BD-UP5000 Universal Player Samsung [OFFICIAL OWNERS THREAD] & FAQ - Page 31 - AVS Forum
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post #901 of 13678 Old 12-19-2007, 11:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FreddyW View Post

Ah, but always ask for the public forums if you're gonna post on a thread with both users

The whole point is to go HDMI. Less cables = GOOD. All I need to do is sell my Xbox360 and buy an HDMI-equipped one and I am analog cable FREE!!

I have, no joke, two rubbermaid containers in the basement, packed with analog cabling. Best thing I did was sell Pre/pro and amps and go to a new Denon AVR.

Of course the point is to go HDMI for less cables, but some of us just can't afford to buy this player and a new receiver at the same time, so the analogs have to do for now and this is great news for us. I am not sure what your statement about the public forums meant?????
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post #902 of 13678 Old 12-19-2007, 11:20 AM
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After reading a number of posts on a few threads I'm still a little confused. If I were to have a receiver like the Onkyo TX-NR905 and it was married to the Sammy 5000, would that solve the issues regarding the TrueHD or MasterHD? Would it pass thru the signal to the receiver and let the onkyo decode it?
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post #903 of 13678 Old 12-19-2007, 11:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mntwister View Post

Of course the point is to go HDMI for less cables, but some of us just can't afford to buy this player and a new receiver at the same time, so the analogs have to do for now. I am not sure what your statement about the public forums meant?????

Just joking a bit. It seems that every 5th post is "what about analog????" and then 5 posts later, "What about HDMI???" It's like HD-DVD vs. Blu-RAY...

And as for "can't spend the money"- bah, this is a hardcore AV hobbiest forum! We ALL spend the money as fast as we can Isn't that the point- latest and greatest at the expense of, oh, say food & shelter?

HDMI- it's the new black!!!!!
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post #904 of 13678 Old 12-19-2007, 11:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FreddyW View Post

Just joking a bit. It seems that every 5th post is "what about analog????" and then 5 posts later, "What about HDMI???" It's like HD-DVD vs. Blu-RAY...

And as for "can't spend the money"- bah, this is a hardcore AV hobbiest forum! We ALL spend the money as fast as we can Isn't that the point- latest and greatest at the expense of, oh, say food & shelter?

HDMI- it's the new black!!!!!

I totally agree with you about HDMI. Unfortunately, having purchased the Epson 1080 projector, and soon this player, I need to keep my credit card payment to an amount I can pay comfortably. The new receiver would put me over the top, but don't think I don't want one soon, hehe. I am waiting for CES for that one, to see what 2nd generation HDMI dolby true/DTS HD receivers come out.
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post #905 of 13678 Old 12-19-2007, 11:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mntwister View Post

Of course the point is to go HDMI for less cables, but some of us just can't afford to buy this player and a new receiver at the same time, so the analogs have to do for now and this is great news for us

.. or have the WAF for procuring both at the same time.. Which is why I am waiting until mid-Jan to make a final purchasing decision. She will be out of the country, and I should have the time to make some rough estimates as to our 2007 tax refund or payment, and will go forward.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocco Bones View Post

After reading a number of posts on a few threads I'm still a little confused. If I were to have a receiver like the Onkyo TX-NR905 and it was married to the Sammy 5000, would that solve the issues regarding the TrueHD or MasterHD? Would it pass thru the signal to the receiver and let the onkyo decode it?

Not yet. The 5000 doesn't bitstream DTS-MA or TrueHD (7.1) yet.

Just pay attention to the "bitstream" posts, not the "decode" or "analog" posts.

Waiting for my 2012 upgrade...
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post #906 of 13678 Old 12-19-2007, 11:33 AM
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Originally Posted by eurotrance View Post

Damn, this is exactly what I see on mine. So much for hoping it was a defective unit. How can people on here not have a problem with this and say the player gives a great picture ? I'm sorry but for me it's totally unbearable. Even my girlfriend, who's far from picky when it comes to PQ, tells me these shots look awful.

As long as the movie was shot on film, it's on all the titles I have tried so far. If there's very little film grain to begin with, it's not that noticeable (even though I can tell it doesn't look as good as it should), but if there's more film grain, it adds so much of the black pepper, it's damn unacceptable, to the point where I would rather watch a VHS tape than this.

