Warner Blu Ray Only--End of Combo Players? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 123 Old 01-04-2008, 03:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Now that Warner has gone Blu Ray only, the demise of HD DVD has begun.
Does this mean we won't be seeing new combo players going forward?
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post #2 of 123 Old 01-04-2008, 03:53 PM
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Probably not, if they fix the Samsung 5000 I will buy it.
For the cost I can not see any manufacture creating a new dual format player.
The Sammy is the only choice for me, it is not cheap but anything that will hopefully decode dts ma through the analog outs I will probably purchase but I am still waiting for the firmware to come out before I put out $800
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post #3 of 123 Old 01-04-2008, 03:54 PM
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Excellent question!! I doubt there's going to be an ongoing market for HD-DVD, but it does seem unfair that the people who invested in it won't have new players going forward.

Someone made the point in another thread that at least in computers, combo drives will probably be around.

Maybe we'll get some clues next week at C.E.S.
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post #4 of 123 Old 01-04-2008, 04:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k1davis View Post

Excellent question!! I doubt there's going to be an ongoing market for HD-DVD, but it does seem unfair that the people who invested in it won't have new players going forward.

Someone made the point in another thread that at least in computers, combo drives will probably be around.

Maybe we'll get some clues next week at C.E.S.

Actually i think they will not, there will most likely be more DF players now sold. I actually said to my fiancé last week, that we were going to wait about 6 months and if nothing spectacular has happened, we'd go format neutral, in this case with a DF-player. We'll see what the next few weeks brings...
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post #5 of 123 Old 01-04-2008, 04:00 PM
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This is a step in the right direction, but I strongly disagree that this is the end of the format war. HD-DVD will be around for a while longer, even with only two studios (though who knows what other announcements will come at CES). This news will hurt the standalone HD-DVD player market much worse than the DF player market. Since there is so much HD-DVD media out there already and much more likely to come in 2008 and possibly beyond, there will definitely still be a market for reasonably priced DF players.
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post #6 of 123 Old 01-04-2008, 04:01 PM
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The point of combo players was to keep the consumer from being on the losing side.

IMO, I think they will get more popular.
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post #7 of 123 Old 01-04-2008, 04:03 PM
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I think they'll get more popular for this year as HD DVD owners transition to neutral without sacrificing their sisable investment in movies, but I'd expect no more than another generation of model announcements (most likely from LG).

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post #8 of 123 Old 01-04-2008, 04:03 PM
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It is a good question and ultimately the answer is probably "Yes", since HD-DVD is probably on it's last legs. I would predict that Microsoft and Toshiba will throw in the towel by the end of 2008.

OTOH, I am not all that unhappy that I bought a Sammy 5000. Samsung, being in the Blu-Ray camp primarily, should continue to support the Blu-Ray side of the player.

The folks I really feel sorry for are the poor suckers that bought HD-DVD players and discs. In a couple of years their players will be good for playing the HD-DVD discs they bought and for holding the door open while they carry their new Blu-Ray player into the house.

It also makes me happy that the only purchased discs I have are Blu-Ray...

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post #9 of 123 Old 01-04-2008, 04:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CCDAstro View Post

It also makes me happy that the only purchased discs I have are Blu-Ray...

Why would that matter? I've got no problem continuing to buy HD-DVD's. It's not like they're gonna stop playing on my 5000 at the end of the year, or look/sound any worse than Blu-Ray versions of the same movies (aside from the occasional audio codec difference, which is in HD-DVD's advantage as often as it isn't).
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post #10 of 123 Old 01-04-2008, 04:12 PM
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Why would that matter? I've got no problem continuing to buy HD-DVD's.

Players don't last forever. Once HD-DVD is truly dead and gone, only old players will work with one's HD-DVD purchases. At that point, the only way to replace a dead HD-DVD (or combo) player will be eBay. Clearly this may take quite a few years but then I still have and play standard DVDs that are many years old.

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post #11 of 123 Old 01-04-2008, 04:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CCDAstro View Post

Players don't last forever. Once HD-DVD is truly dead and gone, only old players will work with one's HD-DVD purchases. At that point, the only way to replace an HD-DVD player will be eBay. Clearly this may take quite a few years but then I still have and play DVDs that are many years old.

