one on pre-order with a mate there.
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Old 12-19-2007, 02:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jabz View Post

Sileas now that the hi res internal pics have been posted, what is the verdict on the installed memory size of the player?

Is it confirmed to only have 128MB? or do the chips installed tell a different story?

Not sure yet. Another poster with the first revision of the board spotted 512MB of NAND Flash, which is holding both the persistant storage and the software for the player. I am guessing 256MB for the software image based on download times, and also on program times from gut feel from NAND erase, program, and verify times. But we don't know why only 128 MB is reported yet.

Also, I have not seen what the chips are on the newer boards. They are probably the same, but not confirm.

I will put more on the FAQ as I get my thoughts and info organized a bit better.

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Old 12-19-2007, 03:32 AM
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Guys,

I think I am starting to grok the audio thing, but not quite yet. We have been trying really hard to figure out what it doesn't do, but I think it may make more sense to understand what it does do, and why.

As I update the FAQ, I keep seeing patterns in what does and does not work, and I've felt like we are all just blind men feeling little parts of the proverbial elephant.

I think we are definitely dealing with a minimal audio firmware subsystem, designed to hit minimum required specs and to be as stable as possible for an early market timing driven release (limited xmas 07). It may be that they pulled back on the feature set because it was not stable enough to release all the additional codecs, and so therefore, we are getting what follows:

(reference this page for where I am getting some requirements for this stuff... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compari...hnical_details)

Analog decoding:
- do the bare minimum to get out the union of required audio formats for HD and BD in a multichannel way, this means:
- Dolby Digital 5.1 only (no EX)
- DTS core (5.1)
- LPCM 5.1 and better
- Dolby True HD, bare minimum requirement is 2 channel
- Speaker setup is really the absolute minimum - the number of channels, and crossover to prevent damage to band-limited speakers.

On board decoding for streaming as LPCM on HDMI:
- much the same as analog decoding. Do the same bare minimums as above to pass out over HDMI.
- on board decoding for analog and digital LPCM passing on HDMI are really the same thing. It is really just where the resulting bitstream gets sent to, I2S outputs or HDMI transceiver

Bitstream passing:
- Since the heavy lifting is the on-board decoding, all mandatory codecs get passed on HDMI. This is not a stretch of the imagination, since decoding them means pulling them out of the transport streams. If you've pulled them out to decode, then it's easy enough to shovel that same data to the HDMI inteface for external decoding.
- anything that isn't getting touched for onboard decoding is also not getting passed on bitstream, since it is not already getting pulled out of the transport streams.

I know if I were dealing with the this, and needed to get the product out for whatever market reasons, and there were issues with the stability, I'd pull everybody into a room and make sure we could get the HD and BD mandatory specs, and get them completely stable. As we have seen with the motorboating, even core stability is not quite there.

I'm not making comment on whether or not this is ok (this has been discussed at other times), but just trying to see the whole elephant, if you pardon the metaphor.

Any thoughts?

Thanks.

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Old 12-19-2007, 04:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomb View Post



Considering those are 512 Mega "bits" each, it looks like the main system memory is equal to 512 Mega "bytes".

Off to the side labeled on the motherboard as "NAND2" is a samsung flash chip:

http://www.samsung.com/global/system...8uxa_rev10.pdf

Did you capture the part number on the chip (sorry, I just cannot tell from the pictures attached.. I assume you did, as you've gone for the 4Gbit part)?

ie:
K9K8G08U1A -> 8Gbit (1GB flash)
K9F4G08U0A -> 4Gbit (512MB flash)
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Old 12-19-2007, 04:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SileasResearch View Post

Ooooof. That is a bad understanding. Let me give you an analogy.

Have you ever faxed a fax? I mean, faxed a piece of paper that was faxed to you? If you keep doing it, it gets worse and worse until it is unreadable.

Think of each compression format as a piece of glass. You are on one side of the glass, and the pretty picture (imagine audio as the musical score or the waveforms if you must) is on the other.