I guess this one is going back for a full refund, an exchange will not do me any good.

Don't despair yet. They are working on firmware fixes (reportedly) which also involve picture issues.

But please post for us comparitive photos between the XA2 and the 5000 of that shot of the snow. Without that, we can't do an analysis of why they show things differently. Don't give us the whole image, just pick a portion (with ice and water maybe).

Please. Thanks

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post #907 of 13678 Old 12-19-2007, 11:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carljanderson View Post

.. or have the WAF for procuring both at the same time.. Which is why I am waiting until mid-Jan to make a final purchasing decision. She will be out of the country, and I should have the time to make some rough estimates as to our 2007 tax refund or payment, and will go forward.




Not yet. The 5000 doesn't bitstream DTS-MA or TrueHD (7.1) yet.

Just pay attention to the "bitstream" posts, not the "decode" or "analog" posts.

even through hdmi?
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post #908 of 13678 Old 12-19-2007, 11:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocco Bones View Post

even through hdmi?

Yep. It currently can't properly output bitstream or decoded multichannel TrueHD or DTS-HD MA via analog or digital (though it does output the lossy DTS multichannel stream instead for DTS-HD MA). Uncompressed LPCM outputs fine via analog and digital, as do all the lossy Dolby and DTS formats.
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post #909 of 13678 Old 12-19-2007, 11:38 AM
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What makes you think it is a problem with the player rather than being a problem with the DVD itself?
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post #910 of 13678 Old 12-19-2007, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by tostitobandito View Post

Yep. It currently can't properly output bitstream or decoded multichannel TrueHD or DTS-HD MA via analog or digital.

Thanks for the info. It pays to actually ask your question rather than just reading others in hopes of finding what you want to know.
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post #911 of 13678 Old 12-19-2007, 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted by snowtrooper1966 View Post

We are simply getting to see all the warts in the source material.

No, absolutely not. The player adds black crawling dots and these are not the way it was encoded but rather a problem with the decoding from the player. I can tell you for a fact there's no way in hell this black pepper is supposed to be there.

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post #912 of 13678 Old 12-19-2007, 11:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocco Bones View Post

Thanks for the info. It pays to actually ask your question rather than just reading others in hopes of finding what you want to know.

FYI SileasResearch has a link to a very informative wiki he set up posted at the bottom of all his post - great for FAQ's.

Believe page 1, post #1 has the linky.

(Thanks again SileasResearch)
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post #913 of 13678 Old 12-19-2007, 11:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SileasResearch View Post

Don't despair yet. They are working on firmware fixes (reportedly) which also involve picture issues.

But please post for us comparitive photos between the XA2 and the 5000 of that shot of the snow. Without that, we can't do an analysis of why they show things differently. Don't give us the whole image, just pick a portion (with ice and water maybe).

Please. Thanks

I have tried taking pictures with my girlfriend's digital camera, but I've always sucked at it, so I can't get anything but blurry shots. I have no idea how to take a picture that will be defined enough for you guys to see how terrible these scenes look.

As for firmware fixes, I'll have to wait until the end of january to make a final decision, but I'm not going to take a $745 gamble if there's no fix to this by then. I'd rather return it and get it again once the problem is reported as being fixed than wait for a fix we don't know will come or not.

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post #914 of 13678 Old 12-19-2007, 12:01 PM
 
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Originally Posted by mntwister View Post

Here is my response today. I was put through eventually to level 3 support, a product specialist on this item. He knew of the problems right away and left for 5 minutes and came back and verified that they are aware of the issues of decoding Dolby True AND DTS HD through the analogs and they are already preparing a firmware update to correct this so that they will both pass 5.1 or 7.1. He said the unit IS capable of decoding DTS HD and Master Audio and capable of sending it through the analogs with the firmware update. He also said the update would be available "very soon" and to check the website in the next couple of weeks. Since my concern is passing these formats through the analogs, I did not ask about the bitstream through HDMI, my Denon does not have HDMI and I am more concerned with getting these soundtracks passed through the analog settings. So from what he said, and he did sound like he was very aware of this (in fact he stopped me and finished for me when I was describing the issue, so he did know about it). This is good news for us with receivers that have no HDMI but that do have receivers with 5.1 or 7.1 analog inputs (my Denon has 7.1).

