BD-UP5000 Universal Player Samsung [OFFICIAL OWNERS THREAD] & FAQ - Page 453 - AVS Forum
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post #13561 of 13608 Old 06-26-2014, 04:30 AM
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Originally Posted by mr.kludge View Post
... Since you skipped it maybe when you loaded 1.6 it did not mess with your loader but I know from my testing if I take any of my players back to 1.2 then to 1.5 or 1.6 after that I end up with _0321_ and not _8124_ I also know that if I take a player back to 1.2 then up to 1.7 right after that _8124_ will stick. That is the only path I found that would work. Then again I have seen stranger things happen with this player....
There is one detail that may or may not be important but one of the updates, and I think it was 1.6, did not complete in the normal way. The machine hung with the updating screen up and I had to unplug it after some time.
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post #13562 of 13608 Old 06-26-2014, 09:25 AM
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You have two options. Use the built in Apple Disc utility to bun a disc image. I forget the menu options but just look for burn disc image and select the unzipped file that you download from the site. You can also use just about any version of Roxio Toast and burn a disc image from there. Be careful not to create a data disc with the file on it. That won't work. The file you download is an ISO disc image and but be burned as such or your player will spit it out and say that it can't read the disc.

Also it is probably best to use a CD-R/W rather than a CR-r for this in case you mess up. I use failed CD-rs for coasters, but they are better used for their intended purpose of media and data. The other reason is that there is a batch of loaders out there that won't accept a CD-r for a f/w update. Don't use a DVD or BD as neither of those will work.

If anyone needs discs I will still make them and send them to you for $5. I have a good supply of CD-r/ws that I inherited from my late father and they are Verbatim so they should work, but I haven't tested them yet. My CD-r for 1.7 is on Verbatim CD-r media and works well in all but my project player. I have/had been using Kodak CD-r/ws that I bought aver a decade ago and they work great also.
Thank you thank you thank you! Wish me luck, I'll burn a couple of discs and try and make some time to tackle it this weekend.
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post #13563 of 13608 Old 06-26-2014, 10:25 AM
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There is one detail that may or may not be important but one of the updates, and I think it was 1.6, did not complete in the normal way. The machine hung with the updating screen up and I had to unplug it after some time.
Ah, yes I forgot about that. Haven't thought about it before since it has never happened to me, but it makes sense that might be there reason some folks players get hung up at the end of some updates. I know that there are 2-4 different updates that get done and Sammy engineers have programs to do each separately (and possibly repair techs. as well) as it is documented in the service manual. Anyhow would be interesting to learn if the folks that had hang ups have been able to keep _8124_. I know there are at least 3 or more different versions of the loader mechanism and I'm sure results vary with them. I have '07 and '08 loaders. Sometime in early '08 the loader was redesigned for better reliability, but I had one in for repair that came back with an '07 loader. I don't know if that loader was new or refurbished but my guess is it was old stock or most likely one that got updated since it was way after the demise of this player. I have never put any time on the loader other than to test it and the player when it came back. I have kept it as my ultimate backup loader once all my other loaders and players die. Since I have plenty of spares I'm sure my main player will keep going almost forever. If I sell all my extra players and parts, of course it will fall apart and I won't be able to fix it.
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post #13564 of 13608 Old 06-26-2014, 10:33 AM
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Thank you thank you thank you! Wish me luck, I'll burn a couple of discs and try and make some time to tackle it this weekend.
let us know and good luck. BTW - while at 1.2 why don't you test the 24fps tearing of HD-CDs. If I recall that is with AVC MPEG-4 encoded HD-DVDs primarily from Paramount or Universal if I remember right. I think there is a list somewhere near the start of this or the problem disc thread that details them. I know Transformers is affected along with Babel and I think Things We Lost in the Fire. Anyhow it would be nice to know the difference there from 1.2>1.7. In my experience this has gotten a little better with each release, but was fully fixed in 1.2 and came back in 1.3 and has been there since. The fix is to switch to 60fps so hopefully you have 24fps capability. I didn't have time or did not think about it when I did my loader testing. a few weekends ago was the only time other than for just a couple weeks after I got my first/main player that I have ran 1.2 ever since I was bummed with the crippled audio in 1.2 and patiently waited for 1.3 to have bit streaming and fully capable DDTHD.
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post #13565 of 13608 Old 06-26-2014, 10:39 AM
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My Babel won't play at all; didn't like it, anyway.

