BD-UP5000 Universal Player Samsung [OFFICIAL OWNERS THREAD] & FAQ - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 13642 Old 12-15-2007, 12:33 PM
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SileasResearch,

Have you thought about upgrading your Rotel 1068 to a Rotel 1069?

I have the Rotel 1069 and it accepts PCM audio via HDMI inputs and sounds great. I had to be one of the first people in to get the new 1069 and found some video issues with it (it cut black levels, and would go "blurry" evey 10 sec), but since Rotel has a fix and is sending me the first "fixed" model to test. Rotel factory says its OK now with the new board, but Rotel north america didnt havee the right stuff to confirm that so they are waiting on my repsonse.

I am confident it will be ok thou. I am just bringing it up becuase like you I only do seperates, and Rotel is great. Once the HDMI video issues are fixed its going to be a great processor for HD DVD and BD.

Now a question about your new player

comfirm if you can choose Bitstreem or PCM for each audio format?

i.e.

Dolby Digital: Bitstreem
DTS: Bitstreem
Dolby Digital Plus: PCM
TrueHD: PCM
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post #182 of 13642 Old 12-15-2007, 12:38 PM
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Just canceled my Amazon order. The reason I waited for this player was so that I could decode the new codecs with my new Controller, an Integra 9.8. If it doesn't do it out of the box, then there will be no purchase. Need dto check if the LG BH200 will do what I want.

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post #183 of 13642 Old 12-15-2007, 12:38 PM
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Also picked one up at BB at Curtner Ave in San Jose this morning. They only had one...and it was pulled from the Truck that came in this morning!

They also gave me 12% off when I printed out the coupon below and went back to customer service for the price adjustment. Coupon expires 12/16/07. With the $95 off and $100 give card I had already, I saved quite a bit!

Since I'm a newb and not allowed to post URLs yet, just type in "http://" in front of the email address below to get the coupon. It should apply for Magnolia purchases (magnolia exclusion in the fine print doesn't apply to Samsung).



emailinfo.bestbuy.com/P/v3/CouponWrapper.asp?E=9318%3B526313%3B1219799170%3B1%3B02&R=T1_CPN_50434&A=1007&ci=50434



Quote:
Originally Posted by brywhite View Post

I picked up a UP-5000 at the Best Buy in Santana Row - San Jose/Santa Clara - California. I called the store and the first two people I spoke with didn't know what the UP-5000 was nor could they find it in the computer system. One person mentioned that a few other people had called for the same thing. Finally, I was transferred to an employee who knew what the UP-5000 was and he informed me that they had ONE unit in stock. He offered to hold it for me (for an hour). It appears that each Best Buy was getting one unit with more to follow next week. As a side note the Santana Row store also had one LG BH200 - which was still available.

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post #184 of 13642 Old 12-15-2007, 12:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrHifi View Post

Just canceled my Amazon order. The reason I waited for this player was so that I could decode the new codecs with my new Controller, an Integra 9.8. If it doesn't do it out of the box, then there will be no purchase. Need dto check if the LG BH200 will do what I want.

i think the 200 also has TrueHD limited to 2.0 as well, though i could be wrong.

only thing preventing me from canceling my order is the lack of HD-DVD players out there. I would get the A35 but it has consistent problems playing used discs.

what i want in a HD-DVD player
- bitstream lossless audio
- 1080p/24
- plays rentals

at the moment it seems if i want to play HD-DVD i'll be forced into a 5000 and having to wait and see if a firmware update will make bitsream lossless available.

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post #185 of 13642 Old 12-15-2007, 12:54 PM
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According to it's preliminary manual the BD-UP5000 has TWO bitstream modes!

"Bitstream (reencode)" takes the mixed 7.1 and reencodes it to DTS 96/24 (or straight DTS) depending on another option. If you're in this mode, the receiver should always report DTS multichannel -- maybe even if the disk only has a 2.0 track?

"Bitstream (audiophile)" is the one that's supposed to pass DTHD or DTS HD MA on to the receiver. To test for bitstream of the raw DTHD and DTS HD MA you need to be in this mode.

If there's no DTHD on the disc the player may be routing the 2.0 tracks to the DTHD decoder. I seem to remember Dolby's site mentioning something about that.

DTHD includes a 5.1 downmix IN the bitstream for compatibility, but from what I've read on the Dolby site, there's no 2.0 downmix.

If you're getting a true DTHD bitstream to the receiver, there's no way it would be 2.0 unless that's all there is on the disc. I remember reading that 2.0 is all that's required to say you've got DTHD on disc. 5.1 and 7.1 are "optional". I assumed that was for compatibility with older movies but you never know. This should be easy to verify with another player that is known to decode/pass DTHD properly.

Here's another theory: The player is not extracting the DTHD track from the disc yet -- and is therefore sending the 2.0 track to the DTHD decoder. That could explain why the analog outs are also only 2.0.