So it seems this conflicts with others that called, but he did check with the firmware department and said absolutely the upgrade is very close to being released. Whether it will work for bitstreaming over HDMI I will leave to someone who has that capability to find out hehe. I am still going to wait for purchase until I can verify that this firmware upgrade works for this intended purpose. If it indeed sends the Dolby True and DTS HD through the analogs in 5.1 or 7.1, the unit is then must for me, what with having both formats, interactivity and the Reon HQV.

ADDED LATER: I forgot to mention that he also told me several picture enhancements were also going to be in the firmware upgrade, perhaps this may be the gain issues? I don't know.


Well, it seems that you got farther than did...but we asked two different questions. I asked about bitstream and never mentioned decoding. You asked about decoding and not bitstream. I can live with decoding but really wanted bitstream.

So as it stands now, we have, from Samsung Support:

(from my call), no planned firmware update for advanced audio bitstreaming, "maybe in the future."

(from mntwister's call), firmware update for advanced audio decoding coming "soon". I hope this is for analog and HDMI.

Are we making this player more of an Enigma than it really is? When piecing all the info together from all the owners here, it sounds like Samsung really rushed this....for what....maybe a hundred or so sales before Christmas?
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post #915 of 13678 Old 12-19-2007, 12:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eurotrance View Post

I have tried taking pictures with my girlfriend's digital camera, but I've always sucked at it, so I can't get anything but blurry shots. I have no idea how to take a picture that will be defined enough for you guys to see how terrible these scenes look.

As for firmware fixes, I'll have to wait until the end of january to make a final decision, but I'm not going to take a $745 gamble if there's no fix to this by then. I'd rather return it and get it again once the problem is reported as being fixed than wait for a fix we don't know will come or not.

First, use a tripod. Second, make sure you are on a "macro" setting. This usually is indicated by a flower or something, and is designed for taking close-ups.

Third, where in California are you? Maybe I am close enough to come over and take a look.

I am looking around to "rent" an A2 to reproduce this myself, but just haven't had the time to do a complete search.

Also, what firmware are you on for your Toshiba player (A2 or XA2?)

Thanks

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post #916 of 13678 Old 12-19-2007, 12:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Good Cat View Post

Are we making this player more of an Enigma than it really is? When piecing all the info together from all the owners here, it sounds like Samsung really rushed this....for what....maybe a hundred or so sales before Christmas?

Yes, and an official product launch at CES. This was a soft launch.

I am going to update the FAQ with more info. Also, I think I am going to get my badge for CES now and just go for a day. I didn't have anything that I needed to see or support for work directly this year, but I'll take a vacation day and go out now to get more info from Samsung and Broadcom both.

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post #917 of 13678 Old 12-19-2007, 12:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lalittle View Post

eurotrance -- did you ever confirm whether or not you had a malfunctioning unit? It seemed like you guys have been describing the same thing, but your reaction was clearly a lot stronger.

Thanks,

Larry

I tried to get another unit for the last 3 days but the 2 BB stores around here have none in stock, none on order, according to them. Even though 1 of them has one unit but they refuse to sell it to me saying it's their demo model.

However, after I read Sileas' latest posts on this, I'm now convinced it's not a defective unit but the way the 5000 decodes film grain and adds its own digital grain to it, making it look like there's 3 or 4 times the grain we should actually see. Maybe we all have different expectations, but after having lived with an A1, A2, XA2 and a PS3 since these units have been out, I want to have something that at least matches what I get from these players, not something that looks terrible in comparison.

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post #918 of 13678 Old 12-19-2007, 12:22 PM
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I guess they didn't mention anything about providing some minimal speaker management (e.g., crossover). I would buy this thing if I had some warm fuzzy feeling that would happen.
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post #919 of 13678 Old 12-19-2007, 12:22 PM
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Quote:


(from mntwister's call), firmware update for advanced audio decoding coming "soon". I hope this is for analog and HDMI.

This seems far more likely in that it is in agreement with Samsung's pre-release statements. Of course, one never knows what "soon" means....

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that is clear, simple, and wrong.