Will try Transformers...
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post #13566 of 13608 Old 06-26-2014, 10:49 AM
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My Babel won't play at all; didn't like it, anyway.

Will try Transformers...
I forgot to mention that the higher the aspect ratio of the movie it makes it harder to see the effect. If you choose a 1.78:1 it will be very noticeable. I think that is the HD TV full aspect ratio that fills the entire screen and some moves are released that way, one notable one is the Criterion Release of Traffic that was released blown up at the request of Soderburgh as the released movie and 1st disc releases were at 1:85:1 which is the typical movie release ratio and since there will be bars on the top of the screen the effect/problem is less noticeable. Transformers is 2.35:1 which is widescreen and will have even larger black bars on the top so as I recall the tearing only affects a small part of the top of the screen. With 1.3 and 1.4 it got pretty bad again and got a little better with 1.6 and I recall hardly noticing it at all with 1.7 and a few discs. A lot has to do with your TV, AVR settings etc. Nowadays if I play one of those discs and remember or see the problem and it bothers me I just switch to 60fps and the problem goes away. I think this is also a factor with problems with DDTHD dropouts as well. I think the player has a hard time doing both 24fps and DDTHD on HD-DVDs at the same time. At least that has been my experience. Might explain why you had no issues with Top Gun if you were set to 60fps? I think it is one of the tearing affected discs as well. Same studio, same video codec with the better DDTHD sound.
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post #13567 of 13608 Old 06-26-2014, 10:53 AM
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BTW - my note about the player not being able to keep up with 24fps/DDTHD is only if you bitstream. I have never had dropout issues with any disc and DDTHD if I set the player to internal decode by using LPCM/PCM or whatever you want to call it. I can't explain why the extra processing of DDTHD internal would be easier on it than bit streaming, but their bitstream code is probably not as efficient as the internal decode and is just an extension of DD processing anyhow of I recall in the chip the player uses.
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post #13568 of 13608 Old 06-27-2014, 09:13 AM
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Originally Posted by mr.kludge View Post
let us know and good luck. BTW - while at 1.2 why don't you test the 24fps tearing of HD-CDs. If I recall that is with AVC MPEG-4 encoded HD-DVDs primarily from Paramount or Universal if I remember right. I think there is a list somewhere near the start of this or the problem disc thread that details them. I know Transformers is affected along with Babel and I think Things We Lost in the Fire. Anyhow it would be nice to know the difference there from 1.2>1.7. In my experience this has gotten a little better with each release, but was fully fixed in 1.2 and came back in 1.3 and has been there since. The fix is to switch to 60fps so hopefully you have 24fps capability. I didn't have time or did not think about it when I did my loader testing. a few weekends ago was the only time other than for just a couple weeks after I got my first/main player that I have ran 1.2 ever since I was bummed with the crippled audio in 1.2 and patiently waited for 1.3 to have bit streaming and fully capable DDTHD.
Okay, disc burning went well. I only had CD-R's so I hope that's not an issue. I seem to remember doing it before with CD-R so I think I'll be alright there.

You're probably going to burn my AVS membership card, but I'm not sure if my Samsung Plasma does 24fps or not. I've never felt the need to try it, but I'll give it a go if I get the chance. I still have the original Transformers on HD-DVD so I'll test that one on 1.2 and then again on 1.7 if I can.

Do I do anything special when I go to revert the FW or do I just pop in the disc and let it do its thing?

Thank you again for all of your help with this. This thread/resource most likely would have died long ago without you and it is much appreciated by myself and I'm sure many others.

Last edited by puckhead; 06-27-2014 at 09:21 AM.
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post #13569 of 13608 Old 06-27-2014, 09:31 AM
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Okay, disc burning went well. I only had CD-R's so I hope that's not an issue. I seem to remember doing it before with CD-R so I think I'll be alright there.

You're probably going to burn my AVS membership card, but I'm not sure if my Samsung Plasma does 24fps or not. I've never felt the need to try it, but I'll give it a go if I get the chance. I still have the original Transformers on HD-DVD so I'll test that one on 1.2 and then again on 1.7 if I can.

Do I do anything special when I go to revert the FW or do I just pop in the disc and let it do its thing?