By the time I need to replace my player, I very much doubt Blu-Ray will be around either.

For the record, I still have a Laserdisc player as well.
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post #12 of 123 Old 01-04-2008, 04:15 PM
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I am in agreement with those that think that combo players will continue to make their way to market.

Keep in mind, there are still two major studios who are HD-DVD supporters and until the fat lady sings, it ain't over. I'm not saying HD-DVD has much of a chance in the long run, but I think it will take longer than many think for this format war to become a footnote in the history of home electronics.

If anything, I predict the introduction of more "Blu-ray" players, that have the capability of playing HD DVD (similar to the way that LG and Samsung has marketed their players as "Blu-ray" first with HD DVD playback).

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post #13 of 123 Old 01-04-2008, 04:19 PM
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By the time I need to replace my player, I very much doubt Blu-Ray will be around either.

You may well be right, time will tell. If the bandwidth can be obtained (hard but not impossible), some sort of downloadable system would be the likely successor.

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post #14 of 123 Old 01-04-2008, 04:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CCDAstro View Post

You may well be right, time will tell. If the bandwidth can be obtained (hard but not impossible), some sort of downloadable system would be the likely successor.

I would bet on another recordable media format before we get to downloadable reference-quality HD content. A cheap 500 GB+ DVD format for example. That might only be a year or two away. I think the bandwidth to put the same content online is at least 8-10 years away.
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post #15 of 123 Old 01-04-2008, 04:46 PM
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Oh, at long last. I can finally think about taking the padlock off the wallet and buying a Blu-Ray player. It wasn't easy to sit out the format war up to now, but I'm really glad I did.

Market prediction: Toshiba will fire-sale their HD-DVD players as early as possible to cut their losses. Meanwhile, dedicated Blu-Ray players (and the PS3) may well go up in price -- although that phenomenon could be offset somewhat with the inevitable advent of off-brand Chinese BD players. Combo players are going to plummet, too, probably landing somewhere slightly above the cheapest BD-only players.

Don't forget the computer side of this, either: Apple announced their exclusive hardware support for BD today as well. Now it's time for Toshiba to to get with the program or risk becoming an irrelevant laughingstock in the tech world. Sony, once they got over their disappointment of losing the videotape war, managed to produce some of the most popular and best-performing VHS players. No reason Toshiba can't do the same with BD.
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post #16 of 123 Old 01-04-2008, 05:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ugk View Post

The point of combo players was to keep the consumer from being on the losing side.

IMO, I think they will get more popular.

If not, then they will become a nice collector's item.

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post #17 of 123 Old 01-04-2008, 05:43 PM
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Wouldn't it behoove Samsung to fix the audio in their 5000 now more than ever? There are going to be people who want to have a player that will continue to play their sizable HD-DVD collection and their new Blu-Ray discs (at least if their HD-DVD player dies)..

Of course, they could also be in my position where the wife wants one player only.

Waiting for my 2012 upgrade...
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post #18 of 123 Old 01-04-2008, 05:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nick_rh View Post

Oh, at long last. I can finally think about taking the padlock off the wallet and buying a Blu-Ray player. It wasn't easy to sit out the format war up to now, but I'm really glad I did.

Market prediction: Toshiba will fire-sale their HD-DVD players as early as possible to cut their losses. Meanwhile, dedicated Blu-Ray players (and the PS3) may well go up in price -- although that phenomenon could be offset somewhat with the inevitable advent of off-brand Chinese BD players. Combo players are going to plummet, too, probably landing somewhere slightly above the cheapest BD-only players.

Don't forget the computer side of this, either: Apple announced their exclusive hardware support for BD today as well. Now it's time for Toshiba to to get with the program or risk becoming an irrelevant laughingstock in the tech world. Sony, once they got over their disappointment of losing the videotape war, managed to produce some of the most popular and best-performing VHS players. No reason Toshiba can't do the same with BD.

Toshiba could take the lead in the DF format player market ....
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post #19 of 123 Old 01-04-2008, 05:55 PM
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I'm guessing most wives don't notice or care about the difference.
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post #20 of 123 Old 01-04-2008, 06:01 PM
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LOL, wonder what Michael Bay's saying now .
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post #21 of 123 Old 01-04-2008, 06:07 PM
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Originally Posted by rantanamo View Post

I'm guessing most wives don't notice or care about the difference.

yep. My wife thinks upconverted SDDVD looks the same and HDM.