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post #920 of 13678 Old 12-19-2007, 12:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SileasResearch View Post

First, use a tripod. Second, make sure you are on a "macro" setting. This usually is indicated by a flower or something, and is designed for taking close-ups.

Third, where in California are you? Maybe I am close enough to come over and take a look.

I am looking around to "rent" an A2 to reproduce this myself, but just haven't had the time to do a complete search.

Also, what firmware are you on for your Toshiba player (A2 or XA2?)

Thanks

I'm not in California anymore, just never bothered to update my profile since I moved last year. I'm now living in Idaho.

I don't own a tripod, but I'll try to make something up to put the camera on. I'll see about the macro setting and see what I can come up with.

All my players have the latest firmware on them, not that it matters because they always have given me a great picture from day 1.

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post #921 of 13678 Old 12-19-2007, 12:34 PM
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Okay, I received an Oct. build 5000. I'm coming from a Denon 5900 (can you believe it?) which is 4 years old. I got the 5000 from a local BB and they matched the BBFB price. I used the difference for an extended warranty. I never do this but rationalized it for this purchase.

I got it up and running but I don't have high def disks yet. Will do that this weekend. Nor do I know how to network this. I don't have the wall plugs for an ethernet port adapter and I don't know what type of wireless bridge to buy for integration with my Pre-N router. I may just buy a 50' cable. Could use some advice here.

I put in the latest Pirate SD DVD. I'm not sure the Reon is that big of an improvement over what the 5900 was delivering. But, the audio sent HDMI to my Onkyo 885 pre/pro was dramatically better. I mean really.

I did see the creepy-crawlies on the logo page but it looked like the whole screen was undulating but I had my nose to the screen. From 6 ft. it's not troublesome except that once I knew it was there....well, it affected my viewing experience psychologically even though visually it wasn't a concern as I was sitting about 9 ft. back.

The "stop" button on the remote stopped working and I had to turn the machine on and off.

I've never owned a piece of electronics that I felt could crap out at anytime. But I have that apprehension with this one. Merited or not.
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post #922 of 13678 Old 12-19-2007, 12:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eurotrance View Post

No, absolutely not. The player adds black crawling dots and these are not the way it was encoded but rather a problem with the decoding from the player. I can tell you for a fact there's no way in hell this black pepper is supposed to be there.

Again, thanks for the information.

Even though you said this previously,
Quote:
Originally Posted by eurotrance View Post

That describes what I'm seeing with all movies I tested on the UP5000, but I had never seen that on either my A1, A2 or XA2.

and this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by eurotrance View Post

About to go to work, just wanted to chime in on this : effectively, I believe it's on every scene that has film grain. It's like the more film grain there is in a scene, the more it adds its own digital grain in the form of crawling black dots.

did you clearly see this phenomenon on "Apocalypto", specfically? Would you please compare the 5000 to your PS3 on Apocalypto?

Quote:
Originally Posted by eurotrance View Post

Huge difference for me is that my A1, A2 and XA2 all gave me great picture from day 1. Before I decide to keep this player, I will have to hear from Samsung that they will issue a firmware update for the video digital noise (or crawling black dots, whichever we decide to call it).

At least if they officially do recognize the issue, we're half way there. Now if they ignore it, then we could keep waiting for a fix forever.
...................................

So far, at least, there doesn't appear to be a concensus, even from AVS owner/posters, that the 5000 has a video problem, let alone an acknowledgement of it from Samsung.

Absolutely no offense intended, but I'd hate to think that all this issue boils down to is a matter of taste. For example, the other day while shopping, my wife and I overheard a couple raving about a sofa that my wife and I, had we won it, would have immediately delivered to a land fill. In short, I have learned to never underestimate the power of taste.
_______________________

Sileas, did you by any chance have an opportunity to see "Apocalypto" on your 5000 and, if so, what did you think of the video image?
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post #923 of 13678 Old 12-19-2007, 12:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eurotrance View Post

No, absolutely not. The player adds black crawling dots and these are not the way it was encoded but rather a problem with the decoding from the player. I can tell you for a fact there's no way in hell this black pepper is supposed to be there.

I recall you have a giant screen and sit quite close to it, about as much of a "torture test" as you could imagine for this kind of issue. Are you able to move further away to where it disappears ( or at least it's not so annoying - you'll always know it's there) Seems like you are more sensitive to it than most and possibly closer : how many screen widths do you normally view from?