Thank you again for all of your help with this. This thread/resource most likely would have died long ago without you and is it much appreciated by myself and I'm sure many others.
You don't need to do anything special to revert to 1.2 or to upgrade back to 1.7. Both updates SHOULD preform a COLD START after they run, but it probably won't tell you that it is. I USUALLY do a COLD START before and AFTER a brand new update, but I did not do so when I was experimenting except I think I did try some of the unplayable discs once I got to 1.7 and _8124_ to see if they would play. I probably did some COLD STARTS just to make sure. It's probably a good idea to do one before the update anyhow. If you have any sort of lock up etc. where the player does not do it's normal thing then do one for sure. If you have forgot you hold >| down for 5-6 seconds with the player on, no disc in and the tray closed and after a few seconds it should display COLD START and reset.

To do 24fps you will need to set the player to that and if your TV supports it you will get video and a dialogue asking you if you want to keep the setting. It it is not supported you TV will probably complain in various ways and if you don't confirm it will revert back to 60fps. If you run into trouble just do a COLD START and it will go back to factory and should work again. You may also need to enable 24fps support in your TV, but to date I have never seen a Sammy TV that requires that. It will just work if supported. Some TVs support the setting, but really don't do much in the way of perfecting the picture in my experience. If your plasma was born at least after '07 or '08 it should support ti.

What should happen with each update is that you open the tray, put the disc in and it will detect it as an update. The update will be read, verified and stored into memory then it will ask you if you want to apply and will report what you are running now and what will be applied. Versions will be the date based filenames and not the version numbers so you need to be somewhat familiar with the dates they were created/released. Once the update is finished the drawer will close and the unit will revert to factory and shutdown. Before this you need to remove the disc. Your clue that the update has finished is when the drawer closes and the unit turns off. I remember now that I had at least one update and I don't remember which when I was testing a few weeks ago where the tray did not close, but the player did shut off. I did the same update on the same player and others later and it did not do that. Seems like it was a upgrade and not a downgrade at the time. I should have kept better notes on that, but since the player shut off and turned back on and was not locked up I chalked it up to maybe the tray just not responding to the command for some reason. Maybe it was tired of opening and closing a million times in one night?

Again good luck.
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post #13570 of 13608 Old 06-27-2014, 09:34 AM
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Okay, disc burning went well. I only had CD-R's so I hope that's not an issue. I seem to remember doing it before with CD-R so I think I'll be alright there.

You're probably going to burn my AVS membership card, but I'm not sure if my Samsung Plasma does 24fps or not. I've never felt the need to try it, but I'll give it a go if I get the chance. I still have the original Transformers on HD-DVD so I'll test that one on 1.2 and then again on 1.7 if I can.

Do I do anything special when I go to revert the FW or do I just pop in the disc and let it do its thing?

Thank you again for all of your help with this. This thread/resource most likely would have died long ago without you and it is much appreciated by myself and I'm sure many others.
BTW - did you ever verify what loader code you have now. I can't see where you reported it. If you are already on _8124_ don't mess with it and just do a COLD START and retry GoTs and see what happens. If you have _0312_ then I would got back to 1.2 then up to 1.7 COLD START then set the settings and then try GoTs again.
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post #13571 of 13608 Old 06-27-2014, 09:55 AM
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BTW - did you ever verify what loader code you have now. I can't see where you reported it. If you are already on _8124_ don't mess with it and just do a COLD START and retry GoTs and see what happens. If you have _0312_ then I would got back to 1.2 then up to 1.7 COLD START then set the settings and then try GoTs again.
Yes, I will verify the loader code first thing before I start messing around.

All the tips make me feel much more confident that I can handle this. Thanks!
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post #13572 of 13608 Old 06-27-2014, 10:04 AM
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BTW - my note about the player not being able to keep up with 24fps/DDTHD is only if you bitstream. I have never had dropout issues with any disc and DDTHD if I set the player to internal decode by using LPCM/PCM or whatever you want to call it. I can't explain why the extra processing of DDTHD internal would be easier on it than bit streaming, but their bitstream code is probably not as efficient as the internal decode and is just an extension of DD processing anyhow of I recall in the chip the player uses.
I only do internal decode to DTS. I have multi-channel inputs on my receiver, but no decoding of the high rez formats. Last time I moved things around I didn't even bother doing multi-channel, I just use optical and haven't missed a thing. My AVS card is smoldering now.

I guess that would render any testing moot on that front or would you still like me to check the 24fps? I don't mind at all either way. My plasma is a 2013 model if that helps.
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post #13573 of 13608 Old 06-27-2014, 10:39 AM
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I only do internal decode to DTS. I have multi-channel inputs on my receiver, but no decoding of the high rez formats. Last time I moved things around I didn't even bother doing multi-channel, I just use optical and haven't missed a thing. My AVS card is smoldering now.