Everything between you and the picture is a sheet of glass. Some are cleaner that others. If, for example, I take a 128Kbit mp3 of a high quality 192KHz / 24 bit recording, the dirty glass of the 128Kbit compression is the overriding factor. If I then decompress the mp3 and then reencode it with AAC because I like AAC better, all I have done is place the AAC piece of glass between me and the picture. The mp3 glass is still there.

In your case above, the original Dolby Digital encoding is a piece of glass. The DTS re-encode is a piece of glass. Instead of just one of them between you and the original audio, now there are two. Disregard any thoughts about which one is better, but instead remember that they are both lossy and both different. The interaction between the two will cause greater issues than either one alone. To go back to the glass analogy, what happens when you look through polarized sunglasses through another set of polarized sunglasses (or at a device using polarized plastic for anti-reflectivity)? The image degrades massively, even disappearing completely.

The best thing would be not re-encode at all. But saying that DTS re-encoding of the original Dolby Digital somehow makes it into a DTS quality signal (speaking of the benefits, not the drawbacks) is wrong. You will get the union of the worst aspects (the dirty glass) of both formats.

Absolutely excellent analogies. I was going to correct him, but I couldn't have done it better. It's like when I want an MP3 from a friend and they offer to burn it to CD for me... NO! I do not want to have to re-encode it at home!

Back on topic, has anyone compared the quality of re-encoding DD+/DTS-HD/PCM to this high bitrate DTS vs just bitstreaming the core DD or DTS? In terms of Sileas' analogy, it'd be like 2 clearer panes of glass vs one muddier pane, so you can't call it just by the numbers. I would guess the high bitrate re-encode of a higher quality format would sound slightly better... but that's assuming:
1) The re-encoded DTS is at a higher bitrate than the extracted DTS core.
2) On-the-fly encoding is as effective as the encoding they do when they master a disc.

The reason I ask is that currently my analog inputs are occupied, so I'll be using digital over coax until I upgrade to an HDMI receiver (most likely the Denon AVR-3808CI).

Despite the BD-UP5000's flaws, I'm excited to pick up this unit when I return from vacation. I don't even have an upconverting DVD player yet (been waiting for this player). In a way, the temporary lack of bitstreaming will be good for me; I won't feel compelled to jump to an HDMI receiver immediately.

Hopefully this will be sorted out with a firmware update soon, since I can't imagine a brand new $800 player not properly bitstreaming everything. Decoding... well, sorry analog guys, decoding is a lot more work than bitstreaming. You may or may not get your wish.

Also, WHEW, been away from the computer and came back to find the BD-UP5000 released and a new owner's thread already at 28 pages... can't believe I read the whole thing!

Samsung BD-UP5000 (1.3), Samsung 4671 (1013.1), Denon AVR-3808CI, HTD Level 3 5.1
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Old 12-19-2007, 04:54 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raptor007 View Post

Absolutely excellent analogies. I was going to correct him, but I couldn't have done it better. It's like when I want an MP3 from a friend and they offer to burn it to CD for me... NO! I do not want to have to re-encode it at home!

OT but burning it to a CD-R as data will not warrant any ill effects of transcoding since you can just copy the file from the disc as is (and thus not require any re-encoding aka transcoding).
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Old 12-19-2007, 05:03 AM
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I must admit I am confused (my normal state) as to why the 5000 has a speaker set up routine. I could understand this if there were speaker connectors, but there are none. Just the analog/digital outputs to a receiver. I am use to choosing bitstream, PCM, etc., and having the signal go to a receiver where it handles the speakers. By doing this in the 5000, isn't it therefore getting done twice?

I have an el cheepo 5.1 receiver right now that is running 3.1 speakers. I have the L/R/C speakers set as small since they are holderovers from a HTIB system. Crossover is set for 80 Hz. As I noted above, I am used to setting my output device as far as the signal that is sent to my receiver. What do I do in this case? If I use the receiver (analog connection) instead of just the tv's speakers, would I:

1. Connect all 7.1 speaker outputs on the 5000 and then to the receiver?

2. Would I connect the 3.1 outputs only since that is what is set up on the receiver?

I currenly have a regular DVD player connected to my receiver via optical. It did not have any type of speaker set up as far as small/large etc. Just sends the audio and the receiver does the rest.