Thanks
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post #924 of 13678 Old 12-19-2007, 01:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Herve View Post

Absolutely no offense intended, but I'd hate to think that all this issue boils down to is a matter of taste. For example, the other day while shopping, my wife and I overheard a couple raving about a sofa that my wife and I, had we won it, would have immediately delivered to a land fill. In short, I have learned to never underestimate the power of taste.

I don't think it is a matter of taste, but of expectation (I had a long post about that a few pages back). I expect and recognize film grain, but I am a bit bewildered as to why it is so pronounced, as I know what an answer print looks like (I've run them), and this is far too much grain. Yes, there is an issue, but I think it is either a decoder bit-depth issue or some sort of filter setting.

But I think any discussion of this is moot until we have side by side images of this from two players - one that does not exhibt this, and one that does. Somebody want to send me an A2?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Herve View Post

Sileas, did you by any chance have an opportunity to see "Apocalypto" on your 5000 and, if so, what did you think of the video image?

Sorry, didn't make it out to pick that up. Went to a real movie theater to see Enchanted with my wife. I'll try to pick it up today, but we are going to Imax I Am Legend (again for me, first for her) tonight.

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post #925 of 13678 Old 12-19-2007, 01:20 PM
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I have an A2 and can do a test on both tonight with 300 if there is interest.
Same HDMI cable, same display, same through setting on my Integra.

Just give me a good scene as I haven't had time to watch the whole movie yet.
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post #926 of 13678 Old 12-19-2007, 01:24 PM
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Any idea if we get any free discs with this unit? Mine should be arriving today or tomorrow.
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post #927 of 13678 Old 12-19-2007, 02:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChicagoTC View Post

I have an A2 and can do a test on both tonight with 300 if there is interest.
Same HDMI cable, same display, same through setting on my Integra.

Just give me a good scene as I haven't had time to watch the whole movie yet.

Please not 300 - it has way too much stylized grain in the film. It is a very poor test for this. Do you have transformers? That is a good reference.

Thanks.

Panasonic PT-AE7000; TBD Screen!; Sony glasses
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post #928 of 13678 Old 12-19-2007, 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted by cmr15 View Post

Any idea if we get any free discs with this unit? Mine should be arriving today or tomorrow.

I'm sending in for the 7 frees BDs (Holiday Offer on the web site) even though it doesn't explicitly name the unit. We'll see..

http://product.samsung.com/blurayoffer/
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post #929 of 13678 Old 12-19-2007, 02:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Mr. Good Cat View Post

Ok, Info from Samsung regarding DTS HD MA & Dolby True HD Bitstreaming.

I called the support line.

I was transferred to a very knowledgable service rep. Knew all about advanced audio. He said the unit is being produced without the capability to bitstream DTS HD MA & True HD. Duh, I think we have figured that out by now.

Anyway, he said there is NO work being done on these capabilities right now, but maybe in the future.

The ONLY firmware update being worked on right now for the BD-UP5000 is "Disc Compatibilty" issues regarding video playback. I didn't ask for details.

It is my opinion that the manufacturer's today think we are bunch dummies. They want you to buy there product and give a nice talk how there will support for upgrades. They fail to realize that the majority of us home theater buffs have equipment that can reproduce the audio and video that the new HD players and software have to offer.

Those of us, like me, that can use bitstream are now in a wait and see status. And what about those who want to upgrade their AVR or Pre-Pro to the next level, they are left in the cold?

More and More tiles are coming out with either TrueHD or DTS MA. (I always like DTS over Dolby). The manufacturer's are that blind and death in this business?

As of last night, I was seriously think of getting the 5000, knowing that the firmware was shortly down the road. Samsung has to make a major firmware update quickly or they are going to lose a nice customer base. For the price of the 5000, during this holiday season, you can buy separates for just as much.

I am wondering if I shall wait and see what the CES 2008 next month has to offer get that product in 6 months.
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post #930 of 13678 Old 12-19-2007, 02:13 PM
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ok, sorry for this, but can someone pm me how you are placing and receiving orders from bbfb...i can't even find the damned item on their site, much less order it...
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