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post #186 of 13642 Old 12-15-2007, 01:00 PM
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I am afraid that I am not quite as technically literate as most of you folks, and I have a few basic questions I hope you will answer. I have a Sammy 56 1080P, and a rather old Sony receiver. I am not quite as interested as you in the new audio codecs as I don't have the ability to use them until I get a new receiver. I do not currently have an HD dvd player, and have had this unit on order because I wanted only one player. My current setup has an HDMI connection to the TV, and an optical out from the dvd player to the receiver. I output bitstream from the player through the optical and get DTS and DD 5.1 on the receiver. I use the optical because I route it through an alchemy audio delay device to correct lip sync issues. Will the setup still work with the 5000? I am only interested right now in getting 5 channel audio through the optical connection.

I am more interested in the video, and had hoped that the reon would improve regular dvd's better that the Sammy 941 dvd player I have now. Would appreciate comments on that.

My unit is expected to ship from Abt early this week, and if I want to cancel I have to act quickly, so please help!
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post #187 of 13642 Old 12-15-2007, 01:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kwindrem View Post

According to it's preliminary manual the BD-UP5000 has TWO bitstream modes!

"Bitstream (reencode)" takes the mixed 7.1 and reencodes it to DTS 96/24 (or straight DTS) depending on another option. If you're in this mode, the receiver should always report DTS multichannel -- maybe even if the disk only has a 2.0 track?

"Bitstream (audiophile)" is the one that's supposed to pass DTHD or DTS HD MA on to the receiver. To test for bitstream of the raw DTHD and DTS HD MA you need to be in this mode.

If there's no DTHD on the disc the player may be routing the 2.0 tracks to the DTHD decoder. I seem to remember Dolby's site mentioning something about that.

DTHD includes a 5.1 downmix IN the bitstream for compatibility, but from what I've read on the Dolby site, there's no 2.0 downmix.

If you're getting a true DTHD bitstream to the receiver, there's no way it would be 2.0 unless that's all there is on the disc. I remember reading that 2.0 is all that's required to say you've got DTHD on disc. 5.1 and 7.1 are "optional". I assumed that was for compatibility with older movies but you never know. This should be easy to verify with another player that is known to decode/pass DTHD properly.

Here's another theory: The player is not extracting the DTHD track from the disc yet -- and is therefore sending the 2.0 track to the DTHD decoder. That could explain why the analog outs are also only 2.0.

Those are good ideas. Everyone who is testing Bitstream needs to put down the players settings and the AVRs settings, then tell us what you found.
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post #188 of 13642 Old 12-15-2007, 01:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

So even bitstream via HDMI is broken?

Does anyone know if the LG 200 can do it?

Edit: Never mind, just visited the LG200 thread and that puppy is broken too. The more I read this crap the more I firmly believe it's best to stick with two independent units. My Panny 30 BR works beautifully, loads quickly and hasn't done a thing wrong yet. Same is true of the Toshiba XA2.

Ken,

With your Panny 30 BR and Toshiba XA2, you clearly have the best of both worlds given the current status of the 5000!

I'm going my "separate" way now (XA2 and 1400)!

BTW, I may just go with the A35, as I'm eye-balling the soon-to-be-released Oppo 983 for my Standard definition viewing. My Dual Format anxieties are now over!
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post #189 of 13642 Old 12-15-2007, 01:09 PM
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Ok, the player has 3 "digital" setups

PCM, Bitstream (reencode), bitstream (audiophile)

The BR movie of 300 has a 5.1 THD track and a 5.1 PCM track.

Throughout all of these tests, NEVER did the Dolby THD logo show up on the RX-V3800.

On all 3 HDMI settings 2 channels came out when Dolby THD was chosen.

On all 3 HDMI settings 5.1 channels came out when PCM was chosen.

The only weird thing was when I set the HDMI to bitstream (re-encode) the receiver showed DTS. (odd)


I am attempting to find a DTS HDMA disc.....
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post #190 of 13642 Old 12-15-2007, 01:09 PM
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I called a few stores in the DFW area and only one actually had it in their computer....they didnt have any and said it was on backorder. Oh well, ill check next week.

So, does TrueHD work via PCM over hdmi?

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post #191 of 13642 Old 12-15-2007, 01:13 PM
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Got the Best Buy in Sunnyvale, CA to sell me there demo unit that hadn't been opened yet (only one they had). They also accepted the 10% off coupon that I had.

I played around with the HD DVD Transformers, Star Wars Episode II DVD, and a burned DVD+R DL movie (played fine btw). I will post more later when I have time to use the player more. Need to run out at the moment.