Sorry for this long rant but really trying to understand what will be the best way to handle the audio connections.

Thank you very much for any advice.

Regards,

Steve
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Old 12-19-2007, 05:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SileasResearch View Post

Guys,

I think I am starting to grok the audio thing, but not quite yet. We have been trying really hard to figure out what it doesn't do, but I think it may make more sense to understand what it does do, and why.

As I update the FAQ, I keep seeing patterns in what does and does not work, and I've felt like we are all just blind men feeling little parts of the proverbial elephant.

I think we are definitely dealing with a minimal audio firmware subsystem, designed to hit minimum required specs and to be as stable as possible for an early market timing driven release (limited xmas 07). It may be that they pulled back on the feature set because it was not stable enough to release all the additional codecs, and so therefore, we are getting what follows:

(reference this page for where I am getting some requirements for this stuff... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compari...hnical_details)

Analog decoding:
- do the bare minimum to get out the union of required audio formats for HD and BD in a multichannel way, this means:
- Dolby Digital 5.1 only (no EX)
- DTS core (5.1)
- LPCM 5.1 and better
- Dolby True HD, bare minimum requirement is 2 channel
- Speaker setup is really the absolute minimum - the number of channels, and crossover to prevent damage to band-limited speakers.

On board decoding for streaming as LPCM on HDMI:
- much the same as analog decoding. Do the same bare minimums as above to pass out over HDMI.
- on board decoding for analog and digital LPCM passing on HDMI are really the same thing. It is really just where the resulting bitstream gets sent to, I2S outputs or HDMI transceiver

Bitstream passing:
- Since the heavy lifting is the on-board decoding, all mandatory codecs get passed on HDMI. This is not a stretch of the imagination, since decoding them means pulling them out of the transport streams. If you've pulled them out to decode, then it's easy enough to shovel that same data to the HDMI inteface for external decoding.
- anything that isn't getting touched for onboard decoding is also not getting passed on bitstream, since it is not already getting pulled out of the transport streams.

I know if I were dealing with the this, and needed to get the product out for whatever market reasons, and there were issues with the stability, I'd pull everybody into a room and make sure we could get the HD and BD mandatory specs, and get them completely stable. As we have seen with the motorboating, even core stability is not quite there.

I'm not making comment on whether or not this is ok (this has been discussed at other times), but just trying to see the whole elephant, if you pardon the metaphor.

Any thoughts?

Thanks.

This is pretty much the pattern i was seeing as i read the variuos reports flowing into this thread. As you say, signals going out oer the analog outputs or as PCM over HDMI are both down to what the internal decoders can process, which means only 2 channel TrueHD, core DTS only etc. It does surprise me that given that passing the encoded bitstreams over HDMI (ie audiophile mode) should be "easy" compared to internally decoding them, that they didnt/couldnt get this done in time for release... it certainly would have satisfied all the people with the latest/greatest receivers that can decode the formats... but your hypothesis is plausible, that they arent pulling them from the stream so thus cant even shovel them off over HDMI...


Now there are a few more owners around, i will restate my previous question asking if someone is able to test whether the player can handle PAL format DVD disc (eg VIDEO_TS folder/VOB files). Most US model HD/BD players dont, which is a big drawback for aussies like myself looking to import players from over there as i would like to be able to play at least my backup (ie region 0) standard DVDs, eventhough region 4 is obviuosly a no go... but id like if someone could check the 5K for me
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Old 12-19-2007, 05:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunderduck View Post

I must admit I am confused (my normal state) as to why the 5000 has a speaker set up routine. I could understand this if there were speaker connectors, but there are none. Just the analog/digital outputs to a receiver. I am use to choosing bitstream, PCM, etc., and having the signal go to a receiver where it handles the speakers. By doing this in the 5000, isn't it therefore getting done twice?