I guess that would render any testing moot on that front or would you still like me to check the 24fps? I don't mind at all either way. My plasma is a 2013 model if that helps.
That's what I did for about a year after I got the 5k. I had a Denon AVR-486 that only had S/PDIF and used the decode to DTS and it worked great. Then around a year later I picked up the AVR-1909 and took the HDMI plunge. For most purposes the DTS re-encode option through optical/coax-copper works great. Most folks can't hear a difference since DTS is way good sound quality. I can however hear quite a difference in that an lossless codecs esp. when 7.1 is involved. I watch all my TV in DD5.1 and for the most part that sounds good, but not nearly as good as ANYTHING on disc.

Oh and that would not affect your ability to test 24fps as you should be able to run that for your video and use any audio option. I forgot to mention that your AVR needs to be 24fps capable also (if you are running the 5k through it), but any modern AVR that has HDMI should be able to do it. If you are using component then I don't think you will be able to test it.

Also, make sure you check your firmware and loader code versions after each update to verify if your experience is the same as mine.
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post #13574 of 13608 Old 06-27-2014, 10:42 AM
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When you turn on 24fps the analog outputs are disabled (video?) I have always noticed that warning and assume that it relates to the analog video outputs, but might involve the analog audio outs also, but that would make no sense. Probably not your concern if you are HDMI>TV and SP/DIF 5K>AVR.
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post #13575 of 13608 Old 06-27-2014, 10:55 AM
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That's what I did for about a year after I got the 5k. I had a Denon AVR-486 that only had S/PDIF and used the decode to DTS and it worked great. Then around a year later I picked up the AVR-1909 and took the HDMI plunge. For most purposes the DTS re-encode option through optical/coax-copper works great. Most folks can't hear a difference since DTS is way good sound quality. I can however hear quite a difference in that an lossless codecs esp. when 7.1 is involved. I watch all my TV in DD5.1 and for the most part that sounds good, but not nearly as good as ANYTHING on disc.

Oh and that would not affect your ability to test 24fps as you should be able to run that for your video and use any audio option. I forgot to mention that your AVR needs to be 24fps capable also (if you are running the 5k through it), but any modern AVR that has HDMI should be able to do it. If you are using component then I don't think you will be able to test it.

Also, make sure you check your firmware and loader code versions after each update to verify if your experience is the same as mine.
Will do.

I have HDMI straight to the plasma and optical direct to the receiver.
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post #13576 of 13608 Old 06-28-2014, 08:26 AM
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Mine is always set to 1080p/24

HD DVD Transformers is playing fine.
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post #13577 of 13608 Old 07-01-2014, 10:27 PM
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Mine is always set to 1080p/24

HD DVD Transformers is playing fine.
I will have to try the affected HDs again with 1.7 and see if it is still an issue. Transformers is hardly noticeable since it is widescreen and the tearing does not come too far down the screen. I do sorta recall checking that issue when 1.7 released and noted that it was still there but not as bad.
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post #13578 of 13608 Old 07-01-2014, 10:28 PM
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Hey puckhead. How did things go, or have you not gotten around to it?
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post #13579 of 13608 Old 07-02-2014, 04:40 AM
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DID have some issues with TrueHD on Top Gun; ONLY after I put it on PAUSE.

Had to finish the last 5-10 minutes of the movie in dts.
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post #13580 of 13608 Old 07-02-2014, 02:10 PM
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Hey puckhead. How did things go, or have you not gotten around to it?
Not yet. I'm the George R.R. Martin of fw updates.
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post #13581 of 13608 Old 07-05-2014, 09:13 AM
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Yesterday played:

Independence Day DVD NO problems, still the Best Up-convertor, along HD-XA2...

The Patriot Blu ray on LPCM 5.1 Froze 3 or 4 times, still better picture than my LG, but, will probably finish it on LG...

Cars Toon: Mater's Tall Tails Blu ray, played through, twice with NO problems...
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post #13582 of 13608 Old 07-05-2014, 09:23 PM
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Played Cars Blu ray fine.