I am connecting it to a Denon AVR-4308 via HDMI 1.3a cable to a Sony KDS-60A3000.
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post #192 of 13642 Old 12-15-2007, 01:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodshed View Post

Ok, the player has 3 "digital" setups

PCM, Bitstream (reencode), bitstream (audiophile)

The BR movie of 300 has a 5.1 THD track and a 5.1 PCM track.

Throughout all of these tests, NEVER did the Dolby THD logo show up on the RX-V3800.

On all 3 HDMI settings 2 channels came out when Dolby THD was chosen.

On all 3 HDMI settings 5.1 channels came out when PCM was chosen.

The only weird thing was when I set the HDMI to bitstream (re-encode) the receiver showed DTS. (odd)


I am attempting to find a DTS HDMA disc.....

x-men the last stand is a 6.1 dts-hdma disc
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post #193 of 13642 Old 12-15-2007, 01:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

So even bitstream via HDMI is broken?

The more I read this crap the more I firmly believe it's best to stick with two independent units. My Panny 30 BR works beautifully, loads quickly and hasn't done a thing wrong yet. Same is true of the Toshiba XA2.

I was also looking at the BD5000 but after the bugs appeared on the prototypes which I had hoped would be solved by roll out time it doesn't appeared to have happened. I am also a BD30 and XE1 (XA2) owner and it looks like I will be sticking with those for some time to come.

Well until Denon releases a Universal player and shows them how it is done Albeit at a high cost but I love Denon stuff
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post #194 of 13642 Old 12-15-2007, 02:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodshed View Post

Ok, the player has 3 "digital" setups

PCM, Bitstream (reencode), bitstream (audiophile)

The BR movie of 300 has a 5.1 THD track and a 5.1 PCM track.

Throughout all of these tests, NEVER did the Dolby THD logo show up on the RX-V3800.

On all 3 HDMI settings 2 channels came out when Dolby THD was chosen.

On all 3 HDMI settings 5.1 channels came out when PCM was chosen.

The only weird thing was when I set the HDMI to bitstream (re-encode) the receiver showed DTS. (odd)


I am attempting to find a DTS HDMA disc.....

Woodshed, if the player is doing what it should, you should unquestionably see the Dolby True HD light up on the 3800 in big letters. It does that on mine with my dedicated BR & HD DVD players. If you don't see it, it's not your receiver.
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post #195 of 13642 Old 12-15-2007, 02:22 PM
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I sent an email to try and cancel my purchase order of this BD-UP5000 player from BestBuyBusiness. They are not open on weekends? Sheesh. My order still sitting there from two days ago saying "In Process", so it as not shipped yet. Hope I can get them to cancel it in time so I don't have to return the crippled thing. Sheesh. depressed.
Like some others, I am now considering getting separate units for BD and HD-DVD. The Panasonic BD30 and one of the Toshiba's A35 or XA2 if I can find a new one. What a fiasco.

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post #196 of 13642 Old 12-15-2007, 02:26 PM
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Will the Panasonic BD30 do 1080p/24 output?
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post #197 of 13642 Old 12-15-2007, 02:34 PM
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So this unit WILL NOT pass Dolby TD via HDMI or Bitstream? This is totally confirmed?

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post #198 of 13642 Old 12-15-2007, 02:49 PM
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Quote:
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Will the Panasonic BD30 do 1080p/24 output?

Yes. Likely my next A/V purchase. It rec'd a great review from ultimateavmag.com. Check it out.
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post #199 of 13642 Old 12-15-2007, 03:05 PM
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Sounds like its not properly bitstreaming for some reason, could be a handshake issue just like the A35 and XA2 where they have a tendency to revert back to outputing PCM all the time even with bitstream selected unless you boot the player last after the receiver and TV. Or its just really flawed and as someone said can't bitstream TrueHD and therefore no matter what setting its on its decoding the crappy 2ch version to PCM.

Woodshed...Try booting your different components in different orders, the DTS you are seeing is what is supposed to happen with that particular mode but you want the audiophile mode to keep trying with further testing as if it does work it would work in that mode only. Also any Fox bluray will have DTSHDMA, pick up Kigdom of Heaven as its an amazing movie and amazing PQ and AQ.

Overall, this player is starting out as a total dud, just doesn't make any sense to me because the 1400 has been doing proper 5.1 decoding and proper bitstreaming so why can't they just use the same method??? **** these companies, Toshiba and Samsung are both horrible companies, there track records with HDM are terrible.

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post #200 of 13642 Old 12-15-2007, 03:08 PM
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Seems to me a lot of over reaction to a player that has not yet had a complete review by any owners, only a smattering of early information.

Not to mention that nearly all of the new players of any type or kind have issues that need to be addressed in firmware. Let's face it, there IS no perfect HD disc player yet single or dual and probably will not be until the formats are more mature.

I am sticking with my purchase, due next week. I also have the new Blu-Ray version of Blade Runner coming next week about the same time as the player - looking forward trying it and the 5000.