However, my wife does notice more than one player. She wanted one player to play our movies.

Waiting for my 2012 upgrade...
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post #22 of 123 Old 01-04-2008, 06:22 PM
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I'm hoping Toshiba starts production on BD players soon and puts HD DVD support in most / all of them. (i.e. Much as how Sony builds SACD support into many of their players.)
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post #23 of 123 Old 01-04-2008, 06:23 PM
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LOL, wonder what Michael Bay's saying now .

But Transformers is still a Paramount property . I guess he'll have to a wait a little longer to get his way with that title.
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post #24 of 123 Old 01-04-2008, 06:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sheldonison View Post

Toshiba could take the lead in the DF format player market ....

That's probably the smartest thing they could do at this point; plus it'd be nice if they didn't leave the consumers who supported them out in the cold by continuing to provide a means of them to play HD DVDs.

I wouldn't be surprised if HD DVD lived on as the optical format for the heir to the xBox 360; for Microsoft, it'd sure beat 1.) switching to your competitors format in favor of their own and 2.) putting money in their number one competitor's pocket by supporting their format.

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post #25 of 123 Old 01-04-2008, 07:42 PM
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The only thing that would kill dual-format is for the BDA to take some of those $100 million bills they've been tossing around and replace everyone's HD DVD discs with blu-ray discs.

After all, they WANT people to move to HD and there is enough consumer fear without such a public screwing of early adopters.

Even if they had to replace 5 million discs at $20 per, that would only be $100 million across the industry. With the bucks they've thrown around today (keeping Fox and getting Warner), it's a drop in the bucket.
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post #26 of 123 Old 01-04-2008, 07:43 PM
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I think the Warner announcement will make these players even more valuable. That way they can charge a premium for it cause it does both formats.
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post #27 of 123 Old 01-04-2008, 07:50 PM
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I hope Toshiba will make a dual format player. I know my refurbed A1 will not last forever and I only own 10 hd dvds but I really like the internet features and blu ray will probably not have that for several years now that this war is coming to an end. I won't buy blu unless it is a dual format with 1.1 specs at least. The Samsung 5000 looks to be that player but the audio codecs through the analog outs is not fixed yet so I can't spend that kinda of money on that and my toshiba does not have any problems with that. Microsoft is in this for money they will eventually have a blu ray add on for there 360 you can count on that.
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post #28 of 123 Old 01-04-2008, 07:59 PM
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As long as up-convert DVD players are being sold, neither HD DVD nor Blu-ray can compete. High definition media will never take off.

Joe Consumer would rather pay $99 or less for an up-convert DVD player that advertises 1080p output with standard definition DVDs that are available EVERYWHERE and are much cheaper that HD discs.
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post #29 of 123 Old 01-04-2008, 08:00 PM
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The HD-dvd and blu-ray format are almost exactly the same.

Eventually a blu-ray player with the ability to play a HD-dvd will be like a dvd-player that can play CDs.

Your HD-DVDs will always be valuable as Blu-ray.

This move by Warner actually signifies the possible failure of the blu-ray format. It has not taken off, and if it does not gain some much larger sales, downloading HD media will become more popular (which it is doing well now). Warner knows if they didnt do this, then nobody wins.

Personally this is going to be bad for the consumer, unless Denon starts making dual players. Toshiba was decent, but HD-Discs will suffer forever if I have to rely on samsung for players!!!!

*philips would be smart to make a dual player----it has demonstrated solid players.

Sony was so-so, but they can charge whatever they feel like for their stuff.
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post #30 of 123 Old 01-04-2008, 08:20 PM
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The only market now for dual format players will be existing HD DVD owners. Since hi def players as a whole are such a niche market, I don't see that as a very big market -- certainly not big enough to lure top tier companies. I can see low budget players similar to the HD-A1/A2/A3 or Venturer that offer limited features and cheaper specs. Of course, that is essentially what we have now in the LH-200 and UP500 unless LG and Samsung are able to give us more features via firmware updates that are less likely to come now. Either that, or dual players might become seriously more expensive.
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