I have an el cheepo 5.1 receiver right now that is running 3.1 speakers. I have the L/R/C speakers set as small since they are holderovers from a HTIB system. Crossover is set for 80 Hz. As I noted above, I am used to setting my output device as far as the signal that is sent to my receiver. What do I do in this case? If I use the receiver (analog connection) instead of just the tv's speakers, would I:

1. Connect all 7.1 speaker outputs on the 5000 and then to the receiver?

2. Would I connect the 3.1 outputs only since that is what is set up on the receiver?

I currenly have a regular DVD player connected to my receiver via optical. It did not have any type of speaker set up as far as small/large etc. Just sends the audio and the receiver does the rest.

Sorry for this long rant but really trying to understand what will be the best way to handle the audio connections.

Thank you very much for any advice.

Regards,

Steve

The speaker setup/settings on the player are purely used for the analog outputs, and should not affect the digital optical or HDMI connections. Basically the multi channel analog inputs on a receiver get piped straight to the amplifier section and to the attached speakers with no processing or bass management etc. this is why there are settings in the player for speaker size, distance, crossover etc. On the other hand optical, coax and HDMI come into the receiver as digital signals, and go through all of the processing of the receiver, having crossovers applied, things like equaliser curves, listening modes and so on, and then are finally converted to analog and sent to the amplifier section and then out to the speakers.
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Old 12-19-2007, 06:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scarecrow420 View Post

The speaker setup/settings on the player are purely used for the analog outputs, and should not affect the digital optical or HDMI connections. Basically the multi channel analog inputs on a receiver get piped straight to the amplifier section and to the attached speakers with no processing or bass management etc. this is why there are settings in the player for speaker size, distance, crossover etc. On the other hand optical, coax and HDMI come into the receiver as digital signals, and go through all of the processing of the receiver, having crossovers applied, things like equaliser curves, listening modes and so on, and then are finally converted to analog and sent to the amplifier section and then out to the speakers.

Oh, I beilieve I understand! I made the assumption that both analog and digital were being processed by the receiver. In effect, the analog inputs on a receiver could almost be considered as pass through connections.

Thank you very much.

Steve
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Old 12-19-2007, 07:00 AM
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please lets limit posts in this thread to owners or questions to owners

Thanks

please take the high road in every post
if you see a problematic post, please do not quote it or respond to it: report it to the mods to handle
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Old 12-19-2007, 07:10 AM
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[quote=Nomb;12530924]I think so. I have compared notes with edfowler and neither of us can get Live Free or Die Hard (bluray) to play.

That's really odd. Live Free or Die Hard was the first blu-ray movie I tried on the 5K. I watched the entire movie with no problems. The only thing that didn't work with this movie was the resume play function.
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Old 12-19-2007, 07:21 AM
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Hi,
I have the sammy bd-1000 and by playing another disc and then putting LFODH in the unit, it played.
Still trying to get the 5000 but because I live in nyc they are not here yet. Went into bb and they finally have a sticker for it but no product and they dont know when it is coming in.
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Old 12-19-2007, 07:36 AM
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Great FAQ...it really helps. There was a post a ways back stating that the manual may have incorrectly described how large and small speaker setup works on the 5k. I have all more or less full range speakers (certainly down to 50hz on center and surrounds). Is it possible to choose large for all and still send under 100 hz to the subwoofer. I know that's not ideal, because it could end up being too much bass but perhaps I could compensate somehow with the crossover and EQ settings on my sub. I believe my sub is designed for 80hz and under (the manual discusses EQ settings between 18 and 80 hz). What I don't want is only a choice between 100 hz crossover for all speakers (small) or large on all speakers with NO sub. thx
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Old 12-19-2007, 07:37 AM
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I've noticed the anynet feature doesn't work with HDDVD's. I can't get out of the disc menu without going into my media room and pressing play. Works fine with bluray movies
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