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post #201 of 13642 Old 12-15-2007, 03:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CCDAstro View Post

Seems to me a lot of over reaction to a player that has not yet had a complete review by any owners, only a smattering of early information.

Not to mention that nearly all of the new players of any stripe have issues that need to be addressed in firmware.

If that is what you expect out of a 800$ player than it will be the downfall of HDM. No normal person will ever put up with this crap and there is no reason that they should not have bitstreaming working out of the box, they already have it on one of there other crappy players.

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post #202 of 13642 Old 12-15-2007, 03:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by valkyrie View Post

How did you manage that price?! Did you just call them?


I have one on order with Tweeter for $736. Its been on order for a few weeks. I called ABT 1-888-228-5800 and confirmed with a salesman that $670 is doable. I'm tempted to cancel my Tweeter order, but probably won't.
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post #203 of 13642 Old 12-15-2007, 03:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acidrock69 View Post

i think the 200 also has TrueHD limited to 2.0 as well, though i could be wrong.

only thing preventing me from canceling my order is the lack of HD-DVD players out there. I would get the A35 but it has consistent problems playing used discs.

what i want in a HD-DVD player
- bitstream lossless audio
- 1080p/24
- plays rentals

at the moment it seems if i want to play HD-DVD i'll be forced into a 5000 and having to wait and see if a firmware update will make bitsream lossless available.

The XA2 does all of that and then some...

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post #204 of 13642 Old 12-15-2007, 03:16 PM
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Sounds like this player has 'issues'. Looks like BBFB hasn't shipped my order yet so I think I am canning that Mon morning and also canning the pre-order with 1 call.
I think I am gonna go the BD30/A35 route. I don't wanna drop $800 on a player that has problems.
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post #205 of 13642 Old 12-15-2007, 03:21 PM
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Quote:


f that is what you expect out of a 800$ player than it will be the downfall of HDM. No normal person will ever put up with this crap and there is no reason that they should not have bitstreaming working out of the box,

Huh? How does my opinion cause the downfall of anything? As far as bitstreaming - NORMAL people (also called the general public) - do not even know what bitstreaming IS, much less have the equipment to use it. It is acceptance by the public, and nothing we think here, that determines the success or failure of HDM. The average Joe is not even going to touch a player at this price but will buy $99 closeouts at WalMart.

What I expect from a player and what I would like to expect from a player are not the same thing. One represents the ideal (seldom seen) and the other reality. I think we need to live with reality. The reality is that, as I said above, it is WAY too early to condemn this player. Ask me again in two weeks when I have had one for a while, or better yet, in a couple months after the first firmware update - then I will give you a real opinion based on some real experience.

Bottom line, if you buy this player you are an early adopter and early adopters do pay a price, both dollars and in risk and in hassle. If one can't take that heat (technically or financially), then other, more conservative options are in order.

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post #206 of 13642 Old 12-15-2007, 03:27 PM
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No disrespect to any of the owners of the UP5000 who have posted here so far, but I will wait until a professional review of this unit is released before I make my final decision. I'm sure we'll be seeing some reviews trickling out within the next week or so. Saying that, it certainly doesn't look promising at this point. What really stinks for me and I'm sure others is that a Crave preview in September announced that this unit would "do" all the latest audio codecs internally!

So far, no good
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post #207 of 13642 Old 12-15-2007, 03:31 PM
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I want to believe. As long as we see F/W that fixes TrueHD and DTS-MA I'll be really happy. Most other HiDef players had the same issues/FW fixes and this is not just another 3rd gen player - it's one of the first to play both formats.
I'm happy that PCM and DD+ are already outputting to all channels thru analogs.
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post #208 of 13642 Old 12-15-2007, 03:31 PM
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Although it may not help get TrueHD out over all 5 channels, I can tell you that it must be set to BITSREAM AUDIOPHILE. As pointed out this will neglect the audio track for PiP but it is the only ws the get the codecs you want (this is the same setting required by the Panasonic BD30 as well which also limits the PiP audio). The other requirment is a reciever that can handle it.

May not work now but IF there ever is a firmware update, this is what will have to be done. Looks like someone above tried it but it still didn't work with the 5000.
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post #209 of 13642 Old 12-15-2007, 03:41 PM
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Who is going to be the first to crack the case and tell us what the RAM module is???

Waiting for my 2012 upgrade...
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post #210 of 13642 Old 12-15-2007, 03:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haggisbingo View Post

I want to believe. As long as we see F/W that fixes TrueHD and DTS-MA I'll be really happy. Most other HiDef players had the same issues/FW fixes and this is not just another 3rd gen player - it's one of the first to play both formats.
I'm really happy that PCM and DD+ is already outputting to all channels thru analogs.

People have to make decisions as to whether they buy this and keep their fingers crossed that a FW fix will make this unit perform how it should have in the first place.
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