Would NOT Load Toy Story III Blu ray at first; had to power down & back up again with Disc in drawer to get it to load...
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post #13583 of 13608 Old 07-07-2014, 07:12 PM
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Not yet. I'm the George R.R. Martin of fw updates.
Well would you please hurry up. The suspense is killing me ;-) Same to your namesake and his next book.
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post #13584 of 13608 Old 07-07-2014, 07:21 PM
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Recent Robocop remake/reboot loaded and played perfectly. At first I thought it was one of the best reboots I have seen in the past few years, but as it progresses it goes downhill fast. Too bad since it could have been excellent if they oped for storytelling and character development rather than filling the movie with loud action gun battle scenes. It was fun and entertaining, except I fell asleep near the end and had to watch most of it again (including the 1st part where I was distracted for about 20 min.). I also didn't have my surround back speakers on the first time around. I had fiddled with my AVR last time I used my player and didn't get it back into DTS-HD + DD PLII+ mode.

BTW - that movie is a weird combo. It's a Columbia/Sony movie, distributed by them (the move when in theaters?) but released by MGM/FOX on disc (at least the BD). So I'm not sure if it counts as a Sony or a Fox. It acts like newer Fox releases with the slow loading and forced previews so I'm counting it as Fox. The resume disc feature works really well (after an excoriating long load time) which I appreciated so I didn't have to FF through the previews again.
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post #13585 of 13608 Old 07-07-2014, 07:25 PM
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Yesterday played:

Independence Day DVD NO problems, still the Best Up-convertor, along HD-XA2...

The Patriot Blu ray on LPCM 5.1 Froze 3 or 4 times, still better picture than my LG, but, will probably finish it on LG...

Cars Toon: Mater's Tall Tails Blu ray, played through, twice with NO problems...
That's not a good sign. I have NEVER had an issue with a Sony disc, that I am aware of or remember. Plus that is a really early release one. Disc rot? Do you own it or rental? Might want to check for dirt and scratches?
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post #13586 of 13608 Old 07-07-2014, 07:26 PM
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Own it; plays fine on the LG BRD player.
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post #13587 of 13608 Old 07-07-2014, 07:31 PM
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Originally Posted by SanchoPanza View Post
Played Cars Blu ray fine.

Would NOT Load Toy Story III Blu ray at first; had to power down & back up again with Disc in drawer to get it to load...
That is also not a good sign. AfaIcR I didn't ever have any issues with Toy Story 3. Can't recall if it is one that got stuck at the menu. I will give it a whirl one of these days. I checked my problem reports and I have nothing for the TS series.
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post #13588 of 13608 Old 07-07-2014, 07:37 PM
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Own it; plays fine on the LG BRD player.
Hmmm....maybe a picky loader. Has been known to happen in this player. I'm not really big on the move, but have't seen it in a long time. Too bad BlockBuster is out of commission. Too cheep to upgrade NF for discs so I can check it out. Again, never had an issue with any Sony disc an any of the working loaders I own or have owned including the ones that have various issues with some studios and discs.
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post #13589 of 13608 Old 07-10-2014, 08:13 AM
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Gods & Generals Directors Cut Blu ray, Transformers Dark of the Moon Blu (Dolby TrueHD 7.1), Kelly's Heroes Blu:

All played with No issues.

Spider-Man 3 Blu ray (Sony) Froze repeatedly on both Dolby TrueHD & LPCM.

Played in the LG with No issues.

Will prolly go back to using the LG for ALL Blu ray & HD DVD on this unit; don't have the Toshiba HD-XA2 hooked up just now.
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post #13590 of 13608 Old 07-10-2014, 09:21 AM
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Gods & Generals Directors Cut Blu ray, Transformers Dark of the Moon Blu (Dolby TrueHD 7.1), Kelly's Heroes Blu:

All played with No issues.

Spider-Man 3 Blu ray (Sony) Froze repeatedly on both Dolby TrueHD & LPCM.

Played in the LG with No issues.

Will prolly go back to using the LG for ALL Blu ray & HD DVD on this unit; don't have the Toshiba HD-XA2 hooked up just now.
I'm going to need it try some olden sony bds since you have been having issues with them but my guess that your loader is going south. Usually freeing etc is due to loader or media issues. Interesting that transformers bark at the moon did not have issues for you. Did you use internal decode of ddthd (player set to PCM) or bitstream to your avr? That title traditionally has had audio dropout issues with high action scenes but I haven't reviewed it since the latest f/w release. I'm sure results varry depending on your avr and other settings. Have you tried any olden lionsgate titles on bd? I'm not aware of who or how manufactures various studio releases but with a couple loaders I have found consistent problems with particularly studio releases on both db and hd. I am aware that at one point both sony and lionsgate were pressed the same place using the same media however I had issues with lionsgate and not Sony on that loader so who knows.

Last edited by mr.kludge; 07-10-2014 at 09:24 AM.
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